Official F1 Topic

[Lonely-Martin]

Yeah, very enjoyable race indeed

 Hopefully it continues next year and we've got a bit more on the line, this track looks like it could be a good addition for sure.

 

One note, I felt it was a bit weird how the commentators were so annoyed at Max only getting a 5 second penalty from the first corner there.

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree with their point. 5 second penalty for that has never been enough of a deterrent. Made worse if/when Max does it simply because we know he's more than fast enough, usually, to just get that 5 seconds back in no time. We see it with other drivers through the season where that 5 second penalty didn't cost them and track position was more important

 

 

That rule needs looking at. Should be a ten second stop and go. But the way the commentators made it sound yesterday eas as if Max got a lighter punishment. They never once mentioned that it is the standard penalty, just felt like they were painting Max as a villain there too much when it's clearly an exploitable ruling.

 

And if it was true that Mercedes were the only team to oppose that Ferrari 10 grid place penalty, that's a huge oopsie IMHO. From a company that's been screaming 'sporting integrity' since Lewis/Max, just seems a bit of a double standard in a way. I get that the rules are the rules, but much like that 'offside' with Spurs/Liverpool, a bit of common sense should be superseding these rules when these rare moments happen. Ferrari were screwed unfairly by the rules there and hampered what could have been a great weekend for them.

[smokeless6]

Oh man, you had to bring up the Spurs match. Just when I had nearly forgotten about it! haha

 

You must be watching the Sky broadcast? Crofty is a massive homer and doesn't want Max to win. I don't know how he has survived this season with Max winning 18 races or whatever it is. Matter of fact, I see Crofty going in to my therapist who I am seeing over the Spurs match trauma. It must be to deal with Max's dominance

 

Crofty is terrible. Great tenor to his voice, very enthusiastic, and 'lights out and away we go' is the soundtrack of Formula 1. But the man is a mess, constantly making mistakes. I've never seen anyone so confused over which driver is the one doing the overtaking. How many times does he get it wrong? In one of the recent races, Ocon retired. Several laps later the camera flashes to Gasly (who is the only Alpine still on the track, mind) and Crofty announces it is Ocon. I can forgive occasional mistakes, but this man is a fountain. But he is better than Murray Walker who was certainly drunk at every race.

 

Martin Brundle is really the only one of the standard Sky team I want to listen to. But Button and Rosberg are great too. Natalie Pinkham is good too. Don't get me started on Ted Kravitz. There HAS to be a better option in the pit lane than this dude.

Edited November 20, 2023 by smokeless6

[Lonely-Martin]

Yeah, lol. Sorry to mention the unmentionable there though, @smokeless6. Just it's a fine example of a scenario where I'm sure the officials would only be praised for looking to swiftly deal with things with some common sense. Just crazy to see those moments play out as they defy logic.

 

But yeah, Sky TV it was. I do enjoy Martin and Karun has good energy and gets better in front of the camera over time as well. The enthusiasm is there, and Martin/Crofty work well together as Martin helps steer the ship if and when mistakes happen often enough, although they do well when we get longer delays to fill the time as many times it's just a waiting game and the Sky folks overall do have good banter.

 

Could be worse though, could be DC! Poor chap has been presenting for a while now, and still so wooden. Jenson anyway please!!!

[Jason]

Crofty is a mistake machine on his own, but without Brundle especially it can a bit messy with him. Crofty and Ted in particular are extremely bias to English drivers, aka Lewis, like Abu Dhabi was a sh*t show and all but the comments they made were just unprofessional and daft. You can tell they've been told to reel it in cause now they praise RB/Max but you can tell it's painful for them to do it lol.

 

Brundle is still great and is pretty damn neutral all things considered, it will be a sad day when he finally steps down completely. I do like Karun though, I think he's getting better and better and I think he could be a good long term replacement if they can't convince Button to do it full time.

[smokeless6]

My view on Chandok is tied to his role for the week. If he's in a role where Crofty and Brundle cut to him occasionally for insight I like him fine. He often makes good observations and can explain it well.

 

But if Martin's not there this week and Chandok is in the booth with Crofty I don't like him. He seems to think he needs to fill every second by explaining Formula 1 to us. Don't need that. If Brundle can't make it this week, please put Rosberg or Button in that seat.

 

Ted Kravitz is a mess. These people are paid, handsomely I would suspect, to speak for a living. No one in sports broadcasting jumbles what they want to say as much as Kravitz. Like he has four things to say but only one can come out of his pie hole at a time. And his spots are almost always interrupted as the broadcast goes to team radio, which extends Kravitz' bits, makes him start over and forget was he was on about. Probably a nice guy and I'd like to have a pint with him. But he needs to go.

Edited November 22, 2023 by smokeless6

[Jason]

Oh yea Karun can be a bit chatty when he's the co-comm, but that comes with experience I think. I think his insight is good though, knowledge of the rules, first hand knowledge of driving a F1 car, etc. He can talk a lot but it's more like... he overexplains stuff, to make sure people who are watching F1 for the first time can understand. Brundle does it early on in most races so it's more of a Sky thing but Karun over does it a little. I'll still take that over commentators who just waffle nonsense though, like a lot of UK football co-comms.

 

In an ideal world Button replaces Brundle but I don't think Button has the time right now, he's got other stuff going on and I don't think he'll ever not have that stuff going on to go full time F1 co-comm, but Button is absolutely fantastic when he's in the box. Not keen on Rosberg my self, he just rubs me the wrong way sometimes with how he talks, but it might be an accent / second language thing.

[Lonely-Martin]

With Karun, I'm almost sitting there waiting for him to break character and go 'look, ma! I'm on TV' or something, you know? Just so energetic and you can tell he's loving his roles with Sky.

 

But with him being more a natural for the faster, snappy moments where he's used to only having a minute or 30 seconds to get as much in there, it's only natural ot spills over, so I'm more forgiving of that but I hope he improves in areas like you guys said as he just seems a good lad indeed.

[smokeless6]

Watching the qualifying pre-show on F1 TV, I have to add that Will Buxton is also not a favorite. Something very Shatner-esque about how he talks. Off-putting.

 

Final race of the year boys. What a season.

 

There have been seasons in the past where qualifying and race results were often a mirror of the table for the teams. So the two Mercedes, followed by both Ferraris, followed by both Red Bulls and right on down the order. Like Noah's Ark

But this year it's all mixed up. I think we had eight different marques in the top ten for Vegas qualifying and this stands out for me as one of the best parts of this season as it has been like this all year. Like last season, every team has scored points and this hasn't always been the case, such was the gap from top to bottom and even from team to team, which gave us those Noah's Ark grids and race results. The 2022 regulations aren't perfect, and there's been some divergence from the spirit of those regulations, like how the cars are producing more wake off the rear wings due to creatively interpreting the rules. Overall though this car formula and cost cap has been a success I think in making for better racing up and down the grid. Hopefully we see more narrowing of the gaps, which we should, and a proper fight at the top in 2024.

[Jason]

If Max Verstappen didn't exist this season has been unbelievably good. The competition has been great, AM's flying start, Merc/Ferrari blowing hot and cold all year, McLaren's summer resurgence. Lot of good stuff.

 

...it's just Verstappen does, in fact, exist. What he's done this season is mind boggling, it's one of the most dominant seasons from any sportsperson ever, it's absolutely absurd and he deserves all the plaudits.

 

But for a neutral I really f*cking hope the other teams catch up or RB go down a wrong path or something lol. I do think we'll get a repeat though, I get the strong impression that RB stopped their development on this car a loooooooooooooong time ago.

[smokeless6]

Verstappen is out of this world. Kimi led about 1,100 laps in his entire twenty-year career, and Max just led nearly that many in a single season. The RB19 was clearly the best car, but that doesn't automatically make it win 19 races (plus two for Checo, which maybe harpoons my argument haha)). Max is relentless. Every race he shows up and goes fast right off the transporter. What mistakes did he make this season? So few I struggle to think of any other than Singapore, and even there he's in the top five. It's this relentless flawlessness combined with such desire to compete and win that makes him maybe the best F1 driver ever. That's an argument for the ages, but I've been around for more than half of Formula 1's lifetime and who would I say is a better race car driver? I can more easily make arguments about careers, but as a driver?

It's an imperfect science trying to compare drivers, how can it be done? Was Jim Clark better than Hamilton, or Fangio better than Senna? Prost or Vettel? All of these drivers are in the top echelon, but none of them had a season like we just saw from Verstappen. And many of those men had better cars relative to the field than this year's Red Bull had.

And it must be said that the Red Bull team was nearly flawless too, and none of this happens if they are getting it wrong. Tire choice, pitstops, strategy, reliability, and just building a fantastic Formula 1 car, they just get it right. Fully deserved. First one-two in their history. What a season.

Piastri had a superb rookie year. I was skeptical he would live up to the hype and pressure of the contentious move to McLaren. But this kid is the real deal and well done to him. He is ice cool and very likely a future world champion. It's rare for me to say this about any rookie, but he has pace, racecraft and seems utterly calm at all times. That's a good mix to be a top driver. He was so good in fact that he gave Lando a battle all season. Lando came out well on top, but I didn't expect him to push so hard, and I bet Lando didn't either. I have Norris marked out as a future champ too, but he needs to clean it up, particularly in qualifying, and he's said so himself. He is missing that precision that makes Max so good. Still time and having Piastri pushing him so hard in the intra-team will help both drivers.

Good season for Williams after spending so long at the bottom. Seventh is not where they want to be, but it has to be considered a successful season. With a different second driver they likely would have been farther up the order or at least knocking on the door. Sargeant didn't impress enough for me. He wasn't wrecking too many cars or making big mistakes more than any other rookie does, but he fails to outdrive his machinery. Albon does it. But Sargeant didn't have the ability to extract the maximum. You could argue he deserves a second season, but if I were Williams I'd look at options.

Ferrari should have taken second this season and have only themselves to blame. Too many mistakes from the team and the drivers. Too much bad luck. So much of the current formula comes down to the rear end. Red Bull nailed it, and their aero efficiency meant they could run more rear wing than the other cars, and especially so compared to Ferrari who needed run less wing to turn competitive laptimes. This leads to more sliding, which eats the rears faster and this was their achilles heel all season. Fast over one lap, but no chance to move forward during the grand prix as their deg built faster than their rivals. Vasseur gets a second, full season now and let's see if they can dial it in for a real fight in '24. They need improved driver performance, a better car, and a better performance operationally. That's a tall order but I feel like they are right there. Just need to nail it.

So that left Mercedes to swoop in and take second. You have to hand it to them to have such a result in a season that felt so difficult. It seemed like every race weekend they were struggling, but at the checkered flag they're pulling in good points, and so it proved that over the long haul they were right there to take it. They'll be happy with the result, but not the performance as a football manager would say. Need a better final ball. Well done to Lewis as well for handily winning the intra-team after not doing so the year before. Merc don't feel as close as I think McLaren and Ferrari are, but I wouldn't count them out for next year. The margins are as tight as ever across the field. We're talking a second and half at some circuits in qualifying from pole to last and I can recall when that would be the gap to sixth, not the entire field. Austria was eight tenths pole to De Vries. So minor gains with the car can mean big gains in the order next year. Third year of the regulations should see some compression I would expect.

Of the bottom three I feel like Alpha Tauri were on the rise at the tail end of the season, whilst Alfa and Haas are sort of nowhere. All of this could bounce around for next year, but AT feel primed to make some gains.

Aston Martin will feel torn. Such a good start, such a bad second half. It's not possible -- is it? -- but it felt like they sort of lucked in to their initial design for 2023, but didn't quite understand why, so that when they attempted to develop it they went off the rails. Probably some truth to this as they actually reverted some parts of the car and saw some improvement over the final few races. They'll be scratching their heads over their season I think.

And finally, Alpine. What a stormy year. Congrats to Gasly for coming in to this vortex of a Formula 1 team and winning the battle with Ocon. There's dysfunction here away from the track and it feels like they are near implosion. They complained they were down on power and sought to have some help from F1 and I'm glad that came to nothing. And despite all of this they were competitive on track. Australia was a disaster with Ocon and Gasly taking each other out on the final restart, which seemed to set the tone. They had good points wrapped up and threw it away with only themselves to blame. So it feels like their season probably wasn't too bad all things considered and if they can find some smooth waters in which to operate they might give the top three a run next season.

In all, the Max dominance takes some shine off what was otherwise an fantastic season. The intervals from second in the driver's to seventh are pretty tight, and every race threw up a mixed grid and mixed results. We have a final order, but it was anything but over the course of the year, from race to race.

Race of the Year -- Las Vegas
Surprise of the Year -- Piastri
Biggest Disappointment -- Imola cancelled

Edited November 26, 2023 by smokeless6

[Jason]

This race is a good summary of the season really - Max cruising away into the literal sunset while we we watch a really good race behind him.

 

Leclerc should really have forced that late decision to help Perez a lap or two sooner, Ferrari don't have the balls to give that order but it was their only play, but it was a nice bit of spice to end the race though. Yuki had a great little race too it had to be sad, but a bit of a disaster for Sainz and Hamilton.

 

Onto next season where I'll be watching with my fingers, arms, legs and toes crossed that the excitement next year involves P1 more often.

[Jason]

The off-season silly season has started.

 

A dogsh*t F1 media outlet known for spreading BS reported on team bosses reporting Susie and Toto Wolff for a conflict of interest / sharing confidential information with each other - Susie being a senior figure in FOM, running the F1 academy stuff IIRC.

 

The FIA fell for it hook line and sinker and opened up an investigation into the Wolff's based on this report, which drew some strong replies from Merc and Susie.

 

But it gets worse, because the FIA's response to this appears to have been to suggest that multiple teams reported this to the FIA.

 

...literally every single team has released a united statement that none of them have done anything of the sort.

 

F1 has been looking for a reason to drop the FIA for a while I think... this could be the last straw lol.

[MindCorrupt]

Hamilton set to make shock switch to Ferrari in F1 2025

 

I have a feeling testing in the Mercedes was not promising lol. 

 

The Leclerc / Hamilton dynamic is going to be so spicy. 

[Stahli]

The probability that this is true seems to be really high. I'm really surprised. So I didn't really expect that. It is more likely that he will stay with Mercedes until the end of his career.

[smokeless6]

This is shocking, and I'm here for it.

 

There's so much possible speculation about why it happened/might happen.  Evidently no contract has been signed yet, so who knows?

 

Is Hamilton jumping ship because the W15 is not looking good? Did Merc say this is the last contract, we want to move in a different direction, so Hamilton needed to find a new seat? Was he disgruntled and fed up? Or maybe just wants a new challenge or has always dreamed of racing in red as so many drivers have down the years?

 

This will be a chaotic season at Merc, especially if they are off the pace in the early going. Unity and that sort of thing is important in a Formula 1 team. If Hamilton is leaving of his own accord then that introduces a level of tension in the team. Sir Loo is too good for us eh? After all we have done for him, ya know? If it was Merc's decision maybe this isn't an issue. How could some in the team not feel he's a traitor on some level? Moves happen all the time, as a matter of fact 2024 will be the first season in F1's history with no driver changes. But Hamilton and Mercedes are different given their long partnership and success.

 

This is spicy news indeed.

[Jason]

Looks like a cert - so many industry figures tweeting about it like it's a certainty and the BBC reported just recently that Merc had briefed the team about the move at 2pm.

 

Incredible moment for the sport honestly, something that's been one of the great "what if's?" of Formula 1 for a good while now and it's actually happening.

 

It's gonna be a great, great story to follow over the next few years.

[Stahli]

I'm curious whether Mercedes will come or whether Mick Schumacher will get the cockpit. Would be good for F1 status in Germany. Hardly anyone watches it here anymore. It is also no longer available on free TV except for 4 races per season. 

 

Another interesting topic. It's a shame Andretti was rejected. I find the reasons ridiculous and very arrogant from F1.

Edited February 1, 2024 by Stahli

[Jason]

Yea the Andretti stuff, from a fans perspective, just seems... sh*t. I think it'd be great to have another team on the grid, I think you could add another 2-4 cars comfortably. Would only be a good thing for fans for me but alas, politics and all that.

 

As for Merc, I would imagine they'll make Russell their #1 driver which will be a bit interesting, not sure he's ready for that pressure as of today and it's only a year from happening seemingly. If that is the case, who the f*ck do they get to partner him lol? Talk of a rookie coming in which would be exciting, but I don't see Merc, who want to compete for titles, going down that path. And I don't see them getting a new #1 driver, Lando's just signed a new long term deal and he's pretty much the only one they'd realistically want I'd imagine.

 

Lewis to Ferrari is such a spicy move for so many reasons. The 2025 season is gonna be one of the most hyped up in a long time.

[smokeless6]

Don't get me started on the Andretti farce. I hope he sues the pants off them.

[smokeless6]

Holy smokes. Just on this 'rumor' Ferrari's market cap has increased nearly 8 billion! Wow. That's simply amazing to me, and it seems investors think this would be a good signing.

 

So let's assume for now that this goes through as reported ad Lewis is off to Fez. Who does Merc try to bring in to fill the seat?

 

My gut instinct is it will be Albon. Good mates with GR, much improved and the right age and experience.

 

Other possibilities are Sainz (more on him in a sec), Ocon, Alonso or the kid coming up, Kimi Antonelli, but that's a long shot. He would probably be farmed out on loan first.

 

Sainz. What must he be thinking? How do you go through the entire season knowing they don't want you and will be cast aside? You have to be super professional to set this aside. He is probably the best choice (among those currently on the grid) to take Hamilton's vacated seat. But I think they will like what Albon brings to the team.

[Jason]

 

 

What a moment for F1.

 

There's gonna be silly season all season for both the Merc and RB seat as well, plus endless speculation on what the 2025 season is gonna be like.

[Margot Robbed Me]

In b4 Lewis Hamilton posts a Piastri style tweet 

 

Quote

I understand that, without my agreement, Scuderia Ferrari have put out a press release late this afternoon that I am driving for them next year. This is wrong and I have not signed a contract with Ferrari for 2025. I will not be driving for Ferrari next year.

 

[MindCorrupt]

On 2/1/2024 at 5:09 PM, Jason said:

Yea the Andretti stuff, from a fans perspective, just seems... sh*t. I think it'd be great to have another team on the grid, I think you could add another 2-4 cars comfortably. Would only be a good thing for fans for me but alas, politics and all that.

 

As for Merc, I would imagine they'll make Russell their #1 driver which will be a bit interesting, not sure he's ready for that pressure as of today and it's only a year from happening seemingly. If that is the case, who the f*ck do they get to partner him lol? Talk of a rookie coming in which would be exciting, but I don't see Merc, who want to compete for titles, going down that path. And I don't see them getting a new #1 driver, Lando's just signed a new long term deal and he's pretty much the only one they'd realistically want I'd imagine.

 

Lewis to Ferrari is such a spicy move for so many reasons. The 2025 season is gonna be one of the most hyped up in a long time.

 

The team radio from Russell is for certain going to be interesting this year. I try so much to like George but I reckon it's going to make him even less likeable if he's looking to cement the #1 spot for 2025. 

 

Lets be honest with Merc though it's going to be Sainz if he actually wants it otherwise It's going to be to Sauber in the lead up for Audi. 

[Jason]

Sainz would be a safe choice, but I dunno if I see it happening. I think in Russell Merc have someone they think can challenge for wins and even titles, so they can perhaps afford to wait and almost have a bit of a gamble either on a young talent or just do something out of left field.

[Pizzahut]

Is it really that unrealistic to think that Alonso could move to Merc? Reddit thinks it is, but AM being a Merc customer team and all, and we all know that Alonso is still a very, very capable driver...

 

Although I would love to see a customer team win a championship for once, so idk...

[Jason]

Alonso's mid 40's and while he showed he's still got it last year, I think Merc would probably look at him as a last resort. There's always the risk of what happens sometimes in football and other sports, a player in the twilight of their sporting career just turns up one season and doesn't have the legs for it anymore.

 

I think if they could have their pick they'd go for Lando but, and I think Toto even alluded to it, he's just signed a new long term deal.

[Jason]

F*cking hell at what is going on at Red Bull.

 

Reportedly serious allegations, with evidence, have been made against Christian Horner from a female RB employee. Horner's relationship with the leadership at Red Bull (the drinks company part of it) has not been great in the last year or two according to reports, and that combined with what is going on this week is now leading to reports that he's been asked to step down already.

 

Now that would be a crazy, crazy headline for F1.

[smokeless6]

It's time once again for smokeless's Pre-Season State of the Grid Extravaganzapalooza!

My assessment having watched all three days of testing, and rummaging through the data, I present the current state of the grid

1. Red Bull. Based on data, lap times, deg and just the eye test, Red Bull are top of the table. They have both shocked and surprised me by not simply refining their superior design, but changing the concept, and perhaps most surprisingly of all, going with a design not unlike Merc's zero pods. Red Bull have pulled a blinder on the competition. That the entire grid was surprised was fun to see, and you can sense they are all thinking WTF? In-season development will be key as always, but when the lights go out in Bahrain it is Red Bull who are the team to beat. Car looks superb.

2. Ferrari. The data from the testing shows Fez are about two-tenths off Red Bull's pace. Of course we don't know all the details. Fuel loads, engine maps and the rest. But just interpreting the data it looks like Ferrari are a tick behind. Most encouragingly for the team, they look to have solved their massive deg problem that caused them to fall off so much over a stint last year. One of Sainz' long stints during the test showed negative deg, which occurs as the fuel burns, and his lap times actually got faster on the same set of shoes. Very promising indeed and I expect Ferrari to be a challenger on race days this season, not just on Saturday. Too much yellow in the livery for me. Last year's was better.

3. Mercedes. Hard to place them right now. The test showed great long run pace, but poor single lap pace. Which if true, would see them qualify farther down and be forced to fight their way forward, essentially the opposite of what we saw from Ferrari last season. They can run with Fez and McLaren, but can they qualify alongside? That will be their focus. Too much black in the Silver Arrows

4. McLaren. What a shift from the last extravagapalooza! Data suggests they are another tenth adrift over a single lap, and a tenth again on long runs. But this is a much better starting position than 2023. I really like their driver pairing, and I expect Piastri to kick on from his excellent rookie campaign. If McLaren can duplicate their gains from last year, they will have a good shot to stand on the top step this season. Not enough Papaya in the car, and I still hate the wheel covers.

5. Aston Martin. It feels like a bit of a toss-up between them and Toro Rosso Visa Cash App Alpha Minardi (we'll just call them RB), but I am handing fifth place to Aston based on having faster race pace according to the data. RB look to be a hair faster over one lap, but Aston Martin look primed to have better long stints, and that's where the points are earned. But this is a slight regression from their position this time last year. Best looking car on the grid.

6. RB (call 'em what you will. VCARB?). About even with Aston over the test, which is a fair gain over the winter and the mood in the camp is good. Two drivers with a lot to prove. I can see RB making some noise, in the points every week. In-season dev will be key to their fortunes over the course of the season. But this is a promising start for a team who have struggled for points for years now. Livery is a mess, my least favorite of them all.

7. Alpine. This is even closer between Alpine and Kick than the last pair above, but the gap to the teams ahead is daunting at the moment. Remarkably, both their single lap and long run pace are identical to each other. It's a demoralizing test, as Alpine would have been hoping to take a step. But they have not and at the start they will be battling for the final point most weeks. Just can't get in to the blue/pink thing. Needs more pink. Bring back the Racing Point.

8. Sauber (Kick, Stake, whatever). It was a promising test as the car looks more competitive than a year ago. They are still in the bottom half, but not the slowest. Reason for optimism and they should be in and around the points more often than not. The neon green really stands out. Bold.

9. Williams. Disappointing to still be near the bottom (thanks Haas!). They had hoped to develop a car that married good corner pace to their good straight line speed, but the evidence suggest they have missed the mark. Points will be hard to come by. Blue on blue? Meh. Bring back the white Williams

10. Haas. Just sell to Andretti already. Haas' 2024 car is just not working. Data shows they are two tenths slower than the next slowest, Williams. They have it all to do. There is more black in the car and it works for me.

Edited February 24, 2024 by smokeless6

[Jason]

Ominous from Max and RB.

 

For a neutral it's worrying, but it looks like RB might have nailed it once again. We'll have to see what it's like in a real race of course but oof.

[Nico]

F1 is the only sport I follow, and honestly if no one is able to challenge Max I might as well just stop bothering.

 

I can't understand the mentality of some people who are excited for Max having a perfect season. F*ck no, I don't want to know who is going to win from the get go EVERY SINGLE WEEKEND. I want unpredictability, fight for the lead, and I'm sure the majority thinks the same. Wonder how much the audiences will have to continue falling for Liberty or the FIA to take matters in the issue. This will hurt Max's legacy in the future too, your sporting achievements are as good as the quality of your rivals.