Traffic density in Multiplayer?

[Delite]

Ok well I thought about this while I was blazed, just wondering how it will work in MP.

 

First I thought it would be controlled by the user options, but that would mean if someone had it at 20% and the other person at 100% he would be able to see (and get into) cars the other player wouldn't?

 

Then I thought it would be controlled by the server, but that would mean if the server put it @ 100% people with sucky comps would lag.

 

Finally I thought it would be hardcoded into MP at maybe 50-60% by R*, but that would be bad for people with bad comps because maybe they'd lag, and also bad for people with uber comps because they'd want more.

 

I'm still high

[spudz47]

I bet the host regulates the settings...

[Gutslab]

I'd venture and say it will be a server-side option, but that it will definitely be less than 100, unless the hosts don't want any people in their server. However, that is for dedicated servers. If R* puts up any servers(which I think they will), it will probably be much lower than 100.

[texan1985]

Could be automaticaly set to 33% which is the default for consoles. Having all those server side options would be annoying trying to find a server that caters to your liking. You'd be spending more time looking for a server than playing the game. just my opinion.

 

Or maybe set by tens. Like 10%, 20%, 30% that might make it easier.

[topeira]

i was thinking about this a few days ago myself.

 

the thing that seems weird to me is that more traffic requires better rig, right? but it also affects gameplay.

question is what side will require the beast of a rig to run traffic at 100? if all the calculations will fall on the host than i guess there is no big problem since evern players with lesser rigs can run the game and play on a server set to 100 since it isnt THEIR rig that needs to calculate the positions and physics of every car. it's the host's responsibility. BUT the player's rig will still need to render the polygons, so that means that the player with the lesser rig will have it more difficult since it will slow down his game and there's nothing he can do about it.

 

if it's up to every guest's rig to calculate the physics of the traffic than we will have a problem where many gamers wont be able to play at servers with 100 traffic.

 

thing is - i dont know what computer part is more responsible for the toll it takes to have traffic at 100. is it more a CPU thing (meant for fast dual cores or quads) or is it a GPU thing (since every car is more polys) or is it both equally?... hard to tell.

[flyer2359]

I'm guessing it will be the same setting as the console's or sort of the same thing.

Low density- 10%

Medium Density- 20%

High Density- 30%

Very High Density- 40%

 

ect....

[TruXter]

It has to be set low.

 

 

or we will see stuff like in mta and sa-mp

 

where one guy sees and empty street and a dude running to him.

the dude running to him suddenly stops, reaches out and opens

an imaginary door.. then POOF a car appears and the dude drives away.

[PestilenceJM]

Its defenately gonna be a serversetting. And i think when you search for servers, you can see at wich level the density is, and then decide if you wanna join or not.

[spaceeinstein]

It has to be set low.

 

 

or we will see stuff like in mta and sa-mp

 

where one guy sees and empty street and a dude running to him.

the dude running to him suddenly stops, reaches out and opens

an imaginary door.. then POOF a car appears and the dude drives away.

I don't get how more traffic would mean invisible cars to some people. Each car get synced so if you set high traffic you'll just have to sync more cars. If cars go invisible then it's bad connections, not an increase in traffic.

[noid449]

cos you graphics will be set to spawn less cars than him so only he will see it but it will be there on his

?

[pinky]

I bet the host regulates the settings...

How it works on the Consoles anyway, chances are it will be the case here too.

[TheRealPcGamer]

I'm sure that in MP will not have traffic density.

Or, because of the filter setting on PC, maybe you just can play with other people that have traffic density setting the same as you.

[pinky]

I'm sure that in MP will not have traffic density.

Or, because of the filter setting on PC, maybe you just can play with other people that have traffic density setting the same as you.

It is allready in console version and can pretty much stake my life that the PC version will be the exact same.

It is usefull for race modes, I magine if you had your traffic on max and everyone else had theirs on min. You would be getting your ass handed to you because there would be no way you can make it through all the traffic. Trust me, it is mayham with traffic maxed on MP and the PC traffis will probably be more dense than the consoles. At least every player is suffering it at the same time though.

Plus the traffic is synchronised on all players screens, having them different would cause all kinds of complications leading to bad slowdown.

Plus you would have one player crash into a car you dont see, all you would see is them flip up in the air for no reason. It would look rediculous in the end.

[Death_Blade]

Im guessing its going to be a default setting. It would be too difficult for them to leave it as a normal host-setting. Since almost every detail in the game seems like its going to be customizable, multiplayer would have to have some straight setting that everyone would default to, otherwise you'd have issues with syncing traffic, car damage, etc.

[lscratcher]

either it will be fixed just like the console traffic density either it will be controled by the server and ull be able to see how much density in the server browser, no other explanation

[spaceeinstein]

I still don't understand how different traffic settings means invisible cars. If a car is created in one game, then everyone's game will synced that car. If one game has 100 cars on screen, then everyone's game will sync that 100, no invisible cars..., just lots more to sync. So if one's setting is maxed out and the other is mined out, the game either chooses the max one or the min one, it can't choose both. Both either see lots of traffic or little traffic, both can't view different amount of traffic at the same time. They both have the same amount of synced cars, no invisible cars. If you experience invisible cars then you are out of sync, unless the game doesn't sync cars at all which I doubt.

Edited November 24, 2008 by spaceeinstein

[PestilenceJM]

I still don't understand how different traffic settings means invisible cars. If a car is created in one game, then everyone's game will synced that car. If one game has 100 cars on screen, then everyone's game will sync that 100, no invisible cars..., just lots more to sync. So if one's setting is maxed out and the other is mined out, the game either chooses the max one or the min one, it can't choose both. Both either see lots of traffic or little traffic, both can't view different amount of traffic at the same time. They both have the same amount of synced cars, no invisible cars. If you experience invisible cars then you are out of sync, unless the game doesn't sync cars at all which I doubt.

This is most probably the case.

 

But some people thought IF it could happen that rockstar has changed this for the PC version. But that would be ridiculous.

Different traffic densities for different players on the SAME server would case alot of chaos and frustration. Just imagine one player driving along an empty road (low density) on high speed, no obstacle in the way. Then another player on the same road sees alot of cars (high density) and sees the first player ramming through them without loosing speed. Wow, no way, this is not gonna happen. Rockstar must be stupid if they would, but they arent.

 

So in my oppinion, this question was allready answered in the first couple of replies.

[topeira]

come on, it's obvious that traffic is server side decision.

 

the big question is - does the stress on the machine is also only server side or not.

with "traffic meter" being a PC exclusive feature we can expect many servers pushing it pretty high to make use of that feature.

 

if the stress on the rig is both server side AND guest's side than does that mean that ppl with lesser machines wont be able to run the game well on these servers no matter how low they set the game's graphics on THEIR rigs?

 

THAT'S the big question.

[cant remember]

How is that a big question? The more cars you need to render, the slower your game will be, its that straight forward. It doesn't matter if the server created them, all clients and servers need to render them.

 

The clients will just have a slightly lower CPU usage since instead of using the AI they just get the action and position input from the server, but that really won't be that much of a difference compared to the amount of power required to actually render them graphically.

[PestilenceJM]

Yeah, as server host, you will notice if you have set the density of your server to high. Cause then no one will play on your server. Im pretty sure that there very soon will be found a perfect density wich is good for both good and bad computers.

[topeira]

How is that a big question? The more cars you need to render, the slower your game will be, its that straight forward. It doesn't matter if the server created them, all clients and servers need to render them.

 

The clients will just have a slightly lower CPU usage since instead of using the AI they just get the action and position input from the server, but that really won't be that much of a difference compared to the amount of power required to actually render them graphically.

so you're saying that the biggest impact traffic is going to have is on the GPU and not the CPU?

 

someone else said he thinks that traffic is more a matter of CPU to calculate physics and AI but u say it's more of a GPU rendering issue...

 

perhaps it's just both equally...

[pinky]

 

I still don't understand how different traffic settings means invisible cars. If a car is created in one game, then everyone's game will synced that car. If one game has 100 cars on screen, then everyone's game will sync that 100, no invisible cars..., just lots more to sync. So if one's setting is maxed out and the other is mined out, the game either chooses the max one or the min one, it can't choose both. Both either see lots of traffic or little traffic, both can't view different amount of traffic at the same time. They both have the same amount of synced cars, no invisible cars. If you experience invisible cars then you are out of sync, unless the game doesn't sync cars at all which I doubt.

Thats what I was meaning though, it will be decided by the host. I was just pointing out how daft it would be if it wasnt the case, the host must control the settings. Just like every other MP game worth it's salt.

The only settings you can adjust if you arent hosting will be graphics settings.

 

@lscratcher: The density isnt fixed on console MP, at least not the PS3 anyway. The host can set it to off, low, medium or high for all game modes. Players who jion can't change the setting on their own console, it is just displayed.

 

Hopefully traffic density will be one of the new filters we get for the PC MP, so you can find one to suit your own PC's abilities or your own personal tastes. Lets face it, that is what PC gaming is about.

[MorlockGod]

I'm going to have to go slightly off-topic here because this post tickled me:

 

 

I'm guessing it will be the same setting as the console's or sort of the same thing.

Low density- 10%

Medium Density- 20%

High Density- 30%

Very High Density- 40%

 

ect....

 

I like how 40% is already "Very High Density", so I couldn't resist imagining the rest of the list:

 

 

Ridiculously High Density - 50%

Nothing But Cars - 60%

Solid Cube of Compacted Metal - 70%

Neutron Star - 80%

Black Hole - 90%

Appointment with God - 100%

 

[DexX]

 

I'm going to have to go slightly off-topic here because this post tickled me:

 

 

I'm guessing it will be the same setting as the console's or sort of the same thing.

Low density- 10%

Medium Density- 20%

High Density- 30%

Very High Density- 40%

 

ect....

 

I like how 40% is already "Very High Density", so I couldn't resist imagining the rest of the list:

 

 

Ridiculously High Density - 50%

Nothing But Cars - 60%

Solid Cube of Compacted Metal - 70%

Neutron Star - 80%

Black Hole - 90%

Appointment with God - 100%

i can't resist hypothetical situations;

There are at least 16 players on the PC gta4. Each player is in a unique location on the map, so none of the traffic cars are shared. The server has the traffic setting maxed (100%), so with parked cars and moving traffic, there are 20 unique vehicles within the radius of each player. Potentially, thats 320 vehicles to be synced - physics, ai, etc. Or a more contrived setting, 32 players (whats the max for PC gtaiv?), would result in up to 640 vehicles to be synced (still assuming 20 unique, per player). at once.

 

Hmm, no, i can't see it. If there is a server-side option for traffic density, which i'm assuming there is, it probably has a cap on the max vehicles, which supercedes any traffic density setting.

[pinky]

 

I'm going to have to go slightly off-topic here because this post tickled me:

 

 

I'm guessing it will be the same setting as the console's or sort of the same thing.

Low density- 10%

Medium Density- 20%

High Density- 30%

Very High Density- 40%

 

ect....

 

I like how 40% is already "Very High Density", so I couldn't resist imagining the rest of the list:

 

 

Ridiculously High Density - 50%

Nothing But Cars - 60%

Solid Cube of Compacted Metal - 70%

Neutron Star - 80%

Black Hole - 90%

Appointment with God - 100%

i can't resist hypothetical situations;

There are at least 16 players on the PC gta4. Each player is in a unique location on the map, so none of the traffic cars are shared. The server has the traffic setting maxed (100%), so with parked cars and moving traffic, there are 20 unique vehicles within the radius of each player. Potentially, thats 320 vehicles to be synced - physics, ai, etc. Or a more contrived setting, 32 players (whats the max for PC gtaiv?), would result in up to 640 vehicles to be synced (still assuming 20 unique, per player). at once.

 

Hmm, no, i can't see it. If there is a server-side option for traffic density, which i'm assuming there is, it probably has a cap on the max vehicles, which supercedes any traffic density setting.

Unless they actually got their fingers out and did something clever. Maybe having your own PC dealing with your own trafiic till you are within a certain radius of another player or players perhaps. Then the synching begins between the two, or how many are within this distance of each other. I was going to say veiwing distance but for it to work properly it would have to happen before any visual contact was made.

Or deos it pehaps have a limit and it is used within the radius of the players on the map, the further apart they get the thinner the traffic would appear.

Dunno, we will have to wait and see I suppose.

 

And like you say DexX, this going to have to synch 32 players together. I didnt notice any traffic drop on the PS3 multiplayer when away from the main group etc.

Maybe some experiments are in order on my PS3 to see if there is any difference, never noticed before but I wasnt looking.

[PestilenceJM]

I'm going to have to go slightly off-topic here because this post tickled me:

 

 

I'm guessing it will be the same setting as the console's or sort of the same thing.

Low density- 10%

Medium Density- 20%

High Density- 30%

Very High Density- 40%

 

ect....

 

I like how 40% is already "Very High Density", so I couldn't resist imagining the rest of the list:

 

 

Ridiculously High Density - 50%

Nothing But Cars - 60%

Solid Cube of Compacted Metal - 70%

Neutron Star - 80%

Black Hole - 90%

Appointment with God - 100%

Let me imagine a server with 100% density. And there are 32 players who start at different point in the city. Now in the first 2 hours, no player will see another, cause theres a huge traffic jam. Though finally one player decides to go on on foot xD

[topeira]

I'm going to have to go slightly off-topic here because this post tickled me:

 

 

I'm guessing it will be the same setting as the console's or sort of the same thing.

Low density- 10%

Medium Density- 20%

High Density- 30%

Very High Density- 40%

 

ect....

 

I like how 40% is already "Very High Density", so I couldn't resist imagining the rest of the list:

 

 

Ridiculously High Density - 50%

Nothing But Cars - 60%

Solid Cube of Compacted Metal - 70%

Neutron Star - 80%

Black Hole - 90%

Appointment with God - 100%

LOL.

 

peronally i love traffic and peds. the thing that makes a city feel alive is having living things in it.

even in a relatively quite city like my home town (which is by no means NY) it has constant traffic everywhere but the suburbs and that is what makes it feel like a real place with ppl living in it. the need for speed seriese had a dubious trademark of having dead cities cuz there were almost no traffic.

 

i would LOVE to be able to run traffic at max settings on my rig but i dont think i will be able to. i have a lame x1900xtx512mb.... :\ dont know if it can handle it.

[JustCoke]

As we saw we will get only 32 players on multiplayer, so be sure that we'll get traffic density on the PC version.

As Liberty City is big, and we are just 32 little things, we will feel like we need the peds and the traffic, if not how would we get the cars to run around LC?

[Chris_Waddle]

The way I can only see it working is if, as has been said, the density is a server setting. This way everyone will get the same number of cars etc.

 

As for issues with different pc's it will be down to you and how you set up your pc.

Someone with an uber pc will be able to turn everything up to high. All this will mean is that he will see all the detail in a car, cracks in pavements, bricks in walls, a long way ahead etc and it should all run smoothly with lots of peripheral vision.

 

If you have a crappy old pc, you'll have to run everything on low settings. Your cars may look like bricks on wheels, but the game should run fine. Things just won't look as good and you won't be able to see as far.

 

Both the CPU and GPU (graphics card) will affect this.

 

A superb CPU will enable the game to run smoothly (forgetting how it looks) but if your gpu is old, you'll need to turn the graphics settings down to get the game to run well. The GPU will become a bottle-neck trying to draw everything.

 

A superb GPU will let the computer draw everything wonderfully, but if you have a poor CPU the GPU won't get information quick enough and again you will have a bottle-neck, this time from the cpu. Again you will need to lower the settings to get it to run smoothly.

 

A general rule of thumb is (for a low spec machine); the less eye candy you have, the smoother the game will run. This will help you on-line as your machine will not be trying to draw everything causing your game to lag.

 

The better your machine, the more eye candy you can have and the game will still run smoothly.