Suggestions on how to improve hand-to-hand

[doodwtf]

What is wrong with the fighting system now?

In my opinion, it's generic. Especially when Rockstar had good hand-to-hand combat in "The Warriors". Besides driving and shooting, there isn't much in terms of action. With a more developed fighting system , GTA4 would be a more complete experience. Settings where the player must use hand-to-hand provides variation to the gameplay, while keeping the player engaged.

 

Hand-to-hand(H2H) with gunplay.

Shooting an enemy a few times, then using a string of melee attacks to finish him conserves ammo. In order to do that now, you have to use the D-pad, which is inaccessible in those small window frames of time you need to use H2H. Disarming enemies. This is essential, once you disarm your opponent, he is forced to fight H2H with you. Stunning opponents. Some melee attacks have properties that will stun, or kill opponents. Kill attacks should be accessible to the player in situations where he is concealed from the opponent. With stunning, the player can stun an opponent that is aware of him, allowing time to finish with another weapon. GTA4 should implement all of these.

The player should be able to quickly switch to melee at any instant, and H2H techniques with weapons would be interesting to explore. When a player is in direct proximity of an opponent, auto aim should be allowed to the player. The auto-aim feature now in GTA4 is either off, or on. Auto aim now, simply makes the game easy. I'm suggesting that R* use auto aim in a way that is useful to the player, but doesn't take away from the challenge. This is where H2H, and guns come together.

For instance:

With a pistol. The player can develop a technique, let's call it "Top Pop" for instance, where the player will aim directly at his nearest target's head and fire a single shot. But this only works on targets within an arms length. The pistol whip technique, is strike with the butt end of the pistol that will disorient the target.

The shotgun is a more combat fit weapon for H2H. Another technique that would give the player auto aim would be one where he would fire from the hip at the nearest target, but like the Top Pop, this would only work only work for the range for the extending shotgun and the blast. If there are two targets, the player an choose his target by tilting the movement stick towards the intended target. The properties of this move could be, fire at nearest hostile target. The use of this move is that it can be done while running. The shotgun can be used to choke, stun, shove, or strike an opponent. Another possibility is to strike while running, knocking down the target.

For sub machine guns, one technique could allow the player, using the six-axis controller, to individually control and fire 2 guns at once. This means the player aiming 2 reticles at once with the left and right stick respectively. The six-axis will act as the movement input, while turning will require the player to tilt each stick in the same direction.

These are just a few examples of how how H2H, guns, and auto aim can complement each other.

 

H2H combat mechanics.

A good combat system isn't one where you just repeatedly press X. It has to be like a rock-paper-scissor game. Striking attacks can be blocked, blocking opponents can be grabbed, striking will prevent you from being grabbed. But, there are other ways to defend against striking attacks, and some attacks can create "block stun" or otherwise overpower other attacks. Slower attacks can be stopped by a faster attack, but some more powerful attacks can "crush" through weaker attacks. Having a system where as the player is hitting a combination of buttons and getting the same result, leads to repetitive game play. Attack buttons should be assigned to each button, much like Tekken, right punch and kick, and left punch/kick. Assuming Niko is right handed, attacks from the left side are faster, or some moves cover lots of distance, the right sided attacks are more powerful and have a wider area of range. So the player will have to think, and use variation in which attacks to use, for example: your fighting an opponent who is in H2H range, and another opponent is firing at you from a distance. The player can use a special kick technique that disarms an opponent and run away, or the player can use a quick attack that disorients his target, then he can grab the target and use him for a shield. Knowing what to use in those defining moments will enable the player to get out of some sticky situations, and the player will thank the mechanics later.

Inputs for special attacks would be simple, no need requiring complicated inputs when the player has to worry about spacing. Repeatedly pressing, or holding down an attack button, potentially leads to special attacks or mini combos. So, the player could be holding the right attack button down, and executes a mini combo, by pressing the left attack button twice, this leads Niko to do a 2-hit hook, then body blow. Then releasing the right attack button will cause Niko to perform a powerful right handed straight punch, that will stagger an opponent. Other special attacks or mini combos are done by pressing two attack buttons at once, or tilting the movement stick towards your opponent in conjunction with an attack. For Example: holding down both kicks, then pressing right kick will have Niko perform a jumping spinning kick, that will hit up to 2 targets. A charged an attack can be done while blocking, this allows the player not to attack to start charging. In order to cancel a charged attack, the player will have to block. So blocking is used more for just defense, it's to manage the players actions as well.

Throws.

Throwing opponents who don't suspect them is another tool the player should be able to utilize. Of course, there are counter measures to throwing as well. Throws are useful for instances where the player has to manage a group of targets. By throwing an opponent into a group of targets, you reduce the number of opponents actively engaging you for a short period of time. Throws can also deal quite a bit of damage in the right situations. Slamming an opponent against the wall, or off a building, can cut down on the number of opponents being faced by 1. But throws can be escaped. If the player presses the correct attack button at the moment the throw attempt reaches the player, then the throw is escaped.

Counters, reversals, and evasive maneuvers.

Attacks can also be countered, by blocking at the moment an attack connects the player can stop or deflect the attack. This gives Niko the opportunity to start attacking, or to initiate a throw. Reversals are a combination of counters,and an attack/throw, if the player performs the appropriate technique when he is attacked, he will counter with his own attack or throw his opponent. Like throws, the reversals can also be escaped. Evasive techniques are used to cover distance, or evade attacks. Counter hits. This is different from a counter. When a opponent attempts to attack you, but your attack connects first, you are rewarded with a counter hit. Some moves have special properties that stagger, or knockdown on counter hit.

 

Stamina. The player will have to learn not to throw out attack after attack in desperation, and in similar fashion, just as Niko cannot sprint forever, he cannot swing wildly without getting tired. Attacking uses stamina, and as Niko progresses, he has a bigger stamina pool to use. Parallel to that, as Niko fighting gets better, he will use less stamina for certain normal and special moves. As the stamina bar reaches zero, Nikos attacks will come out slower with less power, and grab attempts are easier to escape.

 

Keep in mind this is all just suggestions. Thanks to you who read the post, I know it was long. Let's hope R* will focus it's attention to fighting, in the next GTA.

Edited June 8, 2008 by doodwtf

[cipherblaze]

very well thought out post. I have to say after reading how you would implement "H2H" in game makes the current system feel wonky.

[keithmii2]

Very good ideas. GTA IV's fighting is an improvement over the previous installments, but you gave some well thought out ideas that could potentially put the current system to shame.

[UndergroundKing]

Thats exactly how I feel man. Good post. I didnt like GTA 4's fighting system at all. I played that Bourne Supremacy demo and it has dope ass fighting mechanics but its more cinematic reactions than actual fighting tho. Still looked tight but R* would make alot of ppl happy if they fixed the fighting mechanics so that it was action packed like that.

 

Give us seperate punch and kick buttons so we can do combos better and give us a grab button so we can throw peds into walls or pick them up and slam them. Also, make the damn block actually work and PLEASE fix the footwork so we can move in, out and side to side. I hate having to turn and run just to get me distance.

Edited June 8, 2008 by UndergroundKing

[Horatio Humboldt]

Yes, great post. H2H has improved with each installment but the simple fact is that you are only going to be unarmed for the first couple of missions so its not the developers priority.

[doodwtf]

Yes Horatio, I've notice that once the fighting missions are over, but not really much more is given to the player to say: "Here, you showed some skill using H2H, here is a new technique for you to learn." That entices the player to continue using H2H. One: because it rewards the player, two: where a gun simply attacks your target, H2H gives the player more options when dealing with multiple targets. I do agree that the player can beat the game just shooting his way through, but when the shooting is complemented by H2H, the action part of the game feels more complete. Here's a scenario.

 

Give the player an evasive technique, that will have Niko re-position his body in an attempt to dodge incoming gun fire, but this technique will only work just outside of point blank range. Niko can evade a gunshot aimed at his upper body, while running towards his opponent. So in a situation where Niko has 3 adversaries, he can quickly grab an opponent, charging a kick while initiating the grab, kick the second opponent. I had suggested earlier that R* should completely remove auto-aim, instead using gun techniques that auto-aim up to a limited range. So after Niko grabs the first opponent, which he is now using as a shield, kicks his second target, then Niko can snap the neck of the first target, or use a pistol technique that will attempt to head shot his apprehended target. From here Niko can use a shotgun technique thats acts as an auto aim,fire weapon at his third target, this technique would also work on opponents who are behind Neko.

 

This post is more than "My ideas for GTA". It's to express that GTA should be more than Driving and Shooting, and to gauge how well other players agreed. People suggest extra content like car modifying, robberies, more weapons, I would like to see a more refined H2H system. So while you are still armed, it's viable to use H2H, R* should consider addressing this aspect of the game in the future.

Edited June 8, 2008 by doodwtf

[Warmonger]

the fighting style of Bully would have been great for gtaIV I think, but with knife and bat additions

[doodwtf]

the fighting style of Bully would have been great for gtaIV I think, but with knife and bat additions

The fighting system in "Bully" is pretty much a watered down version of "The Warriors". The Warriors was a much more brutal game, using interesting camera angles during fights, and at some points, having up to 10 combatants on the screen. You can grab an opponent, then do a "power attack", with a knife this usually meant killing the target. Good game, i would recommend renting it, it shows how brawler games can be fun if done right.