Underage players

[Bawjaws]

You guys know little about kids, and little about maturity. GTA is just a VIDEO GAME. Playing it does not instantly make you want to kill people, or Bang hookers. I am 14

This is correct. You don't have to be very old to understand the difference between right and wrong. Copying a game like GTA in real life is a sign of insanity, not immaturity. From what I can tell, you're an example of why 14-year-olds are perfectly capable of playing this game, with no adverse effects on their psyche.

 

As to the question of why 30-somethings play video games: I played them when I was a kid, and I play them now. You will too when you're in your 30s, because they are fun. Adults still like to have fun.

i was eleven when i played the original in 1997. The game had a larger feature on cars and driving..... I now drive like a mother f*cker and shout Gouranga!' every time i run over more than three people!.... coincidence?

[RONIN1191]

This topic is actually pointless, what have underage players ever done to you? You just sound like some jerk who wants to take away all the little kids' fun...

You sound like one of those little kids.

 

LMAO @ the comment 'you know so little about kids' - go to school much? WE didn't spring out of the womb fully grown, we were kids too, once. One thing I can safely say: every generation thinks the one before it has NO CLUE regarding what they're going through, whatever that might be....but we have every clue and could probably help out if you weren't so dead set against looking to your elders for advice in the first place.

 

Wish I'd realized that when I was a kid myself.

[bblancobrnx]

 

You guys know little about kids, and little about maturity. GTA is just a VIDEO GAME. Playing it does not instantly make you want to kill people, or Bang hookers. I am 14 and to date i have shot 0 people, had sex 0 times and commited 0 roberries. Some times i think that people on this  site havent been kids for so long, that they forget how it was, and dont realise that we are mature enough to handle this stuff. ITS JUST A GAME. Some could say that it is imature of a 30 year old to still be playing kids games. only the 1 in 1000000 dumbass crazy kid will do what they do in a game, and they were either going to kill someone anyway or have parents who havent taught them the simplist rights and wrongs. and then again, what about the 1 in a 1000000 adult who would do the same thing. You guys are GTA fans, and you are the last people who i would expect to thinl would say GTA is actually harmful for peopl. I thaught it was only these dumbasss republican parents and Jack thompson who were dumb enough to open their eyes to see that sex, crime and drugs are all around us. Infact these games by protraying guns as funny and stupid thing may actually make kids less likely to think that it is cool to have a gun and do drugs. sounds stupid i know, but its something a 30 year old wouldnt understand. what i say to u guys who think only adults have the right to play it, grow up, watch some porn get a life and a gf. Shame on you, you are not true gta fans. Every one has the right to play GTA. Young and Old.

Actually, I think It might be a GOOD constructive outlet for everyone's violent feelings. How many times has anyone here been driving down the highway only to be cut off and almost hit by some idiot in a rush. I know I have. I have then, even only for a moment, thought about ramming that person off the road with my GMC pickup truck. Life can be frustrating at times, and I think video games are a healthy way to outlet that frustration. I, too, played adult themed games when I was underage, and it did nothing that I know of to adversely affect me. It all depends on the core value instilled in a peron by their parents and other adults. I think it is especially important that they made Niko have some type of conscience in this game. HE shows regret at having to do some of the things he does. I think a large portion of people that are affected by the glorification of violence, of ALL ages, are not represented by the users of this forum. They might not even OWN computers. A lot of times their parents were hardly a part of their lives growing up. I think the ratings are predominantly there because of these youths. Parents who are up in arms about this game and the content are not usually the parents of the kids that it directly affects. They are parents of the 'good' kids who may get shot in the crossfire of gang related violence or beat to a pulp by the kid from a broken home who sees Niko beating up and shooting people and thinks it looks like fun to do in real life. (well, Niko, and their friends, and people in certain movies) It certainly doesn't affect everyone that way.

Edited June 4, 2008 by bblancobrnx

[firedance_kid]

Dunno if anyones mentioned this already, but its quite easy to program a game with a 4 digit pin-code and DOB recognition so that when you insert the disc it asks for the code and DOB whenever you turn on the dvd player. The codes usually printed on the dvd box or more usually on a plastic card that comes with the dvd and can then be discarded when you remember the number.

A lot of *ahem* American Hardcore dvd's have this simple programming incorporated. Its still easy to beat if you have the code but its a good deterrent.

It basically means that if a minor borrows or gets given a copy of the game they can't necessarily play it.

 

Its not fail safe but its a good and simple idea. It means the girlfriend can't watch your porn either when your away

 

I have never understood why 18 rated games don't have this simple programming. I get the feeling that there worried it will affect sales.

[forgrif]

there realy shoud be something that stops underage kids from playing the game .

 

This way there wont be so mutch pointless topics about :

WHY ISNT GTA4 more like The SIMS ; WHY isnt gta4 more like a rap movie ; why isnt gta more like 2 fast 2 furious movie ; WHY isnt gta4 more like Amaginary world where you can be gangsta rapper with more clothes than new sims game and more carmods then the last nfs game and yeti and bigfoot ;

 

SHUT UP ALREADY (you dont deserve fingerless gloves you neither deserve lola )

[chrisisking]

No, it's all up to the parent. Which is how it should be.

 

Unfortunately, parents these days are irresponsible idiots who buy their spoiled foulmouth 11 year old Xbox Live, and GTA IV.

Well, a parent is not allowed to bring their kid into a rated X movie. Even if they want to, they can't. You are so right about a lot of parents being irresposible, though. Geez, I remember when I was like 12 I wanted to watch the movie Road House, and my mom wouldn't let me. Parents are not the only way that kids get this game (although they are probably most common). So you don't think that the video game industry should have any kind of additional security to prevent kids from playing this game? LOL, I remember when I was a kid I used to play the computer game Leisure Suit Larry. There were 5 questions at the beginning (random out of 100) that were old general knowledge trivia multiple choice. Nowadays that would never work because kids could just look up the answers online!!!

Road house, what a film ! This matter is all down to the parent and whether they think its ok for their child to play games that are too mature for them, including GTA. My brother in law isn't allowed to play GTA IV when he comes over during the summer holidays becasue his mum has heard all sorts of bullsh*t about how GTA (GTA IV especially) warps kids and the rest of the sh*t the politicians come up with, and she also thinks he's bad enough with the swearing but you hear swearing everywhere so thats a load of crap . I myself feel sorry for him as he loves GTA, espacially when you take into consideration that he's had San Andreas for god knows how long, I know, its naffing stupid . He's about 12 and knows its just a game for entertainment and won't go round stabbing people or whacking them with bats. So all this really shows is how ignorant and deluded she is by arseholes like err let me think...? Jack Thompson anyone? I mean I've played all sorts of games from a young age as my parents always knew I was mature for my age and respected me enough to let me make my own decisions, and I haven't turned into some nutcase that wants to kill people all the time, just when I'm pissed off Seriously though, most of these cases and people that claim violent media rules a childs mind and molds them is bullsh*t, its more their idol that does that (and an idol can be anyone from your dad to a close friend, but its more likely to happen if your with that person alot).

 

Anyway I'm just babbling on now but I do know that if a kid wants something they'll most likely get it. Like today I was cycling past two little lads, couldn't of been over 9, and one said "I have GTA IV now" I knew one of the kids and I doubt that it will turn him into a psycho, if anything his prick of a father will do that, but it just proves that kids do get hold of stuff that by law they shouldn't and whether you think this is good or not is very subjective and in my opinion it depends on the person. If someones very mature for their age then why not? But I hate these peace keeping arseholes on a crusade to save human civilization by stopping innocent kids playing games and watching films, when they should be sorting out the real sh*theads in this world such as the chavs that infest Britain or the terrorists in the east. But no, its easier to sit on their ass and blame games for all the wrong in the world instead of taking on real issues.

[bblancobrnx]

A friend's brother works closely with a criminal profiler for the FBI. He told me that , according to his brother, children exposed to large amounts of violence (of any kind either participating or observing) are much, much more likely to engage in violent activities when they are older

Edited June 4, 2008 by bblancobrnx

[oldage]

i'm 13 , and i've been playing GTA since GTA III.

i don't complain wether i'm old enough or not , my parents gave me the option to choose between becoming social , or becoming a gamer..

easy choice...gamer!

anyway , the games are NOT hard , with cheats the games becomes harder for me for some reason.

Also , underaged players sometimes won't get the jokes that are made in the game...but i do

[MrMuise]

No, it's all up to the parent. Which is how it should be.

 

Unfortunately, parents these days are irresponsible idiots who buy their spoiled foulmouth 11 year old Xbox Live, and GTA IV.

I solely believe that anything a kid under the age of 18 does is a reflection of the parent....it's there responsibility to decide whats right and wrong for the kids not the other way around!!!

I have a 6 yr old daughter and you beter believe she knows nothing about this game!!!! i play when she is in bed on the second level or when she is out with my wife!!!

[davidJK]

This topic is actually pointless, what have underage players ever done to you? You just sound like some jerk who wants to take away all the little kids' fun...

Little kids have enough fun. One of the only benefits of being an adult is denying this fun.

lol

 

[Lt. Dan]

As it stands, I see a lot of forums (including this one) where a lot of underage kids are playing this game. Do you think that Rockstar or the video game industry should make it harder for these players to play the game? I think the game is rated over 18, so that is technically like a rated X movie. I don't agree with that rating, but that is the rating nonetheless. I know there are plenty of parents and friends buying this game for others, and it is getting into the hands of players that are under 18. Should they implement some kind of age verification into the game to stop this? It really doesn't bother me, but it might if I had kids. I don't know how they could do some kind of verification except via the internet, but not everyone has internet. Anyone else have any feelings on this?

Age verification would be pointless, kids would just put that they're 18, like every kid does when they sign up for forums or porn sites.

 

Any other ideas? Didn't think so.

[cadm9410]

I'm 13 and I've been playing GTA all my life. There are others like me... I hope. but why would someone want a game to be harder just to make underage players suffer. I mean I grew up with GTA3 and South Park. Being that way has made me a lot more mature than some of my friends. And that's why I still play GTA.

 

Edited June 4, 2008 by cadm9410

[Smallz92]

lol i had a 9 yr old play on my team online it was the worst online game experience of my life !!!!!!!!!!!! all i heard was in a squeaky american voice im gunna kill you over and over again ! i lossed it and sed u cant f*ckin kill me im on your f*ckin team you very bad c word ! lol

 

but i suppose it really does depend on maturity as there was a guy say 19 to 20 doing special ed throughout a whole game

 

yh it is the responsibility of the parent as once i heard a dad and his daughter was asking sumthing and he sed shut the f*ck up im playing gta and then she asked if she could play and he sed yes !

Edited June 4, 2008 by Smallz92

[SantiagoDomingo]

lol i had a 9 yr old play on my team online it was the worst online game experience of my life !!!!!!!!!!!! all i heard was in a squeaky american voice im gunna kill you over and over again ! i lossed it and sed u cant f*ckin kill me im on your f*ckin team you very bad c word ! lol

 

but i suppose it really does depend on maturity as there was a guy say 19 to 20 doing special ed throughout a whole game

How can you tell age through voice?

[Smallz92]

lol i had a 9 yr old play on my team online it was the worst online game experience of my life !!!!!!!!!!!! all i heard was in a squeaky american voice im gunna kill you over and over again ! i lossed it and sed u cant f*ckin kill me im on your f*ckin team you very bad c word ! lol 

 

but i suppose it really does depend on maturity as there was a guy say 19 to 20 doing special ed throughout a whole game

How can you tell age through voice?

NOTICE SQUEAKY VOICE i could tell roughly that the person was nt over 10 for the reason of his maturity and he said you bum hole so i guess i jus thought 9

[andysniper]

it sometimes says that the raring is 18 because some content may be lialble to offend. but if it doesnt affend you then i think it is fine

[SantiagoDomingo]

lol i had a 9 yr old play on my team online it was the worst online game experience of my life !!!!!!!!!!!! all i heard was in a squeaky american voice im gunna kill you over and over again ! i lossed it and sed u cant f*ckin kill me im on your f*ckin team you very bad c word ! lol 

 

but i suppose it really does depend on maturity as there was a guy say 19 to 20 doing special ed throughout a whole game

How can you tell age through voice?

NOTICE SQUEAKY VOICE i could tell roughly that the person was nt over 10 for the reason of his maturity and he said you bum hole so i guess i jus thought 9

. . . why get so upset about something that other people can't really change? That seems quite intolerant to me. Isn't the point of being a kid to have fun? GTA is fun to me, would have been fun to me when I was 9 as well. Let the kids have fun and why don't you try to be more mature, assuming you aren't also 9, and be calm, cool, and collected while you play your video game, you mature outstanding citizen.

[Smallz92]

lol i had a 9 yr old play on my team online it was the worst online game experience of my life !!!!!!!!!!!! all i heard was in a squeaky american voice im gunna kill you over and over again ! i lossed it and sed u cant f*ckin kill me im on your f*ckin team you very bad c word ! lol 

 

but i suppose it really does depend on maturity as there was a guy say 19 to 20 doing special ed throughout a whole game

How can you tell age through voice?

NOTICE SQUEAKY VOICE i could tell roughly that the person was nt over 10 for the reason of his maturity and he said you bum hole so i guess i jus thought 9

. . . why get so upset about something that other people can't really change? That seems quite intolerant to me. Isn't the point of being a kid to have fun? GTA is fun to me, would have been fun to me when I was 9 as well. Let the kids have fun and why don't you try to be more mature, assuming you aren't also 9, and be calm, cool, and collected while you play your video game, you mature outstanding citizen.

lol not throughout a whole game i have a screaming kid saying im gunna kill and he wasnt having fun he was purposely pissing me off like a dick and i didnt say its nt bad playing the game if your a kid and its on a game for f*ck sake dnt get soo preachy and political about being a good citizen jesus H Christ !

[SantiagoDomingo]

lol i had a 9 yr old play on my team online it was the worst online game experience of my life !!!!!!!!!!!! all i heard was in a squeaky american voice im gunna kill you over and over again ! i lossed it and sed u cant f*ckin kill me im on your f*ckin team you very bad c word ! lol 

 

but i suppose it really does depend on maturity as there was a guy say 19 to 20 doing special ed throughout a whole game

How can you tell age through voice?

NOTICE SQUEAKY VOICE i could tell roughly that the person was nt over 10 for the reason of his maturity and he said you bum hole so i guess i jus thought 9

. . . why get so upset about something that other people can't really change? That seems quite intolerant to me. Isn't the point of being a kid to have fun? GTA is fun to me, would have been fun to me when I was 9 as well. Let the kids have fun and why don't you try to be more mature, assuming you aren't also 9, and be calm, cool, and collected while you play your video game, you mature outstanding citizen.

lol not throughout a whole game i have a screaming kid saying im gunna kill and he wasnt having fun he was purposely pissing me off like a dick and i didnt say its nt bad playing the game if your a kid and its on a game for f*ck sake dnt get soo preachy and political about being a good citizen jesus H Christ !

Don't bring Jesus into this. You do realize that it is often times quite entertaining to bring pain, suffering, and misfortune to others? Younger children tend to agree with that more so than a mature adult, which sheds some light on the fact that most dictators/serial killers etc . . . are really children in adult bodies.

[drpacifist]

 

As it stands, I see a lot of forums (including this one) where a lot of underage kids are playing this game.  Do you think that Rockstar or the video game industry should make it harder for these players to play the game?  I think the game is rated over 18, so that is technically like a rated X movie.  I don't agree with that rating, but that is the rating nonetheless.  I know there are plenty of parents and friends buying this game for others, and it is getting into the hands of players that are under 18.  Should they implement some kind of age verification into the game to stop this?  It really doesn't bother me, but it might if I had kids.  I don't know how they could do some kind of verification except via the internet, but not everyone has internet.  Anyone else have any feelings on this?

What we really need is a fake story created by the media, or at least overblown, about the dangers of kiddies playing online with all of us old folk. Seriously blow it out of proportion. Make the parents really really scared. Then, we won't have to listen to kids screaming into mics anymore.

 

Although, I've played gta4 with at least one normal kid who could actually pay attention long enough to get the objectives complete, rather than drool on the mic.

[Tatertotts]

A friend's brother works closely with a criminal profiler for the FBI. He told me that , according to his brother, children exposed to large amounts of violence (of any kind either participating or observing) are much, much more likely to engage in violent activities when they are older

This is most likely true when you are talking about actual real-life violence, witnessed or participated in. Normal people can tell the difference between reality and fiction by the time they're 10.

 

A young person exposed to large amounts of real life violence is most likely watching his/her parents, siblings, and friends commit those violent acts. Those are the people we tend to be most like as we grow older. Movie and game characters, not so much.

[bblancobrnx]

Age verification would be pointless, kids would just put that they're 18, like every kid does when they sign up for forums or porn sites.

 

Any other ideas? Didn't think so.

Yes, you list your Name, birthdate, social security #, drivers license or state ID number. and 5 references. Everything is checked in the CIA database and if you pass you are allowed to play. However, no one with a felony can play because they might be inclined to take the game seriously since they obviously have no concept of right vs. wrong.

[XxLDCxX]

Im 16 and ive been playing GTA since i was about 11.My brother bought GTA III and it didnt appeal to me that much.But i replayed it when i was about 13 and i loved GTA since then.And when I see all these dumb things saying that video games are ruining "Childrens" minds and that the school shootings are because of violent video games I get upset because most of the people that shoot anyone are pure psycopaths period, but the media has to have some explanation as to why they did it so they choose video games.I think it is pure ridiculousnes(if thats even a word. lol) that they blame video games on murders that people commit...but whatever thats just me.

 

Personally im already in classes that relate to game design because thats what im going to college for and hopefully getting a career in.And these news storys of "games ruining kids minds" are just giving the video game career a bad name in general.

 

NOTE TO PARENTS: IF YOUR KID DOESNT HAVE A IQ ABOVE 70 DO NOT LET THEM GET M RATED GAMES!

 

Im done ranting...

[bblancobrnx]

A friend's brother works closely with a criminal profiler for the FBI.  He told me that , according to his brother, children exposed to large amounts of violence (of any kind either participating or observing) are much, much more likely to engage in violent activities when they are older

This is most likely true when you are talking about actual real-life violence, witnessed or participated in. Normal people can tell the difference between reality and fiction by the time they're 10.

 

A young person exposed to large amounts of real life violence is most likely watching his/her parents, siblings, and friends commit those violent acts. Those are the people we tend to be most like as we grow older. Movie and game characters, not so much.

I agree with you, but I think any kind of violence or glorification of violence can contribute to it. Obviously for someone to specifically blame a video game or games for violent or criminal activities is just plain ignorant. I do believe that it could be a contributing factor, though, just like being around family that does it, movies that glorify it, watching the news, watching any Forensic Files or other reality cop show, certain music and a whole list of other things too long to mention. The bottom line is that no one can blame games alone for it because there are FAR FAR FAR more game players who NEVER commit a crime than the very small percentage that do. There is not one person anywhere who is going to go from normal and sane to a complete psychopath from simply playing a video game. I guess some people are worried that kids do not posess the maturity to deal with the adult themes in the game. Most of us on this forum have been brought up right, and we know that this is fiction and the game world is often a FAR cry from the normal and acceptable world.

[Tatertotts]

I agree with you, but I think any kind of violence or glorification of violence can contribute to it. Obviously for someone to specifically blame a video game or games for violent or criminal activities is just plain ignorant. I do believe that it could be a contributing factor, though, just like being around family that does it, movies that glorify it, watching the news, watching any Forensic Files or other reality cop show, certain music and a whole list of other things too long to mention. The bottom line is that no one can blame games alone for it because there are FAR FAR FAR more game players who NEVER commit a crime than the very small percentage that do. There is not one person anywhere who is going to go from normal and sane to a complete psychopath from simply playing a video game. I guess some people are worried that kids do not posess the maturity to deal with the adult themes in the game. Most of us on this forum have been brought up right, and we know that this is fiction and the game world is often a FAR cry from the normal and acceptable world.

I was with you on the post before this one, but here, I couldn't disagree more. Not many kids are unexposed to fictional violence these days. And when I say "these days" I mean in our lifetime. We're about the same age, I think, and consider how much tv, movie, and game violence that we and our friends have been exposed to from a very early age. You even say it yourself, most of us just don't commit violent crimes -- if everyone exposed to it did, the US would be a lot more like GTA.

 

We grow up to be most like the people (yes, people, not characters) who are influential in our lives. Entertainment only influences the mentally instable. Real people influence everybody.

[bblancobrnx]

I was with you on the post before this one, but here, I couldn't disagree more. Not many kids are unexposed to fictional violence these days. And when I say "these days" I mean in our lifetime. We're about the same age, I think, and consider how much tv, movie, and game violence that we and our friends have been exposed to from a very early age. You even say it yourself, most of us just don't commit violent crimes -- if everyone exposed to it did, the US would be a lot more like GTA.

 

We grow up to be most like the people (yes, people, not characters) who are influential in our lives. Entertainment only influences the mentally instable. Real people influence everybody.

Yeah you are right. Like I said earlier in this thread, I think this game in particular really gives people an outlet for their frustrations. I think it is probably more healthy than letting it build up. Of course, there is a certain age that the game is not appropriate for (age at which someone does not understand the game or themes). The harder I think about it, the more I come to realise that most people I know played games all across the spectrum growing up, and the ones that are in jail now are the ones whose parents let them get away with anything and did very little parenting. Nothing can influence a child's core values more than their parents. I'm 32 and growing up the main gaming systems I had were PC and ColecoVision. My parents wouldn't buy me and my brother a NES, so we had to buy one ourselves. They also never bought cable TV while we were in the house. The result, more time spent outdoors, reading, and learning how to use a computer. I hated it at the time, but now I thank them for it.

[unoleian]

All it comes down to is the ability to discern fantasy from reality.

Some mindsets do have trouble with this, especially young minds.

All that's needed is someone to talk with, and ensure this young mind knows, and understands the critical differences between the two.

 

If they demonstrate that they get these major differences, all is well.

[Tatertotts]

I was with you on the post before this one, but here, I couldn't disagree more.  Not many kids are unexposed to fictional violence these days.  And when I say "these days" I mean in our lifetime.  We're about the same age, I think, and consider how much tv, movie, and game violence that we and our friends have been exposed to from a very early age.  You even say it yourself, most of us just don't commit violent crimes -- if everyone exposed to it did, the US would be a lot more like GTA.

 

We grow up to be most like the people (yes, people, not characters) who are influential in our lives.  Entertainment only influences the mentally instable.  Real people influence everybody.

Yeah you are right. Like I said earlier in this thread, I think this game in particular really gives people an outlet for their frustrations. I think it is probably more healthy than letting it build up. Of course, there is a certain age that the game is not appropriate for (age at which someone does not understand the game or themes). The harder I think about it, the more I come to realise that most people I know played games all across the spectrum growing up, and the ones that are in jail now are the ones whose parents let them get away with anything and did very little parenting. Nothing can influence a child's core values more than their parents. I'm 32 and growing up the main gaming systems I had were PC and ColecoVision. My parents wouldn't buy me and my brother a NES, so we had to buy one ourselves. They also never bought cable TV while we were in the house. The result, more time spent outdoors, reading, and learning how to use a computer. I hated it at the time, but now I thank them for it.

Damn, I was with you again until the very end. ColecoVision blows. Atari 2600 FTW!!1!!eleven!!

[Ondori412]

 

This topic is actually pointless, what have underage players ever done to you? You just sound like some jerk who wants to take away all the little kids' fun...

 

what have they ever done to us? LET'S SEE!

 

1. the xbox live prepubescent 12 year old: it shouts racial obscenities and homophobic comments into the microphone much like your young adult aged 18-25 would, except they're a lot younger

 

2. their voice.. it's just so.. ugh

 

3. they NEVER do as they're told, when mom comes into the room and asks little billy to wash the dishes or gets little timmy to clean his room, they go into insubordinate mode, if i had a nickel for every time i've heard a 12 year old tell off his mom because he was too busy PWNING TEH NUBZZ on COD4.. well i'd have a lot of nickels.

[bblancobrnx]

 

Damn, I was with you again until the very end.  ColecoVision blows.  Atari 2600 FTW!!1!!eleven!!

Hey, I always wanted Atari. Don't rub it in! My uncle had the higher end Atari (5200 I think), but the system we got wasn't my or my brother's choice. Atarti had ALL the games. Coleco had mostly crappy games and a WEIRD controller. But we still enjoyed it. It was WAY better than nothing. We got a LOT more use out of the PC, though. The favorites were Sierra adventure games. I had almost all of them. With our old RGB monitor (3 colors) and nothing more than a 5 1/4" floppy drive. That baby ran at 4.77 mHz. No hard drive whatsoever! Completely DOS based. The games were a blast, though. Most of my friends had Atari, with a hundred or so games, so we got to play them at least. LOL, I'm just remembering the old Colecovision controller. With the numbers and weird stick with the giant round top!!! By the time we were old enough to have money to buy our own console, it was the NES all the way. Atari was done.

 

Edited June 5, 2008 by bblancobrnx