Official F1 Topic

[Nico]

To me, something has to be done. F1 is not "trendy" anymore regardless of what the media that lives off it says, audiences are declining and they will continue to decline pretty much everywhere except the Netherlands lol. And probably not even there, even Euty said it; he barely watched because of how dominant Max is. That counts as a loss of audience. FIA did their thing to stop Ferrari and Red Bull's prior dominations in the early 2000's and 2010's, although during Merc's years they pretty much were allowed to run scot free. It's a rather bleak scenario if you're not a fan of Max.

 

The only thing I see might be worth watching this year is Carlos fighting (once again) for his future. It's not out the realm of possibility he might beat Leclerc once more, and come out as a desirable driver on the market. After all, a Mercedes seat is open and there will be a fierce fight for it. Merc might be a bit lost now, but I don't think they should be discounted from the possibility of them coming back to the top of the field.

[Eutyphro]

On one hand what I like is that considering Max has had plenty haters it is fun if he wins a lot to rub it in. On the other hand Dutch fans even are getting tired of winning. It is objectively better to have a real fight, and that sentiment also exists among Dutch fans.

 

In other news, Jos Verstappen has beef with Horner. If that causes chaos at Red Bull it might be a strange way to make the sport more even leveled again. But at this point it seems Red Bull has everything in order so well that their dominance is unlikely to change until new engine regulations/deals cause them to become less competitive on that front.

Edited March 3, 2024 by Eutyphro

[Jason]

Jos is potentially one of if not the individual behind the Horner allegations being made public, as they came from a journalist who is known for his ties to Jos and the Verstappen camp. Jos sh*t stirred even further by having a chat out in the open with Toto, who when asked if Max could ever drive for Merc after responded with "never say never", lol.

 

At this point I don't see how Horner stays tbh. The leaks, the internal conflicts, it's gonna follow the team around every weekend regardless of what the truth is, someone has to go and I think RB will choose Max over Horner.

[Eutyphro]

Alternatively Jos can step down from his position as Max's father.

[Nico]

17 minutes ago, Eutyphro said:

Alternatively Jos can step down from his position as Max's father.

I agree to this, unironically.

 

I would like to hear from Max's words the full details of his upbringing someday, perhaps after he retires. If there's something that pisses me off of Max's continued success is that it sort of continues to justify in the eyes of many the "tough love" approach of abusing the sh*t out of prodigious children in order to make them excel in their area.

[Jason]

Jos and Horner have never got along I think and now that he sees a route to get Horner out he's going for the jugular. I mean, there's now talk that Max could go to Merc if Horner stays lmao.

 

That's about as clear as you can get that Jos wants Horner out, and the longer Max stays silent on it the more and more it looks like he has no issues with what his father is saying.

 

Spicy.

[Stahli]

I think it's good that Max is holding back from making statements on this topic. Even if he didn't want him out. If the story turns out to be true, he might look stupid too. Until recently, I actually had the impression that Christian and he had a good relationship. But from the way it reads in the press, that's apparently not the case.

[Jason]

Yea the actual truth is ??? at this point, lot of Chinese whispers going on mixed with the media having a field day.

 

In other news; https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68465516

 

F1 is very casually imploding at the moment, lol.

[Stahli]

lol, Formula 1 offers more excitement off the track than on the track.

[Emmi]

I'll say it now ... Max will drive for Mercedes from next season on and will win the WDC nevertheless.

[Stahli]

I can't imagine. He will at least continue to drive in the RB until 2025. This means that 2 more titles are most likely. He could consider switching from 2026 when the new regulations begin. But to do this he would first have to get out of his contract, which is valid until 2028. Of course there is a clause in it but it is certainly tied to the success of the team. And I see RB ahead by 2025.

[Jason]

I mean if you believe the rumours then Max will leave if Horner stays, with Marko and Newey likely to follow (albeit not to Merc). It's an easy choice for RB, Horner will go.

 

There's talk Horner might be trying to finance a buy out of the team (probably with the Thai side of RB) but that's pure rumour stuff right now.

[Stahli]

Max, Marko and Newey to Aston Martin.  Max and Alonso in one Team, nice Kombo

[Emmi]

Max can leave RB early if Marko leaves it is understood, like immediately. I believe Max will sit in the Mercedes next season, just trust me. Max doesn't care for that potential 'easy' 5th title next season and might instead want to become a legend by winning a WDC title in a much slower car (Mercedes) and then be prepared for the new regs come 2026 where Mercedes should have a better power unit than RB at least. Max to Mercedes for 2025 would make a lot of sense to me.

[Jason]

"just trust me"

 

lol

 

This is posturing 101. If you understood the situation and had read the reports you'd know there are two sides in this situation, the Thai side of RB who own 51% and back Horner, and the Mateschitz side who own the rest who want Horner out, and have the backing of Marko and seemingly the Verstappen camp.

 

So because the Mateschitz side can't get rid of Horner w/o the other sides support, they're planting the seeds of an ultimatum to do it. RB losing Max is a gigantic risk to the RB racing brand and future, their entire F1 team is basically built around him at the moment.

 

The only way Horner survives is if the Mateschitz sell up, but by doing that Horner could lose a lot of RB staff in the process. Not to mention Ford, a partner for RB (particularly for the 2026 regs AFAIK) have been getting annoyed and there's talks of them pulling out because of the drama.

 

So far away the most likely scenario right now is they get rid of Horner. Too much to lose to keep just one man, who if the leaks are legit has made his bed anyway.

[Stahli]

Apparently Toto Wolff had dinner with Jos Verstappen at the Four Seasons Hotel Bahrain Bay. Of course it could also be a coincidence because perhaps they were both checked in there. Maybe @Emmi is right with his claim after all.

 

Source: youtu.be/O27hixbhJ5k

 

 

[Jason]

The more Toto and Jos sh*t stir the more and more likely it becomes that RB throw Horner out. Only way I see him staying at this point is if Horner buys the team in some form or another, which would also likely mean he loses Newey and Max now.

 

In actual F1 news, did see that drivers are complaining about ride height. Sounds like it's too low and over certain bumps it's f*cking them up. Not a porpoising situation this time, just a case of running too low it sounds like. Makes you question these regs tbh, they made the floor so important that every team wants to run as low as possible but not every track is super smooth, especially not street tracks. Could they have not forseen this sh*t lol.

[Jason]

After yesterday and Horner trying to sweep it all under the rug, RB looks like it's about to explode again: https://twitter.com/skysportformel1/status/1766186610788294812

 

Reports basically at the start of quali broke that Marko was about to be suspended, now Sky Germany are reporting he's on the verge of leaving. Max after quali has publicly backed Marko and said he should stay, and it's a big problem if he goes.

 

Horner must have the RB bosses family at gunpoint at this point, cause there's absolutely no reason why you'd want to keep him and risk losing the best driver of his generation lol.

 

Also as one final twist of the knife for Horner, the woman who accused him has took it to civil court too.

 

As quali, Merc look bloody awful, Hamilton especially looks miles away so far this season. Love seeing rookies get chances though, whatwith Sainz being ill, he (Bearman) very nearly got Q3 as well, he was just cooking it too hard in the chicane.

 

Edit: https://twitter.com/ErikvHaren/status/1766189905556979753

 

"Max Verstappen crystal clear: “I cannot continue without Helmut Marko.” When a top advisor leaves it is clear; then Verstappen leaves Red Bull. “Unworkable situation if Helmut had to leave.”"

 

herewego.gif

[Emmi]

Oh man I f*cking hope Max goes to Mercedes. I hope he has the guts to leave RB at any race of this season (and hand the WDC to Checo most likely) - whenever Marko is 'thrown out' by the RB higher-ups - like leave IMMEDIATELY. That'd make him the ultimate legend for me and he'd owe my damn respect and certainly of the entire F1 community and beyond.

 

I have my popcorn ready ... this is a great season if all for the wrong reasons. lol

 

Max -> Mercedes immediate switch and throw Lewis out and let him sit at the Ferrari box

RB -> let Dani drive there and get some rookie in that Racing Bulls seat

Lewis -> do the strategy calls at Ferrari for the rest of the season (he clearly isn't motivated anymore because his performance is beyond questionable!)

 

That'd be the dream!

 

Next year Max vs. Lewis - repeat of the 2021 season - and Max wins again despite sitting in a bad car but I gotta agree that Max at the moment is the best driver of the entire grid, then comes Alonso and 3rd POSSIBLY Lewis or Charles ... Lewis just really disappointed me lately but I think it's just his lack of motivation.

 

Also there's reports that Adrian Newey and Pierre Wache might leave to Ferrari if the situation with Horner isn't reviewed fully transparent. Newey has to design a f*cking Ferrari F1 car in his career ... it'd be a waste if he didn't.

Edited March 8, 2024 by Emmi

[Nico]

Max going to Mercedes would be like him coming full circle, after all he was their protege during his teenager years but they were unable to find a seat for him in 2014, and Marko snatched him. Also, winning with more than one team is IMHO what defines the greatest champions, be able to thrive in more than one type of environment. And Mercedes is basically the opposite of Red Bull in terms of internal culture.

[Jason]

Sounds like the scenario I mentioned a few days ago:

 

Austrian side of RB, which has Marko and by extension Max

vs

Thai side of RB, which has 51% of RB's team and Horner

 

Saw a report earlier, obviously a lot of info is going around, much of it no doubt exaggerated or not true, but the report talked about how Horner, after being cleared and having the Thai backing, is now trying to clear house and get the people who went against him out, which includes Marko, which seemingly is what may have triggered Max to finally stop being diplomatic.

 

I still can't picture the Austrian side of RB letting Horner tear the team to pieces by losing Max... but we'll see! Max and Lewis moving teams would make next season f*cking amazing on paper.

[Emmi]

6 hours ago, Jason said:

I still can't picture the Austrian side of RB letting Horner tear the team to pieces by losing Max... but we'll see! Max and Lewis moving teams would make next season f*cking amazing on paper.

Ye, Lewis in the Ferrari vs. Max in the Mercedes (his former team) ... now that'd be exciting to see and especially if Max would win the WDC in a worse car against all odds. I could see another battle like in 2021 unfold if Max really goes to Mercedes.

[Emmi]

Man is this season boring. 1 and 2 is RB and 3 is a Ferrari driver. Nothing happens in the entire race. Everyone is driving behind each other and it seems like barely anyone is able to overtake. Bring on 2025.

[Jason]

Mhm.

 

Talk from teams/drivers saying they're closer to RB this year... nope. No one is anywhere near Max, he had the race won in one lap, two at most, and that is genuinely not an exaggeration.

 

Now Perez, someone who has shown him to be a middle of the pack driver in terms of quality, is cruising to 2nd's.

 

Merc are miles away, they've gone backwards, and while Ferrari look second best that's about the only team I would say have made a step forward. Elsewhere, Alpine have collapsed and now have the worst car on the grid.

[Emmi]

Maybe it was a good decision after all for Lewis to go to Ferrari, we'll see. Mercedes is a disaster and definitely worse than last year.

[DEALUX]

I don't see Hamilton outperforming Leclerc so from a financial standpoint, Sainz would've made more sense. Not that I want to see Ferrari succeed. They are a garbage team as far as I'm concerned. I don't think they deserved this win in Australia but I'm happy for Sainz.

[Dostoyevskiy]

It was worth waking up one hour before the race at 4 AM to see that. And as I've said before and i stand by it - Leclerc is the best driver on the grid when it comes to qualifying - in terms of race pace he is mid. I don't see him winning with Hamilton over season in races but in qualifying I except Hamilton to be beaten pretty badly. Finally, Sainz will get some recognition, because it would be sad if he ends up in midfield. He deserves that top sit, unfortunely the only one avaible is at Redbull. He can also bet that Mercedes would rule 2026-onwards and flip that coin. It's gonna be interesting to see where he ends up. Oh, almost forgot about Russell, will anybody tell me once again that he is better than Hamilton?

[Jason]

If one of the few races I'll miss this season is the only one where RB don't have a car in the top 3 I'll be

 

Another win for Sainz though which is great to see, over the past 12-18 months or so he's become a real favourite of mine. He'd be a fantastic pick up for RB or Merc next year.

 

...though I'd hesitate about joining Merc. Whoever and however they're designing their cars right now, they're miles off. They look truly awful this year.

 

edit: just saw the radio comms from George's crash and holy sh*t the very understandable fear in his voice. If that was say earlier in the race with a more bunched up pack that could've been extremely bad.

[Nico]

I think Ferrari is going to regret having put Sainz aside for a not-far-from-retirement Hamilton. It's not like the British driver isn't objectively better than the Spaniard, but Carlos is on fire right now, and Lewis is well past his prime. And all of this coming from surgery recovery. Lewis hasn't been the same since Abu Dhabi 2021, it shows.

 

Still, I believe Japan will be a return to normality, although I wonder how this will affect the internal pressures of the Red Bull team. Things have gone quiet there after Saudi, and the drama of the weekend was centered about Williams and their inability to have a spare chassis. Not like Logan would have had better chances of scoring a point than Albon who was close. Both HAAS on points, pretty good for a team that intended to be dead last. Bottas just can't catch a break with dreadful pit stops no matter where he goes lol.

[Jason]

Given the timezones of the first few races of the season I've only watched... one I think?

 

But going by the performances so far, I think, like a growing amount of people I imagine, that I'm very rapidly losing interest in this season.

 

Red Bull have the only great car and everyone else is miles away. There's only so long you can work your self up to get excited for a midfield battle, but as I expected that's lost any sparkle it once had.

 

As I've said before I don't really know what Liberty/FIA can do about it, I don't think it's fair to reel RB in, they've earned their success and dominance. But they do need to figure out something for the new regulations cause this is just... sh*t to watch lol.