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Stefan.

Alexandr Solzhenitsyn

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TFatseas

You still haven't gave me ONE source.

 

 

You never give up do you? Before that twat came to power there was no sign of failures in the Soviet system. End of story. Case closed.

 

No it's not, the mere fact that he came into power is representative of the failure of the Soviet system.

 

 

Seven millions of white officers in Ukraine? Well, they were in the White army, which was trying to defeat the Soviet Government. It was a war, why the f*ck would you expect Red Army no to kill them. Katyn? Why would Russians be held responsible for the actions of Hitler's army? Purges? I don't know what do YOU do with people accused of crimes. I guess you feed them pie and send to bed earlier.

 

The White Russian Army was never 7 million strong, so thats pure bullsh*t from the start. For heavens sake, it was smaller than the Red Army. (Who by the way was only 500,000 strong in 1918.)Link Link

Most of those people who died where farmers starved when Stalin made them increase food output to a point to where they couldn't sustain themselves. Again

 

Since when did the Nazi's do Katyn Wood? More revisionist bullsh*t. Got a source?link Because I do.Oh look, some original Soviet documents relating to the massacre. Oh here, the original order translated into English. Soviet propaganda turned it against the Nazi's even though they(NKVD) perpetrated the crime.

 

The purges were nothing more than random killing by Stalin, his lists exist, those lists were filled with nothing but random names, the ones he crossed off were the ones to be saved, not killed.

 

Link

Another

 

 

At least I am not as much brainwashed and stupid and ignorant as you.

 

Haven't proved it. I have a least called you out and pointed out your mistakes. With reputable back up. You haven't done anything like that whatsoever.

 

 

Nobody won the Cold war. It was never finished, open you bloody eyes.

Really? Communism fell and all Russia is now is pissed off because they are not at the center of the world stage.

 

Russia is pissed, but its not what it was thirty years ago.

 

Sore-loser?

Let me revise this: The arms race isn't over, but the idealism part is.

 

 

FFS learn to read. Gorbachyov. The strawberry-on-the-head guy. Destoroyed. It. By. Making. It. Into. The government.

 

And communism isn't perfect by letting him into a position of power. I mean if communism did it's job, he would of been dead or out of the way.

 

 

Yet the aim is to get over this system and reach that kind of state when everyone can have anything for free. Give the guys at least 100 years or do you expect them to have free everything 50 years after being formed?

 

And communism never lasted that long. Let not talk hypotheticals, you know why?(Nevermind your making sh*t up.)

Because history has told us:

If it would have....IT WOULD HAVE!

Everything played out to its logical conclusion.

 

 

Go over the last 2 pages carefully with your friend. Find anywhere where I said that I want communism. Being failed to do so go cry in shame.

 

So that means your a proponent of communism, but you don't want it. What?

 

 

You can never be protected from a group of traitors + american propaganda did its job, and did good.

 

So you admit the system is flawed against both inside and outside sources.

 

 

Disadvantages and failures are not the same things.

 

Avoided the question, nevermind that those disadvantages lead to communisms failure.

 

Some of those disadvantages being I quote:

 

You can never be protected from a group of traitors + american propaganda did its job, and did good.

 

 

For 70 years people of Soviet Union had a system which provided free education, free holidays for workers, grants and benefits, great secutity both inside and outside the country, race-equality policy, income-equality policy, stability, free health care and lots of stuff I dont remember.

 

Not everyone so the point is moot.

Book on Soviet Poverty.Here

 

 

For 70 year the majority of USSR's citizens were either positive or neutral towards the ruling system.

 

Because if they were not, they were sent to the gulag or outright killed. Oppressive society.

 

 

Now, majority of people of RF feel the same towards USSR and many things linked with it.

 

Only 25% voted communist, not the majority.

You said so yourself.

 

And their number grows every year. Communists always come up second in any election with 25 percent of votes.

 

 

Sort yout your democracy first,

 

The United States is not a democracy, it is a Constitutional Republic.

 

 

Lots of theoretic and philosofic crap about Communism and human's nature

 

Will you explain to us why you completely avoided that argument? And tried to go into a totally different direction?

Edited by TFatseas

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Lioshenka

 

You still haven't gave me ONE source.

I am not going to. Why? Because you won't believe me anyway and i only will waste my time by doing so. Whoever is interested can find the sources himself. And even if you DO eventually believe me, it is well known that arguing on the Internet forum is equal to the special Olympics - even if you win you are stil mentally retarded.

 

 

Most of those people who died where farmers starved when Stalin made them increase food output to a point to where they couldn't sustain themselves.

it has nothing to do with Ukraine alone. It was so in all areas of USSR due to the rainy (or dry don't know) weather.

 

 

Bla-bla-bla.

This is all bullsh*t, I am not going to argue with you as it is waste of time. See above.

 

 

Really? Communism fell and all Russia is now is pissed off because they are not at the center of the world stage.

So it is american planes Venesuela is buying? You obviously havne't been following the recent news for the, like, 4 years.

 

 

And communism never lasted that long.

using your own tactics. Communism never was achieved in any of the countries.

 

 

So that means your a proponent of communism, but you don't want it.

If I like being shot rather than hanged, does it make me loving being shot?

 

 

Only 25% voted communist, not the majority

 

25 voted for todays so-called communist party, not for how they feel about USSR.

 

 

Will you explain to us why you completely avoided that argument? And tried to go into a totally different direction?

Because when you start paying attention to theories and human nature everything goes kaboom.

Edited by ˸øåíüêà

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mark-2007

 

You still haven't gave me ONE source.

I am not going to. Why? Because you won't believe me anyway and i only will waste my time by doing so. Whoever is interested can find the sources himself. And even if you DO eventually believe me, it is well known that arguing on the Internet forum is equal to the special Olympics - even if you win you are stil mentally retarded.

Oh dear, this was going (sort of) good before you said that. It makes your side of the argument totally useless now since you've basically just said you don't care. It also makes it look like you have no sources either. If you cared, it should be you coming up with sources, but since not, then you're obviously uninterested in this - in which case, why bother arguing in the first place.

 

And that saying applies to arguments as "Shut up fag!" - "GTFO of here n00b!" kind of argument. This isn't that kind of argument.

 

 

For 70 year the majority of USSR's citizens were either positive or neutral towards the ruling system.

To quote a film I've just seen:

 

"Survival by silence."

 

Or something like that. The point is, people had to keep quiet to avoid imprisonment/death. Nobody's going to say back in the time of the USSR, when asked if they like the current communist regime: "Oh well, this is wrong and that is wrong. I really don't like it, to be honest." Do you know what would happen had they said that?

 

Also, a personal question, if it's alright to ask. Why did your parents/guardians move to the UK?

Edited by mark-2007

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TFatseas

 

I am not going to. Why? Because you won't believe me anyway and i only will waste my time by doing so. Whoever is interested can find the sources himself. And even if you DO eventually believe me, it is well known that arguing on the Internet forum is equal to the special Olympics - even if you win you are stil mentally retarded.

 

Getting defensive are we? Since you will not back up ANY of your statements all your points are moot.

 

 

 

it has nothing to do with Ukraine alone. It was so in all areas of USSR due to the rainy (or dry don't know) weather.

 

If you don't even know about the weather in the first place, how can you comment on it?

 

What happened in the the Ukraine was a forced famine. Its been proven time and time again.

 

And what you said here is nothing like your original statement of only the White Russians were killed.

 

 

This is all bullsh*t, I am not going to argue with you as it is waste of time. See above.

 

Again, since you can't/won't prove its bullsh*t, we can't take you seriously.

And you still pick and choose.

 

 

using your own tactics. Communism never was achieved in any of the countries.

 

Your right, True Communism was attempted every time (Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge being the finest, closest example) and it failed every time.

 

 

Even if I want it, there are specific countries I have stated above which historically are more positive towards comunism.

 

And they all have failed at one point or another.

 

And being more acceptive does not hold any bearing on if it would work or not.

 

 

25 voted for todays so-called communist party, not for how they feel about USSR.

 

So communists are lazy and don't actively partake in their own country's politics?

 

 

Whoever does not miss the Soviet Union has no heart. Whoever wants it back has no brain

That sums it up well.

 

 

Because when you start paying attention to theories and human nature everything goes kaboom.

 

Again, prove it. At least provide reasoning. I used past examples and Marx's own writing to disprove that. You, well, didn't even argue them.

 

 

The impetus was on you to defend your system, but you won't. So I guess that leaves us at no other point than we are done with each other.

 

And I love this line.

 

And even if you DO eventually believe me, it is well known that arguing on the Internet forum is equal to the special Olympics - even if you win you are stil mentally retarded.

So I guess if I believe in communism I'm 'mentally retarded'.

Edited by TFatseas

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Struff Bunstridge
You still haven't gave me ONE source.

I am not going to. Why? Because you won't believe me anyway and i only will waste my time by doing so. Whoever is interested can find the sources himself.

I can't find any, and I've been looking. Can you point some out to me? I'll happily believe what you're saying if it can be backed up.

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Lioshenka

 

why bother arguing in the first place.

Its fun, isn't it? colgate.gif

 

 

Or something like that. The point is, people had to keep quiet to avoid imprisonment/death. Nobody's going to say back in the time of the USSR, when asked if they like the current communist regime: "Oh well, this is wrong and that is wrong. I really don't like it, to be honest." Do you know what would happen had they said that?

We had three points, that broke Russia's history. 1917, 1991 and 2004. Everytime the people did not feel good about their country they did their choice, and the government was changed. Seing that there were't any big movements before 1991 I can say that majority were aither positive or neutral, because you can't really keep people shut no matter how big the army is if most fo them are agains you. 1917 and 1991 kinda proves it.

 

Why did your parents/guardians move to the UK?

It was after the fal of communism in Russia.

 

 

If you don't even know about the weather in the first place, how can you comment on it?

Once the house was demolished, it really doesn't really matter whether a bomb blew it up or a bulldozer drove over it. The harvest was very low that year, that's all I know.

 

 

What happened in the the Ukraine was a forced famine. Its been proven time and time again.

So in Ukraine it was a forced femine... Starving people of Russia's Volga region did that of course.

 

 

And what you said here is nothing like your original statement of only the White Russians were killed.

You said 7 mln of ukrainians were killed, I suggeste they were White Russians. You said nothing about femine at that post.

 

 

Your right, True Communism was attempted every time (Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge being the finest, closest example) and it failed every time.

Something that wasn't achieved, can't fail, because it was never existed.

 

 

And they all have failed at one point or another.

Russia, China and hellava lots of Latin America countries have a positive feelings towards communism, no?

 

 

So communists are lazy and don't actively partake in their own country's politics?

As I said before, Communist party of Russia is nothing like CP of USSR. that is why it gets less votes than United Russia party, which has probably a bit less in common with CPSU than CPRF but does more for people.

 

 

The breakup of Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical tragedy of the century.
Oopsie

 

 

You, well, didn't even argue them

Cant be bothered to read it through and understand, you know.

 

So I guess if I believe in communism I'm 'mentally retarded'.
No you're a winner biggrin.gif

 

 

I can't find any, and I've been looking. Can you point some out to me? I'll happily believe what you're saying if it can be backed up.

 

Katyń

http://www.polskieradio.pl/thenews/foreign-affairs/?id=75133

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1965986/posts

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...,821863,00.html

 

Ukraine femine

http://archive.timesonline.co.uk/tol/viewA...s-1933-05-30-15

 

People's opinion about Stalin

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=ht...TF8&sl=ru&tl=en

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=ht...TF8&sl=ru&tl=en

 

Just some of them, sorry, don't really want to dig any deeper.

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TFatseas

 

 

These two say the same thing, and give almost no reasoning. There is nothing to back them up, just claims.

 

Nevermind it's Russian media talking.

 

 

 

Published 1951

 

 

May 1933

 

 

Says people were undecided.

 

 

That was about mostly about Putin. And that people believe that the west exaggerated about Stalin. They don't deny it though

 

And Russian media is horribly biased. Give me something from an independent source.

 

 

Once the house was demolished, it really doesn't really matter whether a bomb blew it up or a bulldozer drove over it. The harvest was very low that year, that's all I know.

 

I mean if your dead, it doesn't matter if the government did it or not right?

 

Cop-out.

 

 

So in Ukraine it was a forced femine... Starving people of Russia's Volga region did that of course.

 

Forced famine and famine are different.

 

 

You said 7 mln of ukrainians were killed, I suggeste they were White Russians. You said nothing about femine at that post.

 

 

The White Russian Army was never 7 million strong, so thats pure bullsh*t from the start. For heavens sake, it was smaller than the Red Army. (Who by the way was only 500,000 strong in 1918.)Link Link

Most of those people who died where farmers starved when Stalin made them increase food output to a point to where they couldn't sustain themselves. Again

 

I gave you three links on the subject in that earlier post. Its been my arguement the whole time.

 

And whats this?

 

What happened in the the Ukraine was a forced famine. Its been proven time and time again.

 

 

 

Something that wasn't achieved, can't fail, because it was never existed.

 

Never achieved because it failed everytime.

 

 

Russia, China and hellava lots of Latin America countries have a positive feelings towards communism, no?

 

Yep, as I said before, holds no bearing on the system if it would work or not. There is a lot of thing out their that people like, doesn't mean it works. (Like the UN)

 

 

As I said before, Communist party of Russia is nothing like CP of USSR. that is why it gets less votes than United Russia party, which has probably a bit less in common with CPSU than CPRF but does more for people.

 

So why don't the people change that?

 

 

The breakup of Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical tragedy of the century.

 

That relates more to the land Russia lost, not necessarily the system.

 

 

Cant be bothered to read it through and understand, you know.

 

So if you won't understand my positions, or even try, why do you argue? Why should I put up with you? If you will not, this discussion will not go any further. All that proves is you do not want to defend your system.

 

 

No you're a winner  biggrin.gif

 

I knew what you meant.

 

We should just stop, we really are not even debating communism anymore.

Edited by TFatseas

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mark-2007
Or something like that. The point is, people had to keep quiet to avoid imprisonment/death. Nobody's going to say back in the time of the USSR, when asked if they like the current communist regime: "Oh well, this is wrong and that is wrong. I really don't like it, to be honest." Do you know what would happen had they said that?

We had three points, that broke Russia's history. 1917, 1991 and 2004. Everytime the people did not feel good about their country they did their choice, and the government was changed. Seing that there were't any big movements before 1991 I can say that majority were aither positive or neutral, because you can't really keep people shut no matter how big the army is if most fo them are agains you. 1917 and 1991 kinda proves it.

 

But before the February Revolution in 1917, there was plenty of political opposition to the Tsarist government. The Romanov dynasty alone lasted for over 300 years, and I know that for at least it's last fifty years, there was opposition to tsardom. It was so serious that they assassinated Alexander III in 1881. So, whilst change does come along eventually, it doesn't mean that there was no opposition in the years in between.

 

 

Why did your parents/guardians move to the UK?

It was after the fal of communism in Russia.

But why the UK? If you were so happy under communism, why not move to another communist country, rather than an ally of the USSR's Cold War arch-enemy?

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mayfair
He was a f*cking heretic and traitor! I'm glad to see that son of a bitch dead! He now burns in hell, while Stalin relaxes in heaven surrounded by hot Russian girls! Die Capitalist pig-dogs!

 

Hail Stalin! For the Motherland!

Are you even Russian at all?

 

Because I see you have a UK flag, and the most likely thing is that your some 15 year old kid, who wants to be "different", so he goes round pretending to be a communist and that he's from russian.

 

On the other hand you could be a commie, in that case, meh to you, If your a commie go and give all your sh*t to your neighbor so you can live equally, someone who stood up to opression of soviet russia, who speaks out fully knowing the consequences has more backbone that you'll ever had. Goddamn pig.

Not this sh*t again. I'm not pretending to be Russian. I am a Communist. Also I'm 16 and I will be 17 on December 13th, I'm no kid.

Haha, you're 16, and you think you're not a kid? You've got a lot to learn mate.

 

You think communism isn't a "phase". Trust me, when you build the courage to think about your own opinion instead of following a conveniently popular political party, that's when you'll grow up.

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Struff Bunstridge
I can't find any, and I've been looking. Can you point some out to me? I'll happily believe what you're saying if it can be backed up.

 

Katyñ

http://www.polskieradio.pl/thenews/foreign-affairs/?id=75133

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1965986/posts

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...,821863,00.html

 

Ukraine femine

http://archive.timesonline.co.uk/tol/viewA...s-1933-05-30-15

 

People's opinion about Stalin

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=ht...TF8&sl=ru&tl=en

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=ht...TF8&sl=ru&tl=en

 

Just some of them, sorry, don't really want to dig any deeper.

Yuck. Horrible sources. Very little in the way of anything solid. I particularly liked:

 

 

Contrary to most historians opinions, the murders, claims Szirokorad, must have been the work of the Nazis.

 

Oh, so that's the argument decided, then. Most historians, no doubt historians with actual sources, have one opinion, but this guy just says 'No. Wrong.'. Brilliant.

 

One of the articles decrying the veracity of those events was inspired by a film being nominated for an Oscar, for Christ's sake.

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mark-2007

There was a bit in the paper today from a US correspondent which mentioned his "partisanship for Slobodan Milosevic". I thought Stefan disliked Milosevic? I wonder if he knew this.

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Lioshenka

 

And Russian media is horribly biased. Give me something from an independent source.

 

Find me ONE unbiased media and I will kiss you wherever you want.

 

 

 

We should just stop, we really are not even debating communism anymore.

OK, back to Solzhenitsyn (yeah, this topic is actually about him) smile.gif

 

 

 

But why the UK? If you were so happy under communism, why not move to another communist country, rather than an ally of the USSR's Cold War arch-enemy?

Call me a racist, I'd rather live in a country with at least half of population white race. Makes me feel like I am at home.

Edited by ˸øåíüêà

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