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XBOX 360 or PS3 Emulator


SLAYERMAGGOT

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Is it possible to play GTA IV on a XBOX 360 or Ps3 Emulator on PC.

Thats my dream because to buy a console is so expensive an i spend a lot of money for my PC

I know there are XBOX Emulators or PS2 but i see torrents with a XBOX 360 Emulator,

I don't donwload torrent files

Here at the forum are a lot of scripter how can make a emulator i think! biggrin.gif

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Statutory Ray

Xbox 360 and PS3 emulator are a long time off. PS2 emulators are slowly becoming better, and Xbox emulators haven't even gotten off the ground really.

 

You won't be able to emulate 360 or PS3 games for a long time.

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ILovePolarBears
Invest in a console. GTA IV via an emulator on the PC isn't going to happen any time soon, if at all.
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I've tried PXtreme, and it was crap. Couldn't get anything to work right. Like everyone else is saying, no chance, at least not for a long while.

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That or wait till the game is released on PC. That would be my best suggestion.

 

The best console emulators are emulators for consoles from a decade or more ago (consoles that went out of sale a decade ago).

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Statutory Ray
I've tried PXtreme, and it was crap. Couldn't get anything to work right. Like everyone else is saying, no chance, at least not for a long while.

An emulator by that name doesn't even exist. Sure it wasn't just a virus? ph34r.gif

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Hmm... You should be able to write a 360 emu that runs on a top-of-the-line quad-core PC.

 

You'd have to use virtualization. Emulator would run on level 0, and your OS would run on one of the cores on level 1. The instructions would be translated, rather than interpreted, and translations would be cached. That way, the inner-loops would all be pre-translated. The actual emulation would be running on the remaining 3 cores, simulating the 3 cores of 360. This will let a modern PC emulate 360's CPU in real time. Next step would be to intercept DirectX instructions and make them work with whatever graphics and audio hardware you have. This task would be similar to what Caustic was doing with XBox emulation. Of course, his emu is designed to use Windows to do pretty much everything. That lets it run without a pirated BIOS. That won't fly with a 360. You'd have to pirate firmware and the 360 OS.

 

To summarize, 360 emulator would be the most advanced emulator to date, requiring a very serious development team. The end product would run only on top machines and require illegal downloads to operate. Id est, it can generate absolutely no profit to the development team. If you can find a bunch of expert programmers who would be willing to go to all the trouble for free and risk being sued into poor house by MS, you'd be well on your way to having such an emulator made.

 

Situation with PS3 is even worse. I can't think of a way to emulate it on modern PC in real time. Not only do the top-of-the-line PCs can barely match PS3's computational capabilities, but the architecture is also so much further from PC that I doubt there is a good way to emulate it. Your PPC part would run well enough, but the SPUs will kill you.

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Does anybody know how similar are Windows and 360's versions of DirectX 10?

 

It just occured to me that if 360 games do all of their IO via DX10, and all of the 360's DX10 calls are supported, than 360 emulator might actually be a manageable project. Basically, any DX10 call in 360 code would be replaced with an interrupt. The service code for that interrupt would store the relevant data in the memory shared between Vista and the Emulator. And a client program on Vista would translate these calls to Windows DX10 substituting the parameters of the target window.

 

Basically, that only leaves whatever IO calls the OS might be making. Hopefully, most of these also go through DX. Remaining calls would have to be emulated very carefully.

 

Of course, that emulator would have to boot off a CD on a PC with Vista, Quad-core CPU, and at least 2GB of RAM. But hey, that's something. And if that lets you run the 360 games at 1080p without lag or fear of ROD, I think there will be a lot of people interested in it.

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just another thug

I know that people have the whole architecture of the XBox360 as well a copy of the bios it runs. I've read about it before, so if you're really really that interested you could probably find it.

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Rocketkiller
Does anybody know how similar are Windows and 360's versions of DirectX 10?

 

It just occured to me that if 360 games do all of their IO via DX10, and all of the 360's DX10 calls are supported, than 360 emulator might actually be a manageable project. Basically, any DX10 call in 360 code would be replaced with an interrupt. The service code for that interrupt would store the relevant data in the memory shared between Vista and the Emulator. And a client program on Vista would translate these calls to Windows DX10 substituting the parameters of the target window.

 

Basically, that only leaves whatever IO calls the OS might be making. Hopefully, most of these also go through DX. Remaining calls would have to be emulated very carefully.

 

Of course, that emulator would have to boot off a CD on a PC with Vista, Quad-core CPU, and at least 2GB of RAM. But hey, that's something. And if that lets you run the 360 games at 1080p without lag or fear of ROD, I think there will be a lot of people interested in it.

What kind of architecture does the X360 CPU use? X86? Remember that emulation is needed if the architecture is different, so if it's not running X86 or X64 then there's no way you'll be able to run it on a PC for a long, long time.

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What kind of architecture does the X360 CPU use? X86? Remember that emulation is needed if the architecture is different, so if it's not running X86 or X64 then there's no way you'll be able to run it on a PC for a long, long time.

360 runs on a PPC CPU. But there are ways to work around it. You can boost performance at expense of memory. Especially, when you have virtualization at hand.

 

The instructions would be translated, rather than interpreted, and translations would be cached. That way, the inner-loops would all be pre-translated.

This would let you run an emulation of a CPU without needing a 10x overhead in computing power.

 

The algorithm would be pretty straight forward. The CPU will be running code translated from PPC to x86, as described slightly further in this text. Jumps and branches will be replaced by interrupts calling the emulator code. Upon a branch, emulator would check where the jump leads. If the code is already translated, simply branch there. That can be done easily in interrupt handler by changing the return address on the stack. If code is not translated, grab the PPC code up to the next branch or jump, disassemble it, translate it to x86 assembly, and perform optimized assembly. This will not produce code that is as well optimized as it would be if compiled from C/C++ source, but it would be fairly close, and would perform the same algorithm overall. That code is then placed in memory, and all subsequent calls to that section of code go directly there.

 

This way, you don't run into the problem that most emulators do, where the interpreter keeps effectively translating the same code within the loop over and over. There will be occasional lags, when the emulator hits new sections of code. However, they should generally occur only during the first few minutes of play time. After that, PC should be capable of keeping up with the emulation.

 

Natural question is why this hasn't been used for emulation before. The answer is that this algorithm relies on virtualization. There are effectively two separate CPUs. One runs translated code, and ends up behaving as a PPC chip, while the other runs the PC operating system and the emulator itself with the translator code, etc. And as I mentioned before, this will need a quad-core, because 360 is triple-core already. It would be an enormous task to get all 3 cores emulated on one x86-64 core. So 3 cores are used to run translated code, and one remaining core takes care of the PC OS. Again, a restriction here is that OS will have to be Vista to provide DX10 functionality.

 

So the only thing left is making sure that 360 OS itself runs alright on this emulation. This requires emulating the hardware environment at very least through the init process. Hopefully, from there on, it is all DX10, and we'll make Vista take care of that. The great benefit of the OS code is that it can be pre-translated and patched. Once you got it running, it runs for all the games. And if a particular section of the code requires something from environment that would be hard to emulate, that section can be removed. Example of that would be the hardware checks OS might run. Simply replace the check with an OK reply, and it should run smoothly.

 

The patches for the 360 OS/firmware can be distributed without any MS code, and pre-translation can be done by emulator upon "install" of the OS. That would make it possible to distribute the emulator without violating copyrights. The OS would have to be added as a separate file, and the games would run from disk images. So while the emulator would be legal, the situation will end up being the same as with all the other emulators, where BIOS images and games are usually downloaded illegally. So such a project would still probably be under direct fire from MicroSoft if it ever takes off.

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I've tried PXtreme, and it was crap. Couldn't get anything to work right. Like everyone else is saying, no chance, at least not for a long while.

An emulator by that name doesn't even exist. Sure it wasn't just a virus? ph34r.gif

Lol, typo tounge.gif

I meant PSXtreme.

 

I also tried a GameCube emulator, couldn't get it to work at all. The newest console emulator that's pretty much stable is N64 (Conker's Bad Fur Day FTW!). Seems like everyone using disc's are just too hard to emulate.

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Hmm... You should be able to write a 360 emu that runs on a top-of-the-line quad-core PC.

 

You'd have to use virtualization. Emulator would run on level 0, and your OS would run on one of the cores on level 1. The instructions would be translated, rather than interpreted, and translations would be cached. That way, the inner-loops would all be pre-translated. The actual emulation would be running on the remaining 3 cores, simulating the 3 cores of 360. This will let a modern PC emulate 360's CPU in real time. Next step would be to intercept DirectX instructions and make them work with whatever graphics and audio hardware you have. This task would be similar to what Caustic was doing with XBox emulation. Of course, his emu is designed to use Windows to do pretty much everything. That lets it run without a pirated BIOS. That won't fly with a 360. You'd have to pirate firmware and the 360 OS.

 

To summarize, 360 emulator would be the most advanced emulator to date, requiring a very serious development team. The end product would run only on top machines and require illegal downloads to operate. Id est, it can generate absolutely no profit to the development team. If you can find a bunch of expert programmers who would be willing to go to all the trouble for free and risk being sued into poor house by MS, you'd be well on your way to having such an emulator made.

 

Situation with PS3 is even worse. I can't think of a way to emulate it on modern PC in real time. Not only do the top-of-the-line PCs can barely match PS3's computational capabilities, but the architecture is also so much further from PC that I doubt there is a good way to emulate it. Your PPC part would run well enough, but the SPUs will kill you.

The Xenon CPU makes use of multithreading. It runs six threads.

 

At least the cores are identical.. The Cell is more like a bastardized graphics processor with an integrated CPU. If you took 8 x86-capable clusters of Nvidia stream processors and coupled them with a CPU on-die you'd have something similar.. It's just so different from a regular CPU. It's not exactly revolutionary, though. Take a look at the [email protected] numbers for the ATI beta GPU client if you want to see what a 'grown up' Cell would be like.

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The Xenon CPU makes use of multithreading. It runs six threads.

There are still only 3 physical cores. All this means is that in the worst case scenario, there will need to be a thread switching interrupt. It doesn't change the main operating principle.

 

At least the cores are identical.. The Cell is more like a bastardized graphics processor with an integrated CPU. If you took 8 x86-capable clusters of Nvidia stream processors and coupled them with a CPU on-die you'd have something similar.. It's just so different from a regular CPU. It's not exactly revolutionary, though. Take a look at the [email protected] numbers for the ATI beta GPU client if you want to see what a 'grown up' Cell would be like.

Not really. It just brings some of the things that are usually external on board. Every x86 PC going back at least as far as x386 has a DMA controller on the motherboard. Coding for SPUs on Cell really isn't all that different from programming DMA controllers to stream data to other hardware. And the FPU on any x86 starting with x486 runs as a co-processor. In fact, on x386 it was a separate chip. The only difference is that on x86 it doesn't have its own memory space like SPUs do.

 

If you look at CBE by itself, sure it's different. But nobody ever looks at a chip by itself. By itself it is useless. It is only of interest in relation to its environment, and Cell's environment is virtually identical to that of any PPC based machine and very similar to that of x86.

 

The only people who whine about CBE being so different are the people who have never coded with anything other than DirectX. For anyone who ever worked with hardware, working with Cell is very natural.

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Statutory Ray
I've tried PXtreme, and it was crap. Couldn't get anything to work right. Like everyone else is saying, no chance, at least not for a long while.

An emulator by that name doesn't even exist. Sure it wasn't just a virus? ph34r.gif

Lol, typo tounge.gif

I meant PSXtreme.

 

I also tried a GameCube emulator, couldn't get it to work at all. The newest console emulator that's pretty much stable is N64 (Conker's Bad Fur Day FTW!). Seems like everyone using disc's are just too hard to emulate.

PSXtreme doesn't exist either. ph34r.gif

 

You can emulate the Playstation perfectly (hell, you can even play the games on your PSP), you just have to use an emulator that actually exists. Working Dreamcast and Gamecube emulators also exist, and a certain PS2 emulator has gotten so far that most commercial games will run, though not quite perfectly.

 

I was actually playing a PSX game as I wrote this...

 

user posted image

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