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Crimson King

global warming

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Crimson King

i'm glad the topic in gen chat got closed so that we can have a serious discussion in here.

 

nah seriously. it's sooo ignorant to think that one chemical compound is the source of all the climate change on earth. the earth's climate has gone up and down since the dawn of time, even in the last millenium theres been a medieval warm period and a little ice age. co2 has never affected climate before, why would it be now? none of the major climate changes in the past can be traced to carbon dioxide.

 

they've done ice core studies and they found that the temperature would rise, then 800 years later the co2 level would rise. temperature is actually leading the carbon dioxide, so obviously carbon dioxide is not causing the temperature to rise, but actually the other way around, temperature is causing the rise in co2.

 

even if co2 is the problem and the temperature is going to rise further, 8000 years ago there was a holocene maximum period and the temperature was much warmer, and pandas and civilisation and sh*t survived, so why wouldn't we survive a climate change this time?

since the mid-19th century, the temperature has risen by like half a degree, but this rise began before cars and planes were even invented. most of the rise in temperature occured around the 1940s, when industrial production and hence carbon dioxide was insignificant.

 

humans make like a single digit percentage of the co2 in the atmosphere.

volcanoes and the ocean and trees make much more carbon dioxide than all humans put together. the real source of climate change is, surprisingly, the sun! it's got to do with the sun spots and astral rays and the clouds and sh*t.

 

anyone who is even mildly intrigued by this should definitely watch the great global warming swindle, it's a real eye opener. it proves al gore wrong. this fella says about how they say on global warming studies like "2500 scientists cant be wrong", some of those scientists disagree and resign, but they're still put on the author list.

 

ps someone in the other topic said the co2 levels have risen by 35% since whenever, but little do they realise co2 in the atmosphere is measured in like one millionths of a percentage so 35% is f*ck all.

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Svip

CO2 emissions have happened throughout the course of time. Yes. But humans produce enough more (though only a few percent of the entire amount of emission), but obviously you cannot grasp how unstable a climate is. For the same reason it is so unlikely to find an inhabitable planet like the Earth.

 

Indeed, the small amount humans produce more than what nature produces is enough to unstabilise the balance of the CO2 emissions that have always been there. Nature is unable to deal with the extra amount we produce within a respectable amount of time (relatively to a human lifespan). Temperatures are climbing, and are accelerating much faster than ever seen before. Yes, there was a warmth period during the Middle Ages, but it took many years to get that warm, and too to get that cold again.

 

Ice ages does not happen over night. Global Warming almost is.

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Crimson King

even still, it's illogical to say that carbon dioxide is the only factor.

 

i'm not a scientist, which may come as a surprise to most, but according to the great global warming swindle, carbon dioxides relativity to the temperature is actually in the reverse to what is claimed.

if the climate is so fragile, how come it can handle all the natural emissions of co2, but if we build a factory it f*cks it up?

 

ps if human produced carbon dioxide is the cause of global warming, why did it start warming up long before significant carbon dioxide emissions started being made?

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Svip

 

even still, it's illogical to say that carbon dioxide is the only factor.

 

i'm not a scientist, which may come as a surprise to most, but according to the great global warming swindle, carbon dioxides relativity to the temperature is actually in the reverse to what is claimed.

if the climate is so fragile, how come it can handle all the natural emissions of co2, but if we build a factory it f*cks it up?

Ugh, because the natural emissions are what keeps our climate in check. You don't want more or less of the natural emissions. Keep it stable. Get it?

 

It's just like medicine, in large doses it can kill you.

 

 

ps if human produced carbon dioxide is the cause of global warming, why did it start warming up long before significant carbon dioxide emissions started being made?

 

I am having some doubts about facts you pulled out of your ass, personally.

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Crimson King
even still, it's illogical to say that carbon dioxide is the only factor.

 

i'm not a scientist, which may come as a surprise to most, but according to the great global warming swindle, carbon dioxides relativity to the temperature is actually in the reverse to what is claimed.

if the climate is so fragile, how come it can handle all the natural emissions of co2, but if we build a factory it f*cks it up?

Ugh, because the natural emissions are what keeps our climate in check. You don't want more or less of the natural emissions. Keep it stable. Get it?

 

It's just like medicine, in large doses it can kill you.

 

 

ps if human produced carbon dioxide is the cause of global warming, why did it start warming up long before significant carbon dioxide emissions started being made?

 

I am having some doubts about facts you pulled out of your ass, personally.

silly bastard. how does that atmosphere know which emissions come from nature and which ones come from power plants and sh*t? in autumn there would be more co2 in the air because of all the dead leaves falling from trees, but we dont blame global warming on that.

 

ps

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Instrum...ture_Record.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Instrumental_Temperature_Record.png)

 

see dip. it started warming up before we even knew what carbon dioxide is. and then after the ww2 economic boom, according to you the temperature shouldve risen because of the increase in co2 emissions, but it actually went down! and it wasnt until the economic recession in the 70s that the temperature started to rise again. sweet paradox.

the facts dont fit the theory.

 

if you take co2 as a percentage of all the gases in the atmosphere, it's .054%. then you have to add the supposed portion that humans are adding, and the percentage is even smaller. the atmosphere is made up of heaps of gases, one gas isnt gonna f*ck up the earth.

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Jonny_Tightlips

 

silly bastard. how does that atmosphere know which emissions come from nature and which ones come from power plants and sh*t?

 

Are you kidding me? He's not saying theres a distinction. He's saying that if theres even a slight bit too much, it can f*ck everything up. Which obviously there is in this case.

 

And are you even looking at that f*cking graph right? Do you see where the levels are at where you pointed out that dip? It's still close to the record high for that entire time before 1940. And then it begins to increase faster and faster over the 5 year averages. It's obviously higher than its been in an extremely long time, and you don't yet realize if the global temperature is off by even a few measly degrees, THINGS GET AFFECTED.

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Crimson King

theres been climate fluctuations in the past and the world didnt come to a crunching halt?

 

and of course the atmosphere doesnt differentiate what co2 comes from where, but i'm saying it makes f*ck all difference the small amount that humans produce.

if humans plant 1000 deciduous tree and their leaves fall off and create carbon dioxide, how is that any less bad than you driving your car to work?

 

ps dip of course the temperature is gonna be higher than the average because the earth is warming up naturally! it's been warming up for 100 years. the climate of the earth doesnt stay the same forever, it's meant to change. the idea of humans changing the climate is preposterous

 

youre a goody two shoes zak, i bet you pay to offset your emissions and other stupid sh*t.

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Svip

 

see dip. it started warming up before we even knew what carbon dioxide is. and then after the ww2 economic boom, according to you the temperature shouldve risen because of the increase in co2 emissions, but it actually went down! and it wasnt until the economic recession in the 70s that the temperature started to rise again. sweet paradox.

the facts dont fit the theory.

 

if you take co2 as a percentage of all the gases in the atmosphere, it's .054%. then you have to add the supposed portion that humans are adding, and the percentage is even smaller. the atmosphere is made up of heaps of gases, one gas isnt gonna f*ck up the earth.

You seem to assume that a theory has a completely perfect line through time. Obviously that is not going to happen, as nature is hardly linear or plain or anything of that sort that looks nice in theory. The graph you linked to fits the theory perfectly well, there are some few off points, that could be the solar cycle, there are many other things causing abnormalities in annual warmth. But nothing as increasing as what goes on after the 1970s. That is abnormality, something nature itself does not produce.

 

And answer me this, if Global Warming is a conspiracy, what is the gain?

 

 

theres been climate fluctuations in the past and the world didnt come to a crunching halt?

 

and of course the atmosphere doesnt differentiate what co2 comes from where, but i'm saying it makes f*ck all difference the small amount that humans produce.

if humans plant 1000 deciduous tree and their leaves fall off and create carbon dioxide, how is that any less bad than you driving your car to work?

 

ps dip of course the temperature is gonna be higher than the average because the earth is warming up naturally! it's been warming up for 100 years. the climate of the earth doesnt stay the same forever, it's meant to change. the idea of humans changing the climate is preposterous

The world hasn't come to a crunching halt, has it now? Well, has it? I don't think so. I am still breathing and stuff, and so is much of the Earth. And the Earth would be coming to a crunching halt any time soon.

 

But things will be warmer. And that will be a problem, ice around the world are showing clear signs of this, just take Greenland, the North Pole, the South Pole and certain mountain areas are showing a large decreasing in size, due to the rapidly increasing warmth.

 

Even if it the Earth was getting warmer, it would not go at this rate. And besides, studies show that the Earth should actually be cooling rather than warming.

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Crimson King

 

And answer me this, if Global Warming is a conspiracy, what is the gain?

are you f*cking serious? if theres not a problem to solve, who's gonna fund the scientists? have you seen the figures of how much money they're investing in climate studies? it's f*cken stupid, like 2billion$. imagine how many peoples jobs rely on global warming being a problem. you could look at anything and find a problem for that much cash.

 

global warming is preventinng africa from developing. they have big global warming ceremonies in nairobi and tell the poor african c*nts they need to use solar power, the most expensive and the least efficent way of creating energy. you stupid numbskulls think we have to solve this problem now before our great great grandkids don't have to live in the blistering heat of an extra 2 degrees, meanwhile theres the current problem of millions of black c*nts dying because no one wants them to develop because it may or may not adversely affect the climate.

 

ps what studies say the world should be getting cooler? studies funded by the poof who invented global warming probably.

 

the earth is only warming at an alarming rate if youre only taking into consideration the last one hundred years.

 

 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png

 

that looks nuts.

however, it's misleading because it's such a short time.

 

 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Holocene_Temperature_Variations.png

 

over 10,000 years, the increase isnt that amazing.

Edited by Crimson King

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Svip

 

And answer me this, if Global Warming is a conspiracy, what is the gain?

are you f*cking serious? if theres not a problem to solve, who's gonna fund the scientists? have you seen the figures of how much money they're investing in climate studies? it's f*cken stupid, like 2billion$. imagine how many peoples jobs rely on global warming being a problem. you could look at anything and find a problem for that much cash.

 

global warming is preventinng africa from developing. they have big global warming ceremonies in nairobi and tell the poor african c*nts they need to use solar power, the most expensive and the least efficent way of creating energy. you stupid c*nts think we have to solve this problem now before our great great grandkids don't have to live in the blistering heat of an extra 2 degrees, meanwhile theres the current problem of millions of black c*nts dying because no one wants them to develop because it may or may not adversely affect the climate.

You are actually thinking quite a lot of us, eh?

 

I don't care about Global Warming, I just think it is real, because I see no reason to deny it. And none of your bullcrap is going to tell me even more so.

 

I don't care about going green, I don't care about buying what's right for the planet, cause I know that won't do a whole lot of help anyway. I personally don't think Global Warming can be stopped. Only thing we can do is prevent disaster.

 

Also, I believe in Nuclear Power. One of the most efficient and cleanest of energy.

 

Also, scientists have plenty of other work to do. The only gain I can see is making money from making people going "green". And no, I don't buy offsets, because I have better things to spend my money on.

 

Edit: At the last picture; actually the increase is abnormal as it is so much a larger increase than previously observed, in fact it is so steep it cannot fit on the graph.

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Crimson King

yeah that's the point. it's only such a big rise because it's such a short time. but in the holocene pic you can see it was way hot in the medieval warm period and sh*t.

 

you just proved my point too. people like you refuse to listen to reason, no matter how strong the opposing arguments are. i'm just a humanitarian trying to save the world from wasting time worrying about global warming.

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Svip

 

yeah that's the point. it's only such a big rise because it's such a short time. but in the holocene pic you can see it was way hot in the medieval warm period and sh*t.

 

you just proved my point too. people like you refuse to listen to reason, no matter how strong the opposing arguments are. i'm just a humanitarian trying to save the world from wasting time worrying about global warming.

No... you are not giving me strong opposing arguments. And your attitude ain't helping.

 

The medieval warm period was even colder than the average temperature of 2004. From the same graph you can tell that in general the temperature was lowering since the medieval warm period, but it suddenly hits a strange turn and shoots into the "air" when it comes around the 20th century.

 

Something is clearly not natural here.

 

Oh, if you want people to stop talking about Global Warming, why don't YOU start by stop talking about Global Warming? We weren't discussing it before you came along, were we?

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Crimson King

i never said people should stop talking about it. i said people are wrong.

 

ps you cant compare an entire era to the average temperature of one year. there are naturally warmer years than others you know.

 

even if we are unnaturally warming the world, the ice caps don't just melt. ice shelves fall off antarctica and sh*t all the time so that's no indication that it's too warm. and a rising sea level is an insanely long process, it doesn't just happen. we'd have time to prepare for it years in advance.

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Struff Bunstridge
the earth is only warming at an alarming rate if youre only taking into consideration the last one hundred years.

 

And why do you think the increase over the last 100 years or so looks so alarming, as you put it? The effect of the human race moving its agriculture, transport and manufacturing industries towards machinery powered by fossil fuels, perhaps? The advent of the internal combustion engine was in the late 1800s. You don't think there's a direct correlation there?

 

Look, to quote what I said in the old thread:

 

 

Are you suggesting that after hundreds of thousands of years of existence, glaciers got together and agreed to start melting faster, just for the fun of it? Are you suggesting that emissions from burning fossil fuels are having only a negligible effect on the planet's climate, or that rising temperatures won't affect precipitation, acidification levels of the oceans, or the regularity of weather phenomena such as tsunamis or hurricanes?

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Crimson King

ask me if i give a hoot what you said in the other topic. the glaciers arent melting at any rate ya plonker? antarctica is like expanding because its freezing more.

 

ps it's just a coincidence that the temperature started rising the same time as co2.

 

if you watch this movie i bet no one else replies cause it blows the sh*t out of global boring.

 

 

http://www.garagetv.be/video-galerij/blancostemrecht/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle_Documentary_Film.aspx

 

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1066ant
yeah that's the point. it's only such a big rise because it's such a short time. but in the holocene pic you can see it was way hot in the medieval warm period and sh*t.

 

you just proved my point too. people like you refuse to listen to reason, no matter how strong the opposing arguments are. i'm just a humanitarian trying to save the world from wasting time worrying about global warming.

No... you are not giving me strong opposing arguments. And your attitude ain't helping.

 

The medieval warm period was even colder than the average temperature of 2004. From the same graph you can tell that in general the temperature was lowering since the medieval warm period, but it suddenly hits a strange turn and shoots into the "air" when it comes around the 20th century.

 

Something is clearly not natural here.

 

Oh, if you want people to stop talking about Global Warming, why don't YOU start by stop talking about Global Warming? We weren't discussing it before you came along, were we?

Seriously Svip is right, if you compare the sheer ammount of change of the medieviel warm period and now you can see massive increase that follows in line with the ammount of extra Co2 produced by the human race.

 

Anyone watched "An Inconvinient Truth" by Al Gore...

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Struff Bunstridge

 

ask me if i give a hoot what you said in the other topic. the glaciers arent melting at any rate ya plonker? antarctica is like expanding because its freezing more.

 

ps it's just a coincidence that the temperature started rising the same time as co2.

 

 

So that serious discussion you asked for in the first post, you're blowing that off within one page, amirite? I don't care if you 'give a hoot' or not, but a discussion in D&D should involve reasoned debate, not ignoring people's arguments.

 

Also, if you think glaciers aren't melting, look here:

 

http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/pages/glaciers.html (http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/pages/glaciers.html)

 

Antarctic:

 

 

The Larsen Ice Shelf lost a 1200 square mile section early in 2002

 

 

This mile-long ice cliff of Marr Ice Piedmont, Anvers Island, has receded about 500 meters since the mid 1960s...The regional temperature has increased 5° C in winter over the past 50 years.

 

Arctic:

 

 

Alaska permafrost temperature has increased 0.5° to 1.5° C since 1980...Serious effects include forest damage, sinking roads and buildings, eroding tundra riverbanks, changes in tundra vegetation, and increased carbon dioxide and methane emissions from thawed peat.

 

Mountain glaciers:

 

 

Photographer Gary Braasch holding a 1932 photo of Broggi glacier near Huascaran in the Peruvian Andes, while rephotographing this receding glacier in 1999...This glacier, previously photographed by the Austrian Hans Kinzl, receded about one kilometer in 67 years.

 

 

Glacier Ururashraju, at about 15,000 feet in Cordillera Blanca of Peru. Photographed in 1986 by Peruvian glaciologist Alcides Ames, whose studies and direction allowed Gary Braasch to rephotograph it in 1999. Retreat of about 500 M.

 

 

Grinnell glacier, Glacier National Park, USA, which has receded almost out of sight. Photographed by a park photographer in 1911 and by Gary Braasch in 2000. Estimates by US National Park Service scientist Dan Fagre are that all but a few of the 30 glaciers in this Northern Rocky Mountains park will be gone by mid-century.

 

 

Glaciers in the Northwest United States have also been shrinking.  Studies by the Climate Impacts Group at University of Washington show regional temperature has been 1.5° F warmer in the 20th century, with rising snow lines, decreasing mountain snowpack, and earlier spring runoff...much less late summer ice from which the region gets water for irrigation, drinking, and fish habitat.

 

 

That's just one website. There are plenty more. Care to provide some evidence for your own arguments?

 

 

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Jonny_Tightlips

And Struff takes the cake. Seriously Crimson, you've made claims that you can't even support with factual evidence.

 

 

antarctica is like expanding because its freezing more.

 

From that alone I can tell you are telling yourself these things are right, because in your head you think it makes the most sense.

 

And thats what your entire argument is based around, this thing called Global Warming not making any sense, at least to you. So automatically, it's a conspiracy, and humans aren't actually doing anything harmful to the planet.

 

Either get of your bubble or shut the hell up.

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Svip
Anyone watched "An Inconvinient Truth" by Al Gore...

I wouldn't listen to anything Al Gore says. He's one of the most hypocritical people there is.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/edito...ore-green_x.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/edito...ore-green_x.htm) (http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2006-08-09-gore-green_x.htm)

Give me something else than USA Today, I might bother read it.

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Seachmall
if humans plant 1000 deciduous tree and their leaves fall off and create carbon dioxide, how is that any less bad than you driving your car to work?

Its called the carbon cycle,

 

.03% C02 in the atmosphere

Plants photosynthesise and use carbon dioxide from the atmosphere

The plants die or are eaten by animals which die or excrete

The dead plants, dead animals and/or animal exretion are broken down and carbon dioxide is released into the atmosphere

 

Its a very delicate cycle, when humans release carbon dioxide there is no cycle like this, its just released.

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mark-2007

I see parts of crimson king's argument which I agree with, but it's flawed too.

 

Global warming is happening, glaciers are retreating and average temperatures are on the up. It's whether it's the Earth's natural processes, or if it's human activity to be blamed for it. The thing is, most people here seem to be focusing on the last hundred years. Even the last millenium is too short a time to look at. Earth constantly warms up and cools down in cycles, and humans have just so happened to flourish at a time when it's warming and so think that the changes they're experiencing are their own fault. It might take thousands of years for it to heat up, so much so that within the last two million years, there's been giraffes and other savannah animals found in what is now London. It's naturally cooled since and then steadied out, only to begin to rise again. We're in an inter-glacial and the Earth's average temperature is still fluctuating. The fact that's is rising might cause problems for humans, but for the planet as a whole, it'll cool down eventually.

 

That said, all the CO2 and all the other sh*t we're pumping out into the atmosphere can't be doing the planet much good, so there is a chance that humans are the cause of global warming. So I don't see what's wrong with trying to cut down on CO2 emissions, it can't do the planet any bad. As for crimson's argument that human's adding to CO2 in the atmosphere isn't harmful, the CO2 levels might be a tiny part of the atmosphere's make-up, but adding to it will dramatically change things as others have pointed out.

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Crimson King

 

Anyone watched "An Inconvinient Truth" by Al Gore...

pffft. have you? it's got about one shred of evidence and the rest is just shock footage of ice melting and sh*t.

 

carbon dioxide is a natural compound so why would it f*ck up the earth? the people who think global warming is gonna be the end of the world are the same people who are scared of the hadron collider. uneducated numbskulls who just believe the first thing they hear.

 

guff dumbstridge, ice shelves collapsing is completely natural as well. and maybe some of it is caused by global warming, but you obviously havent read anything i've said. the debate isnt about whether or not global warming is real, it's about whether or not humans created it.

obviously ice is supposed to melt, otherwise it would be called permafrost.

 

ps sdip thats your problem ya weakling. you dont trust any news sources other than ones you agree with.

Edited by Crimson King

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Seachmall
carbon dioxide is a natural compound so why would it f*ck up the earth?

Because its being released with any way to recycle it and therefore it sits in the atmosphere and does its global warming thing. When carbon dioxide is released by nature its reused by nature, theres a purpose for it.

 

obviously ice is supposed to melt, otherwise it would be called permafrost.
Obviously water is supposed to flow, otherwise it would be called permastill. suicidal.gif

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Crimson King
obviously ice is supposed to melt, otherwise it would be called permafrost.
Obviously water is supposed to flow, otherwise it would be called permastill. suicidal.gif

oh true. case closed. thanks, al gore.

 

ps last time i checked, humans are part of nature. us creating co2 is just as natural as anything else.

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makeshyft
ps last time i checked, humans are part of nature. us creating co2 is just as natural as anything else.

Rethink that statement. It's probably one of the stupidest things I have ever heard in my life.

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Struff Bunstridge
guff dumbstridge, ice shelves collapsing is completely natural as well. and maybe some of it is caused by global warming, but you obviously havent read anything i've said. the debate isnt about whether or not global warming is real, it's about whether or not humans created it.

obviously ice is supposed to melt, otherwise it would be called permafrost.

 

Ice shelves collapsing may occur in nature, but the frequency with which it's been happening over the last hundred or so years is anything but natural. Also, a single glacier retreating a whole kilometre in 67 years does not happen naturally without external influence raising the overall temperature. Do you think it's a coincidence that the increased rate of glacial melt coincides quite neatly with the first and second industrial revolutions, and has been gathering pace with every cubic litre of emissions from burning fossil fuels? The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, an organisation awarded the Nobel Peace Prize last year, published a report concluding that "most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-twentieth century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations", in other words, humans and their practices are the most likely culprits for increasing temperatures. They're fairly open-minded about any warming prior to 1945, but pretty damn adamant about the way it's shifted since 1975. Further, the increase in temperature between 1906 and 2005 was greater than between 1901 and 2000, meaning that this sh*t is accelerating. How you can possibly think this is natural is beyond me.

 

Oh, and carbon dioxide may be a naturally occurring compound, but that doesn't mean it isn't harmful. Take oxygen, which is actually a metabolic poison, and is used to etch glass in high concentrations. Or how about carbon monoxide, lethal to pretty much any life form on the planet?

 

Finally, Guff Dumbstridge? If you want to be a child, take it somewhere else.

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Seachmall

 

ps last time i checked, humans are part of nature. us creating co2 is just as natural as anything else.

Humans naturally release carbon dioxide via respiration and excretion (the excreted materials are broken down by bacteria), it then enters the carbon cycle (which I outlined above). Burning tons of oil is a bit more dramatic then breathing.

 

If you release too much carbon dioxide the natural method to recycle it (i.e. the carbon cycle) will not be enough. We are releasing more carbon dioxide then nature expects.

Edited by Seachmall

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Svip
ps sdip thats your problem ya weakling. you dont trust any news sources other than ones you agree with.

First, start by stop calling us names. It just shows how childish and how obviously deluded you are.

 

Secondly, I don't trust USA Today cause I know of its obvious idiocy bias. And much less do I trust an editorial, something which is clearly written with opinion in mind. Oh, you did not catch that? Or did you mistake for an article.

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Jesta

It really is happening.

 

http://www.isarapix.org/pix97/1222317351.jpg (http://www.isarapix.org/pix97/1222317351.jpg)

http://www.isarapix.org/pix75/1222317375.jpg (http://www.isarapix.org/pix75/1222317375.jpg)

 

Notice the change? There is more CO2 in the air:

 

http://www.isarapix.org/pix64/1222317401.png (http://www.isarapix.org/pix64/1222317401.png)

http://www.isarapix.org/pix41/1222317420.png (http://www.isarapix.org/pix41/1222317420.png)

 

 

The planet is heating up, maybe to new Ice Age proportions, but humans don't produce as much CO2 to be the main cause of it, as far as I know.

Edited by Jesta

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