SecuROM will be used!

[amisnaru]

 

The game is gonna be hugely popular so they must do something to prevent the disaster that everyone will just pirate it.

This does not counter piracy. Stop making such stupid claims until you bring up a reasonable study or whatever argument that such type of copy protection reduces illegal copies. Currently it even seems to be the opposite: http://torrentfreak.com/spore-most-pirated...-to-drm-080913/

Well, actually I meant that that is how Rockstar must justify their copy protection.

Not my own little personal fact.

Yeah, I should've said it in my post, but I'm tired and I'm foreign

 

so.. seems like nothing counters piracy?

 

That being said, I'm buying a legal copy. I'm gonna play & enjoy, not giving a crap about this "DRM".

Until it starts putting gay porn shortcuts onto my desktop.

Edited November 28, 2008 by amisnaru

[RandomRant]

But I am buying the game to show support for the PC. The more people that buy it the better the chance the next GTA will be on the PC. Naturally the more people that steal it the less likely the next GTA will be on the PC.

 

And that stands against: The more people that buy it the better the chance the next GTA for PC will come with more annoying copy protection / DRM.

[DML]

The more people that buy it the better the chance the next GTA will be on the PC. Naturally the more people that steal it the less likely the next GTA will be on the PC.

Of course that's the logical way of thinking, and is one of the reasons I am buying, and promoting the notion of buying. But, you are paring the element of common sense with Rockstar - those are two things we both know do not go together well.

 

That's the whole point I was trying to make:

 

Rockstar = big, big, inflated ego.

Rockstar = don't want to see the PC version sell well - for it would make them look stupid for not making the game for the platform 7 months ago.

Rockstar = holds such a low view of the PC platform that they needed to delay a game which was already in the hands ("gold" finished copies) of certain major game reviewers, all because they discovered that there was a higher demand than they first allowed for in the initial production runs (this is speculation, but I know Rockstar enough to believe it to be true).

 

It's nice to see a game sell well on PC. It would also be nice to see the figures for the sales, instead of bullsh*t crap about console sales.

[.:Alex:.]

I'm hoping for a repeat of the Spore incident. In fact, SecuROM (and EA's attitude) has caused a LOT of crap with The Sims 2. I'm devestated to hear that Take 2 and Rockstar are using this truly atrocious software. Here's a site that has some info on it: http://www.the-prism.com/

 

Seriously, you do NOT want SecuROM on your computer. Boycott it. Buy it and use a pirate version. Anything! Just do not get this piece of crap on your machine, using any means necessary. It's notorious for destroying hardware and causing all sorts of performance problems. DO NOT WANT.

 

I was seriously considering buying this, but after the crap I've been through with other (EA) games I'm keeping away.

Edited November 28, 2008 by .:Alex:.

[gta-man22]

I was seriously considering buying this, but after the crap I've been through with other (EA) games I'm keeping away.

yeah, if they can pirate my pc, why not

[DOUDOU]

 

they are not trying to prevent piracy... the game industry is a f*cked up business. they are trying to kill the used-sales market right now:

http://www.gamedaily.com/games/gears-of-wa...sales-says-epic

 

drm and so on... I was going to buy this game without a single doubt but now i hestitate. I have to see if it uses activations...

In publishers eyes second hand games are nothing better then piracy. I.e. for each copy moved they don't see a dime.

that's one of their favorite arguments, bus, as many others arguments, and that's also true for some arguments used by majors of music and cinema, it's wrong, or at less innacurate

 

somebody buy a game, when he has finished the game, he sold it to somebody, with the money he got, plus some bucks of his own, he can get a new freshly released game, and then it goes again

 

everybodies was happy, people with many money bought many game, people with less money bought some games then sold them and buy others games, and the people with almost no money could sometimes buy some second-hand games

 

when idiots learnt about the second-hand market, they didn't think (because they're idiots), so they believed they didn't get money from this market, but this is wrong

 

All in all, what did you expect?

The game is gonna be hugely popular so they must do something to prevent the disaster that everyone will just pirate it.

 

Stop calling it DRM, it doesn't limit your installs or anything!

1-DRM is not just about limited installs, go learn somethings

2-yeah, this protection is DRM, and they know it ("this is not different from what itunes make")

3-you'll be surprised, but you can make a popular game, and even a much downloaded game, and still get many many sells (and many many many money)

ex: oblivion, simple CD-check, didn't cost money to the developpers, didn't add rootkits, sh*twares etc...on your computer, and still a best-seller

 

Those playing GTA 4 with an illegally hacked version have, according to Rockstar, to fear that the game will not be fully playable

Does this mean features in the game will be limited?

no, that's mean R* is using FUD

 

 

The game is gonna be hugely popular so they must do something to prevent the disaster that everyone will just pirate it.

This does not counter piracy. Stop making such stupid claims until you bring up a reasonable study or whatever argument that such type of copy protection reduces illegal copies. Currently it even seems to be the opposite: http://torrentfreak.com/spore-most-pirated...-to-drm-080913/

Well, actually I meant that that is how Rockstar must justify their copy protection.

Not my own little personal fact.

Yeah, I should've said it in my post, but I'm tired and I'm foreign

 

so.. seems like nothing counters piracy?

you also can't stop people from having car accidents, that doesn't mean you have to add a policeman in every car to prevent from speeding

 

still, if you want sell games, earn money, you can just make good games, with no sh*tty protections, ho surprising! it will sells good

 

or you can make crappy games, add sh*tty protections, and blame the world that the game didn't sell very well because of the downloaders (you know who y am talking about? )

 

GTA IV PC also requires a number of software installations, including Games For Windows, Adobe Flash, Internet Explorer, SecuROM and our Rockstar Games Social Club application.

sweet!! i misses some sh*twares on my computer

 

 

I'm hoping for a repeat of the Spore incident. In fact, SecuROM (and EA's attitude) has caused a LOT of crap with The Sims 2. I'm devestated to hear that Take 2 and Rockstar are using this truly atrocious software. Here's a site that has some info on it: http://www.the-prism.com/

 

Seriously, you do NOT want SecuROM on your computer. Boycott it. Buy it and use a pirate version. Anything! Just do not get this piece of crap on your machine, using any means necessary. It's notorious for destroying hardware and causing all sorts of performance problems. DO NOT WANT.

 

I was seriously considering buying this, but after the crap I've been through with other (EA) games I'm keeping away.

thanks mate

 

also, for the lazy people:

SecuROM: The Giant Guide V2.2 (except the pros is wrong, as stated up ahead link)

Edited November 28, 2008 by DOUDOU

[nlitement]

SecuROM is not Starforce, you silly beans.

[spudz47]

Did you read the DRM FAQ? It's on the gta4.net homepage...

 

[Madjoki]

 

A. To launch and play the GTA IV retail version, you must have GTA IV Disc 1 in the drive. If you want to play without a disk in the drive, you should buy the digital version of the game.

 

 

Multiple discs?

 

 

A. Each digital download vendor has its own policy on the number of installations that are allowed. Check the vendor's policy before you purchase.

 

 

 

A. Yes. If you have the retail disc version you will just need to take the disc with you and you can play on an unlimited number of machines. For the digital download versions you can install the game on 5 different PCs at one time, and can always REVOKE a license from any of those machines at any time to allow more new installations on a total of 5 machines at any time.

 

 

First it depends on vendor, then it's 5?

Yay for REVOKE!

 

 

A. All versions of the game will use SecuROM functionality. Steam will requires an extra layer of code to purchase and buy the game via Steam. Since Steam requires a login it will not have install limits that some other Digital Download copies will.

 

 

No limit for Steam! (might be my choice)

 

 

Rockstar Games rewards loyal, paying customers and will offer incentives and downloadable content that will only be available to registered users of the game, running non-hacked copies, via Rockstar Games Social Club.

 

 

DLC for PC? (for free?)

 

 

All in all sounds good after Spore etc...

[.:Alex:.]

It's still pretty crap. No, it doesn't sink the depths that only Starforce has plunged, but's very similar and sinister in nature. It installs to your computer (Copy-protection software should never install to your computer, especially without any mention in the EULA), secretly gives itself access to Ring 0, and has a "blacklist" of programs that it will attempt to disable, including most disc burning software (some games with the latest version of SecuROM will even refuse to install if it detects common burning software!). Plus, it's an absolute bitch to get rid of. Don't underestimate it. There's even several ongoing lawsuits because of it.

 

I'm thankful it's nowhere near as heinous as the Spore incident, but I still don't want the thing anywhere near me.

[Death_Blade]

Whilst I can understand the level of annoyance at this protection scheme. I have decided myself to go ahead and buy the game, then deal with the situations that arise from it. If you have decided not to buy the game because of these intrusive measures then that is fair enough. I am not going to try and change your mind.

 

However do not think that gives you the right to steal the game. If you are not paying for the game then you have no right to play the game. If you want to send a message that you won't buy securom protected software then fine, but don't think you can have your cake and eat it too.

 

Not willing to buy the game because of the protection, fine but show some f*cking balls and don't pirate the game. I can't stand the hypocrisy of some people "oh boo hoo I don't like the protection so I am going to steal the game".

I already bought the game on console. As far as im concerned, im well within my rights to get a pirated copy because I already own it. Especially with all the bullsh*t they've included in the PC version. By attempting to make their game more "secure" they've given the average consumer even MORE incentive to pirate it.

 

I intended to buy the game the whole time, but because of stuff like this, it makes everyone take a second look. At this point, a pirated version even seems BETTER since it would be easily modable, and isnt that what most pc gamers want anyway? Thats what I was excited about, the mods. I really hate using the console argument that I mentioned above, but if Rockstar wants to play that way, then thats the way its going to be. The way I see it, they've got their profit out of me, and they shouldn't get any more. Fair is fair.

[GTA_XP]

Hackers on the top!

Lol

[Madjoki]

 

It's still pretty crap. No, it doesn't sink the depths that only Starforce has plunged, but's very similar and sinister in nature. It installs to your computer (Copy-protection software should never install to your computer, especially without any mention in the EULA), secretly gives itself access to Ring 0, and has a "blacklist" of programs that it will attempt to disable, including most disc burning software (some games with the latest version of SecuROM will even refuse to install if it detects common burning software!). Plus, it's an absolute bitch to get rid of. Don't underestimate it. There's even several ongoing lawsuits because of it.

 

Securom is Ring 3 only.

 

 

2.3 Does SecuROM™ install a driver or any other software at the kernel level ("Ring 0") of my PC?

 

No, SecuROM™ does not install any components or perform any processes at the kernel or ring 0 level. All SecuROM™ components and processes occur at ring 3, the normal application level.

 

[Killuminati91]

Its nice to read posts on a gta forum that are actually not made by fanboys.

 

Funny situation we got right here with the game industry. They try to sell their games, which get worse and worse from release to release and we are supposed to buy them. Now if we dont buy them they dont sell them and if they dont sell them theyll blame it on the piracy. So they got someone from outside to blame instead of asking why people dont like their games.

 

But now after having their piracy-is-bad-cake for a few years they see a new evil. The second hand games.

So they invent drm to prevent people from selling their (sh*tty) games, so that the industry gets the money.

 

So at the end of the day they are just digging their own graves. We are not addicted to games, WE can still not buy it.

They have to sell it in order to get the money back.

 

I say f*ck the industry until they get their things right.

 

PS: Im not talking about gta right now but the whole industry. R* is kinda neat for not using this whole 5-acivation sh*t.

Cause i wouldnt buy it then rockstar

[DOUDOU]

 

It's still pretty crap. No, it doesn't sink the depths that only Starforce has plunged, but's very similar and sinister in nature. It installs to your computer (Copy-protection software should never install to your computer, especially without any mention in the EULA), secretly gives itself access to Ring 0, and has a "blacklist" of programs that it will attempt to disable, including most disc burning software (some games with the latest version of SecuROM will even refuse to install if it detects common burning software!). Plus, it's an absolute bitch to get rid of. Don't underestimate it. There's even several ongoing lawsuits because of it.

 

Securom is Ring 3 only.

 

 

2.3 Does SecuROM™ install a driver or any other software at the kernel level ("Ring 0") of my PC?

 

No, SecuROM™ does not install any components or perform any processes at the kernel or ring 0 level. All SecuROM™ components and processes occur at ring 3, the normal application level.

 

well... i don't think the FAQ of securom can be taken as a proof

 

 

-did you rape then kill that woman?

-no, i didn't

-ho...ok, so you can leave, thx for coming

Edited November 28, 2008 by DOUDOU

[Madjoki]

It's still pretty crap. No, it doesn't sink the depths that only Starforce has plunged, but's very similar and sinister in nature. It installs to your computer (Copy-protection software should never install to your computer, especially without any mention in the EULA), secretly gives itself access to Ring 0, and has a "blacklist" of programs that it will attempt to disable, including most disc burning software (some games with the latest version of SecuROM will even refuse to install if it detects common burning software!). Plus, it's an absolute bitch to get rid of. Don't underestimate it. There's even several ongoing lawsuits because of it.

 

Securom is Ring 3 only.

 

 

2.3 Does SecuROM™ install a driver or any other software at the kernel level ("Ring 0") of my PC?

 

No, SecuROM™ does not install any components or perform any processes at the kernel or ring 0 level. All SecuROM™ components and processes occur at ring 3, the normal application level.

 

well... i don't think the FAQ of R* can be taken as a proof

 

 

-did you rape then kill that woman?

-no, i didn't

-ho...ok, so you can leave, thx for coming

It's from Securom site.

 

If it's not really ring 3 then it deserves to get lawsuits!

[free_to_view]

I'm buying my version of GTA IV. Can't wait to play multiplayer with it. Just want to know, because of SecuROM being installed, will I be able to use a NO-CD CRACK? I find that loading is much faster on the hard drive then from the CD

[DOUDOU]

I'm buying my version of GTA IV. Can't wait to play multiplayer with it. Just want to know, because of SecuROM being installed, will I be able to use a NO-CD CRACK? I find that loading is much faster on the hard drive then from the CD

sorry, seems like R* want you to be annoyed, as every pc gamers, to force you to join the dark evil console side

[CharmingCharlie]

 

I already bought the game on console.  As far as im concerned, im well within my rights to get a pirated copy because I already own it. 

Erm no it doesn't just because you paid to play GTA 4 on the console that does not give you the right to steal the PC version. By that logic that means if you paid to see a film in the cinema you have every right to just steal a dvd to watch it at home.

 

When you paid for the console version you paid for a LICENCE to use it on the CONSOLE. But then I wouldn't expect you to understand that, I have long held the belief that it's actually console brats that are doing the majority of the software stealing.

 

If you are unhappy with the measures that come with the PC version then fine don't buy it. You already have GTA 4 on the console so play that version. At least make your protest MEAN something by not stealing the PC version.

Edited November 28, 2008 by CharmingCharlie

[RandomRant]

so.. seems like nothing counters piracy?

The counters against piracy are great games with good support, reasonable prices and usefull online features for registered users (useful does not include "remove feature from retail game and put it into download content").

[Malik]

The Steam will be free from SecuROM right?

No the steam version also has securom. The steam version is always identical to the retail version, the only difference is another layer of code to replace the cd check with linking the game to your account. So ALL versions of GTA 4 on the PC will have securom.

except for the pirated one

 

customers are getting a worse deal then leechers...

[amisnaru]

 

so.. seems like nothing counters piracy?

The counters against piracy are great games with good support, reasonable prices and usefull online features for registered users (useful does not include "remove feature from retail game and put it into download content").

Nope, most people would still pirate it because they get all those things mentioned plus the game for the most reasonable price of all, free of charge.

 

It's just a morale question nowadays, whether or not you want to support the creators financially.

Unless they're telling the truth about features missing if you're playing a pirated version.

Edited November 28, 2008 by amisnaru

[Malik]

so.. seems like nothing counters piracy?

The counters against piracy are great games with good support, reasonable prices and usefull online features for registered users (useful does not include "remove feature from retail game and put it into download content").

Exactly, it showed that good games at a normal price without protection sell way better then these securom drm protected pieces of crap and thats good!

[thereisnospoon]

You guys are crying way too much over this. It is a one time online activation, it probably won't take more than a couple minutes to do. Needing the disc to play isn't a big deal either, how long does it take to put the disc in? Three seconds? Those of you that are going to pirate the game now after finding out about SecuROM are pretty sad. R* should get payed because they made the game that you will basically stealing. Would you want to work on something and then find out you're not going to be paid? I sure wouldn't. Either way people will still pirate the game because they are too cheap to pay for the game and cause they feel like they're being betrayed by R*, there's no way to argue with them. I've preordered my game because I like the series and have been waiting for this game for quite awhile, SecuROM is not going to stop me from purchasing and playing this game. Chances are you probably wouldn't even install it 3 times over if it had a limit at all for installations, so no point in crying about that anyway.

[Death_Blade]

 

I already bought the game on console.  As far as im concerned, im well within my rights to get a pirated copy because I already own it. 

Erm no it doesn't just because you paid to play GTA 4 on the console that does not give you the right to steal the PC version. By that logic that means if you paid to see a film in the cinema you have every right to just steal a dvd to watch it at home.

 

When you paid for the console version you paid for a LICENCE to use it on the CONSOLE. But then I wouldn't expect you to understand that, I have long held the belief that it's actually console brats that are doing the majority of the software stealing.

 

If you are unhappy with the measures that come with the PC version then fine don't buy it. You already have GTA 4 on the console so play that version. At least make your protest MEAN something by not stealing the PC version.

I highly doubt console fags steal most of the software. Most of those kids dont know how to mod their console, and it takes more effort to burn a copy of a console game than it does (well, used to) to burn a pc game. As for the "license agreement" it says console or computer. (hey, government twists the constitution, ill just do the same thing here, even though I know this argument wouldnt hold up in a court of law.) Their main concern is money, and the way I see it, obtaining the game without paying for it does more damage to them than simply not getting it at all. Might as well make your protest somewhat useful. Take spore for example. You have to make an example of something. They did it with spore, and they'll probably do it here too.

 

In the end it comes down to the consumers stand point. At the moment most people feel like they're getting ripped off, and that the pirates are getting a better deal in the long run. Thats not good for ANY company, and Rockstars only hurting themselves. Now obviously most of what ive said was sarcasm, but a lot more people are going to go for the pirated version simply to avoid all the other BS. And not having to pay for it is always a plus. Just the way it is.

Edited November 28, 2008 by Death_Blade

[Chris_Waddle]

The reason that there are lawsuits against SecuRom 7 is that even though they claim it only works at ring level 3; to do what it does requires privileges to lower levels.

 

SecuRom 7 is able to detect emulation software (such as Alcohol 120%) and prevent this from running. It can also prevent your game from running, Even if you have the genuine disk in the drive because it has detected emulation software.

 

Emulation software is installed on a lower ring level than 3, so for SecuRom 7 to prevent it from operating means that it also must have access to these lower levels. If it didn't, it couldn't stop it. I'll leave you to decide on whether you think the creators of SecuRom are telling the truth or not.

[.:Alex:.]

Securom is Ring 3 only.

 

 

2.3 Does SecuROM™ install a driver or any other software at the kernel level ("Ring 0") of my PC?

 

No, SecuROM™ does not install any components or perform any processes at the kernel or ring 0 level. All SecuROM™ components and processes occur at ring 3, the normal application level.

 

You are honestly going to believe the website of a corporation (Sony) that has openly lied an been proved lying about DRM in the past? Go ahead, buy it if you want because I cannot stop anyone. I just believe that DRM, especially nasty malicious DRM such as SecuROM, is going to one day destroy the PC games industry.

 

Also, I believe there is a loophole that makes it legal to use a pirate copy of the game if you have purchased an actual copy of aforemented game. You have bought the game, and are permitted to have a backup of it. Something like that. Morally, you're still supporting them. Only difference is that you're using the SecuROM free version.

[extender]

When it is released on 2nd December in N-America, then I should get my copy by Friday. When it happens, then I will not download it from the internet. But when I will not receive my copy by Friday then I have to use "cracked" version until Monday because there is no way that I'm gonna wait extra 3 days. I've been waiting for this game 4 years already

[pimpinpenguin?]

Guy's i don't think you will need a disc to play anyway. The new SecuROM only utilizes online activation and that's it; Mass Effect, Spore etc all use that same system.Rockstar may add the option that you can still use the DVD to stream the radio off but it won't be compulsory.So there is no reason for you to use a crack unless your a pirate really.

I think Rockstar has gone the same way as in Bioshock, in that the server will send you the remaining bits of data required on release day just like Steam does. This will slow down the crackers as they don't have the complete game to crack and won't be able to release it before and on release day on torrents. I hope it's doesn't limit installs at all, cause that would kinda go against what Steam stands for, in that you can sign in and download your games anywhere on and any PC as many times as you want.

[CharmingCharlie]

 

I highly doubt console fags steal most of the software.  Most of those kids dont know how to mod their console, and it takes more effort to burn a copy of a console game than it does (well, used to) to burn a pc game.  As for the "license agreement" it says console or computer.  (hey, government twists the constitution, ill just do the same thing here, even though I know this argument wouldnt hold up in a court of law.)  Their main concern is money, and the way I see it, obtaining the game without paying for it does more damage to them than simply not getting it at all.

My point was it is console brats stealing PC software, they buy the game for their precious console (because it is too difficult to mod) then just steal the PC version when it comes out. Just like you suggested in your post, you feel that because you paid some money to run a game on ONE system you should be able to steal the PC version. Tell me if you buy another console will you go into a shop and steal a copy of GTA 4 that works on that console too ?

 

Now of course their main concern is money they are a business. That is how capitalism works they provide a product and we decide whether that product suits our needs and we pay for it. As for your assertion that you are sending a stronger message by pirating the game, that is pure idiocy all you are doing is strengthening their reasoning for putting DRM on the game and leaving the PC hanging when it comes to releases. Now just imagine how much stronger your message would be if you didn't pirate the game. You would then be saying "your DRM hurts your pockets so give me the game without DRM and I will pay for it".

 

 

Might as well make your protest somewhat useful.  Take spore for example.  You have to make an example of something.  They did it with spore, and they'll probably do it here too.

No by stealing their software you totally invalidate your argument. It's like saying "I am going on a hunger strike" and then making sure you have three square meals a day. If you feel so strongly about the protection then by all means do not buy the game. But show some balls and put your money where your mouth is and don't pirate the game either. I mean if Rockstar is treating you so shoddily why would you want to play their game at all then ? The fact of the matter is you are just using the DRM as an excuse for stealing the software pure and simple. It has f*ck all to do with "defending my rights as a customer" and everything to do with you being a cheap ass thief.

 

 

In the end it comes down to the consumers stand point.  At the moment most people feel like they're getting ripped off, and that the pirates are getting a better deal in the long run.  Thats not good for ANY company, and Rockstars only hurting themselves.  Now obviously most of what ive said was sarcasm,  but a lot more people are going to go for the pirated version simply to avoid all the other BS.  And not having to pay for it is always a plus.  Just the way it is.

Well here is a clue for you keep stealing the software and it won't just get worse it will get non-existent. Now I totally agree with you this DRM is pathetic and a complete waste of time. However it isn't a strong enough issue for me to boycott the game, if it was I would have the guts to completely boycott it and would not resort to being a common thief