Danthethug Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 That argument is not very good, but the main point he is trying to express is the BluRay storage is mostly thought out in terms of HiDef movie storage, as a data and game resource (for developers/coders), it has a bigger evolutionary road. In terms of movies, BluRay Live or BD Live is the big thing, but it equates to DVD ROM online features to me and again, not all that exciting, yet. Never count these capabilities out, they haven't been exploited. One can argue that may never be fully realized, but sadly, that's only known in hind-sight Yes, I would say my argument is not exactly focused on what I wanted it to be. The point I was trying to make is that just because Blu-Ray has up to 50GB of storage on it, that does nothing for you or me when its being used with a game. A game would take up a fraction of that, so all that space is going to waste, and you just practically paid premium rate for a game, and 35GB you'll never get to actually use. Movies would be great on Blu-Ray, but keep it out of games, its not exactly the best, seeing as you're going to have almost an entire server worth of storage that you will NEVER be able to touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesmccoy Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Really, HD-DVD and Blu-Ray weren't all that different. Of course Blu-Ray displays a pretty picture and all, but it is still slow, and if anyone should consider it Next Generation, it should be better in all categories compared to the format it's replacing, and it just isn't better in the speed category. I read recently that a Blu-Ray's speed is consistent (ie, it always runs at 2x) while a DVD's speed fluctuates (sometimes 1x, somtimes 12x). And don't both drives read data differently? I'm not up to spec on the differences between DVD & Blu-Ray, but it's beginning to sound like the old CD to DVD comparison that was all the rage back in 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DruidB Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 The game is NOT LIMITED BY 360's DVD size... as it could be a multi disc game with an install.... almost all 360 owners have a HD... this should not even be a debate... do you not play games on your pc? does it have bluray? are you limited in game size on your pc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slamman Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Really, HD-DVD and Blu-Ray weren't all that different. Of course Blu-Ray displays a pretty picture and all, but it is still slow, and if anyone should consider it Next Generation, it should be better in all categories compared to the format it's replacing, and it just isn't better in the speed category. I read recently that a Blu-Ray's speed is consistent (ie, it always runs at 2x) while a DVD's speed fluctuates (sometimes 1x, somtimes 12x). And don't both drives read data differently? I'm not up to spec on the differences between DVD & Blu-Ray, but it's beginning to sound like the old CD to DVD comparison that was all the rage back in 2000. As far as "speed" in a 5 inch optical discs, based on what I recall, it has to spin faster when the optical laser diode is at the outside of the spinning disc (500RPM), as it moves to the center (where the TOC is normally) it is down to 200RPM. There is consistency there. Also, as Rockstar themselves said in the press, they are quite happy with the way the engine is now running on both systems. They don't play into making one better then the other, they are actually trying to make this a shared experience. I don't expect anything at all to detract from full on game enjoyment.... You?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesmccoy Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 The game is NOT LIMITED BY 360's DVD size... as it could be a multi disc game with an install.... almost all 360 owners have a HD... this should not even be a debate... do you not play games on your pc? does it have bluray? are you limited in game size on your pc? Yes! ---- I thought that Houser was simply discussing the 'problem' of the lack of HDD's on many 360's, not the limitations of the DVD format. Maybe I missed something. ::postscript:: Houser is the second developer, after Kojima, to 'complain' about console limitations. What were these guys doing on the previous generation's systems? I didn't hear as many complaints back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxPowers87 Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 (edited) Most ignorant people will try to spot visual differences between HD-DVD and Bluray when there arent any. Please read up that. The war was not decided by the consumer, it was decided by Warner. Microsoft was wise not to make the HD-DVD drive internal, not only for the obvious reason.. But because if they had they would be in the same sh*tty position as Sony. Slow read speeds, long loading times, wasted hard drive space. Microsoft knew the DVD could stick around a bit longer and would actually be an advantage over Sony because of the faster loading speeds. It certainly has not been a hindrance in any of the 360 titles so far. Edited April 23, 2008 by MaxPowers87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slamman Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 At least cede to the fact that Sony sticking with their plan solely their own, mind you, to incorporate the BD drive as their vision of something more then just a console, paid off in adopting a new format and it needed to be done, there was such a long friggin hold up in the move to HD, and the FCC even fudged on it with all the TV station's complaints. Now the public is forced to make the move. In the long run we all get a HT environment for gaming and TV, AND movies. That large BD space will come into play, sooner then later, as we advance ever quicker. I am not advocating longer development while we wait for a game, mind you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxPowers87 Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 (edited) At least cede to the fact that Sony sticking with their plan solely their own, mind you, to incorporate the BD drive as their vision of something more then just a console, paid off in adopting a new format and it needed to be done, there was such a long friggin hold up in the move to HD, and the FCC even fudged on it with all the TV station's complaints. Now the public is forced to make the move. In the long run we all get a HT environment for gaming and TV, AND movies. That large BD space will come into play, sooner then later, as we advance ever quicker. I am not advocating longer development while we wait for a game, mind you. The reason to make the bluray drive internal was purely to push the format onto the consumer and win the format war. It came at a price. The drives arent the greatest.. it isnt the best bluray player on the market.. They sacrificed the gaming experience for their format. Good for them. You have a mediocre media machine.. and very poor game library, they rolled the dice again and this time they lost it. PS2 got very lucky but this just isnt the time for sony. Edited April 23, 2008 by MaxPowers87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badass4ever Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 again.. Xbox f*cked us over... i've said it many times... No doubt about that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTE777 Posted April 23, 2008 Author Share Posted April 23, 2008 Could it be possible that sony doesnt give a real crap about the ps3 in terms of winning but by using it to push BD and the Cell as they wish to mass implement Cells and BD technology into other mediums such as tv's etc so they can dominate the technology market? Just a thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slamman Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Doesn't have to be the BEST, incorporated at a killer price is good enough. The ONLY complaint I EVER had was expecting a HD recording format included into the PS3, that was my early assumption and really took the wind out of my sails. I have no complaints with anything else about it. a DVD and CD ROM work just fine in it, and it doesn't hold up PS2 games either, if supported. I am not registering the same complaints voiced here. The only issue I had was a few minor freeze ups... I can't complain at all at this point. I am fully HD ready with my hardware, just need an HDTV. N'uff said, it will benefit in the long run. BD won't be replaced soon, I wager (money on that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxPowers87 Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Could it be possible that sony doesnt give a real crap about the ps3 in terms of winning but by using it to push BD and the Cell as they wish to mass implement Cells and BD technology into other mediums such as tv's etc so they can dominate the technology market? Just a thought... We all know this. Winning a format standard means much more revenue than a successful console. Sony has wanted this for so many years and they finally have it. I think when it comes to this generations consoles Sony could care less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtenebrous Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 You guys all argue about the most mind numbingly boring things!!! For a start, YES 360 out sells PS3... big f*cking deal, that does not mean it is better... But have you thought that it is because the average price of a 360 is about 450 bucks, whereas a PS3 is about 600 bucks... I bought mine for $999 (I know i got ripped, but i bought it because i thought GTA IV was coming out in OCTOBER 07!!). Most of you twats that bought a 360 probably wouldn't even come across that much money in a year and you have some deep seeded hatred for people that could afford one!! I own both and i prefer PS3. The controller is better the graphics are better (I owned Assassins Creed on both and got rid of the 360 version... sh*thouse!!) EVERYTHING IS BETTER ON PS3!!! Don't get me wrong I love 360's but MY PERSONAL FAVOURITE is PS3. Leave us (the people who could afford a PS3) alone... All you sound like is a baby that didn't get their bottle and trying to justify why you didn't just save up for an extra couple of months and buy a REAL console. GET OVER IT!!! some people like PS3's some 360's. I don't like the people that own 360's cos all they whine about is how much better it is than a PS3... PS3 owners KNOW the truth!! You're an idiot, I own a 360, I enjoy the 360, the 360 has all the good games PS3 currently has and more for a much lower price, I would rather have a 360, pay £40 for a new game and have an awesome online experience that buy a PS3 when the only good exclusive games out at the moment are Motorstorm and Warhawk and all the other decent games are just ported from the 360, PS3 will be better but only when they release something exclusive that doesn't suck, Littlebigplanet is looking good for it And that whole thing about 360 owners not being able to afford PS3s is stupid as I could afford a new PS3 every month but there is no reason to buy a new console for 2 games, nothing appeals to me about the PS3 except Motorstorm, Warhawk and Littlebigplanet, even that "Home" rubbish looks...Well rubbish to me, if I wanted to waste my time on stupid little chat clients I'd use Secondlife and use the PS3 for games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxPowers87 Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Doesn't have to be the BEST, incorporated at a killer price is good enough. The ONLY complaint I EVER had was expecting a HD recording format included into the PS3, that was my early assumption and really took the wind out of my sails. I have no complaints with anything else about it. a DVD and CD ROM work just fine in it, and it doesn't hold up PS2 games either, if supported. I am not registering the same complaints voiced here. The only issue I had was a few minor freeze ups... I can't complain at all at this point. I am fully HD ready with my hardware, just need an HDTV. N'uff said, it will benefit in the long run. BD won't be replaced soon, I wager (money on that) Well, This will very likely be the LAST physical format we'll ever see... I am glad we are moving into the true digital era and I'd be happy to see Blu-ray have a short, brief, miserable DRM packed life on this planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DruidB Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 again.. Xbox f*cked us over... i've said it many times... RETARDS! At least cede to the fact that Sony sticking with their plan solely their own, mind you, to incorporate the BD drive as their vision of something more then just a console, paid off in adopting a new format and it needed to be done, there was such a long friggin hold up in the move to HD, and the FCC even fudged on it with all the TV station's complaints. Now the public is forced to make the move. In the long run we all get a HT environment for gaming and TV, AND movies. That large BD space will come into play, sooner then later, as we advance ever quicker. I am not advocating longer development while we wait for a game, mind you. I agree... (i usually agree to all your posts lol) The move the HD needed to be forced upon people.. it was taking forever and it was a great move by Sony... I use my Ps3 as a bluray player only... i have yet to purchase a game for it due to the fact i have yet to see a sony exclusive game that really pulls me in... and most of my R/L friends have 360's... hence why i pre ordered for xbox... but sony was very wise in getting the tech into many homes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slamman Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 You're lucky this thread is still open, a Mod already looked in on it. Before it turns ugly, I propose to you how Betamax was a BAD idea? I don't find that true... VHS won for the reason of length over quality, plainly stated. Sony had a vision for their OWN product, though I heard of their plans on the table before the product, I agree they have something people HAVE to adapt to but that really true of anything in a Free Enterprise (see that movie, Trekkies!) Sony is losing money as some FB's are quick to point out in their effort to make the PS3 appealing, that means they are banking on it, and I do feel they care. Again, IBM developed BOTH CPUs... look it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTE777 Posted April 23, 2008 Author Share Posted April 23, 2008 Could it be possible that sony doesnt give a real crap about the ps3 in terms of winning but by using it to push BD and the Cell as they wish to mass implement Cells and BD technology into other mediums such as tv's etc so they can dominate the technology market? Just a thought... We all know this. Winning a format standard means much more revenue than a successful console. Sony has wanted this for so many years and they finally have it. I think when it comes to this generations consoles Sony could care less. Say for example, sony gets its cell chip and blu-ray player into every tv, every media device, pc's etc., imagine the market share they will have then in terms of gaming...its all becoming obvious now, they had to do something to stop them losing as much money as they have in recent times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxPowers87 Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 (edited) Could it be possible that sony doesnt give a real crap about the ps3 in terms of winning but by using it to push BD and the Cell as they wish to mass implement Cells and BD technology into other mediums such as tv's etc so they can dominate the technology market? Just a thought... We all know this. Winning a format standard means much more revenue than a successful console. Sony has wanted this for so many years and they finally have it. I think when it comes to this generations consoles Sony could care less. Say for example, sony gets its cell chip and blu-ray player into every tv, every media device, pc's etc., imagine the market share they will have then in terms of gaming...its all becoming obvious now, they had to do something to stop them losing as much money as they have in recent times. They don't care about gaming. The PS3 is a bluray player that can also play games. I hate Sony's shady marketing tactics, The PSP and its stupid UMD format is another dirty trick to get consumers tangled up in their proprietary EXPENSIVE formats. The Memory stick pro duo. The Minidisc, its all a bunch of bullsh*t and it needs to stop. I simply hope sonys bluray win gets them to shut the f*ck up and stops them from praying on stupid misinformed consumers that think their format is somehow "better" than the competitors well established and less expensive formats. Sony can burn in hell. Edited April 23, 2008 by MaxPowers87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badass4ever Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Ummmmm VHS won and was around for ages.... just like blu ray defeated hd dvd Sony was backing BetaMax, JVC was backing VHS. That is what I was hinting at. I did not say BetaMax beat VHS, I just said take a look at that format war and learn from it. MY friend, times has changed. you cant go comparing video casste war to new edge state of the art teacnology -hd war! o.k, obviously sony had its mistakes back then... but today we are talking about HD-DVD VS BLURAY DISC. and i think we got a winner. whats gonna happen in the future it's a whole different story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DruidB Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Could it be possible that sony doesnt give a real crap about the ps3 in terms of winning but by using it to push BD and the Cell as they wish to mass implement Cells and BD technology into other mediums such as tv's etc so they can dominate the technology market? Just a thought... We all know this. Winning a format standard means much more revenue than a successful console. Sony has wanted this for so many years and they finally have it. I think when it comes to this generations consoles Sony could care less. Say for example, sony gets its cell chip and blu-ray player into every tv, every media device, pc's etc., imagine the market share they will have then in terms of gaming...its all becoming obvious now, they had to do something to stop them losing as much money as they have in recent times. They don't care about gaming. The PS3 is a bluray player that can also play games. I hate Sony's shady marketing tactics, The PSP and its stupid UMD format is another dirty trick to get consumers tangled up in their proprietary EXPENSIVE formats. The Memory stick pro duo. The Minidisc, its all a bunch of bullsh*t and it needs to stop. I simply hope sonys bluray win gets them to shut the f*ck up and stops them from praying on stupid misinformed consumers that think their format is somehow "better" than the competitors well established and less expensive formats. Sony can burn in hell. There is ALOT of truth in what you are saying... Sony has a long history of releasing nazi proprietary formats... i fear this will not change... though at least there is now one official HD format... For now anyways... im sure that will change sooner than we would all like i fear.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DruidB Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Ummmmm VHS won and was around for ages.... just like blu ray defeated hd dvd Sony was backing BetaMax, JVC was backing VHS. That is what I was hinting at. I did not say BetaMax beat VHS, I just said take a look at that format war and learn from it. MY friend, times has changed. you cant go comparing video casste war to new edge state of the art teacnology -hd war! o.k, obviously sony had its mistakes back then... but today we are talking about HD-DVD VS BLURAY DISC. and i think we got a winner. whats gonna happen in the future it's a whole different story im not sure what you are saying... is this sarcasm? it makes sense to compair the beta/vhs situation with the current HD one... the only difference is this time there was no quality difference between the formats... HD DVD or Blueray... they both give you the same picture... Unlike Beta vs VHS.. in that senario the better format lost... well.. lost in the mainstream market... Beta was still used for media and broadcasting long after VHS won the household victory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slamman Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 MiniDisc and camcorders from Sony, I use them. Studio Monitor and Walkman products, I use them. Betamax and .... Whatever else I forgot, I use that too, but I don't limit myself. Neither do you, it's not about Sony making EVERYTHING you own, but they DO make about every type of product you can use. They also make most things average rather then state of the art. I hate how Sony supported LaserDisc. It was half-assed, to be honest. Betamax was not openly licensed and cheap, another area where they slipped up. No company is perfect but they are free to come up with their own designs. Not all proprietary things are bad, but it is typically done to make sales of specific replacement parts, avenues of repair, etc. This ultimately backfires in terms of a consumers need to upgrade, or modify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxPowers87 Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 (edited) MiniDisc and camcorders from Sony, I use them.Studio Monitor and Walkman products, I use them. Betamax and .... Whatever else I forgot, I use that too, but I don't limit myself. Neither do you, it's not about Sony making EVERYTHING you own, but they DO make about every type of product you can use. They also make most things average rather then state of the art. I hate how Sony supported LaserDisc. It was half-assed, to be honest. Betamax was not openly licensed and cheap, another area where they slipped up. No company is perfect but they are free to come up with their own designs. Not all proprietary things are bad, but it is typically done to make sales of specific replacement parts, avenues of repair, etc. This ultimately backfires in terms of a consumers need to upgrade, or modify. Slamman, It would be wise for you to cut your defense short. The formats are not a generous service for the consumer. It is a dirty trick to lock people into OVERPRICED formats. I do not buy sony products because of this, and im not alone.. smart customers will look out for this. I didn't buy that sony digital camera... And i didn't buy the camcorder.. No way in hell am I stupid enough to get the overpriced sh*tty products that require expensive memory sticks. You know what? I bought the HD-DVD drive for the 360.. Laugh. I bought it from amazon for $80 and got 6 free movies... I also got $50 back from amazon for doing it... How nice of them. I bought the planet earth series from amazon for $8, yes and the bluray version is still $80.. The players are overpriced and are still first gen models. The discs are still expensive.. HD-DVD was the right choice.. It was, it was less expensive, used existing technology to keep costs low.. For the consumer. Sony is raking in the cash right now because customers are too dimwitted to notice when they are being screwed. Edited April 23, 2008 by MaxPowers87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DruidB Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 MiniDisc and camcorders from Sony, I use them.Studio Monitor and Walkman products, I use them. Betamax and .... Whatever else I forgot, I use that too, but I don't limit myself. Neither do you, it's not about Sony making EVERYTHING you own, but they DO make about every type of product you can use. They also make most things average rather then state of the art. I hate how Sony supported LaserDisc. It was half-assed, to be honest. Betamax was not openly licensed and cheap, another area where they slipped up. No company is perfect but they are free to come up with their own designs. Not all proprietary things are bad, but it is typically done to make sales of specific replacement parts, avenues of repair, etc. This ultimately backfires in terms of a consumers need to upgrade, or modify. I hear you... i use alot of Sony products as well... MiniDisc IMO was a great format... all im saying is that if they go their own way... they need to at least make the tech more compatible with other brands/formats... they lose sales due to this type of thinking... i used to see it on the sales floor, for 10 years I was a manager for a large Electronics retailer and many people preferred products that used more common and usually cheaper media Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slamman Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 You, however, say Sony Burn in Hell. I cannot agree with that, even if you torture me to persuade my opinion. I love MiniDisc, much easier to use then CD R and CD RW! Try it some time, you'd like it. I also LOVE my HandyCam, only fault there is the audio end of things. Sony makes a lot of good moves, they're no evil empire. I also think Bill Gates ain't the devil incarnate either. You're getting far too emotional and you need to step back and look at the tech for it's usefulness alone, that's the best judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxPowers87 Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 (edited) You, however, say Sony Burn in Hell. I cannot agree with that, even if you torture me to persuade my opinion. I love MiniDisc, much easier to use then CD R and CD RW! Try it some time, you'd like it. I also LOVE my HandyCam, only fault there is the audio end of things. Sony makes a lot of good moves, they're no evil empire. I also think Bill Gates ain't the devil incarnate either. You're getting far too emotional and you need to step back and look at the tech for it's usefulness alone, that's the best judge. Or i can be like you and be completely ignorant to all aspects of marketing, technology and the future of technology. If you'd like to know Gates' opinion he says physical media is on the way out the door. and I believe he's absolutely right. Sony can soak up those profits now. But I am certain they will not be enjoying the long life DVD or VHS saw. Edited April 23, 2008 by MaxPowers87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJLance2006 Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 M$ are stupid... they supported the wrong platform... i cant believe the GTA is even on that piss weak machine.. YES i said it... I dont care... truth hurts... 5 days till it comes out... sall i care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DruidB Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 M$ are stupid... they supported the wrong platform... i cant believe the GTA is even on that piss weak machine.. YES i said it... I dont care... truth hurts... 5 days till it comes out... sall i care about. oh boy... lol lots of very smart tech savy people on this forum... sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxPowers87 Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 M$ are stupid... they supported the wrong platform... i cant believe the GTA is even on that piss weak machine.. YES i said it... I dont care... truth hurts... 5 days till it comes out... sall i care about. Care to look into Xbox live and the marketplace? It's a success. They focused on the online service and they made the right decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slamman Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 You, however, say Sony Burn in Hell. I cannot agree with that, even if you torture me to persuade my opinion. I love MiniDisc, much easier to use then CD R and CD RW! Try it some time, you'd like it. I also LOVE my HandyCam, only fault there is the audio end of things. Sony makes a lot of good moves, they're no evil empire. I also think Bill Gates ain't the devil incarnate either. You're getting far too emotional and you need to step back and look at the tech for it's usefulness alone, that's the best judge. Or i can be like you and be completely ignorant to all aspects of marketing, technology and the future of technology. If you'd like to know Gates' opinion he says physical media is on the way out the door. and I believe he's absolutely right. Sony can soak up those profits now. But I am certain they will not be enjoying the long life DVD or VHS saw. I don't agree completely with anyone, and yeah, I'd include you as well. And Bill Gates. No one here can read the future, No one at IBM and Sony, or Electronic Arts, or Take 2. etc. The list goes on. This debate can rage on and on, but time will tell only, who's right, wrong, or even close. I entered into Sony ownership reluctantly, not forcefed. I am a skeptic I like products that deliver and no one is really complaining about having the cheapest BD player on the market that also plays HD next gen games. I feel the Xbox is more one sighted then PS3. PSP is not too bad either UMD is as it is to play games and video, that is the only way one can see it is Universal, so it is a stretch in naming it UMD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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