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Ronnyboy

Oil vs. Natrue Conservation

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Ronnyboy

As we know, these are tough times for everyone with oil prices, and trying to find oil. As some of you may know, Alaska has a large supply of oil that can be drilled. Of course this would allow oil prices to drop a bit, as foreign oil dependency would become less needed. It sounds great, as it is our land, and has very little human life, so drilling could also cause towns to grow, and make Alaska be more, well, prosperous with more inhabitants.

 

This all sounds fine and dandy to everyone, it sounds like a relief, a chance at cheaper oil, but then here comes the Wildlife Lovers telling us it will upset the natural cause, possible extinction of species, and etc. They feel drilling in Alaska is not right, as it may upset life, and they want the animals to live. So, there goes that idea out the window.

 

So now we have to drill elsewhere, maybe the ocean? Sure! Why not? I mean, it is big, and probably full of oil, only problem is we have to find it. It may take 11 years, but is that better then no oil at all? Well, we can now do more of this drilling, but guess who is back?

 

The Ocean lovers come out of no where and tell us it will upset the wildlife, again. It can destroy homes of animals, kill underwater plants, upset the ocean life, etc. So, we are now going to not drill there, and we are now, again depending on foreign oil.

 

So, do you feel that politicians should not worry about the wildlife, and be more concerned about the average U.S. citizen who is getting killed by $4.15 a gallon, and doesn't even go to the ocean or Alaska to see those animals? Or should we save the wildlife, and just pay drastically high oil prices for the animals?

 

 

Personally, I feel that the animals don't matter. What are they here for? Just to look at, then be mauled by them? To look at in the ocean, then come back up, and find out you now have "The Bends". I feel that the animals can either become accustomed to it or just let them go extinct. What purposes does a Polar Bear or an Elk have that makes me want to keep me alive. What does a stingray do that makes me want to pay 4 dollars to go across town? Nothing, and that is what I believe in.

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Breaking Bohan

Ronnyboy - what happened to those handsome chaps in sweaters???

 

I just can't focus on your words without seeing them there ---- sad.gif

 

Please bring them back - and make yourself whole!

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Vercetti21

For a guy who likes the Jonas Brothers (gay), I'm surprised we actually agree on something.

 

I'm going to be a dick here for a second and say f*ck environmentalists. Who cares about the Alaskan or Ocean wildlife? No honestly - who f*cking cares? As you said, they're pretty to look at and that's about it. And if they're an endangered species, that makes their worth even less to us because we can't hunt or even touch them.

 

All this really comes down to is whether you want to be nice to animals or not. I say fine, I'll do what I can to avoid going near a polar bear's habitat - but if they're in the way of something we need, I say we don't yield to them. We're the dominate species in a dog-eat-dog world. We need to stop trying to play the nice guy and do what's going to be best for our own species, not theirs. I say that if they're in the way, they're destined to become extinct.

 

If these people really want to save endangered species, I'll gladly pay a few extra taxes to put them in a zoo or something if it means we rely less on foreign oil. I can just see it now - "Oh f*ck, Iran just closed off their oil to foreign markets and we're about to go into Great Depression II and possibly World War III, but f*ck it - at least we still have polar bears!"

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Ronnyboy

Finally someone who is serious and agrees. But I love how people want to go see these animals, and they can't f*cking afford it. "Oh, the gas prices make the trip o expensive. But hey, atleast they are there so, that is good." I mean, seriously, if we can't afford a trip to see these animals, then what is the purpose? I mean, if we do go into a Depression, I can imagine this, "Hey I know it sucks we can't afford food to eat, or have a house. We have to stand in food lines for 3 hours to get a glass half filled with watery soup. I also know suicide rates are high, but hey, the animals are still here!"

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Mad Tony

Drill, drill, drill! The less foreign oil the better.

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Mike Tequeli

You're all retarded.

 

I'll form a proper response when you get back to me.

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Reincarnated

 

Drill, drill, drill! The less foreign oil the better.

 

[sarcasm]Yes! Drill! Drill! Drill! Destroy America's natural beauty and environment! Drill! Drill! Drill! Because drilling will make a dent in the dependence of foreign oil! Drill! Drill! Drill! Because we shouldn't focus on renewable resources! Drill! Drill! Drill! Destroy entire ecosystems to feed our oil addiction with another source instead of a foreign source! Drill! Drill! Drill! Because destroying ecosystems won't affect other ecosystems and won't cause a domino effect, AMIRIGHT!?[/sarcasm]

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Mad Tony
Drill, drill, drill! The less foreign oil the better.

 

[sarcasm]Yes! Drill! Drill! Drill! Destroy America's natural beauty and environment! Drill! Drill! Drill! Because drilling will make a dent in the dependence of foreign oil! Drill! Drill! Drill! Because we shouldn't focus on renewable resources! Drill! Drill! Drill! Destroy entire ecosystems to feed our oil addiction with another source instead of a foreign source! Drill! Drill! Drill! Because destroying ecosystems won't affect other ecosystems and won't cause a domino effect, AMIRIGHT!?[/sarcasm]

Alaska isn't the only state with natural beauty and yes, it will make a dent in the dependence of foreign oil.

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Reincarnated

 

Drill, drill, drill! The less foreign oil the better.

 

[sarcasm]Yes! Drill! Drill! Drill! Destroy America's natural beauty and environment! Drill! Drill! Drill! Because drilling will make a dent in the dependence of foreign oil! Drill! Drill! Drill! Because we shouldn't focus on renewable resources! Drill! Drill! Drill! Destroy entire ecosystems to feed our oil addiction with another source instead of a foreign source! Drill! Drill! Drill! Because destroying ecosystems won't affect other ecosystems and won't cause a domino effect, AMIRIGHT!?[/sarcasm]

Alaska isn't the only state with natural beauty and yes, it will make a dent in the dependence of foreign oil.

Oh, drilling will make a big difference huh? "For starters, the lead time for oil exploration takes years. Even if offshore drilling areas opened up tomorrow, experts say it would take at least 10 years to realize any significant production. And even then, they say, the U.S. contribution to the overall global oil market would not be enough to make a significant dent in the price of gas."

 

"The EIA also researched the impact of crude oil production in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. To put it in scale, ANWR is believed to have a potential for 10.4 billion barrels of crude oil, a little more than half of the projected potential for the offshore areas McCain has proposed opening.

 

ANWR would add only 1 to 2 percent to the overall world oil supply, said Philip Budzig, who authored the report for the EIA. The report concluded drilling there would subtract anywhere from 41 cents to $1.44 per barrel of crude oil around 2025. That translates to a savings of just a couple pennies per gallon at the pump. Again, in 2025."

 

"“Obviously, if you do offshore drilling now it’s not going to give any short term help on the supply of oil,” said Paul A. Samuelson, a professor of economics at MIT and winner of the 1970 Nobel Prize in Economics. “That’s far away.”

 

“Getting oil from the tundra and arctic isn’t going to solve the problem,” Samuelson said, adding that the potential for environmental damage needs to be factored in as well."

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/ar...n/19/MCCAINOIL/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/ar...n/19/MCCAINOIL/) (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/ar...n/19/MCCAINOIL/) (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/ar...n/19/MCCAINOIL/) (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/19/MCCAINOIL/)

 

AND

 

our good friend president Bush "Offshore drilling won't produce more oil tomorrow, will change psychology" http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ca_1216140526 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ca_1216140526) (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ca_1216140526) (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ca_1216140526) (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ca_1216140526)

 

LOL

Edited by Reincarnated

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Vercetti21

See, this is what I love about environmentalists. They try to justify that you shouldn't drill off the coast or in Alaska because it will destroy the ecosystem, yet at the same time they realize that we need to get our asses the f*ck off of foreign oil (and no oil, eventually) without providing any other alternative.

 

Truth is, I'm all for researching better fuel sources, whether it be nuclear, wind, solar, etc. I'll gladly pay those taxes, but the transition over to a better fuel source doesn't come overnight. We're looking at at least a decade before our cars and economy are running on cleaner, more efficient energy. And this is where Obama and the Democrats' "plan" fails, IMO. "The answer is to research new energy sources so that we no longer run on oil!" Great, dumbass, like we didn't know that already. The real question is, what are we going to do about rising gas prices in the meantime? Sit on our asses and watch the economy get even worse, or sacrifice some eye candy for cheaper oil? Even if it does take some time to actually get to the oil, it's doing something. And anyone who complains about that is like the lazy kid in the back of class who doesn't do his work, while nagging everyone else for doing it wrong.

 

And @Mike: Way to back up that claim there, buddy.

Edited by Vercetti21

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Reincarnated

 

The real question is, what are we going to do about rising gas prices in the meantime? Sit on our asses and watch the economy get even worse, or sacrifice some eye candy for cheaper oil?

Read my post above yours. IN 2025, WE'LL BE LUCKY TO SAVE 1-2 PENNIES AT THE PUMP IF WE DRILL.

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Vercetti21

 

The real question is, what are we going to do about rising gas prices in the meantime? Sit on our asses and watch the economy get even worse, or sacrifice some eye candy for cheaper oil?

Read my post above yours. IN 2025, WE'LL BE LUCKY TO SAVE 1-2 PENNIES AT THE PUMP IF WE DRILL.

First of all, get off my nuts for a second. I began typing that post minutes before yours came along, so it's not that I didn't read.

 

Second, that information is outdated. The last time anyone even analyzed the amount of oil in and beneath Alaska was over ten years ago: http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/e...-drilling_N.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/e...-drilling_N.htm) (http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/e...-drilling_N.htm) (http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2008-07-13-offshore-drilling_N.htm)

 

So what does this mean? I say we at least look at what we got before giving a resounding "no" in saying that it won't affect the economy. Maybe I was a bit too fast in jumping on the bandwagon and saying we should drill, but like I said, it's making a move. It's doing something.

 

The biggest criticism for offshore drilling is that it would take around 8 or 9 years to begin drilling. Funny thing is, people were saying that same thing 8-9 years ago. Look where we could've been now.

Edited by Vercetti21

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Ronnyboy
Funny thing is, people were saying that same thing 8-9 years ago. Look where we could've been now.

Yeah, same goes for Alternative fuels. People say that it will take 10 years to drill for oil, but how long will it take to create a new, practical fuel. Surely we can't survive on oil alone, but we have to many choices, options, and problems with transferring to another fuel source. It may take 20+ years to change our fuel, which is OK, but we need something at the moment to hold us over. Unfortunately, everyone bitched about how we need to action now, when we may f*ck up the process in doing so.

 

So yeah, let's not have vehicles, or pay $10 a gallon because we need to a new fuel source which will come in just 10 more years!

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Breaking Bohan

 

Funny thing is, people were saying that same thing 8-9 years ago. Look where we could've been now.

Yeah, same goes for Alternative fuels. People say that it will take 10 years to drill for oil, but how long will it take to create a new, practical fuel. Surely we can't survive on oil alone, but we have to many choices, options, and problems with transferring to another fuel source. It may take 20+ years to change our fuel, which is OK, but we need something at the moment to hold us over. Unfortunately, everyone bitched about how we need to action now, when we may f*ck up the process in doing so.

 

So yeah, let's not have vehicles, or pay $10 a gallon because we need to a new fuel source which will come in just 10 more years!

I'm w/ Ron in that it is a poor argument to say "it will take 7 years before we get any oil from our own country/new-wells, etc." so we should "go green" or "invest in alternatives" --- I think that is already being done ... I'm not sure what the hell "Going green" entails exactly, but you can be damn sure it's going to take a long time!

 

Washington cant do anything very quickly - except piss away our money - so I don't think it's realistic to assume that we can not drill here, but somehow become energy independent, and not be paying $10/gal by the time they finally get things done.

 

EDIT:

You know ... drilling at home is "change" I can believe in!

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Oogie

 

I feel that the animals can either become accustomed to it or just let them go extinct. What purposes does a Polar Bear or an Elk have that makes me want to keep me alive. What does a stingray do that makes me want to pay 4 dollars to go across town? Nothing, and that is what I believe in.

 

That is some of the stupidest sh*t i've read here in a long time.

"What does a stingray do that makes me want to pay 4 dollars to go across town? Nothing, and that is what I believe in. " go america !

Sounds like a stupid redneck slogan dozingoff.gif

 

 

 

 

Drill, drill, drill! The less foreign oil the better.

 

[sarcasm]Yes! Drill! Drill! Drill! Destroy America's natural beauty and environment! Drill! Drill! Drill! Because drilling will make a dent in the dependence of foreign oil! Drill! Drill! Drill! Because we shouldn't focus on renewable resources! Drill! Drill! Drill! Destroy entire ecosystems to feed our oil addiction with another source instead of a foreign source! Drill! Drill! Drill! Because destroying ecosystems won't affect other ecosystems and won't cause a domino effect, AMIRIGHT!?[/sarcasm]

 

Sadly most people dont care about the consequences, what they want is cheap gas, and they want it now. Even if it means destroying the environment and killing wildlife, as long as they get a few pennies back in their wallet whatsthat.gif

You want to save on gas ? Stop taking your cars to go 2 miles away to buy milk.

 

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Brownie89

I totally agree with Oogie - although I'd like to add something into the equation. This all stems down to the "War on Terror". America shot it's self in the foot biting the hand that "fed" (or at least provided most of the worlds oil) if they hadn't invaded pretty much all of the Middle East the rise in oil prices would most probably be non-existant. I'm from the UK and I'm not blaming any of the US citizens for this, I don't hold any of you responsible for it as I'm sure most of the country is as opposed to the war as we are here these days. I think we're just as bad in the UK for joining in with it all and should never have tried to fight a war that wasn't ours. We try too hard to be as powerful as the US and so end up pretty much playing a game of "follow the leader". If everyone pulled out of the Middle East I'm sure the prices would lower again at least to some degree. I could go on forever but you'd all get bored so I'm gonna stop. I'll just add that I do care an awful lot about nature conservation especially when other means are available these days, if we can protect a species that my children (one day tounge.gif ) may otherwise not be able to see then I'm all for it. I'm blabbering on now though so I'll give it a rest for a bit!

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Otter

Let me offer this tidbit of information:

 

Gas prices will never go down. Ever. So no matter how much drilling is down, all it does is offset the inevitable.

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Mad Tony
Let me offer this tidbit of information:

 

Gas prices will never go down. Ever. So no matter how much drilling is down, all it does is offset the inevitable.

They're going down right now. Yeah, eventually they probably will climb higher and higher but for the time being they're falling, due to lower demand.

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Ronnyboy

 

I feel that the animals can either become accustomed to it or just let them go extinct. What purposes does a Polar Bear or an Elk have that makes me want to keep me alive. What does a stingray do that makes me want to pay 4 dollars to go across town? Nothing, and that is what I believe in.

 

That is some of the stupidest sh*t i've read here in a long time.

"What does a stingray do that makes me want to pay 4 dollars to go across town? Nothing, and that is what I believe in. " go america !

Sounds like a stupid redneck slogan dozingoff.gif

It may sound redneck, but I am making a point. When the f*ck are you ever going to see these animals, how are they going to ever help you? We all just look at them in pictures, and be mystified, but then realized that this animal is useless and in no way helps me or the world. If the animal is in the way of what I want, I will think, "Will killing this (let's say Elk) Elk, affect my life, others around me, or the future?" Of course not, it is an un-needed animal in our lives, it produces nothing worth while, and is what is causing us to waste all of our money, because we don't want to change our ways.

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Oogie

 

I feel that the animals can either become accustomed to it or just let them go extinct. What purposes does a Polar Bear or an Elk have that makes me want to keep me alive. What does a stingray do that makes me want to pay 4 dollars to go across town? Nothing, and that is what I believe in.

 

Of course not, it is an un-needed animal in our lives, it produces nothing worth while, and is what is causing us to waste all of our money, because we don't want to change our ways.

 

 

We are losing much more than just money, and it is because we dont want to change our ways.

People are dumb and lazy, they dont want to change their life habbits to save something that doesn't affect them. The same way people throw their garbage everywhere in the street because it "doesn't affect them". We live in a society where people want to be free of any responsability toward their environment confused.gif . Surely you dont see the direct consequences of destroying some place to get cheap oil, but i think it's that way of thinking that led us to the sh*tty world we live in right now.

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Mike Tequeli

 

I feel that the animals can either become accustomed to it or just let them go extinct. What purposes does a Polar Bear or an Elk have that makes me want to keep me alive. What does a stingray do that makes me want to pay 4 dollars to go across town? Nothing, and that is what I believe in.

 

That is some of the stupidest sh*t i've read here in a long time.

"What does a stingray do that makes me want to pay 4 dollars to go across town? Nothing, and that is what I believe in. " go america !

Sounds like a stupid redneck slogan dozingoff.gif

It may sound redneck, but I am making a point. When the f*ck are you ever going to see these animals, how are they going to ever help you? We all just look at them in pictures, and be mystified, but then realized that this animal is useless and in no way helps me or the world. If the animal is in the way of what I want, I will think, "Will killing this (let's say Elk) Elk, affect my life, others around me, or the future?" Of course not, it is an un-needed animal in our lives, it produces nothing worth while, and is what is causing us to waste all of our money, because we don't want to change our ways.

You could say that about so many things and people its f*cking baffling. You're reasoning is stupid, not giving a sh*t isn't the key to solving our problems. What I'm trying to say is that you're an idiot and I'm not really sure I can expand on it since you seem to believe that wildlife is useless since it doesn't work for our personal entertainment. Think of it logically, you are accusing animals of not contributing to the world, nothing contributes anything to the Planet, whatsoever. This is because what you consider contribution is entirely subjective, for example what have we ever contributed to the planet?

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Ronnyboy
I feel that the animals can either become accustomed to it or just let them go extinct. What purposes does a Polar Bear or an Elk have that makes me want to keep me alive. What does a stingray do that makes me want to pay 4 dollars to go across town? Nothing, and that is what I believe in.

 

That is some of the stupidest sh*t i've read here in a long time.

"What does a stingray do that makes me want to pay 4 dollars to go across town? Nothing, and that is what I believe in. " go america !

Sounds like a stupid redneck slogan dozingoff.gif

It may sound redneck, but I am making a point. When the f*ck are you ever going to see these animals, how are they going to ever help you? We all just look at them in pictures, and be mystified, but then realized that this animal is useless and in no way helps me or the world. If the animal is in the way of what I want, I will think, "Will killing this (let's say Elk) Elk, affect my life, others around me, or the future?" Of course not, it is an un-needed animal in our lives, it produces nothing worth while, and is what is causing us to waste all of our money, because we don't want to change our ways.

You could say that about so many things and people its f*cking baffling. You're reasoning is stupid, not giving a sh*t isn't the key to solving our problems. What I'm trying to say is that you're an idiot and I'm not really sure I can expand on it since you seem to believe that wildlife is useless since it doesn't work for our personal entertainment. Think of it logically, you are accusing animals of not contributing to the world, nothing contributes anything to the Planet, whatsoever. This is because what you consider contribution is entirely subjective, for example what have we ever contributed to the planet?

We have allowed our selves to create things for our planet, and changed it, better or for worse, and as humans, I believe that we should be allowed to run the planet. We can re-arrange, re-manage, and run life on this planet. We have the power to end all life on the planet, or to save it. But, we need our resources for now, and if animals are in the way, we have the power to move them. With in 20 years, oil will be a thing of the past. We can then stop drilling, and let wildlife back into our world, but know we have to move it aside. I am not saying kill it all off, I am saying to move it, and allow it to take over after we do not need to affect it.

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Otter

You vastly overestimate the competency of humanity, Ronny.

 

Gas rose to over $5 in some states over the weekend; it's only going to climb. Find an alternative now, or you'll have no-one to blame aside from yourself for paying stupid prices for gasoline.

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Breaking Bohan
You vastly overestimate the competency of humanity, Ronny.

 

Gas rose to over $5 in some states over the weekend; it's only going to climb. Find an alternative now, or you'll have no-one to blame aside from yourself for paying stupid prices for gasoline.

It's true, except now this company wants to pay people to put giant windmills on their property.

 

We're trying to fight it ... why?

 

Would you like to live next to a giant gaddamend windmill that's making noise and obstructing your view/light 24/7!?

.... Hell, no.

 

Now these companies want simple farmers to sign a 20 year lease that pays farmers/landowners $8,000/year for 20years ... (then I don't know what happens to the damned thing). Many people will probably want to take the deal ... but they're inconsiderate of their neighbors sad.gif

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Otter

I don't know what you mean about windmills. I'll have to check that out.

 

I'm talking about personal situations; in a recession like this, it's time to start hedging your own bets, stashing money in private locations, and stop depending on expensive resources.

 

People will tell you that it's just not possible; these people will be the first victims of the situation. If you're unwilling to change the way you do things, you're going to eventually pay 8$ for gas, and continue to drive an hour to and from work everyday where you make minimum f*cking wage.

 

Just look at what went down today - anyone with savings tied up in Lehman bros is f*cked.

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Breaking Bohan

 

I don't know what you mean about windmills.  I'll have to check that out.

 

I'm talking about personal situations; in a recession like this, it's time to start hedging your own bets, stashing money in private locations, and stop depending on expensive resources.

 

People will tell you that it's just not possible; these people will be the first victims of the situation.  If you're unwilling to change the way you do things, you're going to eventually pay 8$ for gas, and continue to drive an hour to and from work everyday where you make minimum f*cking wage.

 

Just look at what went down today - anyone with savings tied up in Lehman bros is f*cked.

See that's why I just don't work. By the time you pay for transportation, insurance, taxes, etc ... you barely break even working min-wage - - - but now I'm about to graduate and have no work experience (BALLS) ... so now I'm going to have to bite the bullet and get a job where I'll be losing $ (probably).

 

I enjoy being lazy ... hell and balls!

 

EDIT:

PS. All Investment banks are going straight down the sh*tTER - this subprime debt is going to sink USA economy -

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