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Timmons55

Is US education really as bad as it is made out?

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TheJonesy

America isn't as bad as you think. It's obviously the people. Almost anywhere you go, ignorance and arrogance is phenomenal. People are not stupid, just completely apathetic and selfish. We Americans are prime examples. We have a good system, but we really don't emphasize the "whole." Best example is our baseball's World Series, which only invovles our own teams.

 

We are all of the same as any other European, Asian, or whatever. We just being easiest to refer to and what can we do, most of us are diabetes-prone slobs anyway...

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Teqila
Now living in scotland i can say i know very little about the education in America so i am not going to jump to a conclusion and say it is terrible, but i would like to know.

 

Over the past few years eduction in the US has been made out as terribe, worse than countries such as Korea....But is it really this bad.

 

On youtube i find videos like these:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaN6Rx8X6_I&feature=related

 

but do all these things really show fact? is the education in america really this bad? i would like to know from you guys...

 

You do realize that those videos are meant to be humorous? They lead the people being questioned to answer incorrectly and only show you the ones that are wrong. I knew the answers to all the questions in the first video and I haven't finished school yet. In the second video, it is obvious that the statistics are false. It has been said many times that the majority of statistics are made up on the spot. You may have heard this before.

 

You have unwittingly spread propaganda. Every time someone does something like you just did, hating America becomes more popular.

 

 

 

Here, in the US, I see no overt hatred of any nation. Why hate us? What do you expect in return? Ignorance is everywhere. The worst kind of ignorance is willful. You remain ignorant so that you can continue hating without second thoughts.

i get the impression that you think i dislike america when in truth its the opposite which is why i was in disbelief. i started this topic because i spent some time in america as an assitant teacher of english for kids in high school and i have to say i was shocked at the number of them that didnt know the uk was a country within the continent of Europe confused.gif

 

i made this topic becuase i want to here what it is like from you guys....

It was meant for those who actualy believe this. I see you are not one of them.

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Saggy

Like everyone else has said, those videos don't really represent the education system, and for reasons that were already pointed out.

 

The thing everyone is forgetting, is that it's an extremely varied thing. The quality of education is usually determined by the economical prosperity of a region, like it or not. That is not to say that schools in wealthy areas or wealthy students are automatically going to be more educated than others, and by no means does it make them more intelligent. However, almost universally across the board, the quality of education is in direct correlation with the amount of money an area has.

 

America has some of the finest educational institutions in the world, but when it comes to public education, it often falls short due to language barriers, funding issues and teacher strikes, standardized testing, apathy from teachers and students alike, non standardized curriculum, and that's not really addressing the social issues of things. By social I don't mean the social aspect of students with other students, but social circumstances dictating whether or not students even wish to be educated or stay in the educational institutions.

 

The point is, America's public education system is broken and in need of reform, but the problem is that some people cannot admit to that, others can't agree how it needs to be reformed, and the people who are supposed to be teaching and learning are becoming completely disenfranchised by the same broken system, and constantly blaming one another. In truth the over-abundance of apathetic teachers and students in the public education is not the source of the problem, it's a symptom of an ailing system.

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Prince Drac
America isn't as bad as you think. It's obviously the people. Almost anywhere you go, ignorance and arrogance is phenomenal. People are not stupid, just completely apathetic and selfish. We Americans are prime examples. We have a good system, but we really don't emphasize the "whole."

I'd have to disagree. I can't speak for the entire U.S, but the NY educational system is in really bad shape. For one, social promotion was put into play in NY. If you fail and get left back one grade, you can only get left back once, and they will bump you up to the next grade the next year, even if you didn't improve at all.

 

One positive aspect of the NY educational system is the fact that we still have the regents state exams. I believe NY is the only state to still use the regent exams. However, one year, 80% of the NY high school population who took the Math A regent exam failed with a state average of about 50%. What the city did, instead of making everyone take the class again, gave everyone a bell curve so everyone who failed on the average was bumped to a 65 to pass.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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swolo yaggins

 

K-12 education in America is a piece of sh*t, and this is where the topic should die.

you have no authority over this thread, it is a discussion if it dies it dies, if it becomes considered inappropriate then it is locked......

 

and what makes you so sure that "K-12 education in America is a piece of sh*t"

 

did you exprience it or are you just jumping to conlusions...

 

veering more on topic i was going to move to the US but i dont want to if i end up having kids being poorly educated however i could have been seriously mislead - another reason why i created this thread...

I was in the American Public Education System up until 9th grade. I was enrolled in pre-K in Mexico and when I returned I was bumped up into first grade. I was in GT (gifted&talented) from 4th-9th and was in all the pre-AP classes I could be in from 6th-9th. I made A's and B's with LITTLE TO NO EFFORT.

 

I started 10th grade in Spain with this same mentality and I couldn't pass for the life of me, and I was going to the "easiest school in all of Barcelona". Consider this, in Spain you need a 50 to pass. Technically, you need a 45 because they bump it up to a 50! My 11th grade Philosophy teacher told us that Spain is the second-to-last country when it comes to IQ. A country of uncultured f*cks that literally spend half of the year on vacation! Even when I tried to get good grades, I could barely achieve a 70. I ended up dropping out because I couldn't pass.

 

I came back and got my GED in October. You can hardly say I prepared for the test as I skipped the classes and started taking practice tests, which I didn't need. Averaged a 96% on Math, Reading, Writing, Science, and Social Studies.

 

I was told that my community college entrance exam was going to take me 2-3 hours. I completed it in about 45 minutes and tested out of Reading. The guy conducting the tests was shocked when I turned in my test and couldn't believe that I was finished.

 

College is a completely different story.

 

The US public school system is a f*cking joke. Then again, what isn't?

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TommyVercetti.

Well I grew up with a Chicago education(big city=well funded school) and my freshman year of high school we moved to a small town in Michigan. And this is right on the heels of no child left behind. So an already under funded school got even less money from the state because our test scores weren't high enough. So our curriculum changed for us to just be able to pass the test given by the state. They even worked out a deal that if you got such and such score that you didnt have to come like the last month before graduation and you didn't have to take finals.

 

I don't care though, I'm in college. No harm no foul.

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SBizz6

I really think it depends on who you ask and where you ask. Most of the people I know are pretty intelligent. I mean, some people just don't give a sh*t and are just as pleased being a dumb ass. Whatever though, I don't think you can judge the whole of the U.S. education system on a few idiots who don't know where Canada is.

Point is, I know more educated, intelligent people than I do dumbasses

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silvermanblue

Hm the American education system is broken, the no child left behind act isn't helping ether.

But this is not a blanket generalization, there are good schools and bad schools, good teachers and bad teachers.

I think a big problem is that spending for schools has been dropping with the slumping economy.

 

I think the first thing we need to do is start pumping more money in to the education system.

This would help in two ways.

 

1. the money could be used to get newer and better learning materials.

 

2. The money could be used to lure more people to the teaching field, the job of teaching isn't easy.

Teachers eventually get so tired of trying to teach kids that have no interest in school whatsoever, they kinda just give up trying.

 

I don't know just my opinion.

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ILovePolarBears

I recently read that nationally, only 70% of US public high school students graduate. Accurate numbers are hard to come by as there is no uniform system for tallying graduates and dropouts, but in my opinion, even if that number is 20% off, that's still way too many people failing to graduate.

 

We're not as dumb as people like to joke, but our public education system definitely isn't doing so hot.

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swolo yaggins
I recently read that nationally, only 70% of US public high school students graduate. Accurate numbers are hard to come by as there is no uniform system for tallying graduates and dropouts, but in my opinion, even if that number is 20% off, that's still way too many people failing to graduate.

 

We're not as dumb as people like to joke, but our public education system definitely isn't doing so hot.

70% is passing! Though, it doesn't take much of a f*cking genius to pass in this country. Anybody that fails or drops out in the USA is because they don't care.

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Andrewbot

While I don't think judging an entire country's school system together is fair, California (home state) has slowly been going down the drain. Now, without sounding racist, the gap in test scores in my area (Santa Ana/Tustin) has increased over the past few years, as more and more "Latinos" are coming into the school systems without speaking english. When I was in elementary school, my school was almost all white, now it is predominately Mexican. The rich in my area have moved their kids to better, private schools in the area, with test grades rising.

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deathdealer

I beleive that our education system isn't terrible but it's heading down that way. here's an example:

 

my sister's school scored high on the fcat test (not the highest but still high enough to be one of the best schools in my district) and there were hardly any fights. two years later, a new principal comes and messes everything tup. her school is a D school(fcat score wise) and there are more fights. the principal blames it on the kids.

 

 

my point here is that the education system is producing these low life assholes who are concern about covering their own hide then the wellfare of the student and some treat them like f*cking criminals. hell, i was pulled out of the bathroom one time because they wanted to check my backpack. it's f*cking retarded.

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Timmons55
Like everyone else has said, those videos don't really represent the education system, and for reasons that were already pointed out.

 

The thing everyone is forgetting, is that it's an extremely varied thing. The quality of education is usually determined by the economical prosperity of a region, like it or not. That is not to say that schools in wealthy areas or wealthy students are automatically going to be more educated than others, and by no means does it make them more intelligent. However, almost universally across the board, the quality of education is in direct correlation with the amount of money an area has.

 

America has some of the finest educational institutions in the world, but when it comes to public education, it often falls short due to language barriers, funding issues and teacher strikes, standardized testing, apathy from teachers and students alike, non standardized curriculum, and that's not really addressing the social issues of things. By social I don't mean the social aspect of students with other students, but social circumstances dictating whether or not students even wish to be educated or stay in the educational institutions.

 

The point is, America's public education system is broken and in need of reform, but the problem is that some people cannot admit to that, others can't agree how it needs to be reformed, and the people who are supposed to be teaching and learning are becoming completely disenfranchised by the same broken system, and constantly blaming one another. In truth the over-abundance of apathetic teachers and students in the public education is not the source of the problem, it's a symptom of an ailing system.

i konw those videos don't show fact but they lead many people to believe them its my experiences and videos like these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw

 

and then it makes me wonder... i am glad however that you guys are telling me it isn't as bad as it is made out, it's rather reassuring smile.gif

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kevin2006rhs

Damn, I know the world had a bad view on the american schooling system and the "No Child Left Behind" is a black eye on top of all of that...but damn, its like the media loves to focus on the people, kids and adults, of America that look like total idiots. I have seen skits on shows where the host walks down the street asking questions and make people look like idiots when they answer with some mentally retarded answer. Its sad.

 

I went to a public school, the schooling is good. I wont boast saying its the best in the country or the world, but our teachers were not teaching backasswards subjects in a half-assed manner.

 

I have said this before in another topic. Blame the parents for todays generation of kids growing up and being total f*ckwits. Parents step in too much then talk up their kids abilities leaving their children at the end of the ships plank after they turn 18 an have to live life on their own for themselves. Kids who have had everything handed to them are going to and currently are falling on their face at a miserable rate. Either way, the well brought up kids are doing good.

 

Todays society is slumping, not the schooling.

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Ill.Will

If any one is familiar with CPS (Chicago Public Schools) it's f*cked up. 23 kids got killed this year alone. They were shooting up kids when I was in elementary school, all jokes aside. Some kid got shot in the buttocks when I was in 6th Grade, I attended Ellington back then. High School wasn't any better! The police patty wagons, would be parked outside just in case a fight broke out, and it still it didn't matter because hundreds of students would be marching up to a brawl, with sticks, and bats. The females fought with combination locks, and boxcutters, and sometime kids would even bring guns to school. There were many incidents where guns were found in the lockers, kids fighting teachers and staff, students getting beat up in the hallway, students selling drugs in the school! It was like the housing projects the way gangs and sh*t mobbed around. dontgetit.gif

Edited by Ill.Will

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Mister Pink
@ the dude about morals. If anything I would say Europe has less moral value than the U.S does, even though I don't support alot of the U.S actions. My justification would be because alot of Europe has gone intot he idea that what is moral is deteremined by society or a person, and don't believe in an absolute universal set of morals. I'm not even religious and I'm saying this. Also Nietzchean ideas are widespread even in America now. His writings were genius but they hold no truth.

 

As for the U.S school system, it is pretty bad in alot of areas. It mostly depends on how much the teachers are willing to teach. Kids don't rush home from school to watch cartoons anymore like they used to back when I was a kid. All kids want to do now is hang outside and act like Fitty Cent. My high school had a graduation rate of only 42%. However, high school dropouts don't automatically make them idiots. Many dropouts, who realized they f*cked up in high school try to get into some college, learn what they can, and eventually transfer to a better one.

 

The college education, I feel is top notch. I'm not talking about ivy league colleges either. If anything, I noticed that city and private colleges located in the city have better education than State Universities mostly because State Universities have campus for people to party 3-4 days out of the week.

Universal morals? Why? Not everyone is the same and as each society has begun and developed over time they will have their own morals and standards from since man has walked. Universally we a agree murder is wrong etc. But when superpowers like the U.S. 'think' that something should be changed or is morally wrong it doesn't give right to use excessive and sometimes (alot) illegal ways of changing things.

 

U.S. citizens may not be the brightest sparks and it can be argued that it's deliberate. Keep them ignorant and believing in supastition, religion, ghosts, miracles & Burger King and they will stay in a blissful ignorance to the realities or the real world especially in world politics. Although if it was deliberate well I'd say whoever came up with the plan and is pulling if off is a genius!

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Stefan.

I have never been to the United States, so my knowledge on the schooling system is very limited and is all from secondary sources. From what I've picked up, I think it's from the lack of logic, thinking and respect tought in schools. I currently go to a Private School in Australia, and even here, the kids show not that much respect to teachers. I think it's sad. I also know that you cannot teach logic, but atleast there should be a class in school called 'thinking', where professors come in and try and train the students to think about their futures, rather than about the tits of the leading cheerleader.

 

I don't like generalising people, so I don't think that all Americans are stupid. And don't forget, when it comes to those videos, they only pick the bad apples of the bunch.

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ryuclan
I have never been to the United States, so my knowledge on the schooling system is very limited and is all from secondary sources. From what I've picked up, I think it's from the lack of logic, thinking and respect tought in schools. I currently go to a Private School in Australia, and even here, the kids show not that much respect to teachers. I think it's sad. I also know that you cannot teach logic, but atleast there should be a class in school called 'thinking', where professors come in and try and train the students to think about their futures, rather than about the tits of the leading cheerleader.

 

I don't like generalising people, so I don't think that all Americans are stupid. And don't forget, when it comes to those videos, they only pick the bad apples of the bunch.

A lot of the schools are teaching Critical thinking, and although I don't think it's really possible to teach logic either (Logic is something you learn but cannot be taught) these classes do give you a taste of some of the things you may have to face later in life.

Me? I'm done with public schooling. It was good k-5 but when I got to Middle school it was a different thing. I went to Samuel Morse Middle School in Milwaukee and that is a "School for the Gifted and Talented." We never had to do work though because grades meant nothing in those years (6th - 8th) competencies were everything. High school I didn't do anything at all, not the school's fault but the grades I did get (mostly C's and D's) were'nt being recorded on my transcript. So I left and now I go to High School in a College. It's more mature and they care about you learning. I think the US needs to start caring more about the children and what they learn. Also isn't it kind of harsh to call a nation's children stupid? I mean what makes a person smart? Is it history? Math? Science? People seem to think that they know what smart is....but what is smart?

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SPMovies

I love how Europeans are basing the United States education based on 10 people.

 

Tell me this Europeans, whats Salt Lake City? Whats the lowest populated state? Wheres our capital?

 

If you still view it as the USA being dumb, I know 1 thing EVERY American knows. Every American knows we saved your asses in Ww2 and the cold war. Without our support in Europe you'd be typing Russian.

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SmellyJelly

 

I love how Europeans are basing the United States education based on 10 people.

 

Tell me this Europeans, whats Salt Lake City? Whats the lowest populated state? Wheres our capital?

 

If you still view it as the USA being dumb, I know 1 thing EVERY American knows. Every American knows we saved your asses in Ww2 and the cold war. Without our support in Europe you'd be typing Russian.

I believe you mean German. turn.gif

 

Whoops, I thought you listed WW1. How ironic.

Edited by SmellyJelly

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Svip

 

Tell me this Europeans, whats Salt Lake City? Whats the lowest populated state? Wheres our capital?

You tease us by asking easy questions?

 

Salt Lake City is a city in Utah next to the Salt Lake. I think the Winter Olympics were held there once.

 

The lowest populated state? I'll have to go with Wyoming.

 

And your capital is in District of Columbia. Which is technically not a state, and as Stephen Colbert says, thus not a member of the United States of America.

 

What else you got?

 

And be happy I didn't ask you any European related questions.

 

E.g. what is the largest populated city of Scandinavia? What are the two headquaters of the EU? Name the former members of the USSR located geographically in Europe.

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Jr. Young

Hmm...

 

I dropped out was taken out of school during my 6th grade year, put into state custody, and from about the age of 11 to 14 bounced around from shelter to shelter with no schooling whatsoever during that time. Around 14, the first batch of seemingly empathetic people, but in reality greedy morons, took me on. Got back into school at that time, but didn't try at all since I was somewhat depressed and not to mention partaking in copious amounts of several different questionable substances. Anyway, after a few months, they moved me from that situation back to the ol' shelters with a few more temporary foster homes here and there. Finally got some balance when the state dropped me at 18 and I was fortunate enough to be able to move in with an old friend.

 

So, I was a straight A student (well, maybe a B slipped by every now and then) every year, up until the age of 11. It was then cut-off for about 3 years, and after that complete drop I experienced a few-month-long bits of schooling every so often at different schools until 18. Although that didn't make much difference towards my education, I did notice the wide differences in attitudes, spirits etc. of the staff/students, and many of the schools greatly varied in quality of standards and materials available.

 

However, when I got 'out' and moved in with my best friend, I went for my GED. Studied for only about 2 weeks, maybe an hour a day on average (I was extremely busy at the time... 80+ hrs a week at my then job for example) ...and to my surprise I passed the test with relative ease. Then thought, what the hell, because there's no doubt a lot of employers etc. that tend to look down on people who only have GEDs, went ahead and took one of those mail-order High School Diploma tests. As you can imagine, I figured it was going to be a joke, and I was right ...aced it. Yet, I had my friend (who graduated High School) look over that second test and he said it was pretty much like, if not a bit harder, than what he took near the end.

 

The point is that I shouldn't have been able to do that, pass both of those tests like that, I mean. And I'm no genius or anything, nor do I have an amazing memory (more like Alzheimer's...)...

 

I know there's other factors and many, many other things to consider, like some people in here have touched on. Even though I disagree with much of this topic, I know those people who are intelligent enough will sift through the BS (isn't there always some siftin' to be done?) and find out what should be understood. The system does need drastic change in my opinion. Standards and practices are just too low.

 

PS: Ever since I got clear of that little mess, I've been studying my ass off and if all goes well I'll hopefully have a Bachelors/Masters Degree(s) sometime in the future, and make a *success* of myself after all. Can't hold me down. wink.gif

 

~~~~~

 

 

I love how Europeans are basing the United States education based on 10 people.

 

Tell me this Europeans, whats Salt Lake City? Whats the lowest populated state? Wheres our capital?

 

If you still view it as the USA being dumb, I know 1 thing EVERY American knows. Every American knows we saved your asses in Ww2 and the cold war. Without our support in Europe you'd be typing Russian.

 

I fear all you have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible, flaming, resolve... ph34r.gifYes, I know that Yamamoto didn't say that, but "Tora Tora Tora" is what seems to be the popular theme in here!

 

@Svip - icon14.gif

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nlitement

 

Every American knows we saved your asses in Ww2

user posted image

?

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LCSurvivor

 

I love how Europeans are basing the United States education based on 10 people.

 

Tell me this Europeans, whats Salt Lake City? Whats the lowest populated state? Wheres our capital?

 

If you still view it as the USA being dumb, I know 1 thing EVERY American knows. Every American knows we saved your asses in Ww2 and the cold war. Without our support in Europe you'd be typing Russian.

I love how we all just generalise here.

 

Europe is not one country, it's a continent and a group of countries, a 'club' if you will. You cannot speak about Europeans like they're all one and the same. Same goes for someone for the USA.

 

I personally don't think everybody from the USA is dumb, but I have definitely seen a lot of ignorance from some Americans, even on this board. I don't know if it's that large a problem, but if it's this heavily covered in your media, media oversees, and if your country is that low on the list of education, there must be something amiss.

 

Here's a source if you don't believe you're significantly below the OECD average. sarcasm.gif

 

WARNING: PDF.

http://www.pisa.oecd.org/dataoecd/15/13/39725224.pdf

 

 

EDIT: One more thing, you couldn't have saved our asses without help from Canada, the UK, Australia and Russia moto_whistle.gif Don't blindly state that you did it on your own just because that's what is told to you in movies and games...

 

EDIT2: Listen to Svip, he's a smart man.

Edited by LCSurvivor

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Shylock

Isn't asking trivia questions on the internet kind of pointless? I mean with google and all?

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Trund
Isn't asking trivia questions on the internet kind of pointless? I mean with google and all?

This is exactly what I thought after reading this Thread here.

Therefore I have a little game for those, who think they know much about the location of Cities in Europe:

 

http://www.lufthansa-usa.com/useugame2007/html/play.html

 

Enjoy cool.gif .

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Struff Bunstridge
Isn't asking trivia questions on the internet kind of pointless?  I mean with google and all?

This is exactly what I thought after reading this Thread here.

Therefore I have a little game for those, who think they know much about the location of Cities in Europe:

 

http://www.lufthansa-usa.com/useugame2007/html/play.html

 

Enjoy cool.gif .

That game's great icon14.gif

 

I scored 25397.

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nlitement
Isn't asking trivia questions on the internet kind of pointless?  I mean with google and all?

This is exactly what I thought after reading this Thread here.

Therefore I have a little game for those, who think they know much about the location of Cities in Europe:

 

http://www.lufthansa-usa.com/useugame2007/html/play.html

 

Enjoy cool.gif .

lol, cute.

 

25300.

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kid_tellex
If you still view it as the USA being dumb, I know 1 thing EVERY American knows. Every American knows we saved your asses in Ww2 and the cold war. Without our support in Europe you'd be typing Russian.

The current generation had no hand in the outcome of WW2, which has no relevance in the current topic. The U.S. government has committed countless imperialistic injustices overseas and on home soil in the past, and still continues to do so. (*cough*Japanese placed in interment camps*cough*Iraq War*cough*) Feel free to cite those as well. Enough of your pseudo-patriotic BS.

 

Education in my area has long been a broken system of countless dollars spent on standardized testing and athletics, run by a school board of inept soccer-moms who don't even need a resume to land the job. Many teachers don't even have enough textbooks to go around, but everyday county-standardized "Educate Kids" packets (containing some of the most retarded questions you'll ever read) are thrust under our noses and every year we're shepherded into the gym to take the FCAT (Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test) for three and a half hours over three days, the outcome of which is purely so the county can rank the students and schools in order of progress.

 

Thing is, the FCAT criteria is very basic and stiff, and teachers are required to adjust their curriculum accordingly, so English and creative writing classes suffer greatly. Creativity is discouraged and a stiff "power writing" structure is encouraged for all pieces written. I've got one great teacher though, whose taught me far more than all my others combined and inspired me to no end, whose been reamed countless times by the clueless and conservative administration for not having a minute by minute, straight-out-of-the-textbook lesson plan. He recently had to have our period inspected, so he gave us notes on T.S. Eliot's "The Wasteland" and we faked the whole thing. It was f*cking brilliant. That kept him his job, for now.

 

In a nutshell, the money isn't going toward the right things and most "educators" are clueless as to what's best for us students.

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Jr. Young

 

Isn't asking trivia questions on the internet kind of pointless?  I mean with google and all?

This is exactly what I thought after reading this Thread here.

Therefore I have a little game for those, who think they know much about the location of Cities in Europe:

 

http://www.lufthansa-usa.com/useugame2007/html/play.html

 

Enjoy cool.gif .

Thanks for that. icon14.gif

 

Right at 29400 for me.

 

Not bad considering I've been awake for the past 36+ hrs.... and I'm an American. tounge.gif

 

~~~

 

Edit: http://www.isarapix.org/pix81/1207747751.png

 

A bit lower than yesterday.^^^

 

....But anyhow, I agree with Shylock and the few others who realized that this is hardly a good way of determining 'education'..

Edited by Jr. Young

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