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B4rto

Religion

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Struff Bunstridge

I think the argument would be that the baby has its whole life to "see the light" and convert, thus saving its immortal soul. If it chooses not to, it suffers the repercussions, I guess.

 

Yeah but then the baby could die at 1 year old, having never been baptised and therefore have

no choice but to be condemned.

 

The fact is, it was a way of scaring people into having their young initiated into the faith before

even having the oppurtunity to decide.

Prezactly. Bastards, the lot of them.

 

@Catholic Church owning the world: I laughed recently to see that the Church had expanded and modernised its list of mortal sins, and one of the new inclusions was "possessing obscene wealth". f*cking hypocrites. Just as well they didn't include "collaborating with Nazis" and "systematic child abuse", or they'd be triply f*cked.

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Tony Mozzarelli 80

I think the argument would be that the baby has its whole life to "see the light" and convert, thus saving its immortal soul. If it chooses not to, it suffers the repercussions, I guess.

 

Yeah but then the baby could die at 1 year old, having never been baptised and therefore have

no choice but to be condemned.

 

The fact is, it was a way of scaring people into having their young initiated into the faith before

even having the oppurtunity to decide.

Prezactly. Bastards, the lot of them.

 

@Catholic Church owning the world: I laughed recently to see that the Church had expanded and modernised its list of mortal sins, and one of the new inclusions was "possessing obscene wealth". f*cking hypocrites. Just as well they didn't include "collaborating with Nazis" and "systematic child abuse", or they'd be triply f*cked.

Yeah one of my favourite Jesus quotes

 

"It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter

the kingdom of heavon"

 

I'm just waiting till someone receives a papal bull commissioning the building of a gigantic

needle haha

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NZskep

the pope is (apparently) gods chosen spokesperson on earth.

 

The pope believes in miracles and that whatever happens must be gods will.

Lets face it, if god was going to save anyone from being shot with a miracle the pope would be no 1 choice

 

 

So why does he travel round in a bullet proof car?

 

If it's gods will that he will get shot, then he is trying to cheat god, which he believes is impossible, so why even try?

If it's gods will that he won't get shot, then it can never happen, so why bother with the car?

 

either that or secretly he doesn't really believe.

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Mafia Drive Gunner

Ok. Would you rather be a powerful person with a bullet hole in you? Or a healthy powerful person?

 

If you're going to ask questions like this, then lets go:

Why does anyone die?

Why do sinners go to Hell if all sins are forgiven and God loves everybody?

Why does anyone ever kill anyone else?

 

 

Personally, I don't see what is so special about the Pope. He hasn't performed miracles or anything. Literally, he's just the Bishop of the Roman Diocese. He's just an old bloke in a white gown who makes big imaginary crosses in the air.

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Vercetti21
Why do sinners go to Hell if all sins are forgiven and God loves everybody?

No. Why does everyone think that the bible says "all sins are forgiven"? The only forgiven sins are confessed sins. Those who confess will receive forgiveness, and those who have been forgiven will enter Heaven. God doesn't just say "screw it, everyone is forgiven!" and then pick and choose who goes to Hell or not. At least, that's what Christianity preaches.

 

Forgive me if you were being sarcastic when you asked that, but I see that question being tossed around this thread a lot and it generally tends to annoy me.

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Seachmall
@Catholic Church owning the world: I laughed recently to see that the Church had expanded and modernised its list of mortal sins, and one of the new inclusions was "possessing obscene wealth". f*cking hypocrites. Just as well they didn't include "collaborating with Nazis" and "systematic child abuse", or they'd be triply f*cked.

Thats another thing with Christianity (or religion as a whole but I don't have experience with other religions so lets leave it at Christianity), they expand the list of mortal sins. If you were obscenely wealthy before that was added is it still a sin? Will you be rejected from heaven for it? Who's to-say that using the internet won't be added to that list in 200 years? Does it make it a sin now or will it only be a sin after its announced even though God surely would know whether or not its a sin now?

 

How are these desicions made? Do a bunch of bishops sit around a table and debate it? If so how can they really claim its the word of God if they debated it? Did the Pope just come up with it and add it to the list? How can he justify it or does he just claim its Gods will? Why are these sins just being announced now and not in the past when the rich royally f*cked the poor over (even more so then now)?

 

I'm not sure if these questions can actually be answered by anyone other then the pope himself but I'd like to hear some thoughts on them. I've made some assumptions here too so correct me if I'm way off.

 

The church was set up with bribes, murder, blackmail and corruption in general so how can we really trust it is a true representation of God regardless of how decent the recent popes have been? I get people believing in God without any proof, its what they grew up with and faith rules all but how can they trust in the church? An organisation set up by men and which has the most corrupt and lethal history of any organisation around today. I realise that recent scandels can't be attributed to the church but there was a time when the popes waged war. Were they acting out Gods will then? Probably not, they probably never heard a word from God so how can we trust current popes do if its founding fathers didn't? Faith doesn't apply hear because you trusting the word of a human, not the belief in God.

 

Once again I'm just thinking out loud, so don't hate on me too much if I screwed up somewhere smile.gif

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Machida

To blame religion for all the problems in the world is a stretch in my view. If religion is wrong or incorrect as someone arguing this point would believe, then they would have to concede that religion is man made. Meaning from the minds of men. That would mean that wars fought in the name of religion were actually wars fought in the name of an idea. An idea implanted in the minds of men by their own human nature (as it could come from nowhere else).

 

I agree that the large majority of the worlds problems are due to religion. However I blame human nature, not religion itself. We're always going to have some sort of belief system present in the world because as human beings we have a need to rationalise and understand things. Take away religion and It would only be replaced with something else.

 

We even categorise people who don't believe in religion! We call them athiests, just so we can rationalise them.

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Seachmall

 

If religion is wrong or incorrect as someone arguing this point would believe, then they would have to concede that religion is man made. Meaning from the minds of men.

Religion is man made. Its a concept which was created by man long before jesus or any propeht.

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Carbine23

I think some things in the Christian Religion are bulllsh*t. I'm not Christian but Jewish (yes i do believe in god).

 

It's bullsh*t that you don't go to heaven if you don't believe in Jesus Christ. What about pacific islander natives? They don't know anything about Jesus, so i guess there going to hell!

 

Most of these rules were created by the Catholic Church and not actually said by Jesus himself. Jesus would be ashamed of what Christianity has done to the world. It was the most violent religion of all time, mainly in the middle ages/renaissance.

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Seachmall

 

It's bullsh*t that you don't go to heaven if you don't believe in Jesus Christ. What about pacific islander natives?

Do you need to be aware of something before deciding if it exists or not? If these pacific islanders have no knowledge of Jesus existance and supposed power can they even not believe in him? I think the Church is being misrepresented in this (common) scenario, I think it has more do with concienciously rejecting Jesus as your saviour as oppose to not being educated about him being the (supposed) saviour.

 

Another thing about Catholiscm (I realise this is quickly turning into a bashing thread),

 

for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me
Thats part of the 4th commandment (Exodus 20:4) however I don't remember learning this bit in school confused.gif

 

^^I realise that has more to do with religion in schools but religion in schools is total BS anyway.

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ApplePieMolester81

I dont really believe in religion, There's to many politics in it. Like why and how is it that theirs multiple people who believe in the same God but yet they all have to be separate from 1 another as Christians/Catholics/Baptists/Methodists ect ect? I am recently getting into Wicca, it seems to be rather peaceful and not so conforming and filled with politics.

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Hart

This just proves that most "near death experiences" involving God could have been hallucinations. Maybe not on LSD, but seeing as you "can get closer to God" as this young kid says.

 

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K^2

I hope, somebody called B.S. on this one. I mean, a lot of it is quite possible, but there are a lot of major errors that should not have gotten past any sort of most rudimentary fact checking.

 

1) Sirius is always in alignment with Orion's Belt, not only on 24th of December. That and its brightness make Sirius easy to spot in the night sky.

2) Sun is nowhere near Orion on the 25th of December, nor any time in the Winter. Orion is clearly visible during winter nights.

3) There is no apparent connection between constellation of Virgo and position of the Sun in December.

4) Southern Cross is located very far South and is not going to ever be visible from most areas where these legends exist. It is never visible from Jerusalem. It might be visible from Egypt, but only during the Summer Solstice.

5) Sun doesn't just stop for 3 days at the point of Winter Solstice. It keeps moving continuously North, turns around, and moves South. 3 day figure, in this case, is completely arbitrary.

 

However, a few things do seem reasonable. For example, the Birth of the key figure is almost certainly correlated to the Winter Solstice. Though, Christian Church most likely chose to celebrate Christmas to coincide with pagan holidays of the same time, such as Yule and Saturnalia, in attempt to replace these seamlessly. It has nothing to do with the date when Christ is believed to be born. Furthermore, the number of disciples, 12, is likely to be correlated to the number of Zodiac constellations. However, the number 12 is most likely to be believed to posses some mystical properties prior to this, causing the equatorial to be divided into 12 Zodiac constellations in the first place. Which of the two then caused the 12 disciples is hard to tell.

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Hart

I find t funny that a film can put everything in perspective:

 

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.

I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.

All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

Time to die. "

 

Proves how insignificant we are, and in turn shows how God (If there is one) doesnt care.

 

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Tony Mozzarelli 80

Man i loved Bladerunner,

 

But on topic, yes it is well known that many aspects of christianity were adapted to conform with various pagan religions that were prevalent at the time. Notable occasions such as the council of Nicaea, were the likes of Constantine and his contemporaries sought a single religion to unify their subjects. Hence why he was baptized christian but always really remained a believer of the traditional Roman gods

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Seachmall

 

This just proves that most "near death experiences" involving God could have been hallucinations. Maybe not on LSD, but seeing as you "can get closer to God" as this young kid says.

There are loads of logical reasons for these hallucinations, the most common natural ones (and most likely imo) being lucid dreaming/OBEs and hypnagogic sleep paralysis. There are a few videos on YouTube of people talking about their experiences with sleep paralysis and there are some real scary stuff. There are also some religious type of experiences people have had. I've never had such an experience but from what I've read its seems very likely to be mistaken for religious experiences and even alien abdutions/visitations.

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jedimario
but yet they all have to be separate from 1 another as Christians/Catholics/Baptists/Methodists ect ect?

The Bible is a big book; there are millions and millions of Christians. It's simply impossible for everyone to interpret it the same way. And they fight so much because, well, Christians are humans too, we all make mistakes.

 

And some of them are just pricks but that's another subject.

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Machida

I would argue that no religion was "right", and my argument for this would be religion itself. Every religion causes friction and disagreement with other religions, yet we're told religion stems from the word of God. In every religion God is considered a perfect being, therefore the word of God would have to be perfect (flawless) for God himself to remain perfect.

However inconsistances and differences between religions show that every religion is flawed in that it can be disputed by another religion. Sometimes to the extent that it leads to war. If a religion was "right" then this couldn't happen, it would have to be imune to the threat of other religions.

 

Jedimaro also pointed out another flaw in religion in the post above. If a religion was able to be misinterpreted by it's followers then the word of God would have to be considered weak, or less satisfactory. However if God was perfect and his words were true there could be no denying their meaning, they would have to be as flawless as God himself.

 

Edited by Machida

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Jesta

Society needs religion for a moral compass and to base it's laws around. sarcasm.gif Especially parts of the bible like these:

 

Leviticus 19:19 Don't plant a field with two kinds of seeds, and don't wear any clothing made of two different kinds of material.

 

Leviticus 19:27 You aren't allowed to cut your hair or shave your face.

 

Leviticus 19:28 You aren't allowed to get a tattoo.

 

Leviticus 20:10-13 If a man has sex with another man's wife, his father's wife, his daughter-in-law, or another man..they must be put to death.

 

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Seachmall

 

Society needs religion for a moral compass and to base it's laws around. sarcasm.gif  Especially parts of the bible like these:

 

Leviticus 19:19 Don't plant a field with two kinds of seeds, and don't wear any clothing made of two different kinds of material.

 

Leviticus 19:27 You aren't allowed to cut your hair or shave your face.

 

Leviticus 19:28 You aren't allowed to get a tattoo.

 

Leviticus 20:10-13 If a man has sex with another man's wife, his father's wife, his daughter-in-law, or another man..they must be put to death.

The bible isn't our moral compass although some confuse it to be so. We choose what we teach kids from the bible and we ignore what we don't want them to hear (like the ones you posted), the fact we have the ability to choose what to teach and what not to teach shows the bible is only a means of teaching morals, but its not the source. I think the bible is a good way to teach these morals however I don't like what it comes with, that being religion.

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Luck of the Irish

A taxi driver once told me this:

 

God allows all the pain and suffering in this world because he gave people free will, it is our decision whether or not to help people in need.

 

 

Here's another confusing thing about God:

 

God can do any thing right?

So can God make a rock he can't lift?

 

If he can make it, he can't lift it.

If he can't, well then he simply can't do everything.

 

 

Personally I believe religion is total bull.

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Seachmall
God allows all the pain and suffering in this world because he gave people free will, it is our decision whether or not to help people in need.

So god makes people suffer to test those who don't suffer? I think god has been watching too many Saw movies.

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DeuCe

 

 

 

- God created everything.

Why did God create a hell? If everybody is forgiven in the end, was there any need for it?

 

- Evil is all the devils doing.

Why did God create such an evil being to run riot on his earth? Does God purposly want to hurt his people?

 

 

 

God created a hell out of love, he didn't want his righteous children to live in a place with evil for eternity.

 

Not many people know this, but according to Christian mythology, Lucifer was god's first son and favorite angel, and Lucifer didn't think God was a good god or father, he spent too much time with his creation and forgot all about Lucifer. So Lucifer planned a rebellion to overthrow God and become god himself. They had a war about the time between when Adam and Eve were made and when the serpent tempted them. Obviously Lucifer lost and god threw him down into hell, into the 9th level of hell for the betrayers, for he betrayed God. Lucifer was never a ruler of hell but the most purest evil to ever exist.

 

Lucifer cant touch god touch to get his revenge so he is forced to do the next best thing and force evil upon his creation.

 

"It is better to rule in hell, than to serve in heaven"

Edited by DeuCe

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Seachmall
God created a hell out of love, he didn't want his righteous children to live in a place with evil for eternity.

 

Not many people know this, but according to Christian mythology, Lucifer was god's first son and favorite angel, and Lucifer didn't think God was a good god or father, he spent too much time with his creation and forgot all about Lucifer. So Lucifer planned a rebellion to overthrow God and become god himself. They had a war about the time between when Adam and Eve were made and when the serpent tempted them. Obviously Lucifer lost and god threw him down into hell, into the 9th level of hell for the betrayers, for he betrayed God. Lucifer was never a ruler of hell but the most purest evil to ever exist.

 

Lucifer cant touch god touch to get his revenge so he is forced to do the next best thing and force evil upon his creation.

 

"It is better to rule in hell, than to serve in heaven"

Talking to a teacher in my school he said that hell is not what everone beliefs (nor what the church used to teach) but is just life without god. Heaven is eternity in the presence of god and hell is the opposite. It seems a very watered down version of what most of us were taught but apparently thats the current belief of the church and that part of the bible isn't meant to be taken litteraly, well according to a religion teacher in my school.

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DeuCe

Theres many intepretation about hell.

If you've ever seen the movie "What Dreams May Come" they think that hell is what you create it as.

 

So they're basically saying that everyone goes to heaven and you live in your imagination.

So if you died and you were a righteous person and didn't have any guilt or sorrow about something that happened in your life you will live in the paradise of your wildest dreams.

But if your in heaven and you always grieve over the ones you lost, or you feel guilty about something you've done, you always think negatively and thus create your heaven unpleasant.

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