There Is Nothing Wrong With Eating Meat...

[Rhoda 6,113]

For as long as meat has existed as a food product, individuals have expressed the choice and/or belief not to eat it. While the diet of a vegetarian can be healthier than ever due to a wide range of replacement products, I want to raise the argument that eating meat is not murder. This opinion may indeed be biased (after all, I am not a vegetarian) but I believe meat is a nutritious part of the human diet, as well as a necessary one. This is also especially true when one considers the protein and iron that comes with a healthy portion of red or white meat, such as pork or fish. Furthermore, as long as livestock are treated well and are not put under undue stress and trauma I see no ethical problem with meat consumption.

 

This thread is not a call to burn vegetarians/meat-eaters alive, that is the last thing I want this thread to be a home for. Instead, I want to debate and discuss differing views on meat consumption regardless of whether you believe in the said dietary choice.

 

To add a counter argument to what I have said (and to eliminate personal bias) I do think that the way certain meats are produced is the problem itself, not the actual consumption. The conditions of many slaughterhouses are admittedly poor, and with the correct hygiene procedures the stigma of meat production could be greatly improved in terms of public opinion.

 

Please discuss, and keep it friendly.

[Struff Bunstridge 0]

I'm an avid meat eater, whereas my girlfriend eats it less regularly, and has in the past been full-blown vegan. I like nothing more than big lumps of meat in some kind of sauce, but also eat a lot of vegetarian meals if my girlfriend cooks them.

 

The recent television programmes from UK TV chefs like Jamie Oliver and Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall have done a lot to raise serious questions about the way meat is farmed and produced in this country, and have opened the eyes of me and doubtless hundreds of thousands of others as to the despicable profiteering techniques involved. Money-making will always be the main focus, particularly as farmers often get the sh*tty end of the stick in terms of profits, but there has to be some thought given towards the welfare of the animal; animal rights and human decency aside, it's a fact that well-bred and properly nurtured livestock simply taste better. I've no problem with spending a few quid more on an organic chicken, for example, if I know it's been looked after in life, and will taste amazing in death.

 

This is the main things that shocks me, with regards to cheap supermarket own-brand food, is the concept of MRM, or mechanically reclaimed meat:

 

 

4.3 MRM has been defined as:

 

. . . residual material, off bones, obtained by machines operating on auger, hydraulic or other pressure principles in such a manner that the cellular structure of the material is broken down sufficiently for it to flow in puree form from the bone. 3

 

In other words, once the main cuts of meat have been carved from the carcass, they then use a high-pressure hose to blast off and collect any residue they can, to form a sort of slurry, which is apparently most commonly found in cheap mass-produced sausages, pies and ready meals. There's a real risk this slurry, besides being absolutely f*cking disgusting, will contain bits of spinal cord or brain matter, the most common sources of BSE found amongst human sufferers.

 

Yuck.

[Hart 6]

Animals eat other animals. Its natural. Although there were herbivores, so being vegetarian is natural too. Nothing wrong either way, I love my bacon and my brothers a vegan!

[Rhoda 6,113]

I've just been reminded about my hate towards the quality of some meats. As you said Mr. Bunstridge, many processed goods and their production is simply awful. I feel instantly sick if I'm eating something like sausages and I find a lump of fat or gristle. I'm then put off from that particular item, which is why I praise Quorn. Quorn make fantastic meat substitutes such as Shepard's Pie and even those pork pies you see at football games.

[Machida 1]

White meats, fish and the occasional steak are the only thing you'll catch me eating. I won't touch processed meats and I keep my diet pretty basic, but in short, as long as my meat hasn't been tampered with I don't give two hoots if the animal was treated poorly or not.

[Vercetti21 14]

There's a Brazilian steakhouse not far from where I live, and if you have the cash, you get full, all-you-can-eat access to the meat bar or whatever the f*ck it's called. I've been there once or twice, and it's the best place to go if you like to just pig out. That is definitely the best meat I've ever had in my life, and after eating there I couldn't possibly imagine ever becoming a vegetarian. Mmm, barbeque pork ribs!

 

Also, I cannot f*cking stand Carlos Mencia, the quality of this video is sh*t, and I know we're trying to avoid any vegetarian hostility, but this is one thing I can actually stand listening to from this guy:

 

 

[1066ant 1]

I love meat it is excellent in all ways and has been a massive part of the human diet since pre-historic times.

 

 

but there has to be some thought given towards the welfare of the animal; animal rights and human decency aside, it's a fact that well-bred and properly nurtured livestock simply taste better.

 

In recent years, mostly due to Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall's show about chickens I have started to dislike cheap processed meat.

 

My family used to breed our own pork, and I must say the differance between TESCOs 2 for 1 and our own stuff was pretty large in both size and taste.

[Carbine23 18]

I can't live without meat. It's like my favorite food but my parents don't get it for me often because red meat is unhealthy. I usually eat a Boars Head Turkey Sandwhich for lunch on the weekdays. My dad gets steak for Monday dinners, and i occasionally have bratwurst, hot dogs or chicken cutlets on some other nights. There's a steakhouse nearby in another town and it's pretty cheap for a steakhouse unlike Peter Lugers. The steak is fantastic and i always order a Delmonico Ribeye from there. I hate that it can sometimes have a load of fat on the edges or middle, but it's delicious. Also i put on some steak sauce because that particular restaurant has good sauce unlike A1 steak sauce which tastes like garbage

 

Also Outback has a really good 7 to 9 oz. Fillet Mignon which melts in your mouth! It's so good yet i go there rarely. There's nothing wrong with meat, and it's good protein. It can bad if it's more on the raw side but as long as its cooked it should be fine. I don't get why people eat raw meat anyway. About a few months later while taking a crap, a large tapeworm will be sticking out of your ass!

[Chickstick 8]

What annoys me relating to meat is the hypocrisy which is common in a lot of people in our country, in that they won't touch meat obtained via hunting or shooting because it is "cruel", but will buy meat from supermarkets which has been force fed and never seen daylight. Obviously as a keen shooter myself I'm a bit biased about this but some of the reactions I've got from people are, to be perfectly honest, a bit perplexing. There's a few people who refuse to have anything to do with me now due to my involvment with blood sports, even though we got on perfectly before.

 

While I see no harm in minimising the suffering of an animal that will be eventually be eaten, I would consider the business staying in the black more important, as people depend on it. And let's face it, they're only animals.

[1066ant 1]

What annoys me relating to meat is the hypocrisy which is common in a lot of people in our country, in that they won't touch meat obtained via hunting or shooting because it is "cruel", but will buy meat from supermarkets which has been force fed and never seen daylight.

It annoys me how they will turn down hunted meat, thats just a waste, an animal has died and they refuse to even eat the thing!

Despite the fact it would at least died for a reason.

[K^2 2,047]

 

Animals eat other animals. Its natural. Although there were herbivores, so being vegetarian is natural too. Nothing wrong either way, I love my bacon and my brothers a vegan!

We have been omnivores for at least a Million years. We have biologically adapted to a diet consisting of meat and plants. There are several basic amino acids present in meat that are not common in most vegetables. Our ancestors have lost the ability to produce these because they were plentiful in their meat-supplemented diet. The only way to be a vegetarian and be healthy is to cheat nature by carefully balancing various beans and grains to get the amino acids you need. It is very far from being natural.

[Vercetti21 14]

We have been omnivores for at least a Million years. We have biologically adapted to a diet consisting of meat and plants. There are several basic amino acids present in meat that are not common in most vegetables. Our ancestors have lost the ability to produce these because they were plentiful in their meat-supplemented diet. The only way to be a vegetarian and be healthy is to cheat nature by carefully balancing various beans and grains to get the amino acids you need. It is very far from being natural.

 

Sorry. I couldn't resist.

[Rhoda 6,113]

Animals eat other animals. Its natural. Although there were herbivores, so being vegetarian is natural too. Nothing wrong either way, I love my bacon and my brothers a vegan!

We have been omnivores for at least a Million years. We have biologically adapted to a diet consisting of meat and plants. There are several basic amino acids present in meat that are not common in most vegetables. Our ancestors have lost the ability to produce these because they were plentiful in their meat-supplemented diet. The only way to be a vegetarian and be healthy is to cheat nature by carefully balancing various beans and grains to get the amino acids you need. It is very far from being natural.

So judging by what you've said, you're implying that this diet of plants (and not animals which is supposedly unnatural) can give Man the abstinence he needs to not only live, but live healthily. I don't believe that millions of years ago Man could have done this as it's clear plants do not contain sufficient irons and proteins. However, if you can state otherwise, I'd be happy to listen.

[K^2 2,047]

Are you reading the same post you are quoting? Because I cannot figure out how in the world you twisted the above to imply that eating meat is unnatural and that... You know what, I'm not even sure what the heck you are saying. Care to restate?

[Rhoda 6,113]

Sure, I may have minced that.

 

 

There are several basic amino acids present in meat that are not common in most vegetables. Our ancestors have lost the ability to produce these because they were plentiful in their meat-supplemented diet. The only way to be a vegetarian and be healthy is to cheat nature by carefully balancing various beans and grains to get the amino acids you need.

 

From what I gather, you've provided the argument that eating meat has changed the very way Man has evolved. Because of our meat consumption, are you saying that now do not possess the more sophisticated digestive systems that we once did?

 

And looking back, wow, that post I made before this made no sense, sorry about that, I suppose I ran with the words I chose to read.

[K^2 2,047]

It's not the digestive system. We can still digest things, but most plants do not possess all the amino acids we need. They simply aren't there, so it doesn't matter if we can digest them or not.

 

Every single amino acid can be synthesized. Every animal will have metabolic pathways to produce amino acids it can't get from its food. However, if animal's diet changes, it might lose ability to produce certain kinds of amino acids. It is entirely possible that we have ancestors, really far back, that were purely vegetarian. Somewhere along the way, they started eating animal life as well. Probably starting with insects, and working their way up to rodents, lizards, and birds, then finally starting to hunt things bigger then themselves.

 

This was a very graduate process, in which humans started eating more and more food that already had certain groups of amino acids. This meant that a human with a genetic defect preventing production of one of these amino acids would no longer die. And therefore, natural selection stopped working on the pathways producing these. Pathways that are not selected for eventually break down. Thus, for example, people of the North, who had no selection for production of dark pigment eventually became white, blond, and blue eyed. Based on the same principal, our ancestors lost ability to produce certain amino acids, and became entirely dependent on animal food to get them.

 

Now, the interesting thing is that some plants have some of these amino acids. But not a single one has all of them in sufficient quantities. This is why if you want to have a vegetarian diet, it has to be carefully balanced, to have enough of each plant group possessing the amino acids you need.

 

By the way, in case you don't know, amino acids are the building blocks for proteins. There are only about 20, and something like 8 of them humans can't synthesize. Without these, certain proteins cannot be built, and proteins are used for everything. They hold cells together, they control speeds of chemical reactions, they help transcribe DNA. You limit ability for proper proteins to be built, and your entire system starts malfunctioning. It is especially dangerous for a growing body, which is why it is often recommended to feed children meat even in vegetarian families. As I said earlier, it is entirely possible to be perfectly healthy on vegetables alone, but you really need to know what you are doing.

 

 

[Rhoda 6,113]

So does this raise the question that it's easier to be a vegetarian now than ever before thanks to artificially produced foods such as soya and Quorn? There's so many substitutes for meat that replicate taste and even texture, so much so it's hard to tell the difference.

[K^2 2,047]

Soy, in principal, does have all amino acids, but they aren't balanced right. It's going to be easiest to properly replace meat with soy properly supplemented with other plant foods, though.

 

But yeah, right now you can go vegetarian with fewer health risks than ever before. In fact, we might have rolled over to the point where you can stay just as, if not more, healthy on plant foods. Especially, if you consider all the growth hormones you aren't getting with your meat. This is also a good time because the information on proper diet is easy enough to obtain.

 

Though, personally, I think that artificial muscle fiber is what we should really be trying to achieve. It will already be the kind of thing that our body needs, and we won't have to kill animals for it. Of course, the real problem are the nuts that think that any kind of artificially enhanced food is bad for you.

[Rhoda 6,113]

I simply assumed that meat eating was natural as it seemed to me that the desire to hunt and kill food was the primal urge Man possessed. With what you're saying, I'm gathering that the human race is now more dependant on artificial foods. Not only that but we are at our weakest in terms of what foods we rely on. Many of us have indeed become essentially lazy when it comes to nutrients and food in general, always looking for the easier way.

With meats, there's been a lot of controversy over what's included. The McDonald's slogan for it's hamburgers may well be "100% beef", but beef may include the scrapings from bones and vital organs that are also used for processed goods such as sausages. Why is it so hard to acquire good meat for all products, and is it morally unethical to breed animals purely for consumption?

[K^2 2,047]

No matter how easy you make it to breed animals for food, good meat will always be more expensive than bad meat. It's just how it works.

 

Now, with artificial meat, we might have some progress in that. It can simply become unprofitable to grow anything but prime meat.

 

And there is nothing really wrong with becoming dependent on artificial stuff.

[Rhoda 6,113]

Okay, but isn't there a danger that humans in terms of dietary needs and adaptability may become dependent on artificial meat? Granted, this meat is made out of many vegetable extracts that are considered good for us but as we've agreed, humans have evolved to such a point where they can no longer extract the abstinence needed from many plants, despite being able to in the past. Could this not happen with existing foods and the said artificial meats?

[Lochie_old 5]

I believe that we give animals shelter, food and a place to sleep for a reason. All we ask in return is that we can harvest them. Sure its a soul, like if people harvested kittens it'd be wrong. But the thing is that cows and such provide far too many resources for us NOT to use them.

 

If kittens provided enough material for us to harvest, then everyone would be doing it. But since they don't thats why we have cows and other livestock.

[Rhoda 6,113]

Interesting. So your point is that so long as animals provide many functions and resources that benefit humans, we have the right to harvest them, essentially? I do agree, but I fear many won't because even though animals don't have human rights for obvious reasons, many believe that any animal should be treated with respect and with importance. As much as I hate to say this, and I don't want to give out the wrong message, but animals are more expandable and can be spared more than a human can.

[Lochie_old 5]

Exactly.

 

A life is a life, but these lives aren't taken in vein unlike human lives are. They are done humanly and the animal experiences no suffering.

[Machida 1]

The McDonald's slogan for it's hamburgers may well be "100% beef", but beef may include the scrapings from bones and vital organs that are also used for processed goods such as sausages.

I wouldn't worry about that. If a meat is claiming to be 100% beef, then it has to be 100% beef. Beef is all meat, you won't find anything else in it that isn't supposed to be there.

 

Im a livestock farmer of 24 years, if anyone has any querries about the farming process I'll do my best to answer.

[Rhoda 6,113]

It just seemed like a loophole; they are technically telling the truth, scrapings are beef, after all. Same with a slogan "100% chicken". Sure, it's all chicken, but it doesn't have to be any choice cut. If it was to be all choice cut, it'd be "100% chicken breast", surely?

[georgia. 0]

I think that as humans we are designed to exist on a diet consisting of foods which provide all the nutrients and goodness we need for our bodies to function healthily, this includes meat. Granted, we can get products such as essential fatty acids from foods such as flax and sesame seeds and soya beans are high in protein but I don't believe that meat should be totally removed from anyones diet as I don't think that supplements and other foods can fully replace meat.

 

For most vegetarians it is a case of not agreeing about the way that animals are treated and refusing to eat something which is killed in an inhumane way. I fully agree with that point and I personally have considered becoming vegetarian after being exposed to the disgusting ways that some animals are bred and killed. However I don't believe that not eating meat at all is the answer, I'd much rather buy free range and organic meats that I know have had decents lives than cutting meat out altogether and letting my diet suffer.

 

[Machida 1]

Yeah, that's the thing. Although it will be 100% meat they don't need to say where that meat came from. I'm sure in McDonald's case it will be shoulder or shin meat.

 

But here in Britain at least the standards in which cattle are kept are extremely good. It's likely that McDonalds will have got their beef from the very same cattle that produces the prime steak you eat in restaurants. The only difference is while the restaurant's buy the prime cuts, McDonald will buy the cheaper cuts. It will be from the same animal though. That's why it's important to look for the British beef logo on any meats.

 

If it's not British then you're probably eating a Zebu.

Edited August 12, 2008 by Machida

[Juice By Kayla Marie 3]

I use to be a vegetarian, I now eat Chicken though and turkey on holidays [thanksgiving].. I guess hamburgers once in a great while [like 4th of July.]

I don't think it's wrong as long as you're not eating like cats and dogs. :|

Short reply, I'm tired, 8 am, bed time.

[Typhus 1,341]

Eating meat is not wrong. These animals are bred into a life of servitude and death. And it shows in the taste. They're good to eat, they make nice food. I don't think that sentimentality should figure into matters of the stomach.