Official F1 Topic

[Eutyphro]

Ferrari were a bunch of incompetent maniacs today. Both ferrari drivers cutting off and squeezing Max at the same time. It really ruined the race.

[reform]

Ferrari were a bunch of incompetent maniacs today. Both ferrari drivers cutting off and squeezing Max at the same time. It really ruined the race.

It did ruin it, but I don't blame Kimi at all. He got a great start shooting up the inside, and it was just Seb who recklessly.squeezed Max into Kimi.

 

Sucks 'cause I love watching Max drive, he was propper f*cked over. And beyond that, now the championship is way less close

Edited September 17, 2017 by reform

[Crokey]

That was all on Vettal for me, as he cut inside far too early into the corner, Verstappen and Raikonen were not at fault at all. Vettal had at least another 4/5 car lengths that he could have gone before pulling in and he would have been well clear of Verstappen. Shame that it took out Alonso as well as the Honda is starting to show small glimmers (only small mind you) of getting there, and Alonso might have got some points out of the race.

 

Unless Aston Martin step in I think that by the time Honda move over to Toro Roso, as they appear to be doing, that they may actually have a decent unit. Although even if Aston Martin do step in, they wont be as good as what Honda is right now, as Honda have found to their cost, that since their last jaunt in F1, the engines, or rather power units, have moved on quite a bit.

[Nico]

Unless Aston Martin step in I think that by the time Honda move over to Toro Roso, as they appear to be doing, that they may actually have a decent unit. Although even if Aston Martin do step in, they wont be as good as what Honda is right now, as Honda have found to their cost, that since their last jaunt in F1, the engines, or rather power units, have moved on quite a bit.

I just checked the recent news, AM signed to be the team's main sponsor and they will rename it to "Aston Martin Red Bull" next year, keeping the renamed Renault engines for 2018 only. They claim their compromise is serious, but the only way I think AM could actually make their own hybrid engines without waiting to the new regulations of 2021 is partnering with an independent engine specialist like Ilmor or Cosworth.

 

Would like to see what happens with Toro Rosso as well, rumors say they could sell the team to Honda. On the main team they have two big established drivers with contracts for the upcoming years now, so the purpose of the "school team" has been rendered kinda useless.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Nico

[dingodile_r89]

RIP 2017 title battle. Was good while it lasted.

[Redketman]

Both Hamilton and Vettel will have four titles each after this season. If it's between Mercedes and Ferrari next season too there might be a battle for a fifth title for both guys. But the most interesting scenario would be if Red Bull could take a step or two forward in pace. Don't think any other team will have a title shot.

[HeavyDuke]

Finally found back my old hdd with all F1 seasons, full races where they started making footage all the way up to 2004, more then 500gb worth of footage i believe. Time to watch back some really good races.

[reform]

Poor Max

[Eutyphro]

Poor Max

That was bullsh*t.

[Crokey]

Christian Horner was seething about it in his post race interview with Channel 4, citing a certain steward (who wasn't named), as being at fault for it, and this same steward was has also been responsible for lots of other bad decisions throughout the years, which Coulthard and Webber have fallen foul of (they present coverage on Channel 4 in the UK). Webber even swore live on air about how bad it was (he'll be alright though it was way after 9:00pm, so he could get away with it).

 

Good points were raised that most other drivers did the same thing throughout the race without sanction, and Max also called the steward a idiot. He may well get a hit for that, but I doubt he'd care since it's obvious his teams got his back.

 

I get the feeling we've not heard the last of this one.

[reform]

IMO the decision was "right", just inconsistant. But then, none of the other instances were so high-profile or immediately significant. Doesn't really justify inconsistancy, but they couldn't not make that call in that instance. I'm still so gutted for Max though. he still deserved every bit of that P3

[Eutyphro]

and Max also called the steward a idiot

Max called the steward a mongoloid hahaha.. in Dutch.

[Crokey]

 

and Max also called the steward a idiot

Max called the steward a mongoloid hahaha.. in Dutch.

 

Ermm.... whoops there Maxy boy. I think a fine's on it's way.

[Kiffster]

It was a fair and the correct decision to penalize Verstappen. You can't overtake by leaving the track, even if it's done to avoid collision. Everyone gets penalized for that in any race if they don't concede the position back to the other driver. Verstappen was the only one penalized in this race because he was the only one who gained a position like that.

 

Or was he?

 

Haha I didn't watch the race, it was too late. Only saw the replay on the news. But it was a fair penalty imo. It was the final corner so there was no time to hand position back to Kimi, so he got a time penalty instead. Don't know why everyone thinks it was too harsh. They were right for penalizing him and rules are rules.

 

Also lol at Max for saying they are ruining the sport and then he goes on to say everyone should boycott next year's race

Edited October 23, 2017 by Kiffster

[HeavyDuke]

Also lol at Max for saying they are ruining the sport and then he goes on to say everyone should boycott next year's race

Ruining the sport? I say its pretty much being raped sideways and from above and beyond. Its becoming more and more sh*tty to watch, like Nascar became this bore fest after the end of the 80's up to now.

[Eutyphro]

It was a fair and the correct decision to penalize Verstappen.

Almost everyone remotely credible thinks it was a sh*t decision.

 

 

 

But I try to see the positive about it, that now the stewards will watch out to further the reputation of having an anti Verstappen bias. This might help Max in the upcoming season, where he might have a shot at the championship. He has a very good car right now, and if his car in the next season is as competitive as his car is right now, he might have a serious shot.

[Kiffster]

Doesn't really matter who thinks it was a sh*t decision. It was the right one. The rule that drivers cannot overtake by going off track has always been there. Every driver who has ever done that and not give back the position he illegally gained has been penalized in the past. Next driver to go off track and gain a position like that will also receive a penalty.

[Eutyphro]

Doesn't really matter who thinks it was a sh*t decision.

It does. Webber, Rosberg and Lauda are more credible and have more authority on the subject than anonymous forum posters.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Eutyphro

[Kiffster]

If you and they think it's totally acceptable for drivers to leave the track to overtake then so be it, but the fact remains that it's an illegal move. Always has been, always will be. And I 100% agree.

If it was the other way around with Kimi doing the move I can guarantee you Verstappen would have protested.

[Eutyphro]

It's completely senseless arbitrary policing that ruins the spectacle of the race. If you don't want Max to drive there, don't lay tarmac there. And don't just enforce the rule on Max, but also the legion of other drivers who also crossed the line. Max had to move to make sure he wouldn't crash into Kimi. Stewards should generally only interfere if something dangerous happens. Lauda says that that was what was agreed upon.

Kimi would never make such a move, because he is not as daring and as skilled as Max. I can't remember seeing Kimi do an overtake as spectacular as the ones Max does.

[Kiffster]

It should be common sense to any racing driver that you only race on the actual racing track, not on the tarmac/gravel/grass beyond the white line/curb. Should be common sense that you do not overtake by leaving the track.

 

Whether there's tarmac there or grass makes absolutely zero difference, you don't overtake off-track. Think about the infamous chicane at the harbour in Monaco for example. Tarmac but drivers get instantly penalized if they gain an advantage by driving over it. Drivers always go around the chicane because of that. It's exactly the same for this corner at the US gp.

 

And I've said it before, the reason why Max was punished and not anyone else was because he (to my knowledge) was the only one who gained a position by doing that. And not just any position, but a podium position. Would have been extremely unfair towards Kimi if stewards looked the other way and if Max was allowed all the podium glory for an illegal overtake.

 

Also I agree Kimi won't do such a move because he knows the rules. He knows bloody well that you don't overtake by completely leaving the track.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Kiffster

[Eutyphro]

Also I agree Kimi won't do such a move because he knows the rules. He knows bloody well that you don't overtake by completely leaving the track.

 

His reaction on the team radio indicates he thought he had legitimately lost his position though. So Kimi seemed to have thought it was according to the rules.

[Crokey]

I get that rules are rules, and that we don't have to agree with them, but from watching the replays, it was extremely marginal and was mainly due to preventing a contact and a possible crash with Kimi. I do think that it was very harsh, and in the grand scheme of things it would make very little difference to the championship or the constructors.

[Kiffster]

Marginal yes but he still left the track with all 4 wheels. If this happened on lap 10 or in other race he would have been forced to give the place back to Kimi or receive some sort of penalty, even if he did it to prevent contact.

 

If he got away with it then why not allow any other driver in the future to make daring overtakes by leaving the track entirely. That's not racing and should never be allowed.

 

It's just a rule that has always been very consistently and fairly enforced. Call me an asshole lol but I think that Max very much deserved the penalty.

[Eutyphro]

It's just a rule that has always been very consistently and fairly enforced.

haha are you joking?

[Kiffster]

To be clear I was specifically talking about drivers gaining places when they're not on track. From what I've seen over the last 25 odd years of watching f1 those drivers have always been penalized if they stayed ahead, so no not joking.

[Eutyphro]

You should look at the start of the race:

Significantly Vettel, and other drivers, leave the track after turn one and gain an advantage. Vettel completes his overtake that way. It's the late breaking that makes him go off track that facilitates the move. The idea that this rule is 'consistently enforced' is thus laughable.

[Kiffster]

Can't watch vid on this phone right now, but were all 4 of Vettel's wheels over white line at same time when he overtook? Because from what I've seen/heard only Max did that

[Eutyphro]

Yes, they were. And for several other drivers too. For Vettel it was not by a lot, but other drivers went even further.

In the same video you can also see Bottas defending his position on Ricciardo by going off track.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Eutyphro

[Crokey]

When Vettel left that track on turn one, he was already ahead, so he didn't gain any position. The other two, the Renault and Toro Rosso didn't gain any positions.