GTA IV: A step backwards?

[i-cup]

and so il ask u - what vehicle content has replaced all this ?

 

to make the series a step foward in terms of its vehicle additions to the series ?

 

Dukes

Futo

Oracle

Dilettante

Sultan RS (Just for you car mod whiners)

DB6-89 (I think that's what it's called)

 

To be honest I can't think of many more as I stopped paying attention to what the cars were called quite early in the game when I realised I didn't care.

totally of the mark ....

 

content i-cup - not types of vehicles -

 

as in what variations of content such as stealing cars via text - car modifcations for which there arent any that the game player can control -

 

what new vehichle content has been added to the series in 4 that was not in past GTA's = excluding euphoria damage which they acquired and is to be expected - new damage in a new game.

 

oh yes - carswashes - cant think of any more -

 

apart from gps which is a natural progression from a standard waypoint

 

and quote " Sultan RS (Just for you car mod whiners)"

its surprsing how the modded cars seem to be most peoples favs ...

I seriously have trouble reading what you're saying. Could you maybe run it through Google Translator again? It might give a better result.

[Hove_Beach]

and so il ask u - what vehicle content has replaced all this ?

 

to make the series a step foward in terms of its vehicle additions to the series ?

 

Dukes

Futo

Oracle

Dilettante

Sultan RS (Just for you car mod whiners)

DB6-89 (I think that's what it's called)

 

To be honest I can't think of many more as I stopped paying attention to what the cars were called quite early in the game when I realised I didn't care.

totally of the mark ....

 

content i-cup - not types of vehicles -

 

as in what variations of content such as stealing cars via text - car modifcations for which there arent any that the game player can control -

 

what new vehichle content has been added to the series in 4 that was not in past GTA's = excluding euphoria damage which they acquired and is to be expected - new damage in a new game.

 

oh yes - carswashes - cant think of any more -

 

apart from gps which is a natural progression from a standard waypoint

 

and quote " Sultan RS (Just for you car mod whiners)"

its surprsing how the modded cars seem to be most peoples favs ...

I seriously have trouble reading what you're saying. Could you maybe run it through Google Translator again? It might give a better result.

lol -

 

fanboi -

 

what new vehichle content has been added to the series in 4 that was not in past GTA's not a list of what new cars was included

 

 

[i-cup]

and so il ask u - what vehicle content has replaced all this ?

 

to make the series a step foward in terms of its vehicle additions to the series ?

 

Dukes

Futo

Oracle

Dilettante

Sultan RS (Just for you car mod whiners)

DB6-89 (I think that's what it's called)

 

To be honest I can't think of many more as I stopped paying attention to what the cars were called quite early in the game when I realised I didn't care.

totally of the mark ....

 

content i-cup - not types of vehicles -

 

as in what variations of content such as stealing cars via text - car modifcations for which there arent any that the game player can control -

 

what new vehichle content has been added to the series in 4 that was not in past GTA's = excluding euphoria damage which they acquired and is to be expected - new damage in a new game.

 

oh yes - carswashes - cant think of any more -

 

apart from gps which is a natural progression from a standard waypoint

 

and quote " Sultan RS (Just for you car mod whiners)"

its surprsing how the modded cars seem to be most peoples favs ...

I seriously have trouble reading what you're saying. Could you maybe run it through Google Translator again? It might give a better result.

lol -

 

fanboi -

 

what new vehichle content has been added to the series in 4 that was not in past GTA's not a list of what new cars was included

What was added?

Euphoria

 

What was taken out?

Car modding

 

 

DO PEOPLE SEE WHY IT WAS TAKEN OUT? It's not that hard to understand.

[jonnyeatsbeef]

Ive completed the game and to be honest i am disapointed, not because of the size because i think the size is perfect for the game

But really because of how short the story line is .

i stopped playing it last week just of sheer bordum and i am totali dissapointed but of what you play its amazing but i just waanted 2 be amazed for longer

[i-cup]

Ive completed the game and to be honest i am disapointed, not because of the size because i think the size is perfect for the game

But really because of how short the story line is .

i stopped playing it last week just of sheer bordum and i am totali dissapointed but of what you play its amazing but i just waanted 2 be amazed for longer

It's longer than San Andreas.

[jonnyeatsbeef]

didnt seem it 1 bit

Also most missons were the same on IV

Its just chase sum1 in a car and then kill them and there crew

[Hove_Beach]

What was added?

Euphoria

 

What was taken out?

Car modding

 

 

huge list of new additions to the series - wow R*

 

What was taken out? car modification.

 

well i cup, its actually left in on certain vehicles - its just not user controlled or controllable in a mod shop for some strange reason

[i-cup]

What was added?

Euphoria

 

What was taken out?

Car modding

 

 

huge list of new additions to the series - wow R*

 

What was taken out? car modification.

 

well i cup, its actually left in on certain vehicles - its just not user controlled or controllable in a mod shop for some strange reason

Are you blind to the reason why there is no car modding and why there will likely never be car modding?

 

Euphoria.

 

But by your logic of "Wow, nothing much added." it can also be said "Wow, nothing much removed."

[Hove_Beach]

What was added?

Euphoria

 

What was taken out?

Car modding

 

 

huge list of new additions to the series - wow R*

 

What was taken out? car modification.

 

well i cup, its actually left in on certain vehicles - its just not user controlled or controllable in a mod shop for some strange reason

Are you blind to the reason why there is no car modding and why there will likely never be car modding?

 

Euphoria.

 

But by your logic of "Wow, nothing much added." it can also be said "Wow, nothing much removed."

quote

Euphoria is a game animation engine created by NaturalMotion based on Dynamic Motion Synthesis, NaturalMotion's proprietary technology for animating 3D characters on-the-fly "based on a full simulation of the 3D character, including body, muscles and motor nervous system".[1] Instead of using predefined animations, the characters' actions and reactions are synthesized in real-time;

 

I would assume Euphoria could cope with generating car mod code 'on the fly' in gta just as it will with presumed new cars in the DLC ? and as i pointed out already there are a few mods in the game that euphoria copes with ?

 

what about car mods make it so hard if euphoria is included in the game ? ur point doesnt hold no weight or sense !

[Signor Vercetti]

Ahhh, yes. The humble opinion of the guy who has not played the game but spends all his time on internet forums saying it sucks. A classic.

 

Get a console and play the damn game.

Umm, no I am not saying that it sucks and I've not made more than three posts about the game, but compared to San Andreas's sprawling area of countryside (complete with towns), motorways, as well as three sizeable cities, it feels like a let down to be stuck with only one city again (and not that large either, as someone else said here) and I'd argue the case with anyone. Put simply, a whole state full of stuff to do beats one city full of stuff to do. I also don't get the reason for returning to Liberty City, the dullest and colourless city in any of the games. I think the GTA series needs to get out of the USA for the next installment, otherwise it's just getting a bit old for me. Obviously, I'd love London (look at how good GTA London was), but there are other places it could go, Italy - the home of the Mafia for example. It's just getting a bit boring being set in the states all the time and the makers are British, for God's sake!

 

Also, as for 'get a console and play the damn game', I have a PS3, but I refuse to pay £40 + for one game, I wait for them to come down. At least on PC, you can grab a new release for around £25 at play.com for example, but £40 + for one game? Ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that the PC version will doubtless be superior to the console versions, as all other GTA games have been. Can you mod console GTA? No.

 

 

[i-cup]

What was added?

Euphoria

 

What was taken out?

Car modding

 

 

huge list of new additions to the series - wow R*

 

What was taken out? car modification.

 

well i cup, its actually left in on certain vehicles - its just not user controlled or controllable in a mod shop for some strange reason

Are you blind to the reason why there is no car modding and why there will likely never be car modding?

 

Euphoria.

 

But by your logic of "Wow, nothing much added." it can also be said "Wow, nothing much removed."

quote

Euphoria is a game animation engine created by NaturalMotion based on Dynamic Motion Synthesis, NaturalMotion's proprietary technology for animating 3D characters on-the-fly "based on a full simulation of the 3D character, including body, muscles and motor nervous system".[1] Instead of using predefined animations, the characters' actions and reactions are synthesized in real-time;

 

I would assume Euphoria could cope with generating car mod code 'on the fly' in gta just as it will with presumed new cars in the DLC ? and as i pointed out already there are a few mods in the game that euphoria copes with ?

 

what about car mods make it so hard if euphoria is included in the game ? ur point doesnt hold no weight or sense !

It does when you stop to think for a second. Euphoria now has to check each car for modification variables when damage is applied. This would likely (I'm not sure) need an edit to the code to make it applicable.

[Signor Vercetti]

Im a bit tired of it always have to be USA or England it sets foot in.. Try some new countries for a change

Umm, it's only ever been set in England once and that was in the top-down days (GTA London).

 

As for the argument about the police not being able to shoot in London, well, just bend the rules a bit. They did shoot in GTA London.

 

On this topic, hasn't anyone released some sort of London mod for GTA? I've heard of other mods that introduce brand new cities, so why not London?

[GTAfanatical]

if the engine can do realistic damage to any car models they added in the game im sure it can do the same damage to things you stick on the cars

[i-cup]

if the engine can do realistic damage to any car models they added in the game im sure it can do the same damage to things you stick on the cars

You're missing the point. Part of the code would have to be re-written to check for two possible car structures of the same model with a multitude of different options.

 

I can't really be bothered going into detail about explain the idea (whether it's right or wrong I don't know) because I honestly don't care. Maybe someone else can be bothered?

[Tornadium]

Hokay,

 

Well ill try to explain what i think i-cup means.

 

Pretty much Euphoria takes a sh*t load of variables into account to calculate the outcomes of a certain incident or in this case a simulation of a crash. (Im not sure if it is Euphoria it could be another engine working along side it because as far as im aware Euphoria is AI not material simulation).

 

Now, In one crash there is a sh*t load of code, Somthing like 500 lines of code for ONE single part of the car. This is measuring things like Speed, Material Density, Force Focal Point ect. Now, The engine is under more stress the more lines of code you include in this. We already know there are storage issues with GTA IV on the 360 if i recall correctly so adding a sh*t load more variables into this system for each individual part. Say a new bonnet of a car for example. For that part alone there would probably be upwards of 4000 lines of individual code for the simulations it may have to run. Each of these also has different pre programmed variables and set rules based on the way it was programmed. In this case realistic car damage would take into account real characteristics of metal.

 

In short, The more things you add the more variables and code is needed in case the outcome is needed to be processed. This in turn = more data required to be stored = Less disk space. The engine would be put under tremendous stress if you have a fully modded car with so many variables thrown into it.

[i-cup]

Hokay,

 

Well ill try to explain what i think i-cup means.

 

Pretty much Euphoria takes a sh*t load of variables into account to calculate the outcomes of a certain incident or in this case a simulation of a crash. (Im not sure if it is Euphoria it could be another engine working along side it because as far as im aware Euphoria is AI not material simulation).

 

Now, In one crash there is a sh*t load of code, Somthing like 500 lines of code for ONE single part of the car. This is measuring things like Speed, Material Density, Force Focal Point ect. Now, The engine is under more stress the more lines of code you include in this. We already know there are storage issues with GTA IV on the 360 if i recall correctly so adding a sh*t load more variables into this system for each individual part. Say a new bonnet of a car for example. For that part alone there would probably be upwards of 4000 lines of individual code for the simulations it may have to run. Each of these also has different pre programmed variables and set rules based on the way it was programmed. In this case realistic car damage would take into account real characteristics of metal.

 

In short, The more things you add the more variables and code is needed in case the outcome is needed to be processed. This in turn = more data required to be stored = Less disk space. The engine would be put under tremendous stress if you have a fully modded car with so many variables thrown into it.

Thanks for writing was I was to lazy to do. And quite well written might I add.

[GTAfanatical]

if you replace parts your not adding extra code to the car it'l be the same

 

 

[Tornadium]

 

if you replace parts your not adding extra code to the car it'l be the same

Actually no it won't. The materials used in certain parts of cars were different if i recall correctly from SA. Also the shape of each individual piece also has individual characteristics.

 

 

 

Thanks for writing was I was to lazy to do. And quite well written might I add.

 

No problem.

[GTAfanatical]

im sure they can make it despite what ya keep saying

 

im not quite sure what the issues with the 360 comment was, works flawlessly for me

[Tornadium]

im sure they can make it despite what ya keep saying

 

im not quite sure what the issues with the 360 comment was, works flawlessly for me

Storage space on the DVDs.

 

They probably could just keep the same characteristics for the modded car parts however it may look dumb. I have no idea exactly how Euphoria works however i can make a decent guess. For example, Say the bonnet has raised parts and it gets dented, If you keep the same characteristics as a flat bonnet then you will see parts where the textures split apart because the engine thinks that the surface is flat. So in theory you would see right through the front of the car where the texture splits.

[Tornadium]

im sure they can make it despite what ya keep saying

 

im not quite sure what the issues with the 360 comment was, works flawlessly for me

Storage space on the DVDs.

 

They probably could just keep the same characteristics for the modded car parts however it may look dumb. I have no idea exactly how Euphoria works however i can make a decent guess. For example, Say the bonnet has raised parts and it gets dented, If you keep the same characteristics as a flat bonnet then you will see parts where the textures split apart because the engine thinks that the surface is flat. So in theory you would see right through the front of the car where the texture splits.

[wayninja]

Your analogy sucks as much ass as your argument.

 

GTA IV was designed with adults in mind as it's an ADULT game. It seems to be a popular trend among the teens to bitch and complain their favorite activity of getting their hair cut/getting a tattoo/dancing/<random pointless filler sh*t here> got taken out of the game.

 

Guess what, you can do that in real life! It's not illegal! So go outside and do it!

So all of that stuff is pointless filler but changing clothes, bowling and dating are essential to GTA? Your counter argument sucks ass.

[wayninja]

 

It does when you stop to think for a second. Euphoria now has to check each car for modification variables when damage is applied. This would likely (I'm not sure) need an edit to the code to make it applicable.

Huh? What car modification variable? There is no car modification.

 

At least you admit you don't know what you are talking about instead of making silly matter-fact-statements like '(GTA VI)... is longer than San Andreas'.

[Tornadium]

 

Your analogy sucks as much ass as your argument.

 

GTA IV was designed with adults in mind as it's an ADULT game. It seems to be a popular trend among the teens to bitch and complain their favorite activity of getting their hair cut/getting a tattoo/dancing/<random pointless filler sh*t here> got taken out of the game.

 

Guess what, you can do that in real life! It's not illegal! So go outside and do it!

So all of that stuff is pointless filler but changing clothes, bowling and dating are essential to GTA? Your counter argument sucks ass.

You know, I've been reading your replies in a number of threads. I really have to say your one of the most arrogant and self rightious assholes ive ever seen. Every arguement you make is based on PO and not fact. You are trying to compare menial and meaningless points with activities which CAN have an actual impact on gameplay. Hair Cut had no impact on gameplay apart from character looks, Same with Tattoos and Dancing. In IV however if you use them correctly they can have useful traits. For example dating in this game allows for you to get a health boost, Lose wanted level ect. In SA you got nothing. +1 to me.

 

Point 2. The minigames (Apart from the retarded arcade game) also have an affect on gameplay (Look at point one). Changing closes also has an effect as different girls will like different clothing. +2 to me.

 

Therefore the score stands at -30 to you and +3 to me on sense.

 

GG

 

Huh? What car modification variable? There is no car modification.

 

At least you admit you don't know what you are talking about instead of making silly matter-fact-statements like '(GTA VI)... is longer than San Andreas'.

 

f*cktard, Awesome attempt at trolling but once again you fail.

 

He was using a hypothetical situation. IF there was car modification Euphoria would have to take those characteristics into account. He was using it as a thesis as to why there is no car modification. If you failed to notice that your a jackass. However I personally think you noticed it but refused to acknowledge it.

[ZaZ9291]

To give, you must take, Rockstar sacrificed some things to add the ultimate experience to other things such as the storyline.

To give you must take? What restaurant did that fortune cookie come from?

 

The story was mediocre. GTA SHOULD NOT be about a story anyway.

Actually that is the one main thing Rockstar has to do, otherwise everything else are just extra's. If you think San Andreas is better, go play that, I don't think anyone would really care.

[wayninja]

So all of that stuff is pointless filler but changing clothes, bowling and dating are essential to GTA? Your counter argument sucks ass.

You know, I've been reading your replies in a number of threads. I really have to say your one of the most arrogant and self rightious assholes ive ever seen. Every arguement you make is based on PO and not fact. You are trying to compare menial and meaningless points with activities which CAN have an actual impact on gameplay. Hair Cut had no impact on gameplay apart from character looks, Same with Tattoos and Dancing. In IV however if you use them correctly they can have useful traits. For example dating in this game allows for you to get a health boost, Lose wanted level ect. In SA you got nothing. +1 to me.

 

Point 2. The minigames (Apart from the retarded arcade game) also have an affect on gameplay (Look at point one). Changing closes also has an effect as different girls will like different clothing. +2 to me.

 

Therefore the score stands at -30 to you and +3 to me on sense.

 

GG

 

Huh? What car modification variable? There is no car modification.

 

At least you admit you don't know what you are talking about instead of making silly matter-fact-statements like '(GTA VI)... is longer than San Andreas'.

 

f*cktard, Awesome attempt at trolling but once again you fail.

 

He was using a hypothetical situation. IF there was car modification Euphoria would have to take those characteristics into account. He was using it as a thesis as to why there is no car modification. If you failed to notice that your a jackass. However I personally think you noticed it but refused to acknowledge it.

Calling someone arrogant and self righteous carries more weight when you are actually correct in your example. Since dating in SA got you custom cars, you are just flat wrong. And your comparisons don't even work... haircut, tattooes and dancing in SA = clothes and bowling in IV.

 

+1 to you? Keeping your own score surely is a sign of humble, dispassionate debate, no?

 

As far as being an expert on Euphoria... what variables would it have to take into account? Different skins that it is already taking into account? A variable is a variable f*cktard. There wouldn't need to be more of them!

[Tornadium]

So all of that stuff is pointless filler but changing clothes, bowling and dating are essential to GTA? Your counter argument sucks ass.

You know, I've been reading your replies in a number of threads. I really have to say your one of the most arrogant and self rightious assholes ive ever seen. Every arguement you make is based on PO and not fact. You are trying to compare menial and meaningless points with activities which CAN have an actual impact on gameplay. Hair Cut had no impact on gameplay apart from character looks, Same with Tattoos and Dancing. In IV however if you use them correctly they can have useful traits. For example dating in this game allows for you to get a health boost, Lose wanted level ect. In SA you got nothing. +1 to me.

 

Point 2. The minigames (Apart from the retarded arcade game) also have an affect on gameplay (Look at point one). Changing closes also has an effect as different girls will like different clothing. +2 to me.

 

Therefore the score stands at -30 to you and +3 to me on sense.

 

GG

Huh? What car modification variable? There is no car modification.

 

At least you admit you don't know what you are talking about instead of making silly matter-fact-statements like '(GTA VI)... is longer than San Andreas'.

 

f*cktard, Awesome attempt at trolling but once again you fail.

 

He was using a hypothetical situation. IF there was car modification Euphoria would have to take those characteristics into account. He was using it as a thesis as to why there is no car modification. If you failed to notice that your a jackass. However I personally think you noticed it but refused to acknowledge it.

Calling someone arrogant and self righteous carries more weight when you are actually correct in your example. Since dating in SA got you custom cars, you are just flat wrong. And your comparisons don't even work... haircut, tattooes and dancing in SA = clothes and bowling in IV.

 

+1 to you? Keeping your own score surely is a sign of humble, dispassionate debate, no?

 

As far as being an expert on Euphoria... what variables would it have to take into account? Different skins that it is already taking into account? A variable is a variable f*cktard. There wouldn't need to be more of them!

You obviously have no idea how an simulation engine works. However ill come to that later. Dating in SA got you a car, It was not custom and you could jack it half the time anyway without having to do said date. There have been occasions where the car that you "get from dating" would be just driven on the streets. Thats a fact, Don't believe me? Go see for yourself. Other people have reported the same. On the most part dating in SA was a chore and boring at best. The comparisons do actually work because Haircuts and tattooes have NO EFFECT what so ever. You could have a f*cking pink afro and run around in boxers and the girl your dating wouldn't notice the difference whereas they do in IV. However it would be nice to be able to have slightly longer hair in IV but it has to have tangible effects.

 

Im keeping score because its fun to. Getting a rise out of you = Score.

 

Okay now onto Engines. Lets put it into very basic terms.

 

Lets say for an alluminium bonnet. An example of variables which need to be calculated in a crash at one particular point would be:

 

-Speed of Car 1 and Speed of Car 2 or Speed of Car 1 and different variables and characteristics of the item that it impacted with.

 

-Density of the metal

 

-Impact Direction

 

-Location of Impact

 

-Mass of Both Cars or Car and Wall (or whatever it impacted with)

 

-Shape of the areas which impacted

 

-Friction between the surfaces

 

-Force of Impact would be calculated using Speed, Direction, Location, Mass and Material Density.

 

From this then a simulation has to be run which can contain a huge amount of code calculating where the metal bends, by how much, in what way ect.

[wayninja]

 

You obviously have no idea how an simulation engine works. However ill come to that later. Dating in SA got you a car, It was not custom and you could jack it half the time anyway without having to do said date. There have been occasions where the car that you "get from dating" would be just driven on the streets. Thats a fact, Don't believe me? Go see for yourself. Other people have reported the same. On the most part dating in SA was a chore and boring at best.  The comparisons do actually work because Haircuts and tattooes have NO EFFECT what so ever. You could have a f*cking pink afro and run around in boxers and the girl your dating wouldn't notice the difference whereas they do in IV. However it would be nice to be able to have slightly longer hair in IV but it has to have tangible effects.

 

Im keeping score because its fun to. Getting a rise out of you = Score.

 

Okay now onto Engines. Lets put it into very basic terms.

 

Lets say for an alluminium bonnet. An example of variables which need to be calculated in a crash at one particular point would be:

 

-Speed of Car 1 and Speed of Car 2 or Speed of Car 1 and different variables and characteristics of the item that it impacted with.

 

-Density of the metal

 

-Impact Direction

 

-Location of Impact

 

-Mass of Both Cars or Car and Wall (or whatever it impacted with)

 

-Shape of the areas which impacted

 

-Friction between the surfaces

 

-Force of Impact would be calculated using Speed, Direction, Location, Mass and Material Density.

 

From this then a simulation has to be run which can contain a huge amount of code calculating where the metal bends, by how much, in what way ect.

I'm not going to waste my time with you.

 

Dating is pointless filler along with lots of other stuff in IV. The argument that R* only took out useless fill stuff is silly.

 

As for you long winded and uncessessary speculation. All of this stuff should already be in the engine. It should just be a matter of different skins and meshes and different values for the properties of the materials.

 

It's all the same with you fanboys. Either R* took it out:

 

1. For realism

2. Because it was useless

3. It's technically impossible to have that in IV.

Edited May 18, 2008 by wayninja

[Signor Vercetti]

Im a bit tired of it always have to be USA or England it sets foot in.. Try some new countries for a change

Umm, it's only ever been set in England once and that was in the top-down days (GTA London).

 

As for the argument about the police not being able to shoot in London, well, just bend the rules a bit. They did shoot in GTA London.

 

On this topic, hasn't anyone released some sort of London mod for GTA? I've heard of other mods that introduce brand new cities, so why not London?

I've just found this:

 

http://gtagb.com/

 

Looks interesting, as long as it isn't dead!

[Tornadium]

Im not going to waste my time with you.

 

Dating is pointless filler along with lots of other stuff in IV. The argument that R* only took out useless fill stuff is silly.

 

As for you long winded and uncessessary speculation. All of this stuff should already be in the engine. It should just be a matter of different skins and meshes and different values for the properties of the materials.

 

It's all the same with you fanboys. Either R* took it out:

 

1. For realism

2. Because it was useless

3. It's technically impossible to have that in IV.

Awesome. You retreat without even trying to defend yourself. I claim internets victory. Even in the face of fact you still insist your right. Its sad really.