Civil rights for thugs

[Struff Bunstridge]

 

Goth clothes 'prompted killing' 

 

A 15-year-old boy kicked and stamped to death a woman because she was dressed as a Goth, a court heard.

The drunk teenager was among a gang of five who "savagely and mercilessly" attacked Sophie Lancaster, 20, and her boyfriend, Preston Crown Court heard.

Miss Lancaster was begging the gang to stop beating Robert Maltby, 21, when they turned on her in Stubbylee Park in Bacup, Lancashire, the jury was told.

 

The 15-year-old, who cannot be named because of his age, denies murder.

 

At an earlier hearing a 16-year-old boy, who was aged 15 at the time of the attack, admitted Miss Lancaster's murder and admitted attacking Mr Maltby.

The accused, and four other youths, two aged 17 and one 16, have already pleaded guilty to grievous bodily harm to Mr Maltby.

The court heard Miss Lancaster's facial injuries were so severe, paramedics did not know what sex she was.

Tests indicated she had been kicked and stamped to death, with the pattern of some footwear still on her head.

Miss Lancaster, a gap-year student, died two weeks after the attack.

It would appear that [they] were singled out, not for anything they had said or done, but because they dressed differently to the defendant and his friend

Prosecuting, Michael Shorrock QC told the court the young couple, from Bacup, were walking home from a friend's house when they "fell into conversation" with a group of teenagers.

The talk was friendly and good-natured, the court heard, but five of a group of youths "turned" on Mr Maltby.

The accused had started the violence, with a flying kick to the head of Mr Maltby, the jury was told.

The gang, "encouraging each other and laughing" punched, stamped and jumped on his head until he was unconscious, Mr Shorrock said.

As Miss Lancaster kneeled down, cradling her boyfriend's head on her lap and calling for help, the accused and the then 15-year-old youth who has already pleaded guilty to murder, turned on her.

The second boy kicked her in the head, with the accused joining in, the court heard.

Robert Maltby suffered head injuries in the attack

Paramedics found the couple lying side by side, covered in blood and unconscious.

Mr Shorrock said the gang had turned on the young couple simply because they were Goths or "moshers" and dressed differently to them.

Mr Maltby survived the attack in August last year but has not made a full recovery. He has no memory of the incident.

Mr Shorrock said the five, none of whom can be named, were "acting like a pack of wild animals".

"The attack was totally unprovoked.

"It would appear that Mr Maltby and Miss Lancaster were singled out, not for anything they had said or done, but because they dressed differently to the defendant and his friend," he said.

The case continues.

 

Apologies for the lengthy quote.

 

This young piece of scum leads a group of his friends into assaulting a man to the point where he is unable to remember the attack, and while his girlfriend knelt beside him crying for help, the boys proceed to kick her to death, stamping on her head. Her injuries prevented paramedics from determining her gender at the scene.

 

This attack appears to have been provoked by nothing more than a dislike for the clothing and appearance of the victims.

 

Please turn your attention to the paragraph I've highlighted in bold. Due to his age, the offender cannot be named and shamed for his unspeakable crime. I feel this is a travesty, and I further feel everyone should know who he is and what kind of person he is capable of being.

 

I was going to post this in various existing topics, but felt it was worthy of its own.

 

Are we too easy on violent young criminals?

 

 

 

[flitcroft101]

Yes, we should round up every chav and gas them.

[ryuclan]

 

Goth clothes 'prompted killing' 

 

A 15-year-old boy kicked and stamped to death a woman because she was dressed as a Goth, a court heard.

The drunk teenager was among a gang of five who "savagely and mercilessly" attacked Sophie Lancaster, 20, and her boyfriend, Preston Crown Court heard.

Miss Lancaster was begging the gang to stop beating Robert Maltby, 21, when they turned on her in Stubbylee Park in Bacup, Lancashire, the jury was told.

 

The 15-year-old, who cannot be named because of his age, denies murder.

 

At an earlier hearing a 16-year-old boy, who was aged 15 at the time of the attack, admitted Miss Lancaster's murder and admitted attacking Mr Maltby.

The accused, and four other youths, two aged 17 and one 16, have already pleaded guilty to grievous bodily harm to Mr Maltby.

The court heard Miss Lancaster's facial injuries were so severe, paramedics did not know what sex she was.

Tests indicated she had been kicked and stamped to death, with the pattern of some footwear still on her head.

Miss Lancaster, a gap-year student, died two weeks after the attack.

It would appear that [they] were singled out, not for anything they had said or done, but because they dressed differently to the defendant and his friend

Prosecuting, Michael Shorrock QC told the court the young couple, from Bacup, were walking home from a friend's house when they "fell into conversation" with a group of teenagers.

The talk was friendly and good-natured, the court heard, but five of a group of youths "turned" on Mr Maltby.

The accused had started the violence, with a flying kick to the head of Mr Maltby, the jury was told.

The gang, "encouraging each other and laughing" punched, stamped and jumped on his head until he was unconscious, Mr Shorrock said.

As Miss Lancaster kneeled down, cradling her boyfriend's head on her lap and calling for help, the accused and the then 15-year-old youth who has already pleaded guilty to murder, turned on her.

The second boy kicked her in the head, with the accused joining in, the court heard.

Robert Maltby suffered head injuries in the attack

Paramedics found the couple lying side by side, covered in blood and unconscious.

Mr Shorrock said the gang had turned on the young couple simply because they were Goths or "moshers" and dressed differently to them.

Mr Maltby survived the attack in August last year but has not made a full recovery. He has no memory of the incident.

Mr Shorrock said the five, none of whom can be named, were "acting like a pack of wild animals".

"The attack was totally unprovoked.

"It would appear that Mr Maltby and Miss Lancaster were singled out, not for anything they had said or done, but because they dressed differently to the defendant and his friend," he said.

The case continues.

 

Apologies for the lengthy quote.

 

This young piece of scum leads a group of his friends into assaulting a man to the point where he is unable to remember the attack, and while his girlfriend knelt beside him crying for help, the boys proceed to kick her to death, stamping on her head. Her injuries prevented paramedics from determining her gender at the scene.

 

This attack appears to have been provoked by nothing more than a dislike for the clothing and appearance of the victims.

 

Please turn your attention to the paragraph I've highlighted in bold. Due to his age, the offender cannot be named and shamed for his unspeakable crime. I feel this is a travesty, and I further feel everyone should know who he is and what kind of person he is capable of being.

 

I was going to post this in various existing topics, but felt it was worthy of its own.

 

Are we too easy on violent young criminals?

Why do we need to know their names....What we need to know is what became of these children. I, personally, don't care about what their names are. Also, they don't give names because they are minors, and if they are found not guilty, their reputation would be f*cked anyway....I'm not talking about these guys, they are guilty, but others who may not be guilty.

[Typhus]

If you release the name not only the criminal suffers but also the family. But this should be even more of an incentive not to commit these vile acts. But it's not. We have to deal with the fact that a generation of kids have went wrong. They are obsessed with African American gangster culture. Or rather a movie version of gangster culutre. They have turned into savages. Why else would they kill for the clothes you wear? Or start fires and then attack the firemen?

Our nation is getting a bad image, people see this and perhaps mistake us for nothing but bloodthirsty drunks and drug addicts. We can't have that happening.

An emergency reintroduction of the death penalty could be implemented. At least until they get the message that they need to smarten up. Any change to our law should only be used until order has been established once more.

[ryuclan]

 

If you release the name not only the criminal suffers but also the family. But this should be even more of an incentive not to commit these vile acts. But it's not. We have to deal with the fact that a generation of kids have went wrong. They are obsessed with African American gangster culture. Or rather a movie version of gangster culutre. They have turned into savages. Why else would they kill for the clothes you wear? Or start fires and then attack the firemen?

Our nation is getting a bad image, people see this and perhaps mistake us for nothing but bloodthirsty drunks and drug addicts. We can't have that happening.

An emergency reintroduction of the death penalty could be implemented. At least until they get the message that they need to smarten up. Any change to our law should only be used until order has been established once more.

I knew this topic would come to this. The black gangster culture is nothing compared to the acts of some other gangsters. I don't know any black men who would hit a woman, let alone kick them in the face. Actually I know dudes who would kick a guys ass he doesn't even know because he saw him hit a woman. Why else would they beat them up for the way they dress? There are a lot of reasons. As you can probably tell, there are a LOT of people (mainly online) who hate Emos and goths for no reason. Don't blame the gangter culture of african americans for this. This is the fault of those dumb ass kids. First the one that kicked the guy, then the idiot kids who followed.

 

 

[Struff Bunstridge]

Unfortunately Typhus' response seems rather typical; little more than a soapbox rant without concentrating too much on the topic at hand.

 

There's nothing in my quote, nor in any media reports, to suggest any connection to gangster culture or any movie-based influence at all. It's nothing that glamorous. It's simply a case of young boys being of the mentality that they can perform acts like this on other human beings. I don't think a discussion about the death penalty is really relevant.

[Mand'alor]

Yes, we should round up every chav and gas them.

Scangers/Scumbags (chavs in Ireland) are without a doubt the worst breed of people this country has ever seen as are the chavs in England who I have had the misfortune of bumping into a few times while on holiday in London.

 

Little bastard should thrown into a nice sh*tty prison where he will be acquainted with all the resident big boys.

 

Rounding them up and gassing all of them you say? I agree, something along the lines and scale of the Holocaust is needed.

 

 

[The Unvirginiser]

Thats awful

I don't know how many of you are in love with a girl... but having her taken in such a brutal way is one of my biggest fears in the world

[Typhus]

 

Unfortunately Typhus' response seems rather typical; little more than a soapbox rant without concentrating too much on the topic at hand.

 

There's nothing in my quote, nor in any media reports, to suggest any connection to gangster culture or any movie-based influence at all. It's nothing that glamorous. It's simply a case of young boys being of the mentality that they can perform acts like this on other human beings. I don't think a discussion about the death penalty is really relevant.

But it would probably stop them.

And yes, there is a connection to gangster culture as they keep listening to rap music and act like black gangsters despite many of them being borderline racists. I think what I said was quite relevant actually.

The key to remember is that these kids only think they're gangsters. They see the movies, listen to the music and even talk the talk but it's all a facade. The truth is that they have no real identity. They feel that their pack antics define them. It's sad really, if they just applied themselved they could really get somewhere. But instead they take the easy road.

[ryuclan]

 

Thats awful

I don't know how many of you are in love with a girl... but having her taken in such a brutal way is one of my biggest fears in the world

Especially if it was for me. I would rather she run away.

 

 

@Typhus: Black gangsters don't kick women in the face. They don't hit women. They beat people's asses who hit women. I just think these assholes are just idiots who in the heat of the moment did some stupid ass sh*t to someone who didn't deserve it. Nobody deserves this, and I hope they go to jail for a long time for this sh*t. The death penalty isn't good enough.

Edited March 13, 2008 by ryuclan

[Moonshield]

Unfortunately Typhus' response seems rather typical; little more than a soapbox rant without concentrating too much on the topic at hand.

 

There's nothing in my quote, nor in any media reports, to suggest any connection to gangster culture or any movie-based influence at all. It's nothing that glamorous. It's simply a case of young boys being of the mentality that they can perform acts like this on other human beings. I don't think a discussion about the death penalty is really relevant.

Well, his first sentence was at least on-topic, and a good point at that.

 

If you release the name not only the criminal suffers but also the family.

That's definitely true. What happens when this kid's name is released, he and subsequently his family become targets - who is to stop some vengeful friends from finding out where this kid lives and doing the same thing to him (which I wouldn't mind) and his family, who are as innocent as that couple? Maybe I'm assuming too much into the situation, but that just doesn't seem right.

 

Here in the US, the media has the same rule - you don't release a minor's name unless he's died, as he has no mortal rights anymore, anyway.

[flitcroft101]

"black gangsters"

 

made me laugh, stop acting like everybody has the same code.

[ryuclan]

"black gangsters"

 

made me laugh, stop acting like everybody has the same code.

Ok lemme reiterate....The majority of black "thugs" in america would not hit a woman. It's not a code.

[Struff Bunstridge]

But it would probably stop them.

And yes, there is a connection to gangster culture as they keep listening to rap music and act like black gangsters despite many of them being borderline racists. I think what I said was quite relevant actually.

The key to remember is that these kids only think they're gangsters. They see the movies, listen to the music and even talk the talk but it's all a facade. The truth is that they have no real identity. They feel that their pack antics define them. It's sad really, if they just applied themselved they could really get somewhere. But instead they take the easy road.

But Typhus, you're still assuming the kids in question listen to rap music, watch Boyz n Da Hood on repeat and drive lowriders while subscribing to the BNP's newsletter. You've no evdience that's the case.

 

My point is, the problem is not the music or films or clothes these kids surround themselves with. Don't flatter them by suggesting they can't help it, they're just impressionable. They made a conscious decision to take that girl's life, and did so by methodically kicking her head until she died. There's no question in my mind that these scum should be prosecuted as adults to the full extent of the law, and should not be granted anonymity just because they're under 18.

[Typhus]

 

@Typhus: Black gangsters don't kick women in the face. They don't hit women. They beat people's asses who hit women.

That's my point though, it's all a smokescreen. They love violence and murder and theft and rape and they want to attach certain values to it. They would latch on to almost anything if it fit their whole persona. My point is that I am not the one stereotyping, they are. Because they have these influences and use them to justify their own actions. But it's all hollow, any outside influence is irrelevant. They do these things because they are bad people and they enjoy it. That's what it is, simple sadism and perhaps an abstract Anarchist mindset.

Do you see? The influences I speak of are deliberately sweeping, because that's how they view things, in black and white. I've dealt with them before, got attacked by them one or twice. I know what I'm talking about...sometimes.

But their main staples are vandalism and violence. Not like a youth subculture, more like the Goths or the Huns.

Edited March 13, 2008 by Typhus

[SWEETSAPRIK]

 

@Typhus: Black gangsters don't kick women in the face. They don't hit women.

I'm sorry, but that is just as silly a generalization as it is to say that they do all hit women. The statement is just false. That said, I have no idea why the subject of "black gangsters" was brought up at all.

 

on-topic

The scum should at the very least be locked away for the rest of their lives. I know everyone likes to say crap like "but they're young, they shouldn't have to pay for this mistake for the rest of their lives", I disagree. If you believe that there is anything one should have to pay for as long as they live, this definitely would fall into that category, and I seriously doubt anyone capable of something like this will ever rehabilitated. Society does tend to be (IMO) too easy on people who commit horrible acts, just because they're young. For that matter some people seem to look for excuses and "explanations" for things like this, completely discounting even the possibility that maybe the people involved are just complete scum, devoid of a single redeeming quality.

 

That said, I have no problem with them keeping the name of an underage convict secret, and I think that while someone underage is just a defendant, and hasn't been found guilty, it's only appropriate.

 

I think of examples like that Duke lacrosse team rape case. The public vilified the people accused, the school expelled the accused then fired the coach and shut down the whole lacrosse team (even those in no way implicated), only later was it discovered that none of them had actually committed the crimes they were accused of. That doesn't change the fact that their lives were practically ruined, and that some people will never remember the final outcome, only the initial accusations.

 

While having the name of a guilty person be public knowledge seems only fitting, the fact that innocent people are both accused and sometimes convicted is something that shouldn't be ignored either.

 

[ryuclan]

@Typhus: Black gangsters don't kick women in the face. They don't hit women.

I'm sorry, but that is just as silly a generalization as it is to say that they do all hit women. The statement is just false. That said, I have no idea why the subject of "black gangsters" was brought up at all.

 

Well I'm sorry if you misunderstood me, but I was really talking about those type of people that I know. Of course I can't speak for all people that have been grouped into that category but I know that for the majority this rings true.

 

I think of examples like that Duke lacrosse team rape case. The public vilified the people accused, the school expelled the accused then fired the coach and shut down the whole lacrosse team (even those in no way implicated), only later was it discovered that none of them had actually committed the crimes they were accused of. That doesn't change the fact that their lives were practically ruined, and that some people will never remember the final outcome, only the initial accusations.

Thats exactly what I was trying to say. Accusations do not make you a criminal, but posting the names of the accused make you a criminal in a lot of people's eyes.

[illspirit]

Well, it could be worse. They could have given the dead goth girl a postmortem ASBO for "assaulting" the precious snowflakes' boots with her face. Kinda like they did to that grandmother a few years ago when some chavs pushed her down, robbed her, and broke her arm.

 

And is it just me, or is a genocidal police state Typhus' solution for pretty much everything posted in genchat?

[Taste Of Chaos]

Yes, we should round up every chav and gas them.

This wrapped up my thoughts about 'thugs' really well, but chavs in general? I'm not so sure, I'm just a 'regular joe' I suppose and I have both goth and chav friends (some of which get along alright.) and chavs can be really cool people, like I said I am friends with quite a few and even though they dress like retards they're still really good mates and only a few have ever gotten into a fight.

 

But scum like this who do sh*t like this with a 'Just cause' are a waist of blood, guts and sperm IMO.

[The Unvirginiser]

They were probaly all drunk and tried taking the piss out of him or did it because they were bored.

I'm gonna admit ive had fights with people or joined in gang fights on one person... but theyve always had a reason (Once the guy attacked my mate with his friends so we did it back)... however hitting a woman trying to defend him is horrible... and kids need to realise that fighting isnt like a film... stamping on someone's head is likely to cause death.

[Picolini]

15 is definitely old enough to know what they were doing. I believe in an eye for an eye... they are quite young, but this at least deserves a life sentence, if not the dealth penalty. Harsh? Maybe, but until we start charging people seriously and stop being all sympathetic for (the wrong) people, sh*t like this will happen. Back when they used to cut peoples hands off for stealing not many people stole.

 

 

Ok lemme reiterate....The majority of black "thugs" in america would not hit a woman. It's not a code.

 

I'd still say that's wrong. Statistics would most likely prove the opposite, of course no one will fill out a survey that says "Do you consider your self a black thug/gangster" and "do/would you hit woman?"

Chances are, near, or more than the majority would check yes though.

But, I can't say that for sure, just my opinion.

Edited March 13, 2008 by Picolini

[chris cambo]

Yes, we should round up every chav and gas them.

Singling out chavs is also unfair, i know plenty of goths who provoke fights with chavs all the time in liverpool.

[flitcroft101]

Yes, we should round up every chav and gas them.

Singling out chavs is also unfair, i know plenty of goths who provoke fights with chavs all the time in liverpool.

serious post

[ryuclan]

Ok lemme reiterate....The majority of black "thugs" in america would not hit a woman. It's not a code.

 

I'd still say that's wrong. Statistics would most likely prove the opposite, of course no one will fill out a survey that says "Do you consider your self a black thug/gangster" and "do/would you hit woman?"

Chances are, near, or more than the majority would check yes though.

But, I can't say that for sure, just my opinion.

Ok never mind then...I'm, going to say it like THIS: Every nigga I know (I say nigga as in a black man with thug mentality) wouldn't hit a female even if she punched him in the face. The most they would do is just grab them. Anyway it doesn't matter, there is no way to prove it, and personally I don't know why I brought it up anyway.

 

 

Other news, I think death penalty is too easy. Give em at least 25 in maximum security. Where are the hard criminals are. I'm sure they will straighten those boys out after they figure out what they are in for.

[flitcroft101]

Well I just happen to know a few guys from Compton Ca who play golf with females, so there.

 

Um lets drop that subject anyway.

[Girish]

 

Are we too easy on violent young criminals?

Indeed we are.

 

Kids grow up pretty fast these days. They are exposed to violence from an early age and many of these youngsters think it's cool without realising the consequences of committing a crime.

More importantly, they are also aware of the fact that since they are underage, they'll be let off easily; at the most, they'll be sent to a child rehab centre or made to do community service. That isn't much, is it?

 

We have to be a little harsher on teens in matters like these. The law must be stringent and teens should be treated like adults and punished accordingly. It may sound too harsh, but I ain't suggesting capital punishment.

[Typhus]

 

And is it just me, or is a genocidal police state Typhus' solution for pretty much everything posted in genchat?

I'm afraid it's not just you. That seems to be my answer to a lot of lifes little problems. But, you know, delusional people always have the unfortunate habbit of thinking that they know best. In this case it's far from the truth.

But controlled genocide would work, you make them fear you and you gain their respect. Once gained it is never lost. The law is like a lion with no teeth, it has no bite left. It has been rendered impotent by confused concepts of human rights. Confused because they paint the criminal as the victim rather than giving the agrieved party the justice they desire. But how do we judge what is just and what is simple vengeance? The law must not be zealous in their punishments, the law must be faceless, detached, incorruptible. But now it trues to play to expected levels of compassion and people are growig tired of it. We deserve better, any civilised country deserves better. And I think that a fair legal system is not too much to ask for

Edited March 13, 2008 by Typhus

[ryuclan]

And is it just me, or is a genocidal police state Typhus' solution for pretty much everything posted in genchat?

I'm afraid it's not just you. That seems to be my answer to a lot of lifes little problems. But, you know, delusional people always have the unfortunate habbit of think that they know best. In this case it's far from the truth.

But controlled genocide would work, you make them fear you and you gain their respect. Once gained it is never lost. The law is like a lion with no teeth, it has no bite left. it has been rendered impotent by confused concepts of human rights. Confused because they paint the criminal as the victim rather than giving the agrieved party the justice they desire. But how do we judge what is just and what is simple vengeance? The law must not be zealous in their punishments, the law must be faceless, detached, incorruptible. But now it trues to play to expected levels of compassion and people are growig tired of it. We deserve better, any civilised country deserves better. And I think that a fair legal system is not too much to ask for

Yeh I totally agree (not about the controlled genocide though...lol) but court systems here are starting to lose their power. Everyday people are learning more about the law and finding tiny loopholes that destroy cases and get even some of the most guilty defendants off the hook. I hope this isn't blamed on video games or music though. That may soften the punishment, or even pleading insanity.

[Creed Bratton]

That is just horrible. I hope they die very slowly and painfully even if they are 15 or 16 years old.

[Picolini]

 

Ok lemme reiterate....The majority of black "thugs" in america would not hit a woman. It's not a code.

 

I'd still say that's wrong. Statistics would most likely prove the opposite, of course no one will fill out a survey that says "Do you consider your self a black thug/gangster" and "do/would you hit woman?"

Chances are, near, or more than the majority would check yes though.

But, I can't say that for sure, just my opinion.

Ok never mind then...I'm, going to say it like THIS: Every nigga I know (I say nigga as in a black man with thug mentality) wouldn't hit a female even if she punched him in the face. The most they would do is just grab them. Anyway it doesn't matter, there is no way to prove it, and personally I don't know why I brought it up anyway.

 

 

Other news, I think death penalty is too easy. Give em at least 25 in maximum security. Where are the hard criminals are. I'm sure they will straighten those boys out after they figure out what they are in for.

I assume you brought it up because you feel most black gangsters wouldn't hit a woman, and in this case (don't know the race, but he's a "gangster") one did, and killed her at that. I understand where you're coming from, but I wouldn't say that gangster's have majority moral on not hitting women.

 

As for the death penalty being too easy, despite all the ass raping and possible stabbings they could get in their 25+ years in jail, they still get to enjoy life to some extent, which this young lady does not. And not only that, they severely beat her boyfriend, who now lost his girlfriend. I say take away from them what they took away from her and her friends and relatives.

 

@ the whole "kill all the chavs" thing, that's just basically promoting what these kids did. Hate and hurt (and kill) people that are different. Nice logic there...