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What should R* first priority be for GTA IV?


lacasner

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Despite what anyone claims, or what anyone says, one can admit over a certain amount of time (upon competition of the story) that GTA IV tends to stagnate quite rapidly. I'm not talking about fingerless gloves or pointless mini-game sh*t like we had in san Andreas, but rather actually activities from just repetitivly stealing cars and shooting pedestrians. No matter how much a person genuinelly enjoys this (which we all do to a certain extent smile.gif), it gets boring and repetitive.

 

Now, many of you may just say "if you're bored then stop playing", which I practically am doing. However, the point of this discussion I'm starting is to introduce to you some ideas which I feel will prevent us from feeling this boredome from the game. I did not create my boredom from the game, it is just that after the story is completeted there is nothing left to do except grind for the numerous achievements left to get (in singleplayer).

 

Now, to remedy the stagnation of single player in San Andreas, I spent a significant part of my gaming time with it in co-op or 2 player mode, just blowing sh*t up with my friend. Without a doubt the 2 player mode kept things much more interesting, and I thought at the time how awesome it would be to do the same thing I was doing then with even more people, just terrorizing the city!

 

So, I was very excited to see multiplayer and what it could offer. Now, I'm not saying that it's that dissapointing either. However, the biggest problem at the moment is that the game is still very limiting on what we can actually do. Free mode, in general, is mostly just shoot and run with other players, as most buildings cannot be entered. Yes, it is true we can drive around endlessly and just get stars and try to escape, but more interaction with the map is needed undoubtedly.

 

 

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but isn't GTA the most fun anyway when you're playing with friends? Because this is so, shouldn't R* push to develop this part of GTA even more, seeing it has the most potential over the long run?

 

I know that GTA can't be some highly competitive game of Halo or Call of Duty proportions, and I really don't want it to become that. But, at this time, the ranking system is simply pitiful, and it is killing the replayability of the game. To see games like Hangman's Noose offer such easy rank boosts makes it practically a joke. If someone wanted to, they could achieve rank 7 in a fullday of just doing Noose, which is absolutely absurd.

 

Not only that, but there is no real benefit or bonus to winning deatmatches, and no penalty for losing ranked matches. There is no distinction between player skill either as there are no significant categories of kills/assists/wins/losses. It seems like R* just rushed something at the last second to say that they offer multiplayer in the game.

 

To fix this, I ask you, the great community of this forum ( turn.gif ), what do you think is the solution to this problem? Is the problem with the current GTA in multiplayer or in singleplayer? What can be done? I really don't want to stop playing this game, as I envisioned it would offer me more than like 40 hours of entertainment, but without significant changes occuring I just don't know how it will.

 

My opinion, however, is to fix the ranking system (a similar model to that of COD, but not a replica, because after all this is GTA) as the first priority R* should have, but what is yours?

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Despite what anyone claims, or what anyone says, one can admit over a certain amount of time (upon competition of the story) that GTA IV tends to stagnate quite rapidly. I'm not talking about fingerless gloves or pointless mini-game sh*t like we had in san Andreas, but rather actually activities from just repetitivly stealing cars and shooting pedestrians. No matter how much a person genuinelly enjoys this (which we all do to a certain extent smile.gif), it gets boring and repetitive.

 

Now, many of you may just say "if you're bored then stop playing", which I practically am doing. However, the point of this discussion I'm starting is to introduce to you some ideas which I feel will prevent us from feeling this boredome from the game. I did not create my boredom from the game, it is just that after the story is completeted there is nothing left to do except grind for the numerous achievements left to get (in singleplayer).

 

Now, to remedy the stagnation of single player in San Andreas, I spent a significant part of my gaming time with it in co-op or 2 player mode, just blowing sh*t up with my friend. Without a doubt the 2 player mode kept things much more interesting, and I thought at the time how awesome it would be to do the same thing I was doing then with even more people, just terrorizing the city!

 

So, I was very excited to see multiplayer and what it could offer. Now, I'm not saying that it's that dissapointing either. However, the biggest problem at the moment is that the game is still very limiting on what we can actually do. Free mode, in general, is mostly just shoot and run with other players, as most buildings cannot be entered. Yes, it is true we can drive around endlessly and just get stars and try to escape, but more interaction with the map is needed undoubtedly.

 

 

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but isn't GTA the most fun anyway when you're playing with friends? Because this is so, shouldn't R* push to develop this part of GTA even more, seeing it has the most potential over the long run?

 

I know that GTA can't be some highly competitive game of Halo or Call of Duty proportions, and I really don't want it to become that. But, at this time, the ranking system is simply pitiful, and it is killing the replayability of the game. To see games like Hangman's Noose offer such easy rank boosts makes it practically a joke. If someone wanted to, they could achieve rank 7 in a fullday of just doing Noose, which is absolutely absurd.

 

Not only that, but there is no real benefit or bonus to winning deatmatches, and no penalty for losing ranked matches. There is no distinction between player skill either as there are no significant categories of kills/assists/wins/losses. It seems like R* just rushed something at the last second to say that they offer multiplayer in the game.

 

To fix this, I ask you, the great community of this forum ( turn.gif ), what do you think is the solution to this problem? Is the problem with the current GTA in multiplayer or in singleplayer? What can be done? I really don't want to stop playing this game, as I envisioned it would offer me more than like 40 hours of entertainment, but without significant changes occuring I just don't know how it will.

 

My opinion, however, is to fix the ranking system (a similar model to that of COD, but not a replica, because after all this is GTA) as the first priority R* should have, but what is yours?

Can someone read All of this for me, focusing on its main points- then post my reply. I can't be bothered. Thanks!

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drpacifist

First off, I want to say I am what you would call a hardcore GTA fan. I've been playing since the lame over the top views and enjoying it just the same ever since.

 

In my opinion, this game series has gotten better and better each and every game. San Andreas was a great game. It was leaps and bounds beyond GTA3 and all the on the same system. All the features packed in on the ps2 was simple amazing. Just the lack of load times between islands made my day.

 

Now that GTA4 is out and I've had plenty of time to form a decent opinion, although obviously slanted, on the game. What it lacks in features like jetpacks, planes, car mods, and garages [gta car collector here] it certainly makes up for with the realism of the world. This game is in the fine details. The faces of pedestrians, the sounds of the city, the damage of the cars, the reflections of the sun and skyline off the water. The new physics of the game give the game a much needed push in the right direction.

 

When gta3 was released, no one had and real concept of what the game should have been. Fast forward 3 years and your now playing San Andreas. GTA4 is the first gta on the next gen platform and its true to its roots. Although some things are different, some things are much much better. Just enjoy the work of art you have before you and imagine what you'll be playing in 3 years time.

 

To make this game better? If we ignore or assume all the simple and most common issues are dealt with, [garages, more clothes, more buildings, properties, camera with upload feature, etc] it would be hard to imagine any physical changes. It will have to come in the form of in game world events and some different story lines.

 

Massive world events. While it appears Rockstar has tried to stay away from any change of being blamed for encouraging kids and some nutty adults from flying planes into buildings or having a 911 style disaster in the game, a massive world changing event would have really drawn players in. Imagine an earthquake, flood, hurricane or other disaster taking place in any of the GTA city of the past. Imagine how the landscape, people, reactions, and general environment would have changed. Imagine how characters in the game would change.

 

Story Lines. Being the first GTA on the new system with players ranging from gta to gta:sa, you'd want to stick with the tried and true originally. They kept this game much like the others with only a real change of where the character ends up at the end. I personally feel Nikos character is the most interesting of all the protagonists in the GTA series. I honestly don't see how they can improve on the writing or creation of characters to suit everyone, short of allowing us to customize our character but that would open up a huge new can of problems.

 

Multiple story lines would help. If you choose to be a psycho killer and kill everything and everyone you see should give you a different storyline from say, a player who chooses to swerve away from that stupid pedestrian who ran out into the road. Then more and more voice overs would be required creating less and less space on the disc for other features and gadgets we want.

 

The Persistent Online GTA Universe. The options here are limitless.

 

Back to Reality, GTA4 Online The ranking is flawed and I personally believe the final delay before release had to do with multiplayer. I think a lot of us were pissed that multiplayer wasn't going to be included and I recall a lot of angry posters. A better ranking system, more creative multiplayer games like drunken racing, infection/tag would be nice but I don't think most of the online options have even been explored. I've yet to join a game with all tags off. Some of the matchmaking could be tweeked but I feel if everyone knew how to kick the idle host, things would improve dramatically.

 

Drunken Racing Modes: Drunk racing = chaos

Infection/TAG

More Co-op missions

Liberty City Maze race: Roadblocks/walls are everywhere and you can't see them on the map, but you gotta get to the finish line.

DLC Maps: Custom maps like an arena for distruction derby and interiors for deathmatch, blocked off areas of maps for dm.

Custom Races: Host Selects markers for races.

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First off, I want to say I am what you would call a hardcore GTA fan. I've been playing since the lame over the top views and enjoying it just the same ever since.

 

In my opinion, this game series has gotten better and better each and every game. San Andreas was a great game. It was leaps and bounds beyond GTA3 and all the on the same system. All the features packed in on the ps2 was simple amazing. Just the lack of load times between islands made my day.

 

Now that GTA4 is out and I've had plenty of time to form a decent opinion, although obviously slanted, on the game. What it lacks in features like jetpacks, planes, car mods, and garages [gta car collector here] it certainly makes up for with the realism of the world. This game is in the fine details. The faces of pedestrians, the sounds of the city, the damage of the cars, the reflections of the sun and skyline off the water. The new physics of the game give the game a much needed push in the right direction.

 

When gta3 was released, no one had and real concept of what the game should have been. Fast forward 3 years and your now playing San Andreas. GTA4 is the first gta on the next gen platform and its true to its roots. Although some things are different, some things are much much better. Just enjoy the work of art you have before you and imagine what you'll be playing in 3 years time.

 

To make this game better? If we ignore or assume all the simple and most common issues are dealt with, [garages, more clothes, more buildings, properties, camera with upload feature, etc] it would be hard to imagine any physical changes. It will have to come in the form of in game world events and some different story lines.

 

Massive world events. While it appears Rockstar has tried to stay away from any change of being blamed for encouraging kids and some nutty adults from flying planes into buildings or having a 911 style disaster in the game, a massive world changing event would have really drawn players in. Imagine an earthquake, flood, hurricane or other disaster taking place in any of the GTA city of the past. Imagine how the landscape, people, reactions, and general environment would have changed. Imagine how characters in the game would change.

 

Story Lines. Being the first GTA on the new system with players ranging from gta to gta:sa, you'd want to stick with the tried and true originally. They kept this game much like the others with only a real change of where the character ends up at the end. I personally feel Nikos character is the most interesting of all the protagonists in the GTA series. I honestly don't see how they can improve on the writing or creation of characters to suit everyone, short of allowing us to customize our character but that would open up a huge new can of problems.

 

Multiple story lines would help. If you choose to be a psycho killer and kill everything and everyone you see should give you a different storyline from say, a player who chooses to swerve away from that stupid pedestrian who ran out into the road. Then more and more voice overs would be required creating less and less space on the disc for other features and gadgets we want.

 

The Persistent Online GTA Universe. The options here are limitless.

 

Back to Reality, GTA4 Online The ranking is flawed and I personally believe the final delay before release had to do with multiplayer. I think a lot of us were pissed that multiplayer wasn't going to be included and I recall a lot of angry posters. A better ranking system, more creative multiplayer games like drunken racing, infection/tag would be nice but I don't think most of the online options have even been explored. I've yet to join a game with all tags off. Some of the matchmaking could be tweeked but I feel if everyone knew how to kick the idle host, things would improve dramatically.

 

Drunken Racing Modes: Drunk racing = chaos

Infection/TAG

More Co-op missions

Liberty City Maze race: Roadblocks/walls are everywhere and you can't see them on the map, but you gotta get to the finish line.

DLC Maps: Custom maps like an arena for distruction derby and interiors for deathmatch, blocked off areas of maps for dm.

Custom Races: Host Selects markers for races.

You my friend are the smartest one on GTAForums.

 

And the OP is a smart one too.

Posted on Ganton Ave. Slangin Rocks.

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Honestly, I think it's going to be all about incredibly complex story branches and choices, not just an alternate ending = endless replay value. Crafting entirely unique stories everytime, e.g. failing missions have real consequences and shape the experience and relationships with characters and lead on to new relationships and side stories. Meaning you could play the same game and rarely see the same characters/missions. I'd really love to see Mass Effect style dialogue choices - dialogue/cutscenes shaped and defined by the choices/actions of the player. Being able to actually interact with every ped to a limited extent. But honestly with the level of work involved in creating such vast and detailed environments, we might never see this with GTA but this is my vision for the future of all story driven gaming.

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Tony Mozzarelli 80

I think there should be activities in SP that can also be undertaken in MP

and i'm not talking about darts or any of that nonsense.

I'm talking bank robberies, burglaries, store robberies, safe cracking

kidnapping, warehouse robberies, ATM robberies, Deals going down that

you can find out about and intervene, drug dealing, smuggling with boats,

assassinations, all these kinda things which would add to the original

concept of what GTA is all about, why would i wanna go play pool with

Little Jacob, when we could go and ambush a mob deal?

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notgtajerk
I think there should be activities in SP that can also be undertaken in MP

and i'm not talking about darts or any of that nonsense.

I'm talking bank robberies, burglaries, store robberies, safe cracking

kidnapping, warehouse robberies, ATM robberies, Deals going down that

you can find out about and intervene, drug dealing, smuggling with boats,

assassinations, all these kinda things which would add to the original

concept of what GTA is all about, why would i wanna go play pool with

Little Jacob, when we could go and ambush a mob deal?

omg multiplayer three leaf clover bank robbery goodness would be so epic. and perhaps the opposing team could be the cops trying to stop you? that would be sick.

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Tony Mozzarelli 80
I think there should be activities in SP that can also be undertaken in MP

and i'm not talking about darts or any of that nonsense.

I'm talking bank robberies, burglaries, store robberies, safe cracking

kidnapping, warehouse robberies, ATM robberies, Deals going down that

you can find out about and intervene, drug dealing, smuggling with boats,

assassinations, all these kinda things which would add to the original

concept of what GTA is all about, why would i wanna go play pool with

Little Jacob, when we could go and ambush a mob  deal?

omg multiplayer three leaf clover bank robbery goodness would be so epic. and perhaps the opposing team could be the cops trying to stop you? that would be sick.

Yep now that would be awesome, or imagine the Mafiya work mode

if the objectives were actually a little tougher and more in depth,

it would result in some interesting battles

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emigrating
I can't explain how much i can't be arsed reading this thread...

So why don't you GTFO?

 

 

e.g. failing missions have real consequences and shape the experience

That's a great idea - just look at the initial diamond mission in IV. Had you passed that instead of a forced fail you could have moved on directly to a completely different set of missions. The downside to this would be that in order to create an "infinite" (I know, bad choice of word) number of missions the quality of said missions would suffer (not that they haven't suffered enough in IV anyhow).

 

 

I'm talking bank robberies, burglaries, store robberies, safe cracking

kidnapping, warehouse robberies, ATM robberies

I still can't believe they didn't include the store robberies (sticking your hand in the till just isn't the same thing) and burglary side-missions in IV. I mean, what the hell were they thinking in that meeting where they decided this should be left out?!

 

Anyhow, online bank robberies would be great. Perhaps even have it "team" based, where you could either be a cop or robber. Then as a robber you'd have to scope out a bank, take out security, provide escape routes, actually empty the vault and finally escape to a safehouse somewhere. As a cop you'd be notified once the robbery was actually in progress, up until that you'd simply be on patrol duty - and possibly be lucky enough to spot a robber going into the bank before the alarm is raised. Your job of course is to take them down, any way possible. Ideally this would be a one-life thing, and if you died during the a mission you'd stay dead until either everyone was dead or had made it to the safehouse.

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Something I thought would have been a great boon to the online mode would have been a mode akin to the "Forge" editor in Halo 3.

 

Give people access to physics props, spawn vehicles, a selection of physical assets like pre-built ramp models, and so on.

Have the chance to develop and create gameplay scenarios that simply aren't initially possible in the rules of the game's system, and give people the chance to do stuff R* likely never intended.

 

I can't imagine anything opening up the game play capabilities and possibilities more than this.

 

If GTA wants to hold the crown as the king of sandbox games, mayhap they need to reconsider what the idea of a 'sandbox' game is.....

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nickstemoeilijk

 

I can't explain how much i can't be arsed reading this thread...

Well then don't bother replying to it either c*nt.

 

drpacifist: Thank you for calling GTA a work of art, for that is what it is. It's a combination of art forms brought forward in an entertainment franchise, I'm talking about cinema experience, combined with creative music, writing, comedy and even architecture (and it won't be long until game development itself will be considered an art).

 

What a lot of people tend to forget that GTA is first of all a sharp-edged society critique, mocking the Western world and it's thirst for technology, hype and sensation.

Has anyone ever thought about why they put in the TV, internet and all that in? I just love reading those websites, watching those commercials and television programs. They are so full of irony and wit.

 

@OP: Multiplayer is definitely the element they should focus on.

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Tony Mozzarelli 80

Yup that would be a good 8v8 battle. or the cops could be tipped off as to

where your 'setting up the job missions' were going to happen, but could

only attack you if they catch you in the act, so you would have to tail the

crooks in your undercover clothes or somethin

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I have to say I agree with drpacifist about almost everything in his post. I can only imagine the branches the storyline would take after a major disaster. And I think that world changing events would lead to a much deeper and realistic gameplay experiance. But the fact is someone is going to be left feeling short changed. There is only so much room on the disk for 360 and if they do it DLC then people who own PS3 are going to feel left out. As much as I'd like to see all the improvments that have been suggested I don't think it will be a possibility. That only leaves two options. 1, make it a PS3 exclusive or 2, MS will have to upgrade their hardware, which I don't see happening due to cost restrictions. Overall a very good topic. Good job.

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notgtajerk

i agree. the xbox360 will be considered obsolete when the content requirement for games gets any bit better. and it will get better. because the ps3 can do better.

 

*edit* on a side note, lacasner , none of my irl friends can afford a ps3 and a broadband connection hahaha stupid college. cry.gif

Edited by notgtajerk
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emigrating
...or 2, MS will have to upgrade their hardware, which I don't see happening due to cost restrictions...

No.

 

All they have to do is upgrade their policy of not allowing games to demand there is a HDD installed on the console. If they suddenly allow this, a game can ship on 2 DLDVDs and you install it on the harddrive. The majority of 360's do have HDDs (either because they were bought as a Premium/Elite pack or because they were purchased as an addon later).

 

As for MS upgrading the hardware - they will obviously do this also, but not until the generation arrives I believe (2010/2011) - which means no BD drive for existing 360s.

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i agree. the xbox360 will be considered obsolete when the content requirement for games gets any bit better. and it will get better. because the ps3 can do better.

 

I suppose this is true, however the changes R* needs to make are really minor in programming/size content terms, so really at this point I am confused as why they don't want to change MP. Like I said, free mode is merely a fraction of what it has the potential to be, there is no efficient lobby system, and most importantly the rank system is garbage. The latter 2 are most easily corrected, so I'm kind of disappointed that seemingly no initiative is being taken to fix them.

 

Like we agreed on, this is GTA, not halo or call of duty, but even so these types of changes need to be made.

 

Just to add however, to fix singleplayer in itself is much more difficult, as the potential for multiplayer, in my opinion, is much greater and much simpler to satisfy.

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first priority. keeping the dlc a secret and making it worth while if were going to have to pay for it.... :|

 

 

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Despite what anyone claims, or what anyone says, one can admit over a certain amount of time (upon competition of the story) that GTA IV tends to stagnate quite rapidly. I'm not talking about fingerless gloves or pointless mini-game sh*t like we had in san Andreas, but rather actually activities from just repetitivly stealing cars and shooting pedestrians. No matter how much a person genuinelly enjoys this (which we all do to a certain extent smile.gif), it gets boring and repetitive.

 

Now, many of you may just say "if you're bored then stop playing", which I practically am doing. However, the point of this discussion I'm starting is to introduce to you some ideas which I feel will prevent us from feeling this boredome from the game. I did not create my boredom from the game, it is just that after the story is completeted there is nothing left to do except grind for the numerous achievements left to get (in singleplayer).

 

 

Yeah ok it may get boring, and repetitive at some point, but so does parachuting, or flying a plane.

 

You make alot of great points, and it's good to see, but you can't speak for everyone.

 

This is the problem people that get bored of it try to speak for others. No if I was truely bored I wouldn't even play it now. I've played it just about everyday for the last 5 weeks, and I'm still not bored. I don't play for hours on end, but that's probably why I'm still interested.

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wretlingrock392
u sir, strike me as an intresinfajkbhjfbjmx

please stop posting random cr*p

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