scratchyrice Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 LOL, what a tool, you should educate yourself before making a fool of yourself, like the other guy said, your info is years out of date, Bloom DOES NOT take up much resources today, unless your PC is ancient, it is a very minor effect. So many people go on about stuff they have no clue about, you're one of them. Educate yourself a bit, google doesn't count, lol. Thank you! At least not everyone on this forums is a moron lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disposeablehero Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 JESUS CHRIST !!! WHO THE F CARES ??? GET OVER IT !!!... BLOOM uses up ALOT of resources on computers... GOOGLE it !!!... Also, I never created a thread about Bloom... OPENGL KILLS Direct3D !!!... OpenGL is far supirior than D3D... BLOOM BLOWS... Necroviolator, you need to do a lot of reading-up on what does or doesn't affect performance on any one PC. Applying a bloom effect in a game running on a 4-year-old PC will have vastly different results to that seen on a much newer machine. There is no cut-and-dried answer to this. Stop shouting and do some research yourself. Your info is years out of date. I was quoting people who were making games on a home page... Also, Im sorry for shouting... And YES Bloom DOES eat up resources YOU read up... I can prove OpenGL is alot better than D3D and Bloom does use up resources... Although, cant remember how to show FPS on Oblivion...Uggg... Oblivion is one game 2 years old, what does that prove???? Bloom in Oblivion was the Less demandin then HDR, thanks for showing you have no clue. Unless your rig is on the minimal requirements and old, disabling bloom will do almost nothing. How can u prove Opengl is better? There is a reason 99% of games use D3D instead. More BS. There are people in this very thread that had ZERO performance boost when disabling bloom, that alone is proof you're talking out of your arse. Blookm DOES NOT eat resources at all, it is a minor drain on resources, post processing, shadows are all vastly more demanding, do some research or STFU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disposeablehero Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 OpenGL and Direct X both have their advantages and disadvantages. OpenGL is open source and cross platform. Direct X supports all sorts of amazing effects at amazing speeds, but is only for windows. As for the bloom, NecroViolator for one obviously has absolubetly no idea whatsoever what hes talking about. It takes a lot more than a google search to fully understand it . Yes bloom takes up resources, but not that much. FYI, GTAIV uses Deferred shading, and so both the bloom effect would have been built into the deferred shader. This means that even if you do disable bloom, since there is already a post-process effect running (Deferred shading), it will do little to no good in terms of increasing performance. It would be a different story, as it is in oblivion, where the only post-process effect going on is hdr/bloom, so it has its own screen space quad, and so if disabled, that screen space quad can be deleted, actually increasing performance. Disabling bloom in GTAIV, has the same kind of effect as disabling textures on all the mesh's in the game, and keeping the normal mapping effect rendering. It would make little to no difference. But NecroViolator, Simply changing the brightness values of the bloom, just changes the brightness parameter put into the shader at game start-up, The whole shader is still rendering, so it will do f*ck all. He is an idiot obviously, lol. Good post, sums it up nicely. You see so many people going off about technology, graphics and they think they know what they are talking about, yet they have no clue. Seems this is a very common thing on the net today, everyone thinks they are an expert in the Internets, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanShotFirst Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 He may be right, he may be wrong, but he's doing his best to investigate and tweak files to improve performance on a game that most people on these forums are having serious issues with. No need to flame someone that is doing their best to help the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NecroViolator Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 (edited) Just played a little Oblivion...Brings back memories... Damn crashes also... DirectX renderer was only supposed to be a fallback solution, but many people use it without knowing of its limitations - even though it has less features and works worse then OpenGL in majority of cases! Just got done playing around and cant get Oblivion to stay on long enough... As you see is that the majority playing the game might have older cards... Im playing on a Dual Xeon/Quad Core and cant get any better than Lowest... http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Necr.../SS2_OPENGL.gif Edited December 7, 2008 by NecroViolator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dual Weilder Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 if i turn off bloom wont it make the game look bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NecroViolator Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 if i turn off bloom wont it make the game look bad? Well, I did post some Pics a few posts back... But it will remove all the "glossy" looking GFX ingame... I mean the caramel sorta speaking... At the moment there are a few people looking into the file(s) with me...Trying to get the game running for everyone... I guess the best thing to do is wait for Microsoft to release the Patch and we can see what it does to help us... I havent played all day, just editing files...LOL... I could take a newer Pic during day time so you can see the trees ... They look more cleaner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scratchyrice Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 You see so many people going off about technology, graphics and they think they know what they are talking about, yet they have no clue. Seems this is a very common thing on the net today, everyone thinks they are an expert in the Internets, lol. Lol yes it is annoying, Its just like the morons on you tube who are like "Xbox360 is better than pc" or "Phenoms are better than core duo's". They are just high school kids, who are taking GNVQ ICT, and know a little bit about office, and so think they know the deep technological things about 3D Application and games development. DirectX renderer was only supposed to be a fallback solution Yes back in the windows 3.11 days. Now DirectX and OpenGL are two completely diffrent apis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dual Weilder Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 if i turn off bloom wont it make the game look bad? Well, I did post some Pics a few posts back... But it will remove all the "glossy" looking GFX ingame... I mean the caramel sorta speaking... At the moment there are a few people looking into the file(s) with me...Trying to get the game running for everyone... I guess the best thing to do is wait for Microsoft to release the Patch and we can see what it does to help us... I havent played all day, just editing files...LOL... I could take a newer Pic during day time so you can see the trees ... They look more cleaner... thank you man. keep up the good editing and plz post some more screenies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disposeablehero Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Just played a little Oblivion...Brings back memories... Damn crashes also... DirectX renderer was only supposed to be a fallback solution, but many people use it without knowing of its limitations - even though it has less features and works worse then OpenGL in majority of cases! Just got done playing around and cant get Oblivion to stay on long enough... As you see is that the majority playing the game might have older cards... Im playing on a Dual Xeon/Quad Core and cant get any better than Lowest... http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Necr.../SS2_OPENGL.gif Blatantly false and BS really, you are saying no developers know what they are doing and use DX without knowing its limitations? What features does Opengl have that D3d does not? There is a reason Dx is more widely used, and it isn't because devs don't know what they are doing like you are saying, lol. Post proof that Dx was supposed to be only a fallback, please, you keep talking out of your arse, you have no clue. DX is easier to develop for, that is one reason most devs use it. You are talking about the early 90s doofus, things are drastically different now, time to educate yourself and get with the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scratchyrice Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Well, I did post some Pics a few posts back...But it will remove all the "glossy" looking GFX ingame... I mean the caramel sorta speaking... At the moment there are a few people looking into the file(s) with me...Trying to get the game running for everyone... I guess the best thing to do is wait for Microsoft to release the Patch and we can see what it does to help us... I havent played all day, just editing files...LOL... I could take a newer Pic during day time so you can see the trees ... They look more cleaner... Do i have to go over this again. Can you please implant into your and your mates brains, that the only way anyone would get a performance increace from disabling GPU intensive effects is: 1. Their processor is a quad core, thus excluding the CPU bottleneck, so disabling gpu effects will do something. 2. You dont just fiddle around with bloom brighness, or normal map depth, as this will not do a thing. You need to find something which actualy turns off the "bloom" post-process effect, which includes stopping the blur, depth and colour render's. Now of course you may go and change random values, but ive looked into the .dat files, and i cant see anything like "BloomEnabled = true", so its probably a waste of time tbh. The patch should be out tommorow, so wait for that, and then we can see what else can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddmattH Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Well that's just great. We can't turn off bloom for online play. Man I hope they at least make it into a graphics option for the patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NecroViolator Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 (edited) Well, I did post some Pics a few posts back...But it will remove all the "glossy" looking GFX ingame... I mean the caramel sorta speaking... At the moment there are a few people looking into the file(s) with me...Trying to get the game running for everyone... I guess the best thing to do is wait for Microsoft to release the Patch and we can see what it does to help us... I havent played all day, just editing files...LOL... I could take a newer Pic during day time so you can see the trees ... They look more cleaner... Do i have to go over this again. Can you please implant into your and your mates brains, that the only way anyone would get a performance increace from disabling GPU intensive effects is: 1. Their processor is a quad core, thus excluding the CPU bottleneck, so disabling gpu effects will do something. 2. You dont just fiddle around with bloom brighness, or normal map depth, as this will not do a thing. You need to find something which actualy turns off the "bloom" post-process effect, which includes stopping the blur, depth and colour render's. Now of course you may go and change random values, but ive looked into the .dat files, and i cant see anything like "BloomEnabled = true", so its probably a waste of time tbh. The patch should be out tommorow, so wait for that, and then we can see what else can be done. Man its a shame they just didnt include these options... I really dont think the patch will include them though, but God I hope... But heres a Pic of trees and cops after me...LOL... http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Necr...GTAIV_Trees.jpg Edited December 7, 2008 by NecroViolator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scratchyrice Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Just played a little Oblivion...Brings back memories... Damn crashes also... DirectX renderer was only supposed to be a fallback solution, but many people use it without knowing of its limitations - even though it has less features and works worse then OpenGL in majority of cases! Just got done playing around and cant get Oblivion to stay on long enough... As you see is that the majority playing the game might have older cards... Im playing on a Dual Xeon/Quad Core and cant get any better than Lowest... http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Necr.../SS2_OPENGL.gif What a load of f*cking crap. For starters, serious sam 2 was developed with OpenGL in mind, for portability to other platforms such as mac and Linux. Of course that particular game will run faster. Its like doing a benchmark with crysis running using opengl, its totally unfair. I have used both OpenGL, and DirectX, and the reasons that DirectX are more ofternly used is because its simply more advanced. Now dont get me wrong i am no fan of Microsoft, but Direct X is so much more efficient because it is 100% specificly made to run on the windows platform, whereas OpenGL has a lot of optimizations taken out so it will run on other platforms, and so it runs alot faster on windows. Its like trying to write a game using the ps3 graphical interface, which has been made compatable with pcs, It will never be as efficient as it can be on the ps3, which is what i presume rockstar have done here with GTAIV, thus the crappy framerates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disposeablehero Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Just played a little Oblivion...Brings back memories... Damn crashes also... DirectX renderer was only supposed to be a fallback solution, but many people use it without knowing of its limitations - even though it has less features and works worse then OpenGL in majority of cases! Just got done playing around and cant get Oblivion to stay on long enough... As you see is that the majority playing the game might have older cards... Im playing on a Dual Xeon/Quad Core and cant get any better than Lowest... http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Necr.../SS2_OPENGL.gif What a load of f*cking crap. For starters, serious sam 2 was developed with OpenGL in mind, for portability to other platforms such as mac and Linux. Of course that particular game will run faster. Its like doing a benchmark with crysis running using opengl, its totally unfair. I have used both OpenGL, and DirectX, and the reasons that DirectX are more ofternly used is because its simply more advanced. Now dont get me wrong i am no fan of Microsoft, but Direct X is so much more efficient because it is 100% specificly made to run on the windows platform, whereas OpenGL has a lot of optimizations taken out so it will run on other platforms, and so it runs alot faster on windows. Its like trying to write a game using the ps3 graphical interface, which has been made compatable with pcs, It will never be as efficient as it can be on the ps3, which is what i presume rockstar have done here with GTAIV, thus the crappy framerates. They guy has no clue what he is talking about, he just spews off random crap and some people fall for it, lol. Everyone is an expert on the net, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scratchyrice Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Lol indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NecroViolator Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 (edited) Well, at least I Google the INFO while you two sit and call me names... Also you two have NOT said anything to help anyone here but flame me... Croteam, Epic, ID Software, Adobe, 3DMax and many others use OpenGL... Its a preferred API for professionals... Also, OpenGL was NOT supported in SS2...It was Direct3D, but they put in OpenGL for backup... Also IF you two masters of GFX cant/wont try help besides calling me names then please stop posting... Im trying to help others if I can... Right or wrong... Anyway, how many of you tried the " commandline.txt " in the root dir ??? I put in -norestrictions -novblank -noprecache... Got a little more FPS, dont know how it works for everyone... Edited December 7, 2008 by NecroViolator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjl Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 I'd rather get no help than wrong help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharmingCharlie Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 I wish you guys would get BACK ON TOPIC this topic is to discuss the patch. If you want to talk about bloom then use the bloom topic which already exists here :- http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=380844 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disposeablehero Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Well, at least I Google the INFO while you two sit and call me names...Also you two have NOT said anything to help anyone here but flame me... Croteam, Epic, ID Software, Adobe, 3DMax and many others use OpenGL... Its a preferred API for professionals... Also, OpenGL was NOT supported in SS2...It was Direct3D, but they put in OpenGL for backup... Also IF you two masters of GFX cant/wont try help besides calling me names then please stop posting... Im trying to help others if I can... Right or wrong... Anyway, how many of you tried the " commandline.txt " in the root dir ??? I put in -norestrictions -novblank -noprecache... Got a little more FPS, dont know how it works for everyone... What seperates us from you is we don't need to use google, we already know this stuff. Also, using google doesn't mean much, not everything you read is true. We are talking games, so why bring up Adobe, 3dmax and others? LOL, irrelevant, none of them even make games. EPIC use DX10, sorry, wrong again, UT3 and GEars are both dx games that support dx10. ID use it, good for them, no one said no one uses it, but DX10 is widely used, opengl is not for game development, 99% of games out there are dx for a reason. Id using opengl did not make their games any better, in fact, the doom 3 engine was one of the biggest dissappointments from ID ever. How is it preferred? Please explain? You listing 2-3 companies that use it does not make it the preferred. Post some proof to back up your BS claims or stop psoting BS nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyc2u Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Does anyone else have the game running ok and is a bit scared of this rush patch? Ill be so bummed if this patch pulls a switcheroo. All those who cant play it now will be able to, and everyone that use to be able to play it cant. I think ill stick with the low FPS for now and wait until i finish it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgen Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 I'd rather get no help than wrong help. Summed-up nicely. NecroViolator, you do seem to want to help people, which is admirable, but I'm afraid your source material is at best inaccurate, and at worst downright wrong. The reason 3D rendering apps like 3DS & Lightwave (which I am more than familiar with) use OpenGL is due to its cross-platform compatibility, as has already been explained, and also is far easier to implement as a "plug-in" app within a desktop-application environment; i.e. as the rendering interface. It lacks many visual features that we take for granted these days in games, instead having to be "educated" by the programmer. This versatility is great, but comes at a cost; time and effort, which in corporate terms, means money. Hence; D3D is the 3D programming api of choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disposeablehero Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 I'd rather get no help than wrong help. Summed-up nicely. NecroViolator, you do seem to want to help people, which is admirable, but I'm afraid your source material is at best inaccurate, and at worst downright wrong. The reason 3D rendering apps like 3DS & Lightwave (which I am more than familiar with) use OpenGL is due to its cross-platform compatibility, as has already been explained, and also is far easier to implement as a "plug-in" app within a desktop-application environment; i.e. as the rendering interface. It lacks many visual features that we take for granted these days in games, instead having to be "educated" by the programmer. This versatility is great, but comes at a cost; time and effort, which in corporate terms, means money. Hence; D3D is the 3D programming api of choice. Yep, already been explained to him but he has comprehension issues, lol. Good post. He thinks because he can use google he is an expert programmer now, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorgDroneX Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 ok im well confused, i dl that magic.bat file and ran it, its created 2 of every file by the look of it. so how do i edit the files and what file contains this bloom thing???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zharay Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Im not endorsing issues with this, but seeing as no ones mirroring other than rapid share (thanks for that mate) Heres another mirror: http://www.zshare.net/download/5239322531385cca/ Just so everyone knows, it replaces the original dat file with another original dat file. Nothing was changed. So no benefit. You still have to go in and edit the values yourself. If your savvy enough you can use the excel sheet of the same name to edit the values in a cleaner manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Officer_Dufus Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 They mention a fix for the ATI1900 series users for shadows, will this fix let us show vehicle body damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael2009gr Posted December 8, 2008 Author Share Posted December 8, 2008 ok im well confused, i dl that magic.bat file and ran it, its created 2 of every file by the look of it. so how do i edit the files and what file contains this bloom thing???? my opinion is to leave all that magic.bat and othes and wait for the patch more safe and more complete.......just wait they say that will be release soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NecroViolator Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Well, I tried to help. Some people liked playing without. Some with. Many people wanted to play without Bloom, so I tried to get rid of some of it. Although couldnt get rid of it completely was a shame. Dont think the Patch will help much, unless Rockstar gives us more GFX options... ... Owell... @disposeablehero Though you would be chating with your buddy about the Streaming problems/mem leaks and such... At least maybe you could help Rockstar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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