Mission Help (RULES)

[lil weasel]

I've read through the Mission Help 'rules' three times during the last 2 weeks.

 

I am sure that they need to be Re-evaluated, Edited, and Reposted in a condensed manner. Too much to read through that does not apply.

 

Wolf68k this really needs to be done.

 

A banner should be put at the top of the forum clearly stating that

"NO DISCUSSION OF MISSIONS IS ALLOWED, Only a Request To DO, and A reply that it is DONE."

 

(As I have been informed that all discussions belong in Game Play Forum. Ok maybe not that specific, but:)

i.e.

 

...Jul 23 2008, 16:48...however when SNP are posted they are requests for a member to complete the missions. They are not posting to spark a conversation about why they cant do it or anything else for that matter, there are many other area's of the forums this can be done.

SNP posts should really only be posted in by the person willing to do it.

emphasis added..

 

Also,

I don't think it is the business of mere members to chastise other members for violations of the mish-mash rules as listed. Just punch that REPORT Button and let the Moderators take care of it. They can do a better job without causing a word war, which is also easier to stop by NOT REPLYing to Flame.

 

i.e.

...Posted: Jul 23 2008, 16:15...I'm seriously fed up of you replying to SnP topics without making any significant contribution and by significant, I mean actually doing the SnPs. If you cannot do the SnPs, stop posting in SnP topics. This type of behaviour is frowned upon in the MH forum and considered as spam, so please take note of this ...

 

Seems that 'I'm On It' is the valid response as listed in the rules, only because of its repetition in them..

Edited August 12, 2008 by lil weasel

[JAJ]

 

I've read through the Mission Help 'rules' three times during the last 2 weeks.

 

I am sure that they need to be Re-evaluated, Edited, and Reposted in a condensed manner.

You may have missed this part about 'mission questions': Mission Help is not just about doing SnP's.

Welcome to Mission Help

Have a question about mission and need some suggestions or need a mission done for you or maybe you're the helping time and just want to pitch in and help out around here. Then you've come to the right place.

and this part

Getting mission help without getting the mission done for you

Easy, just create a topic and tell everyone what problems you're having with what mission. It's a good idea to use the mission name as your topic title, don't just leave it as "Help" or some else vague.

 

 

A banner should be put at the top of the forum clearly stating that

"NO DISCUSSION OF MISSIONS IS ALLOWED, Only a Request To DO, and A reply that it is DONE."

 

(As I have been informed that all discussions belong in Game Play Forum.)

Based on the above quote by wolfe68k, this would not be a good idea as discussion of how to do missions is allowed.

 

 

Wolf68k this really needs to be done.

Yeah, the rules could be worked on & maybe condensed.

 

 

I don't think it is the business of mere members to chastise other members for violations of the mish-mash rules as listed. Just punch that REPORT Button and let the Moderators take care of it. They can do a better job without causing a word war, which is also easier to stop by NOT REPLYing to Flame.

 

'I'm On It' is the valid response as listed in the rules, only because of its repetion in them..

I'm all for not seeing any more 'word wars' & think that "Just punch that REPORT Button and let the Moderators take care of it" is a good idea.

The posting format used to be important for collecting the SnP stats but the the stats aren't collected anymore & it's been a long time since I've seen it mentioned or enforced by the moderating team.

[cacarla]

I agree with both Lil Weasel and JAJ in the aspect of avoiding Word wars.. I hope the moderators are looking into this and immediately LOCK a topic which has a abusive language used by a third person(apart from the Helper and Requester) in an SnP topic. This helps everybody..

[Tornado Rex]

(As I have been informed that all discussions belong in Game Play Forum.)

By whom?

 

 

The posting format used to be important for collecting the SnP stats but the the stats aren't collected anymore & it's been a long time since I've seen it mentioned or enforced by the moderating team.

See the bold text. We only used the format for quick(er) stats tracking. We no longer do that so it's not a big deal anymore.

 

 

I am sure that they need to be Re-evaluated, Edited, and Reposted in a condensed manner.

They get the point across. That's what they're there for. It's much ado about nothing in my opinion. In other words, it's far too much time and work to do something that's not needed.

 

And just to clarify. This is Mission Help. Therefore anything having to do with needing help on a mission goes. Whether it is having someone do it for you or just asking a question about it. Anything random about a mission (such as "omgz this is so cool in <insert mission name here>" etc) should go in gameplay.

[*asim*]

I agree with JAJ on and his prespective.

 

The "Mission Help" forum is not just about doing SnP's for people, and getting them done for you.

 

The mission help forum is about sharing your problems with others and others solving them for you, and discussing them amongst each other.

 

But all that discussion that is going on in SnP topics, is definetly not necessary and it can take place in a new topic.

 

SnP topics are supposed to be replied to by only the person who is willing to actually help out by doing the SnP.

[Girish]

lil weasel, one thing that I'd like to point out is that you had been repeatedly told not to post in SnP topics by me and crazyanurag. Yet, you kept on doing the same thing over and over again. If only you had taken the cue the first time, there wouldn't have been a need for any kind of word-war in the first place.

[lil weasel]

What I am looking to have done is a weeding out of the posted rules.

There is a lot of 'stuff' posted in the Rules that simply does not apply.

 

A jumble of information not in a concise readable order with references to items that no longer have revelance.

 

For anyone to read through and understand the specifics takes more time than should be necessary. And some people still don't understand the intent.

 

Two classes of assistance,

1. [snp] where in the poster can't do it /or/ does not want to waste their time doing the mission

 

2. Persons who need Help on how to accomplish the mission on their own.

 

Helpers who offer advice on how to do it

and

Doers who play the game for the Poster.

 

Specific Posting Titles:

[snP] Mission name [v1/2]

by the number of miss titled postings ... people not only are not reading rules they don't even read the information above the forum.

 

where to go from here?

 

If you find a posting that is in the wrong place or does not agree with you. Don't reply (it only gets things hotter as it seems most people can't take criticism) Just use the REPORT to get it taken care of properly. Replying also makes it harder for the moderator to move it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Girish]

From what I have seen of the Mission Help forum, there was a time when the forum was very active and wolf68k used to keep track of the SnPs requested and completed. This was when the rules were enforced strictly on both the requester and the helper. There was also a time when the rules forced the helpers to wait for 1 hour between calling multiple SnPs. Also, GTASnP wasn't so advanced and didn't have many features at that time as a result of which it was required for the requesters to post what version of the game they had. But this was all back in 2006.

 

Now, the forum sees only a few requests per day. And the main reason it is requested not to post in SnP topics is that the SnP topics having replies in it tend to get ignored as the other helpers might think that the SnP has already been completed without bothering to look into the topic. This may result in the topic being ignored altogether and the requester would have to create a new topic for the same request. As said, this can be avoided if only helpers and requesters post in the SnP topics.

 

As for the non-SnP topics, it's okay to post mission tips for the OP, but not in a topic where the requester just wants a particular mission completed and get on with the rest of the game.

[lil weasel]

... the fear that a [snp] won't be done because of a non-player responding isn't necessary.

 

Watching the viewer count shows as little as 20 people looking at a topic that is not being done.

 

With so few [snp] being posted some of the Doers are circling like vultures ready to jump on any [snp] that shows its head. It is very unlikly that a mission will go undone by somebody merely because it has response.

 

I'm also aware that getting a pat-on-the-back for playing someone else's game is much more rewarding than playing the game start to finish on one's own.

 

I am sure some Doers do the mission and then look back to see if somebody else has already posted to it. In that sense, is it better to get it done quickly or wait until a Caller gets around to it and fails because of some quirk?

 

The usual problem is the lack of version info. I've tried to do some myself (completing three) and find a great number in the (contraband) V1.

 

No, I am not interested in 'adapting' my game files.

 

 

the origin of this topic is to get the Pinned Rules condensed with only relative current information. Discussion of what the rules and intent is, is OK by me.

Happy Thoughts to ya'all.

[Girish]

Watching the viewer count shows as little as 20 people looking at a topic that is not being done.

Give me one example of a topic where you have seen this. As I said before, this was only before 2006. And it's suggested not to post unnecessarily in SnP topic because SnP topics in the past have gone unnoticed and the requester has had to create a new topic for the same thing. This happened repeatedly and that is why posting in SnP topics without actually doing the SnP is frowned upon.

 

As far as changing the rules go, I don't think it is an immediate necessity. Tornado Rex has already summed it up pretty well. Even if someone is ignorant about the rules, it isn't a big deal anymore since no stats are maintained. It's good to follow the rules, but starting a topic by the mission name and just posting the savefile link also works equally fine.

[JAJ]

Quotes by lil weasel in the first post of this topic

 

...Jul 23 2008, 16:48...however when SNP are posted they are requests for a member to complete the missions. They are not posting to spark a conversation about why they cant do it or anything else for that matter, there are many other area's of the forums this can be done.

SNP posts should really only be posted in by the person willing to do it.

emphasis added..

 

Also,

I don't think it is the business of mere members to chastise other members for violations of the mish-mash rules as listed. Just punch that REPORT Button and let the Moderators take care of it. They can do a better job without causing a word war, which is also easier to stop by NOT REPLYing to Flame.

 

i.e.

...Posted: Jul 23 2008, 16:15...I'm seriously fed up of you replying to SnP topics without making any significant contribution and by significant, I mean actually doing the SnPs. If you cannot do the SnPs, stop posting in SnP topics. This type of behaviour is frowned upon in the MH forum and considered as spam, so please take note of this ...

@lil weasel: Please note the proper way to use quotes & please post who is quoted not just the date of the quote as in your original edited post in this topic (quoted above). Tornado Rex has asked "by whom?" & you have supplied quotes but not "by whom?".

If you don't already know, Tornado Rex is one of the Area Moderators for Mission Help (crazyanurag is the other). They run the Mission Help forum. Tornado Rex has said that the rules as they are "get the point across". I would think that persisting to get them "Re-evaluated, Edited, and Reposted in a condensed manner" is a dead issue - it's not going to be done. I think the bigger challenge would be to get the requesters to read the rules.

 

(As I have been informed that all discussions belong in Game Play Forum.)

By whom?

 

 

The posting format used to be important for collecting the SnP stats but the the stats aren't collected anymore & it's been a long time since I've seen it mentioned or enforced by the moderating team.

See the bold text. We only used the format for quick(er) stats tracking. We no longer do that so it's not a big deal anymore.

 

 

I am sure that they need to be Re-evaluated, Edited, and Reposted in a condensed manner.

They get the point across. That's what they're there for. It's much ado about nothing in my opinion. In other words, it's far too much time and work to do something that's not needed.

 

And just to clarify. This is Mission Help. Therefore anything having to do with needing help on a mission goes. Whether it is having someone do it for you or just asking a question about it. Anything random about a mission (such as "omgz this is so cool in <insert mission name here>" etc) should go in gameplay.

I'd like to add that some posters ask for a 'Helper' to do the mission(s) for them & also ask for tips. In this case it's is alright to post tips for doing the mission(s). If a player just asks for someone to do the mission(s) then 'tips' won't be necessary.

 

[cacarla]

I dont understand the need for this post.. What is the meaning you're trying to convey here Lil Weasel? As JAJ said, we should try and make the newbies of this forum to read the Original Rules of the Forums because if people dont follow the real rules, they wont even bother to look at the new "Condensed" rules as you say it. You're making an effort to enforce some discipline into the forum but the co-operation required is Nil. Sorry buddy.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2008 by cacarla

[radicell]

lil weasel: you obviously don't know the system of Mission Help well enough. It is quite simple, and frankly I'm quite bewildered as to how someone could mis-understand it.

 

Where did it say that discussion of missions is not allowed? That's exactly the point of Mission Help, to help and discuss missions with/for other players.

[Girish]

lil weasel: you obviously don't know the system of Mission Help well enough. It is quite simple, and frankly I'm quite bewildered as to how someone could mis-understand it.

 

Where did it say that discussion of missions is not allowed? That's exactly the point of Mission Help, to help and discuss missions with/for other players.

Actually, all this has stemmed from the fact that I told him to stop posting in SnP topics. It's quite clearly mentioned in the rules that only the requester and the helper can post in SnP topics where the only thing that the requester wants is to get the mission completed. lil weasel thought that the rules said that one can post mission tips in SnP topics when the requester hadn't even asked for them in the first place. Moreover, in most of the SnP topics he posted, I found him endorsing the use of an USB Gamepad instead of a keyboard. I wonder how that would make the mission easier since almost all the helpers complete SnPs using the keyboard-mouse combo.

[lil weasel]

 

In response as to who I quoted:

 

.WADDY..Jul 23 2008, 16:48...however when SNP are posted they are requests for a member to complete the missions. They are not posting to spark a conversation about why they cant do it or anything else for that matter, there are many other area's of the forums this can be done.

SNP posts should really only be posted in by the person willing to do it.

emphasis added..

 

 

.girishb..Posted: Jul 23 2008, 16:15...I'm seriously fed up of you replying to SnP topics without making any significant contribution and by significant, I mean actually doing the SnPs. If you cannot do the SnPs, stop posting in SnP topics. This type of behaviour is frowned upon in the MH forum and considered as spam, so please take note of this ...

Ok.. gang...

What I'm trying to get at is the 'rules' are not clear. When a person knows the subject they deal with they forget that not everyone will see it the same way. You guys 'grew up' with the rules as they developed. Now people are coming in cold and are required to read through (or give up) a lot of unnecessary

wording.

 

Kindly show me my error ... where is the part in the 'rules' about NOT posting help tips in a [snp]

 

I don't argue that the 'format' of doing is not a problem. It is simple and to the point. And, should they start handing out medals again it will make pulling together the stats easier.

 

I don't believe that any of you Doers will pass up a chance to play someone's game simply because there is already a response posting. You know you want to see who is doing it, and if they can't because of failure.

 

In the first topic I posted in girishb Freaked Out and frightend the kid by saying that my posting would get the whole [snp] thingy shut down(during which I noted some 50 viewers of the topic).

Now is that true? Would you allow the MH to be shut down merely because help (by not doing) was offered. The only frightening thing about offering (not doing) help is that the Doer wouldn't have a chance to play the game. I've seen where a person acutally asked how to do something being replyed to with a "Why don't you post it so I can do it for you."

 

Back to my Topic:

How hard is it to delete information no longer applicable?

How many real 'rules' can there be?

 

 

Enjoy... Have a Nice Day...

[Girish]

In the first topic I posted in girishb Freaked Out and frightend the kid by saying that my posting would get the whole [snp] thingy shut down(during which I noted some 50 viewers of the topic).

Now is that true? Would you allow the MH to be shut down merely because help (by not doing) was offered. The only frightening thing about offering (not doing) help is that the Doer wouldn't have a chance to play the game. I've seen where a person acutally asked how to do something being replyed to with a "Why don't you post it so I can do it for you."

I think you are talking about the total number of views the topic has had. Do you know that if I create a topic and view it 50 times, it'll show the view count as 50 even though nobody else has viewed that topic?

 

And I think you misinterpreted me. I only said that if people could pass the missions themselves, they won't be making SnP topics and there won't be a need for a separate Mission Help forum then. We could only make do with general SnP topics then like we do with GTA III and VC. People request SnPs only when they find it nearly impossible to do a particular mission or if they are having issues with their system due to which they are unable to complete the mission. Unless they specifically mention that they are looking for tips, there's no need for it. Just finish the SnP and that's about it.

 

 

The reason for the [sNP] at the start of the topic, is that the helpers can tell the SNP topics part from the people that are just asking for tips, suggestions, and what not for help with missions...that is after all what this forum is all about.

Does this tell you something? There's a reason why SnP topics are called so. People who only need tips or suggestions do not need to make SnP topics.

[Tornado Rex]

Ok weasel, let me put this as clearly as I can.

 

The rules are not going to be re-written (at least not by me). You are the first person in over two years who has had trouble understanding them. That seems pretty clear to me that they are just fine. Not to mention, as girishb has pointed out, we get maybe five requests per day around here now.

 

 

How hard is it to delete information no longer applicable?

It's not a matter of "hard". It's a matter of "point". I have better things to do then sit here and delete, condense, and re-write all the rules already in a topic that has worked perfectly fine for 2 years.