deyessorc Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Do you really believe that your body with all its complexities was just an accident. Come on, use your brain for just a minute. No, it was not an accident. It happened through millions of years of evolution. And since your idea of "using your brain" amounts to "The magic man poofed it out of thin air" I think you should step back, open some science books & open your mind to the truth. Don't just sit there & deny things because they go against your beliefs. Learn to evolve your knowledge. It doesn't matter what you believe or a Christian believes. Being a physician, going through medical school alone learning the intricacies of the systemic functions of the body is enough alone to convince me about design and intention. The purpose and code imbedded in the nucleus of a cell is unexplainable, though we are getting closer and closer - it is still very vague and differentiation of cell function is very unknown. You may argue code, code, code but it goes beyond code. I also had a bit of a laugh with a poster above who said the big bang just happened and that it is all evidence. As a scientist, that statement alone is not true. Impossible at this point to know that the big bang came before all - even objective scientists in the know will tell you this. Anywho, it doesn't matter what anyone believes on here because nobody is going to convince anyone else of their side. That is what gets me about arguments such as this - you cannot get anywhere with inflamatory speech and certainly nobody is going to be 'converted' to either side on a GTA message board. Please do not lump all Christians into non-logical and unintelligent or weak, as I will not make assumptions regarding atheists or anyone else. I strive to love everyone though this can be difficult. My .02. Dr. John Oh, I didn't say unintelligent or weak. A lot of religious believers are smart. As for illogical, a point can be made that to believe without evidence is illogical. To be convinced of magic because something evolved into a complex being is illogical & kind of "close-the-book, story over" closed-minded. And no, the Big Bang is not proven, although there is proof to back it up. A hell of a lot more proof than basically NOTHING. You're right, no one is going to turn someone to the other side. I ran a religious debate board for many years. And throughout our intelligent (and sometimes not intelligent) discussions, there was only one convert. A man who came to the board a Satanist & left with the belief in something else. But it is fun to see why people do believe in what they do, don't you think? Actually, again, please do not assume. There are creationists who believe in a young and old earth. And by old, I mean millions of years...well you know this stuff already if you ran a board. As someone who is a proponent of evolution alone without intelligence behind it, you surely know then that evolution and big bang - while being a wonderful theory and makes sense, still not a law. To me it just makes much more sense knowing on a microbiological level that this was not accidental nor was it due to unicellular beings being the beginning to what is now an extremely complex human brain. There is no definitive proof of this as well, so please refrain from saying that Christians (or religion for that matter) is ridiculous for believing in a cloud-sitting person and making humankind "poof" out of the air when in fact there is tremendous burden to proove the very difficult questions that arise from evolution ALONE and the big bang ALONE. By the same logic and token, you (or those who choose to incite an angry response from a side in this case Christians seem to be the majority being ridiculed) are just as accountable to the same faith system, and in many cases (I won't get into this) much much more. You surely also should know that a belief in a creator does not preclude the big bang theory from being very viable. I am so so very surprised that so many people who argue against creationism miss this! But I'm just weak and unintelligent I suppose. Yes it is true that there are closed minded types in Christianity and that is a shame because much of that or other things (molestation, for example) gives us a bad name when, in fact, this exists in ALL SIDES, no? I love how child molestation or closed-mindedness is singled out when arguing for/against religion. So there are no child molesters in the atheist community? Interesting. At least we can agree (as Gog you pointed out) that there is not much of a point to this as you gave a good example with your board producing one 'convert' either way. Finally, yes it is very interesting to debate such things, I would never disagree with this. It is when inflammatory speech and purposefully trying to incite anger from one side with ridicule is simply in need of a lock as it is very offensive to myself for one. Imagine me calling a certain race or culture weak, non-intelligent, etc. etc. Would this not beg for a lock? You would be very welcome at my board....if it were still around. And yes, my statements were very general as to who they were aimed at. Comes from years of debating with fundamentalists, which most of the believers here seemed to be. You are in the minority, whether you believe it or not. And, I never bring up child-molesters, just as I would not bring up terrorists in the Muslim faith. Gog, To keep this from becoming a "wall" of a post/reply, I will briefly say I respect your words. Peace John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gog Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Gog, To keep this from becoming a "wall" of a post/reply, I will briefly say I respect your words. Peace John Peace! Ringo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sattizahn Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 ...peace? -Sattizahn (I thought I would throw my hat in the ring ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKlorox Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Attempting to prove someone else wrong doesn't automatically make you right. Actually, it makes you look like kind of a douche... Well stated. You can apply that to your reply. Actually, no, I couldn't at all. I made no argument attacking his standpoint, but rather was protecting a group that I thought was being falsely represented. I was not trying to prove him wrong, but rather trying to make both sides equally represented. By no means could you apply my quote to my own reply. You also make the natural fallacy of assuming that i TOOK a side in the "argument." No where did I unequally attempt to show that one side was correct/incorrect, but I rather stated a grouping a facts. That doesn't place me on either side of the fence. I was referring to your reply to the video I linked. I assumed you were replying to me because you quoted me. I wasn't even in an argument, I was replying to a post high up before the arguments started. You seem to be the only one making fallacies in this conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Rick Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Oh boy, I smell some neogaffers eating this thread alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost420 Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 I really hope they do...Religions the biggest load of bollocks that ever happened. If you think, some humans must be really weak minded and stupid to believe that theres a man sat on a cloud and a man 1000 years ago could walk on water. The bible said that, are you trying that the bible is a lie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixx Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 (edited) um, is it time to lock the thread? I can't see what any of this has to do with GTA:IV. If anything it seems like this thread was created by and for little minds searching for internet affirmation of their logically challenged and facile belief systems. Anyone who claims 'science' has disproven 'religion' is confused. Science cannot 'prove' religion anymore than religion can 'prove' science. If someone claims they do, then they are making a *philosophical*, not scientific, claim. Always watch for philosophy masquerading as science, kids, it happens a lot these days. To be sure, girls and boys, a lot of the 'arguments' I've read coming from the 'atheists' are not even real arguments. They are strawmen and ad hominem attacks commonly used in situations when someone has only a basic grasp (if that) of a topic, and refuses (or is incapable) to develop a more serious, reasoned statement. I'll provide some hints for the 'atheists': - Stop using YouTube clips as your source material - Ignore the irreligious claims of comedians and the religious claims of televangelists - Read up on your opponents' position via the opponents' own material. Ignore the standard, mainstream tripe (which doesn't make it into first year community college philosophy classes) That last point is very important. If you want to win an argument, you need to be able to engage a person using the very sources they draw their argument from. For example, if I were to argue with a Catholic about the rights of an individual, I would read up on Augustine and Thomas Aquinas, who were instrumental in developing the Catholic (and Western) political philosophy. ::postscript:: The plurality of religions does not automatically falsify all religions. To claim that it does confuses proof and persuasion. Don't understand? Think about it. I agree with you 100%. You are also making strong points, deyessorc. And MrKlorox, good point, never really thought of it that way. I'm the same way, spiritual without being religious. (Yes, that's an option, kids! ) Must everyone be so black and white (extreme)? You hate religion so you denounce all possibilities of ANYTHING aside from that which can be perceived through the five senses? Now you're just taking what authoritative figures have told you to think, doing the complete opposite, and thinking that's the correct way. Please read this article. It's not biased, and the writer doesn't expect you to change your beliefs at all. It's about being civil, and less of a dick. EDIT: In case you think I'm just RickRolling you, it's called "10 Things Christians and Atheists Can (And Must) Agree On" Edited April 14, 2008 by Ixx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKlorox Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 (edited) A very good read there, sir. Everybody should make an attempt to understand the other side of this (or any) argument. I am a firm believer in the "it's funny because it's not" style of humor; life sucks if one cannot find humor in absolutely anything presented to him/her. To those that couldn't get a chuckle out of the intentionally offensive nature of the video I linked: sucks to be you. EDIT: I happen to find it offensive both when people say there is no tangibility to the "god" phenomenon (pure atheism) as well as when people say that knowing said "god(s)" requires accepting a prescribed viewpoint (aka religion)... and equally funny. The "god" phenomenon is a chemical experience (like love, anger, frustration, pity, euphoria, or any other "feeling" or state of mind) that can be brought on in two ways: meditation (aka prayer) or aided by chemical ingestion (i.e. entheogens such as psilocybin). Terence McKenna provides the argument that "Manna" (from the bible) is in fact psychedelic mushrooms; I presume this is why cows became sacred to Hindus (if I lived thousands of years ago and had a spiritual experience from harvesting and eating items growing in the sh*t of an animal, I would think that animal was sacred also). Edited April 14, 2008 by MrKlorox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGmanSMALLdick Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Ok so being the militant athiest that I am , I would love to see some python esque attacks on mainstream religions. Im sure rockstar will have some mild jokes about religion but how far will they actually go?? I know people dont like mocking muslims anymore due to fear of reprisals but could rockstar maybe be the only people to get away with it???? this is a prove of how civilization is going down the sh*t hole one step a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggson Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 For us hardcore atheists only http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o&feature=related So the athiests are leik the guys who dont believe jack sh*t in jesus and all that? I actually feel bad for you f*cking morons, i dont believe in jesus nor satan or any bullsh*t like that. But the difference between me and you is that you "athiest" fags are insecure and have to call yourself something while i just get along being me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicemanstyle Posted April 14, 2008 Author Share Posted April 14, 2008 Ok so this post pissed a lot of people off. Moslty christians strangely. I wasnt attacking anyones religion I would just like to see it mocked and made fun of in GTA 4. I was hopiing to see some examples of what rockstar might do. Instead its turned into a bit of a war. Oh look a war over religion, how fresh and exciting. I would never have guessed. Anyway once again christians, if you dont like what i wrote then................................................................................................................................. Forgive Me HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSpecial Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 (edited) This thread needs to be exorcised, its like the ps3 vs 360 thing , it will never end and there can be no winner. religious views aside i would like to see some religious parody in gta4, after all parody is what the francise is built on and if we cant have a laugh at ourselves or our beliefs then its a sad state of affairs. Edited April 14, 2008 by RedSpecial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKlorox Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 But the difference between me and you is that you "athiest" fags are insecure and have to call yourself something while i just get along being me Kinda like you have to call others "fags" to feel good about yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicemanstyle Posted April 14, 2008 Author Share Posted April 14, 2008 religious views aside i would like to see some religious parody in gta4, after all parody is what the francise is built on and if we cant have a laugh at ourselves or our beliefs then its a sad state of affairs. Thankyou, I totally agree , and of course non-religious views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Engage Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 I really hope they do...Religions the biggest load of bollocks that ever happened. If you think, some humans must be really weak minded and stupid to believe that theres a man sat on a cloud and a man 1000 years ago could walk on water. This man speaks the truth. I like to believe the big bang theory. But a man who died and came back alive? bs... Religion is a tool churches use to scare people into thing if they do wrong they will burn for all eternity. You only live once... I say we all party and have massive orgies on an air plane! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark3boyz Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Christianity has been getting ripped on for a good long time throughout the series. Sure theres plenty to make fun of but it gets to be like shooting fish in a barrell after a while. As a jew I wouldnt mind a couple good jabs at us for a change. But what I really want to see is some serious good rips on the Muslim religion. Its bullsh*t how they get such a free ride just because they take their sh*t so seriously. Key word sh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicemanstyle Posted April 14, 2008 Author Share Posted April 14, 2008 Christianity has been getting ripped on for a good long time throughout the series. Sure theres plenty to make fun of but it gets to be like shooting fish in a barrell after a while. As a jew I wouldnt mind a couple good jabs at us for a change. But what I really want to see is some serious good rips on the Muslim religion. Its bullsh*t how they get such a free ride just because they take their sh*t so seriously. Key word sh*t. Thats really what the topic was meant to be about lol. I wanted to see more attacks on Muslims as people these days seem to be soooo scared of them in case they will get blown up. I think its bullsh*t i dont care for any of them but i think islam is getting away with it a little too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKlorox Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Christianity has been getting ripped on for a good long time throughout the series. Sure theres plenty to make fun of but it gets to be like shooting fish in a barrell after a while. As a jew I wouldnt mind a couple good jabs at us for a change. But what I really want to see is some serious good rips on the Muslim religion. Its bullsh*t how they get such a free ride just because they take their sh*t so seriously. Key word sh*t. I was not born Jewish, so please excuse me if I seem ignorant; but you seem to be one of the few (at least vocal) Jews that would not be offended horribly by what would be considered "anti-semitic" that a media outcry would ensue. Seeing as how it's NYC and there seems to be Jewish looking folks in the game and we might see the classic "greed" stereotype (especially with the jeweler with the yarmulke for one). Most of the "Holy Bible" is "Jewish" so a lot of the jokes are dual-applicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamefarter Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 As an american, I am thankful that there is a God, as it is by him who I get my individual right. I have not the government to thank for my freedoms, but God, who superceeds the authority of government. But, I supose all you athiests would look to government, the great oppressor for your rights. Fools. The reason I just gave you is reason enough to believe in God. Even if it's just to recognize ones individuality. Maybe that's why so many athiests want to live in a pod of socialism. Good grief, talk about illogical, and blind to history. Always have the answers, as long as we don't ask the "wrong" questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Engage Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Christianity has been getting ripped on for a good long time throughout the series. Sure theres plenty to make fun of but it gets to be like shooting fish in a barrell after a while. As a jew I wouldnt mind a couple good jabs at us for a change. But what I really want to see is some serious good rips on the Muslim religion. Its bullsh*t how they get such a free ride just because they take their sh*t so seriously. Key word sh*t. Thats really what the topic was meant to be about lol. I wanted to see more attacks on Muslims as people these days seem to be soooo scared of them in case they will get blown up. I think its bullsh*t i dont care for any of them but i think islam is getting away with it a little too much. f*ck islamic religions. Bunch off terroristic bastards if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicemanstyle Posted April 14, 2008 Author Share Posted April 14, 2008 Christianity has been getting ripped on for a good long time throughout the series. Sure theres plenty to make fun of but it gets to be like shooting fish in a barrell after a while. As a jew I wouldnt mind a couple good jabs at us for a change. But what I really want to see is some serious good rips on the Muslim religion. Its bullsh*t how they get such a free ride just because they take their sh*t so seriously. Key word sh*t. Thats really what the topic was meant to be about lol. I wanted to see more attacks on Muslims as people these days seem to be soooo scared of them in case they will get blown up. I think its bullsh*t i dont care for any of them but i think islam is getting away with it a little too much. f*ck islamic religions. Bunch off terroristic bastards if you ask me. Yeah just like the right-winged american christian groups. All terrorists. If you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKlorox Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 f*ck islamic religions. Bunch off terroristic bastards if you ask me. That is extremely racist, ignorant, and incorrect. There are radical nutbags from every sect imaginable ready to hurt others to support their cause. Have you ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition or the Holy Crusades? F*ck ignorant racists. Bunch of hypocritical assholes if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Engage Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 As an american, I am thankful that there is a God, as it is by him who I get my individual right. I have not the government to thank for my freedoms, but God, who superceeds the authority of government. But, I supose all you athiests would look to government, the great oppressor for your rights. Fools. The reason I just gave you is reason enough to believe in God. Even if it's just to recognize ones individuality. Maybe that's why so many athiests want to live in a pod of socialism. Good grief, talk about illogical, and blind to history. Always have the answers, as long as we don't ask the "wrong" questions. With out our government the world would be in complete Anarchy. Then you would soon find you have no god. Then let the government be our "god". Uncle Sam does a better job protecting society than you god does. Can you call your god and him send help if you need it? No. I call the "MAN" and they arrest the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicemanstyle Posted April 14, 2008 Author Share Posted April 14, 2008 f*ck islamic religions. Bunch off terroristic bastards if you ask me. That is extremely racist, ignorant, and incorrect. There are radical nutbags from every sect imaginable ready to hurt others to support their cause. Have you ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition or the Holy Crusades? F*ck ignorant racists. Bunch of hypocritical assholes if you ask me. Sorry but attacking islam calling them terrorists is not racist. If he were to say f*cking iraqi's or afghans then yeah racist, but f*cking muslims is not racist. Offensive but not racist. Its not hate im trying to discuss here, its jokes, and how there are too few religious jokes about these days, and thats ALL major religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark3boyz Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 The way I see it is a jokes a joke. I think most Jews just dont have a sense of humor because they have been persecuted for thousands of years. It took quite some time to get Israel back ever since those Roman bastards kicked us out and gave it to the Palistinians so many years ago. Plus there are a lot of people out there that hate Jews with a passion. That being said the United States is really the most Jew loving place on earth. Jews have held political office since shortly after the dawn of our country. Jews were involved in the Confederacy and the Union. It wasnt until after WWII that anti-semitism started making an appearance in the US and even then it was VERY over emphasized and not the problem it was made out to be. Hell theres more anti-semitism in Israel then there is in the US. I dont think most Jews get that, at least not them ones that actually live here, but I do. I love the US more than anything and for me this is my holy land and I have no interest in ever visiting Israel. We helped build this country together, not as jews and christians but as people. Thats what really matters. There are way more important things to unify people then religion. So when someone wants to poke some fun at us Jews I could care less. Im just happy to live in such a great country that allows for freedom of speech not only for the jokers but even for the anti-semites. Im also proud that our country recognizes our natural born right to own own guns and defend ourselves. I dont have to worry about genocide and anti-semitism in a country where I can defend myself. Its sad that most Jews, the ones that live here in the US I mean, dont understand that. Its not any ones responsibility to protect us from true anti-semitism but our own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SovietWarrior42 Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 The only religion I want them to make fun of is Scientology, which they have to a certain extent in San Andreas with the Epsilon Program. Hopefully they will throw in a nutcase actor promoting it called Bob Ride (Tom Cruise ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Engage Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 f*ck islamic religions. Bunch off terroristic bastards if you ask me. That is extremely racist, ignorant, and incorrect. There are radical nutbags from every sect imaginable ready to hurt others to support their cause. Have you ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition or the Holy Crusades? F*ck ignorant racists. Bunch of hypocritical assholes if you ask me. Hmm... racist? Guess so. Then again your "ten commandments" never said I coulnt be. OOO! I better be carefull. Dont want to burn in hell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slamman Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 (edited) Consider if Rockstar North made a game to appeal to all those using it in their war on media that currupts. They made a game called GTJ, Grand Theft Jesus where the concept is much like that Coke commercial where the character takes on crime as a Superhero game would, only in the much more realistic fashion of traditional GTAs. I know it's very far-fetched but wouldn't it fly in the face of all those pointing their fingers at GTA being the most offensive video game ever devised. The Devil's Bits and Bytes?? Edited April 14, 2008 by Slamman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark3boyz Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Lets be realistic. Jihad, or holy war, isnt a pillar of the Christian faith like it is in Islam. And last time I checked there werent violent protests everytime someone does something Christians find offensive. Lets not even get into the fact that Muslims consider those that kill innocent people in the name of Islam to still be Muslim. Christians would never consider someone that killed innocent people in the name of Christ to still be Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKlorox Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 (edited) Sorry but attacking islam calling them terrorists is not racist. If he were to say f*cking iraqi's or afghans then yeah racist, but f*cking muslims is not racist. Offensive but not racist. What would the word be if not "racist"? "Ethicist?" "Religionist?" None of those fit. How about Bigotry? That fits quite snugly. This reminds me of an argument when I declared that implying Americans were illiterate was racist and some smartass retorted with, "America isn't a race." Hmm... racist? Guess so. Then again your "ten commandments" never said I coulnt be."My" ten commandments? I suggest you better re-examine whom you're talking to. EDIT: Sorry if I seem to put down other's ideals. I have been told I have an abrasive personality. No worries: I simply hug with sandpaper arms. Edited April 14, 2008 by MrKlorox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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