Help Please - CRT HDTV Owners in here!

[BalekFekete]

I'm having a problem that I would like to see whether it is just me and my set, or a problem with the game. I have an older (4 years old) CRT rear projection HDTV (Mitsubishi 65813) that is capable of 480i, 480p, and 1080i. In all my past games, I play at 1080i without any issues. However, with GTA IV, I'm getting cropping at the top and bottom of the screen. However, at 480p resolution, everything is fine.

 

Can anyone out there with a similiar set confirm this?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

B.

[mitchbisson3]

yes, I am having the same problem. It seems to be alright w/ 480p, but then it isn't in widescreen...so I don't know what to do. I've never had any problems w/ any other games except this one.

Edited April 30, 2008 by mitchbisson3

[Gox]

Hi guys, I'm having the same issues with my Toshiba HD CRT. 480p is the only setting that doesn't give me any trouble. With 720p the on-screen text is blurry and the left and right of the screen get cropped a little bit. With 1080i the text is more readable than 720p, but I get more left and right side screen cropping. i.e. I can only see the first 2 digits of my cash.

 

I've only had my 360 for about a week so maybe I'm missing a setting but I thought I'd let you know that you're not alone. I don't have a fix, but would like to find one.

[Pagelzilla]

Same problem for me! It's a few years old Sony CRT HDTV, output is 1080p. It crops out a small part of the radar/health as well as about half of the weapons/money. It's really frustrating, especially when there is an objective to my left that I can't see

[andi9]

Hi all, I am having the same cropping issues. I have a toshiba 65H80 CRT Rear projection TV (4-5years old) which only supports 1080i(HD) &SD(480p). In 1080i - I cannot see the left top & right bottom because of the cropping. Really hard to do anything without seeing mission/instructions or the $ or part of the cellphone. Quite sad to see such a good game not working on 4-5year old TVs in HD in 1080i. Hopefully there is a secret code to shrink the screen-size so we all can see stuff in HD. Andi

[Gox]

Andi,

 

I have a newer version of that TV I believe, can't be bothered to double check the model number. I haven't been able to find a work around yet so I'm using 480p. I can't adjust the "pic size" (widescreen modes) when the Xbox is on so I guess somehow it's locking that functionality. 'Tis a shame, you're right.

[BalekFekete]

Just sent an email to R* technical support. Will update the thread should I get an answer.

 

/me crosses fingers.

[flizzard]

5-year-old Mitsubishi CRT here, same problem with cropping. Anxiously awaiting info...

[andi9]

Note: I have been researching the HDTV/SDTV issue to see if there is a workaround on the Toshiba, Sony TV sites/tech manuals or PS3 tech manuals- unfortunately there isn't one I can find. I believe the problem is this - Most CRT HDTVs (Even the pricey one's) - the Colorstream/Composite Video(HD) stream cannot be resized for ZOOM, WIDESREEN1,2,3 etc because the Composite streams(1080i, 480p) just bypasses the tv tuner, tv circuits. So there is no solution/workaround I could find from the TV mfgs. Some DVD players can do this - but unfortunately PS3 does not give that option(Resize pic in 1080i).

 

Writing this just to save others from spending countless hours reading TV tech manuals & service guides to see if there is a secret key to shrink the screen in HD(1080i). Looks like its upto R* to fix. Temporarily, maybe they should announce that GTA4 only supports 480p,720p,1080p & 1080i(* For Newer LCD/Plasmas only & if you get lucky) - that way some of the guys like me could just wait for a patch instead of shelling out 64$ for a "soon to be fixed" HD game.

 

BTW- If anyone is reading this and has a CRT HDTV and the game is working find with 1080i- can you please reply here? That way we know whether this is a unique corner case bug we are seeing.

[flizzard]

Can we just change the output of the Xbox to 480p? Or does that make things suck? Sorry if it's a stupid question - only played a couple of hours last night, didn't get to mess with any settings.

[mitchb2]

I also have a 65 series Mits with the same cropping issues.

[andi9]

flizzard, 480p is reported to work ok. I have not tried yet. But please realize that you are loosing 1/2 of the lines/resolution

>

480p - 480p does not qualify as high-definition television (HDTV); it is considered Enhanced-definition television (EDTV). The 480 denotes a vertical resolution of 480 vertical scanning lines, usually with a horizontal resolution of 640 pixels and 4:3 aspect ratio or a horizontal resolution of 854 pixels and 16:9 aspect ratio.

 

1080i/p- The number 1080 stands for 1080 lines of vertical resolution, while the letter i stands for interlaced or non-progressive scan. 1080i is a high-definition television (HDTV) video mode.

>

But bottom line for me is that if I pay ~$60 for a PS3(HD) game - I need to get HD to work. If I only needed SD - I could have bought a old PS2 game for $30. Lets see what R* cust support says. If R* response is that this game will never support 1080i, Most likely I will sell it off. Others may be fine with EDTV/SD resolution for 60$.

 

If anyone knows of a CRT HDTV working fine with GTA4 @1080i - please reply here.. Thx, Andi

[Recentiy03]

I got off the phone with a Rockstar Technician and he suggested that I use my TV remote and downsize the screen so it fits. Of course, I have no TV remote and my cable company remote doesn't have any zoom functions.

 

His second suggestion was to try the game in 1080p. And if that doesn't work, he said to try 720p.

 

I assume there is going to be a fix, the Tech indicated there were multiple additional releases planned, but those sounded more like addons than fixes. I can't imagine such a widespread issue would linger very long without a fix, but at the same time I can't believe it was released with such a massive bug to begin with.

[andi9]

Recentiy03 - See my message earlier. I don't believe You can resize HD signals (Composite in) on most TVs. (At least the ones I have seen) - the Resize button only works for SD signals (Tuner). I am glad the tech did not tell you to tilt the tv left of right to get a better angular view for the cropped areas - Andi

[Recentiy03]

Hmm, so resizing isn't an option it sounds like even if I did have my TV remote.

 

So, is there anything we can do that works?

 

Has anyone tried 1080p on a 360 or even 720p? I want good graphics, but I think seeing the whole screen is more important.

[compta]

I'm running a Sony Wega 34KD-XS955 CRT @ 1080i with no cropping issues, looks perfect. Set was purchased right before 360 launch and had overscan issues with games like Perfect Dark Zero; these were corrected in the service menu. All CRT members having cropping issues, check other games and look for other HUD items being too close to the edge of the screen or slightly cropped, if so, change your overscan settings in your TV's service menu; this menu is not public and needs to be found online by searching your specific make/model.

 

Easiest way to check for overscan for Xbox 360 is in the dashboard, the inactive "blades" on the sides should be fully visible; not extremely close to the edge or chopped off.

 

PS. Changing your overscan settings can potentially damage your television if set to an 'extreme' value. Changing overscan manipulates the electron beam shot at the phosphor screen and can get out of phase if changed dramatically. If you are to change these settings, I would do so at the smallest increments possible until you get the picture you desire.

Edited April 30, 2008 by compta

[EL BENSON]

This really pisses me off now, I have had no problem with any other game in this format, why is it that it is not right in this one>

[andi9]

Agree with El Benson. I have 3 other games which run fine in 1080i. No Cropping at all.

Compta, thx for the information. Interesting thing is your CRT 34KD-XS955 CRT supports 720p & 1080i. (See below) The GAME per other threads in the forums is Native 720p which is upscaled by either the PS3 or the TV to 1080i/p. LAre you sure the game is running in 1080i or is it dropping to 720p? If it is indeed working at 1080i - maybe your CRT understands the upscaling correctly because it knows 720p.

 

Another interesting note is that others are having similar cropping issues with 1080p as well.

 

I am not sure how R* can put 1080i and 1080p as SUPPORTED on the box when 1080i or 1080p does not work for most.

 

(Sony specs)

Description:

Sony's KD-34XS955 is the first non-XBR model to feature their breakthrough Super Fine Pitch™ CRT technology. If you demand the unsurpassed picture quality of a top-notch tube TV, why not get one with High-Definition reception and future-ready A/V connections, to ensure years of captivating viewing.

 

Specifications:

Key Features:

 

» Hi-Scan High-Definition TV (receives and decodes HDTV/SDTV signals and displays them at 1080i or 480p)

» built-in over-the-air HDTV (ATSC) tuner (see our antennas)

» Digital Cable Ready design with CableCARD slot

» widescreen 16:9 aspect ratio

» Super Fine Pitch Aperture Grill

» selectable color temperature control

» DRC MultiFunction (upconverts non-HD signals to 960i or 480p)

» CineMotion™ 3-2 pulldown processing

» 181-channel NTSC tuner

» multibrand remote control

» video input labeling

» 7 A/V inputs, including:

• 4 composite video (3 rear, 1 front)

• 3 S-video (2 rear, 1 front)

• 2 rear-panel HD-compatible component video

(accepts 1080i/720p/480p/480i signals)

• 1 rear-panel HDMI digital audio/video input with HDCP copy protection

» 2 RF inputs for antenna/cable signals

» Enhanced Memory Stick playback (JPEG, MPEG)

» Energy Star® compliant

» 30 watts total (7.5 x 2, plus 15 for subwoofer)

» optical digital audio output for Dolby® Digital

» 39-1/8"W x 25-7/8"H x 22-7/8"D

 

 

[Jeepenfool]

I am also haveing the same cropping issue on my 4-5 year old Toshiba rear projection HDTV. I agree with all of you that this kind of sucks... to wait so long... with so much hype... and then have a simple cropping issue deter and lessen the experience.

 

I will likely reset my output to 480p for the time being till there is iether a fix or I get a different TV.

 

I'm really surprised that R* didn't see this coming. I think this will damage there credibility. I'm sure it won't hurt there wallets to much, but I may not be so eager next time to get the first release of a new game.

 

Good luck...

 

Happy gaming

[compta]

 

Agree with El Benson. I have 3 other games which run fine in 1080i. No Cropping at all.

Compta, thx for the information.  Interesting thing is your CRT 34KD-XS955 CRT supports 720p & 1080i. (See below) The GAME per other threads in the forums is Native 720p which is upscaled by either the PS3 or the TV to 1080i/p. LAre you sure the game is running in 1080i or is it dropping to 720p?    If it is indeed working at 1080i - maybe your CRT understands the upscaling correctly because it knows 720p.

 

Another interesting note is that others are having similar cropping issues with 1080p as well.

 

I am not sure how R* can put 1080i and 1080p as SUPPORTED on the box when 1080i or 1080p does not work for most.

 

Andi,

 

My Xbox 360 is configured to display content at 1080i and the info page for the input shows the incoming signal is 1080i, so my television is both receiving and displaying a 1080i signal not upscaling a 720p signal from the Xbox 360. I'm not getting any cropping, but remember, I adjusted my overscan setting in the service menu to fix cropping issues I had with other games a couple years back. I didn't even know I had a cropping issue until I noticed my ammo counter being cutoff while playing Perfect Dark Zero, many games before that looked fine and weren't cropping at all.

 

Developers have to decide how much (percentage wise) to adjust inward from the edge of the screen when displaying the HUD to compensate for overscan on CRTs; this is typically a 5-10% push inward. Since this is a choice of the developer, and a unique one, I wouldn't judge cropping by a few games. It is entirely possible that your TV is not at fault, but it is also possible that these games you are testing with are just properly adjusted for your display. This is why I suggested checking for cropping on the Xbox 360 dashboard; check the photo below to see exactly how this should look at the edges; if you aren't seeing the large amounts of blank gray space past the marketplace and system blades, then you need to adjust your overscan setting.

 

 

In my case, the marketplace and system blade were at the edge of the screen and were not getting cropped off but I did not have the gray "empty space" past the blades, the blades simply sat at the edge of the screen. At the time, it looked like that's how it was supposed to be but I realized how much was being cropped once I adjusted my overscan.

 

Also, to my knowledge, whatever the highest HDTV format your TV supports, be it CRT, LCD, DLP or Plasma, this is the default resolution your television runs at, regardless of the signal coming in. LCD's and other flat panel televisions can adjust to display other resolutions (ie. 1 pixel from the signal is displayed with multiple pixels) but CRTs cannot, they only have one resolution and any lower quality signals must first be upscaled before displaying them.

 

In my instance, the highest signal my TV supports is 1080i, therefore no matter what I change my rendering to in my Xbox 360, my TV will upscale the signal it receives to 1080i. "Technically" 720p is what my Xbox 360 rendering setting should be set to because being displayed at 720p "should" be smother and better quality for videogames because of the progressive scan over interlaced. For me, this is not the case because my TV would take that 720p signal and upscale it to 1080i before it can be displayed negating any benefit. Having two of my TV's next to each other running the same content only one signal at 720p and the other at 1080i should show near identical performance (upscaling 720p to 1080i would be less clear than a pure 1080i unscaled, but this is debatable.)

 

If your Xbox 360 dashboard looks like the image above, I'd be confident in saying that this is a problem with the game itself and not your display, hope this helps.

Edited May 1, 2008 by compta

[andi9]

compta, thx for your excellent & comprehensive response. Let me check if I can find the service menus for the toshiba tvs and adjust overscan setting slightly based on your suggestions. I did confirm that 480p works perfect but the resolution is nothing close to the 1080i.

 

btw- I still think R* putting SUPPORTED=1080i/1080p on the box is deceptive. They should have put 1080p/1080i supported only for select TVs.

Cheers, Andi

[compta]

 

compta, thx for your excellent & comprehensive response. Let me check if I can find the service menus for the toshiba tvs and adjust overscan setting slightly based on your suggestions. I did confirm that 480p works perfect but the resolution is nothing close to the 1080i.

 

btw- I still think R* putting SUPPORTED=1080i/1080p on the box is deceptive. They should have put 1080p/1080i supported only for select TVs.

Cheers, Andi

Not a problem.

 

It is entirely possible that this isn't your television, in my case, it was. The section where it displays my current amount of money is close enough to the edge that it would be cropped if I hadn't adjusted my overscan in the past.

 

I would check www.avsforum.com or search google for your specific make/model display along with the keywords "service menu." This is usually activated by pressing a sequence on the remote followed by powering it on which displays this menu. Be aware that this could potentially hurt your television if set to an extreme value, adjust in the smallest increments possible for the safest operation. Good luck,

[Jmeat]

Registered just to post my experience as well.

 

I have a 3-4 year old Phillips CRT HDTV (Model number escapes me). I also have the same issues. The TV supports SD, 480p and 1080i. I have the right and left sides of the screen cropped to the point where the mini-map in the lower left is missing about 5-10% and I can see a small portion of the weapon in the upper right.

 

I am running the PS3 version @ 1080i.

 

I have UT3 and AC, both work perfect @ 1080i.

[BalekFekete]

 

*snip - lots of great info*

 

Well, first off Andi9, thanks for the great information. With it, I can easily confirm that my problem is the overscan. How do I know ... well, check it out:

 

 

Pretty evident when compared to your picture. I'm going to call an ISF (I think that's what it's called) technician to see if I can get it fixed in the service menu. I'm WAY too scared to go into that myself. Thanks again for the info.

 

B.

 

P.S. BTW, for those who noticed, yes, that is a special edition elite fresh from Microsoft. Won it off a website on Monday, and it arrived on Tuesday. To quote Kevin Spacey from American Beauty - "I ROCK!"

[compta]

 

 

Pretty evident when compared to your picture.  I'm going to call an ISF (I think that's what it's called) technician to see if I can get it fixed in the service menu.  I'm WAY too scared to go into that myself.  Thanks again for the info.

 

B.

Hey, glad I could help . It's clear that your television's overscan is set too high, the blades sit almost right at the edge of the screen which makes one assume this is how it's supposed to be, this is exactly how my set was before I corrected for overscan. I had only one game cropping out of 6-7 games I was playing at the time, once I compared my dashboard to a similar picture online it confirmed that my overscan needed to be corrected.

 

As for changing this yourself, I would suggest saving the money and doing it yourself if at all possible, it is easy and safe if you take your time and read up online (www.avsforum.com) how to perform this on your particular model television. The service menu is just that, a menu, it's no different than changing the brightness from your regular menu.

 

I have just been throwing out the warning that you should NOT go into the service menu and just start changing values if you don't know what you are doing. Educate yourself and see what each value change will do before changing them; in my case I had 3 different values for horizontal screen size/overscan, each did something different and I had to find out which one I needed to change to fix the problem I was having. If you have a proper understanding of what you need to change and read how to do this online, you can have 100% confidence that you will not screw up your television.

 

After reading this, if you still don't feel comfortable (trust me, I understand) or have the time to learn how to do this correctly, I would then recommend having your television calibrated by a professional. Calibration will include proper settings for color correction, brightness, contrast, sharpness, overscan and geometry. Either way, enjoy the extra 3-5" of screen space you've been missing from all your games and DVD's!

 

Congrats on the Elite GTA console, looks awesome.

[The Zeppelin]

I have the 360 version and have a Hitachi 57f510 CRT TV. I am having the same problem with the sides being cropped. I always run the 360 at 1080i as this is the native resolution of my TV and it always looks fantastic.

In addition the text/cellphone is blurry and the graphics didn't look the best. (almost stretched) I tried both 1080i and 720p and had the same results. HOWEVER, I then switched my xbox to 480p widescreen and WOW what a difference. The aspect ratio changed (for the better) and the text was clear and the graphics are alot better..... (they are actually quite good even at 480p) no more cut off sides, no more weird graphic things. I had the same problems with this TV when Halo 2 came out (till they patched it)

 

Hopefully in a little while there will be a patch to fix this, as I'd love to play this game in HD. Till then I will stick with 480p widescreen. Hope this helps some people with older HDTV's.

 

 

[ImagesAndWords]

Hey guys,

I found this forum through a Google search on my issue. In a way, it's good to see I'm not alone with this problem...

 

My TV is an 8 year old Toshiba 61" rear-projector CRT from their Colorstream "HD Ready" series. Its physical format is 4:3 and not 16:9. It supports 1080i and 480p. I have played countless games on it over the years and several on the old Xbox that supported 1080i. All games I have tested so far on my Xbox360 works fine in 1080i, but GTA IV is the first game I have had problems with.

 

On some of the games, the screen is "squeezed" to fit into the 4:3 format. On some games, it looks a little odd - but I can deal with it. All huds are always visible. That was...until GTA IV came out.

 

R* seems to have ignored any squeezing or screen optimization altogether and just assumed that EVERYONE has a 16:9 TV.

 

I have the exact same HUD issues many of you here write about. In the game, I never get to read what the tutorial text says, and I have to go to the Menu every time to read the Brief, just so I can read what was said. I can only see 1/4 of the weapon I carry up in the top right corner and can NEVER see how much ammo I have. Just a glimpse of what looks like the bottom of a fist, a pistol, etc. VERY frustrating....

 

When it comes to my Xbox360 menu, I have never seen those grey areas to the left and right side of the screen as someone showed in a picture here. Even the Marketplace and System tabs are partly cropped.

 

I will try to find a service menu / overscan fix for my tv, but I really do think R* should fix this with a patch. Shouldn't be hard for them at all to do so. I mean, all other games I play in 1080i has a solution to this problem and shows me all HUD and screen info properly on my 4:3 display. There is no reason for R* not to fix this.

 

Here's my proposal:

I think we should start a petition, where people can sign up to a list (with their email address or whatever), and when we have enough "signatures" (like 100+ people), we can send it off to R* and demand a patch.

 

What do you say guys?

 

 

everyone here and on other forums

 

 

[compta]

 

Hey guys,

I found this forum through a Google search on my issue. In a way, it's good to see I'm not alone with this problem...

 

My TV is an 8 year old Toshiba 61" rear-projector CRT from their Colorstream "HD Ready" series. Its physical format is 4:3 and not 16:9. It supports 1080i and 480p. I have played countless games on it over the years and several on the old Xbox that supported 1080i. All games I have tested so far on my Xbox360 works fine in 1080i, but GTA IV is the first game I have had problems with.

 

On some of the games, the screen is "squeezed" to fit into the 4:3 format. On some games, it looks a little odd - but I can deal with it. All huds are always visible. That was...until GTA IV came out.

 

R* seems to have ignored any squeezing or screen optimization altogether and just assumed that EVERYONE has a 16:9 TV.

 

I have the exact same HUD issues many of you here write about. In the game, I never get to read what the tutorial text says, and I have to go to the Menu every time to read the Brief, just so I can read what was said. I can only see 1/4 of the weapon I carry up in the top right corner and can NEVER see how much ammo I have. Just a glimpse of what looks like the bottom of a fist, a pistol, etc. VERY frustrating.... 

 

When it comes to my Xbox360 menu, I have never seen those grey areas to the left and right side of the screen as someone showed in a picture here. Even the Marketplace and System tabs are partly cropped. 

 

I will try to find a service menu / overscan fix for my tv, but I really do think R* should fix this with a patch. Shouldn't be hard for them at all to do so. I mean, all other games I play in 1080i has a solution to this problem and shows me all HUD and screen info properly on my 4:3 display. There is no reason for R* not to fix this.

 

Here's my proposal:

I think we should start a petition, where people can sign up to a list (with their email address or whatever), and when we have enough "signatures" (like 100+ people), we can send it off to R* and demand a patch.

 

What do you say guys?

 

 

everyone here and on other forums

If the dashboard is cropped off like you describe, then it's not GTA that is giving you your issues, it's you television.

 

The fact that you are experiencing cropping with the dashboard proves your television's overscan is to blame. Seeing as your television is eight years old and being configured before widescreen and high definition signals were mainstream, your overscan settings are no longer in tune with what is now a common signal.

 

Check your 360's dashboard settings, make sure you have your HDTV properties set to 4:3 and correct your overscan. It's not the Xbox or GTA IV, it's your display; it needs to be set properly to display the signal sent by the console.

Edited May 6, 2008 by compta