Do you smoke?

[Otter]

Plus, I live in an apartment. You can sure as f*ck bet that I wont be growing a crop in here.

[painkiller47]

 

There is where we differ. I don't really see people buying from the government, when they can grow it themselves. They would have a personal stash, that would be a lot cheaper than buying the regulated stuff.

But it would take time and patience which many people don't have and would choose to buy instead of growing.

Once they waste enough money purchasing, they will find the truths about having a crop. I know I did. With a little time and patience, it isn't very hard. Plus, there would still be an influx of illegal sellers trying to make some cash, so that would also take some green from the government.

 

EDIT: Otter, got a spare closet? That is all it takes. I can give you some tips to set up a small, semi-hydro crop in one of your spare closets.

[AZSupraT]

I meant that the government literally would make no money out of weed becoming legalized.

 

You think america has a lot of taxes? That's because you haven't ever even skimmed below Mexico. Central and South America have taxes that tax other taxes.

 

I think dope dealers themselves dont want pot legal. Its another item on the list that they wont smuggle and sell any longer. The trafficants even pay the government (something that has happened in some countries in South America) to keep it illegal, seeing as profit from it would be almost zero, since control of drugs in those countries arent the best.

 

Of course the USA wont legalize it because of the various task forces and obviously the DEA. These activities finance it. This is something related to piracy as well. Weed will only become legal in some countries, mostly 3rd and 2nd world ones, if ever. First world countries will seize doing this, because of economical values and political reasons.

[Digïtál £vîl]

Digital Evil, we see it different because the way we view the world. I have an extreme negative outlook on life, thinking that the government is power/money hungry. I am fine with it illegal, since I can get it as it is, for cheaper than if it was legal.

I can guarantee you that marijuana will not cost more if it were legalized unless the government purposely taxed it like it does now with cigarettes. My knowledge of how open markets work and such make that clear to me.

 

First off, if it were legalized, many people (particularly in California) who have been growing it already will branch out and make a legal business out of it. This will increase the supply and quality of marijuana as people will no longer be forced to hide their crops or cut corners for a faster, less effective harvest.

 

Because this increased supply exists, it will lower the price per gram as demand for marijuana will likely only increase by a marginal amount in comparison (by those who wanted to smoke but did not do so simply because it was illegal before).

 

The result will be lots of small growers and dealers who have turned entrepreneur and start growing and selling it legally. This will mean that people have more options for selection as well as price and quality.

 

Overall, the only issue with legalization of it would be potential excessive taxation by the government for the "drug" and the fact that it would be difficult for the government to initially completely convert the weed selling business into a legal one. Since so many people are used to dealing under the table already, they will not wish to share their profits with others. The only problem with this thought process is the fact that since prices will fall (as more people start supplying it), the illegal dealers will be forced to either stop dealing completely or convert their business to a legal one as the profit margin will dip significantly and the only way to start making real "illegal" money off of it would be by selling for less then the "legal" price. It wont be as terrible as you may assume it will be.

 

I too am hesitant about corporate influence on something like this. But right now some (and I mean only "some", not all) marijuana cultivation and selling is actually done by underground groups very much like corporations (usually related to drug cartels). I'd rather put my trust in a corporation that can be held legally accountable for their actions then one that is done underground and illegally without any control over consequences from their actions.

[painkiller47]

But that is only IF the government doesn't regulate it like I think they would. Even if the government didn't intervene, I still don't see prices going down. I see them going up, with all the new open competition, and since they can now sell it legally, they would do what they wanted.

 

I used to watch this show, it is an irrelevant show, but one episode they had something about a Diamond Cartel. They said that diamonds alone are worthless, but since there is a cartel controlling how many are released, they are seemed to be worth something. The cartel would slowly release diamonds over time, making them seem like they are important. Just like the Wii, what people can't have, they want more.

 

Once it is legal, all hell will brake lose. But I still believe it is because of our outlooks, is why we differ on this issue. I have no faith in humanity, so legalization is a bad idea to me.

 

Also, you said you would rather have faith in corporations, I am the exact opposite. I trust the common folk more than the CEOs of some company trying to get richer. They both will screw over people to make money, but I would rather have someone close to me do it than some random dick wad sitting on the 50th floor of his skyscraper counting his cash.

 

All comes down to our personal beliefs. I, for one, am for anarchy-communism, while you seem to favor capitalism/democracy.

Edited May 26, 2008 by painkiller47

[Digïtál £vîl]

 

But that is only IF the government doesn't regulate it like I think they would. Even if the government didn't intervene, I still don't see prices going down. I see them going up, with all the new open competition, and since they can now sell it legally, they would do what they wanted.

 

I used to watch this show, it is an irrelevant show, but one episode they had something about a Diamond Cartel. They said that diamonds alone are worthless, but since there is a cartel controlling how many are released, they are seemed to be worth something. The cartel would slowly release diamonds over time, making them seem like they are important. Just like the Wii, what people can't have, they want more.

 

Once it is legal, all hell will brake lose. But I still believe it is because of our outlooks, is why we differ on this issue. I have no faith in humanity, so legalization is a bad idea to me.

You need to educate yourself some more, man.

 

Your comment on the prices going up because of increased competition makes no sense. Have you ever taken a simple economics class? We know just from those early classes that what you are saying could NEVER happen. On top of that, we have legal regulations in place to prevent anyone who decided to try to go against the natural motion of the economy.

 

Additionally, comparing the Diamond Cartel to anything with marijuana is beyond extreme. First, natural diamonds are of extreme limited resources. They are created in the ground over a long period of time and you can not "grow" natural diamonds. Cannabis is a plant. In fact, it is a weed. It would be impossible to actually regulate the growth of it in the sense that diamond cartels can.

 

The most that the government can do if they legalize the growth, sale, and use of marijuana is impose additional taxes on it. They will have little success in actually regulating the plant themselves. Just like they are having now when it is completely illegal.

 

I understand that we may have differing views on humanity (although not really. I consider most people on this planet to be complete morons). But when it comes to this case, it is simply a matter of looking at the facts and using common knowledge on how markets and economies work to see how it will end up. Little opinion can be connected to it.

[unopescio]

You are of course assuming that the government would let people grow the plants themselves. Why would they do that when they could sell licences to people to grow and sell it, put huge taxes on it, and regulate the THC content?

[painkiller47]

Cannabis is a plant. In fact, it is a weed. It would be impossible to actual regulate the growth of it in the sense that diamond cartels can.

 

Fear. That is what the government is using now, people are afraid of jail time and getting caught. That is all the government needs to help regulate a plant.

 

 

 

Your comment on the prices going up because of increased competition makes no sense. Have you ever taken a simple economics class? We know just from those early classes that what you are saying could NEVER happen. On top of that, we have legal regulations in place to prevent anyone who decided to try to go against the natural motion of the economy.

 

I know exactly what you mean. I have hundreds of thoughts running through my mind, and I was going to say something else, but thought of something. Like I said, my mind is jaded and overwhelmed. I have an idea, but I cannot put it to words right now, sorry for this. I will get back to you on this issue once I sober up, sorry man.

 

 

The most that the government can do if they legalize the growth, sale, and use of marijuana is impose additional taxes on it. They will have little success in actually regulating the plant themselves. Just like they are having now when it is completely illegal.

 

But in Cali, where I am assuming you reside, the law is different. In the rest of the USA, it isn't as easy to access weed. And when you do get it, it is nowhere comparable to California bud. Cali isn't a good example to use for the rest of the USA.

 

 

I understand that we may have differing views on humanity (although not really. I consider most people on this planet to be complete morons). But when it comes to this case, it is simply a matter of looking at the facts and using common knowledge on how markets and economies work to see how it will end up. Little opinion can be connected to it.

 

I am with you on that. I know exactly what I am talking about, but I cannot type fast enough to get my thoughts in line. I know I am coming off as a complete dumbass, but I a fairly well educated.

 

 

EDIT: Thank you OnePiece, I was trying to hard to say that. The government would regulate the f*ck out of it.

[Digïtál £vîl]

You are of course assuming that the government would let people grow the plants themselves. Why would they do that when they could sell licences to people to grow and sell it, put huge taxes on it, and regulate the THC content?

I don't see how they could possibly do all of that legally. And this is coming from someone who is focusing their entire career on commercial (business) law.

 

They could regulate some stuff. But if they legalized it, I really can't see them regulating it at that level. It wouldn't work at all.

[painkiller47]

You are of course assuming that the government would let people grow the plants themselves. Why would they do that when they could sell licences to people to grow and sell it, put huge taxes on it, and regulate the THC content?

I don't see how they could possibly do all of that legally. And this is coming from someone who is focusing their entire career on commercial (business) law.

 

They could regulate some stuff. But if they legalized it, I really can't see them regulating it at that level. It wouldn't work at all.

With legalization, I am sure they would come up with a hundred laws about what you cannot do with it. I can see them enforcing the laws, the government is very powerful. They make the laws, they can regulate it however they want.

 

(This is coming from a person Majoring in Political Science btw, I am just super stoned right now, had some dank Kush soaked in Hash Oil. Mmmmmm...)

 

 

[AZSupraT]

The prices of weed wont become high at all. They would simply shorten the amount of weed in each cigarette to profit out of it.

 

Selling weed is something very relative. The ones who will suffer the most are the intermediates, who get it from the producer to the consumer. That's their business, they smuggle.

 

By logic, if you legalize marijuana, you'd have to legalize haxixe as well. Because after all, it's a type of smoke.

[Digïtál £vîl]

You are of course assuming that the government would let people grow the plants themselves. Why would they do that when they could sell licences to people to grow and sell it, put huge taxes on it, and regulate the THC content?

I don't see how they could possibly do all of that legally. And this is coming from someone who is focusing their entire career on commercial (business) law.

 

They could regulate some stuff. But if they legalized it, I really can't see them regulating it at that level. It wouldn't work at all.

With legalization, I am sure they would come up with a hundred laws about what you cannot do with it. I can see them enforcing the laws, the government is very powerful. They make the laws, they can regulate it however they want.

 

(This is coming from a person Majoring in Political Science btw, I am just super stoned right now, had some dank Kush soaked in Hash Oil. Mmmmmm...)

Well, you'd think that someone who is in Law (like myself) and someone who is in political science (like yourself) could team up to make a difference. Eh?

 

[painkiller47]

You are of course assuming that the government would let people grow the plants themselves. Why would they do that when they could sell licences to people to grow and sell it, put huge taxes on it, and regulate the THC content?

I don't see how they could possibly do all of that legally. And this is coming from someone who is focusing their entire career on commercial (business) law.

 

They could regulate some stuff. But if they legalized it, I really can't see them regulating it at that level. It wouldn't work at all.

With legalization, I am sure they would come up with a hundred laws about what you cannot do with it. I can see them enforcing the laws, the government is very powerful. They make the laws, they can regulate it however they want.

 

(This is coming from a person Majoring in Political Science btw, I am just super stoned right now, had some dank Kush soaked in Hash Oil. Mmmmmm...)

Well, you'd think that someone who is in Law (like myself) and someone who is in political science (like yourself) could team up to make a difference. Eh?

 

That is what I plan on doing. I am down for the cause.

 

I aim to make a change in this world, open people's eyes to the atrocities of this nation. I plan on being a politician, but no where near as corrupt. Just think of the stories you could tell, you met the president on GTAforums.com lol

 

 

[Digïtál £vîl]

You are of course assuming that the government would let people grow the plants themselves. Why would they do that when they could sell licences to people to grow and sell it, put huge taxes on it, and regulate the THC content?

I don't see how they could possibly do all of that legally. And this is coming from someone who is focusing their entire career on commercial (business) law.

 

They could regulate some stuff. But if they legalized it, I really can't see them regulating it at that level. It wouldn't work at all.

With legalization, I am sure they would come up with a hundred laws about what you cannot do with it. I can see them enforcing the laws, the government is very powerful. They make the laws, they can regulate it however they want.

 

(This is coming from a person Majoring in Political Science btw, I am just super stoned right now, had some dank Kush soaked in Hash Oil. Mmmmmm...)

Well, you'd think that someone who is in Law (like myself) and someone who is in political science (like yourself) could team up to make a difference. Eh?

 

That is what I plan on doing. I am down for the cause.

 

I aim to make a change in this world, open people's eyes to the atrocities of this nation. I plan on being a politician, but no where near as corrupt. Just think of the stories you could tell, you met the president on GTAforums.com lol

People have already met the future emperor of the world.

 

 

Digïtál £vîl points to himself

 

I kid, I kid..

[painkiller47]

Looks like I may have some competition on my way to Dictator of Earth... We will see who is the greater person then.

 

 

me

[AZSupraT]

I simply cannot imagine the President making a speech annoucing he was painkiller47 on gtaforums.com.

[painkiller47]

I simply cannot imagine the President making a speech annoucing he was painkiller47 on gtaforums.com.

Why not though? I believe what this nation needs is the common man. Someone well educated, but knows how it is to be middle class. Someone up on technology and how the world works. We need people who aren't hiding behind stacks of money, using war to complete a hidden agenda.

 

I fit that role. My dad, a convicted felon, both parents middle class. I am common.

[Banana Face]

i started a 14

[Eagleheart]

I simply cannot imagine the President making a speech annoucing he was painkiller47 on gtaforums.com.

Why not though? I believe what this nation needs is the common man. Someone well educated, but knows how it is to be middle class. Someone up on technology and how the world works. We need people who aren't hiding behind stacks of money, using war to complete a hidden agenda.

 

I fit that role. My dad, a convicted felon, both parents middle class. I am common.

Common doesn't win elections. Rich, white, and male wins elections. The top 5% of our population is what represents us in our government.

[painkiller47]

I simply cannot imagine the President making a speech annoucing he was painkiller47 on gtaforums.com.

Why not though? I believe what this nation needs is the common man. Someone well educated, but knows how it is to be middle class. Someone up on technology and how the world works. We need people who aren't hiding behind stacks of money, using war to complete a hidden agenda.

 

I fit that role. My dad, a convicted felon, both parents middle class. I am common.

Common doesn't win elections. Rich, white, and male wins elections. The top 5% of our population is what represents us in our government.

Christian too. Don't forget you have to be Christian. All presidents but 2, I think, have been White, Male, Christians. I seriously think I could be president and do a better job than at least half of the other presidents before us. We need a change, fast. This election alone is a landmark opportunity, but it will be wasted on McCain, unfortunately.

[raresh_r]

smoking sucks. you loose your sport performance because of it (i have tested it whit a friend)

[Gouveia]

Only once, my uncle had some Mary's being planted on his yard, and he collected some and it was a whole lot of Mary's for everyone. No chemicals, just the natural thing.

 

Never gonna smoke the one that's sold on the streets, the one with chemicals, tho'.

[nlitement]

Only once, my uncle had some Mary's being planted on his yard, and he collected some and it was a whole lot of Mary's for everyone. No chemicals, just the natural thing.

 

Never gonna smoke the one that's sold on the streets, the one with chemicals, tho'.

Every plant consists of complex chemicals. I also don't see how w33d can have any effect on you without THC.

[Digïtál £vîl]

Only once, my uncle had some Mary's being planted on his yard, and he collected some and it was a whole lot of Mary's for everyone. No chemicals, just the natural thing.

 

Never gonna smoke the one that's sold on the streets, the one with chemicals, tho'.

Every plant consists of complex chemicals. I also don't see how w33d can have any effect on you without THC.

Marijuana without THC content could be considered Hemp and would be completely useless to smoke.

[painkiller47]

Only once, my uncle had some Mary's being planted on his yard, and he collected some and it was a whole lot of Mary's for everyone. No chemicals, just the natural thing.

 

Never gonna smoke the one that's sold on the streets, the one with chemicals, tho'.

Every plant consists of complex chemicals. I also don't see how w33d can have any effect on you without THC.

Marijuana without THC content could be considered Hemp and would be completely useless to smoke.

That is what he is saying. Marijuana is grown with natural chemicals, just like tobacco is grown with natural nicotine in it. People don't realize this and say since it is a plant it is "harmless." Though it may be harmless, it isn't because it is a plant.

 

Look at Jimson Weed, or Hells Bells, or whatever you want to call it. Jimson Weed is deadly, but it is a plant.

[Digïtál £vîl]

Only once, my uncle had some Mary's being planted on his yard, and he collected some and it was a whole lot of Mary's for everyone. No chemicals, just the natural thing.

 

Never gonna smoke the one that's sold on the streets, the one with chemicals, tho'.

Every plant consists of complex chemicals. I also don't see how w33d can have any effect on you without THC.

Marijuana without THC content could be considered Hemp and would be completely useless to smoke.

That is what he is saying. Marijuana is grown with natural chemicals, just like tobacco is grown with natural nicotine in it. People don't realize this and say since it is a plant it is "harmless." Though it may be harmless, it isn't because it is a plant.

 

Look at Jimson Weed, or Hells Bells, or whatever you want to call it. Jimson Weed is deadly, but it is a plant.

What do you mean by "natural chemicals"? Cultivation of marijuana can be done with completely organic nutrients if a person wishes to. If not, the fertilizers used are usually similar to the types used for vegetable crops such as tomatoes. Which are mor then acceptable. However, corporate tobacco crops often use semi-dangerous pesticides and chemicals on their plants. Regardless of THC content or nicotine, neither of which are a danger in itself. The thing that makes cigs so dangerous are the additional chemicals and tar put into the cigarettes themselves for commercial products. Natural tobacco cigarettes are not anywhere as bad as commercial processed cigarettes. Weed is completely separate in comparison as you usually receive the plant's flower (the bud) directly and do not purchase pre-rolled, processed marijuana joints/cigarettes.

 

I really can't see an equal comparison happening.

 

If you are specifically speaking of THC content. Anyone who raids a commercial hemp crop is a complete idiot. Hemp is an amazing plant but not for smoking. THC is not a dangerous chemical though. So it seems like you are just going in circles with stuff.

[ELGABORS]

Today.

[Reimer.]

 

Only once, my uncle had some Mary's being planted on his yard, and he collected some and it was a whole lot of Mary's for everyone. No chemicals, just the natural thing.

 

Never gonna smoke the one that's sold on the streets, the one with chemicals, tho'.

Every plant consists of complex chemicals. I also don't see how w33d can have any effect on you without THC.

Marijuana without THC content could be considered Hemp and would be completely useless to smoke.

That is what he is saying. Marijuana is grown with natural chemicals, just like tobacco is grown with natural nicotine in it. People don't realize this and say since it is a plant it is "harmless." Though it may be harmless, it isn't because it is a plant.

 

Look at Jimson Weed, or Hells Bells, or whatever you want to call it. Jimson Weed is deadly, but it is a plant.

What do you mean by "natural chemicals"? Cultivation of marijuana can be done with completely organic nutrients if a person wishes to. If not, the fertilizers used are usually similar to the types used for vegetable crops such as tomatoes. Which are mor then acceptable. However, corporate tobacco crops often use semi-dangerous pesticides and chemicals on their plants. Regardless of THC content or nicotine, neither of which are a danger in itself. The thing that makes cigs so dangerous are the additional chemicals and tar put into the cigarettes themselves for commercial products. Natural tobacco cigarettes are not anywhere as bad as commercial processed cigarettes. Weed is completely separate in comparison as you usually receive the plant's flower (the bud) directly and do not purchase pre-rolled, processed marijuana joints/cigarettes.

 

I really can't see an equal comparison happening.

 

If you are specifically speaking of THC content. Anyone who raids a commercial hemp crop is a complete idiot. Hemp is an amazing plant but not for smoking. THC is not a dangerous chemical though. So it seems like you are just going in circles with stuff.

The act of burning the plant material results in a reaction which produces over 4,000 chemicals. (You can find the list of all of them with a quick google) The same goes with anything you decide to burn and inhale. It doesn't matter how many pesticides or chemicals are applied to the plants when they're being cultivated.

 

All chemicals are found in nature through different reactions. So therefore all chemicals are "natural chemicals".

 

Edit: Around 400 chemicals are released when cannabis is burned, something like 60 of them are cannabinoids... the rest would be potentially dangerous adulterants.

Edited May 28, 2008 by Reimer.

[AZSupraT]

words.

And have you ever thought of how many chemicals are released when you turn on your car, or how many chemicals does a factory release, or even a fast food outlet?

 

We're all f*cking the o-zone. Smokers, and non-smokers. It's all the same.

 

I can say if you smoke a cigarette, you'll release even more chemicals than smoking weed. Cigarettes have chemicals even in the paper, and the filter. Weed is different.

 

 

[painkiller47]

words.

And have you ever thought of how many chemicals are released when you turn on your car, or how many chemicals does a factory release, or even a fast food outlet?

 

We're all f*cking the o-zone. Smokers, and non-smokers. It's all the same.

 

I can say if you smoke a cigarette, you'll release even more chemicals than smoking weed. Cigarettes have chemicals even in the paper, and the filter. Weed is different.

He was just backing up what I said. Not really saying anything bad, I just pointed out natural marijuana has natural chemicals in it, we are just trying to inform. But you are also right, smokers aren't messing with the ozone as much as cars...