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David.

Official F1 Topic

Recommended Posts

Eutyphro

If Vettel would've had to stay within track limits, and brake earlier, Hamilton would've likely overtaken him. He possibly would've lost his position. Leaving track limits was a way to defend and hold onto pace for Vettel. Bottas left the track to defend against Ricciardo and Verstappen as well. The rule is you can't gain an advantage from leaving the track. Clearly this is not consistently enforced. You could say some drivers go off track to prevent collission. But the same could be said about Verstappen, and you've admitted that yourself. Verstappen was going faster than Raikkonen and he really had nowhere to go.

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Kiffster

Yeah just watched the start and came here to say what crokey said. Vettel was already ahead and didn't gain a position so it's not the same as Max/Kimi.

The advantage gained by overtaking off track is obviously much, much greater than the very slight, temporary time advantage gained by cars leaving the track without overtaking, which is why Max was the only one penalized. He was the only one who did that and that was the specific rule I was talking about when talking about consistency. The rule is clear as days yo! Overtaking is a major advantage and much more deserving of a penalty if done illegally than a tiny little temporary time advantage.

 

If a driver is constantly going off track and gaining obvious large chunks of time without overtaking then I'm sure he would be penalized as well, but that doesn't really happen.

 

Mistakes happen and drivers will go off track entirely, but as long as they don't gain a major (or what they call a lasting) advantage like overtaking then the stewards will let it slide.

 

I do agree that they need to look at all tracks and replace this pointless bit or any other similar tarmac sections with grass or something to prevent stuff like this from happening again. You're gonna lose a tiny bit of time or maybe even control going over grass

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Eutyphro

That's not the rule though. The rule is gaining an advantage by going off track. And many other drivers gained such an advantage, but only Max was punished.

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Kiffster

No dude. He was punished for an illegal overtake and in doing so gaining a "lasting advantage". No one else did that or gained such an advantage which is why only he was penalized. Emphasis on lasting advantage.

 

If it happened a couple of laps earlier he would have been told to let Kimi pass.

 

Haha I'm repeating myself in all my posts in here

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Eutyphro

You are wrong. Here's Charlie Whiting:

"We have to take a practical approach to this. The only time that it was absolutely clear that the driver gained an advantage [in Austin], the driver was duly penalised and that is really where we are coming from."

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/132659/whiting-hits-back-at-track-limits-critics

It's not about overtaking. It is about gaining an advantage. If you can overtake someone by braking late and then going off track, like Vettel, you've gained an advantage. If you can hold onto your pace and defend your position like Bottas did by going off track, you've gained an advantage.

You can repeat the same false thing, but it will still be false.

Meanwhile, what can be argued is that Verstappen mainly wen't off track with four wheels, not because it was faster, but because it was the most certain way to prevent a crash. What can be concluded is that the track limit rule is applied very inconsistently. You could easily argue almost every time someone goes off track they are gaining an advantage, or they wouldn't be doing it.

Edited by Eutyphro

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Kiffster

Come on man, you're not following what I'm saying. But in that same article:

 

"Leaving the track is not an offence in itself, but if a driver does so he must rejoin the track safety and without gaining any lasting advantage. Those words are really important in this case."

 

"There were a number of occasions when drivers left the track during race and practice that were not formally looked at by stewards purely because no lasting advantage was gained."

 

"The point here really is that the stewards felt he [Verstappen] gained an advantage. He shortened the track and clearly he was off track and he passed another driver at the same time."

Again... Emphasis on LASTING advantage.

And again... even if Max left the track in order to prevent a collision, he still gained a position illegally and have to give that place back to Kimi.

 

But cool, I'm done here

Edited by Kiffster

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Eutyphro

Pretty much everyone from Sergio Perez to Ross Brawn has minimally come out supporting the idea that there's an issue with the consistency with which rules were enforced. That was what you were saying, that it was consistently applied, and that is just not true. You can interpret it in your own way, and only an overtake being a lasting advantage, but that is not the rule really. Pretty much every time a driver goes off track by choice, and not by technical failure or by being forced there, it can be considered advantageous.

If you were just arguing that you thought it was right that Verstappen got penalized, I could agree to disagree. But if you argue the rule is enforced with consistency, and there are no consistency issues regarding how the rule was enforced in the race, then you are simply wrong.

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Kiffster

told you a couple of times already that the one and only rule I was talking about was the rule that cars can't overtake other cars by going off track. That specific rule has always been consistently enforced. Fact.

 

Also wasn't saying that overtaking is the only major lasting advantage, but in this specific race it was, which is why Max was penalized and not any of the other drivers. Max overtaking another car is the issue here and that alone is why he was penalized. Not because he went completely off track, but because he overtook someone else by doing so.

 

Don't know why it's so difficult for you to understand.

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dingodile_r89

Vettel and Verstappen on the front row. This can't possibly go wrong at all. I see absolutely nothing to worry about.

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Kiffster

And Bottas who's a little pissed right behind Max

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Crokey

Congrats to Lewis and also Max for winning the race without any racing line issues :p

 

I'm thinking that Lewis is going for Schumachers record now, and I wouldn't be surprised if he did it.

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Eutyphro

Vettel and Verstappen on the front row. This can't possibly go wrong at all. I see absolutely nothing to worry about.

Actually almost did go wrong. I don't see many people criticizing Vettel, except for Hamilton himself over radio, but he was a complete maniac defending his position in the first few corners. First unsuccessfully trying to run Max off the track, and then ramming into both Max and Lewis rear tire. They almost investigated it, but it was fine that they didn't. They should be lenient at the start of the race. But it was overly aggressive what Vettel was doing.

 

But as a Dutchman, I'm very happy with Max winning the race, of course. Max has a long and great career ahead of him.

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Kiffster

Vettel absolutely sucks under pressure. Almost every time he's at the front he totally screws it up. I say replace Vettel with Ricciardo at Ferrari and give Ricciardo a shot at winning the title.

 

Good driving by Vettel though to finish 4th from almost last, but that's actually one of the reasons I think GP2 is way better than F1. All the cars are identical with the same engines, tires and chassis which makes overtaking like that so much more difficult. Always hate it in F1 when faster, bigger teams find it so easy to make their way through the field. Sad that we don't see GP2 in my country anymore though.

 

As for Hamilton, not the best way to win and make some history, but there you go. A win's a win and he fully deserved it.

Edited by Kiffster

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elfoam

Congrats to Lewis and also Max for winning the race without any racing line issues :p

 

I'm thinking that Lewis is going for Schumachers record now, and I wouldn't be surprised if he did it.

Oh man I hope not... Next year should be much tighter than this year. Lewis is proving to be a very good driver but he's certainly no Micheal. I really hope no one ever beats his records at least not until someone genuinely better comes along. No one on the grid right now deserves his record. But anyway super excited for next year and interested to see where all the drivers go, it's going to get crazy.

Vettel absolutely sucks under pressure. Almost every time he's at the front he totally screws it up. I say replace Vettel with Ricciardo at Ferrari and give Ricciardo a shot at winning the title.

 

Good driving by Vettel though to finish 4th from almost last, but that's actually one of the reasons I think GP2 is way better than F1. All the cars are identical with the same engines, tires and chassis which makes overtaking like that so much more difficult. Always hate it in F1 when faster, bigger teams find it so easy to make their way through the field. Sad that we don't see GP2 in my country anymore though.

 

As for Hamilton, not the best way to win and make some history, but there you go. A win's a win and he fully deserved it.

Trust me man, Ricciardo is going to Merc, Giovinazzi to Ferrari, Sainz to Redbull but the rest is a mystery!, depends what happens at Williams next year because if they get a top level driver in that car for next year+ Bottas wont be able to go back there.

Edited by elfoam

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Kiffster

Who's Giovinazzi?

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Crokey

Who's Giovinazzi?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Giovinazzi

 

Promising driver, who has done testing for Sauber, he's young at 23, so I'm not sure if Ferrari will gamble that much on him. But if they keep either of the current drivers, it will give him an experienced team mate.

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Kiffster

Seriously never heard of him. Must have missed his only 2 F1 races so far.

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Brown Sugar

I could see Ferrari going with Leclerc as Vettel's teammate in 2019 instead of Giovinazzi, I think it probably depends on which one gets a drive with Sauber for next season. Wehrlein deserves to stay on for another season and I think all 3 of them are definitely better drivers than Ericsson, but he brings the money in which is something Sauber would probably prefer at this point. I doubt the Sauber lineup will stay the same next year.

 

I also really hope Williams decide to go with either Kubica or Di Resta for next season too, Kubica was probably up there with Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso in terms of skill, if he had a good car I think he would probably have won a championship by now. I'd also like to see Di Resta just because he's Scottish but I doubt Williams will give it to him.

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elfoam

I could see Ferrari going with Leclerc as Vettel's teammate in 2019 instead of Giovinazzi, I think it probably depends on which one gets a drive with Sauber for next season. Wehrlein deserves to stay on for another season and I think all 3 of them are definitely better drivers than Ericsson, but he brings the money in which is something Sauber would probably prefer at this point. I doubt the Sauber lineup will stay the same next year.

 

I also really hope Williams decide to go with either Kubica or Di Resta for next season too, Kubica was probably up there with Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso in terms of skill, if he had a good car I think he would probably have won a championship by now. I'd also like to see Di Resta just because he's Scottish but I doubt Williams will give it to him.

It's true they could also go for Leclerc !, but given that Kimmi will surely be leaving next year and that Vettel wont play with Ricciardo again I don't think Ferrari will be going with an existing F1 driver. Kubica or Kvyat to Williams I reckon, they don't really have an other options (I know the people want Kubica) but I can't help but think Williams will go with Kvyat in the end. We will know soon enough. Di Resta isn't fast enough compared to those two (assuming Kubica can still drive pretty good)

Edited by elfoam

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1972

Just thought I'd randomly hop in and say that my brother is a huge fan of F1 and got me into watching some races on TV last season. I'm far from an expert and always thought it's boring as hell but once you get into it, it's pretty fun.

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elfoam

Just thought I'd randomly hop in and say that my brother is a huge fan of F1 and got me into watching some races on TV last season. I'm far from an expert and always thought it's boring as hell but once you get into it, it's pretty fun.

Nothing better can be seen on a TV :!)

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Brown Sugar

If it wasn't for that stupid piece of sh*t halo this would be one of the best looking cars in years.

 

f1-red-bull-racing-rb14-launch-2018-red-

 

f1-red-bull-racing-rb14-launch-2018-red-

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Tchuck

Mann, couldn't they come up with a better design for the halo? Something that actually matches the lines of the car, as opposed to looking like something tacked on at the last minute?

 

Have they given up on the windshields? At least those things had more potential to look better.

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Brown Sugar

I believe they're testing the windshields in Indycar but I think the FIA are committed to the halo at this point. There is a certain area of the halo allocated for adding aerodynamics onto but the teams are most likely keeping that hidden for now, at least until testing, probably for competitive reasons. I can't see it making them that much better looking however, they're always going to be ugly.

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Eutyphro

The halo is a f*cking monstrosity, jesus. It should've been the last resort. Windshields could've been pretty nice.

Edited by Eutyphro

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FukNRekd

Will be interesting to see some of the designs. In a year or two they will likely be more visually and aerodynamically appealing.

 

I hope...

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Crokey

Apparently one of the downsides to windshields compared to the Halo, is that during wet conditions it would get wet and obstruct the drivers view... not that the big plank of plastic stuck in the middle of the drivers view will be any different. So they've mentioned that they would need to install some sort of wiper-blade system.

 

However, they've clearly not heard about hydrophobic coatings which would eliminate that problem. as water would disperse extremely quickly.

 

I get why they want to install a system to protect the drivers noggins, but at the same time the two main incidents that brought this about, Bianchi and Massa, whilst very sad what happened to Bianchi, were very freak in nature, and consider that over the course of modern F1 history such incidents have been extremely rare. I just think a little more research time into windshields would have been better.

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dingodile_r89

If it wasn't for that stupid piece of sh*t halo this would be one of the best looking cars in years.

 

f1-red-bull-racing-rb14-launch-2018-red-

 

f1-red-bull-racing-rb14-launch-2018-red-

That's just the camo livery. Race livery will be revealed later.

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Brown Sugar

Yeah, Red Bull usually use different liveries during testing to hide details of their car from rivals. I take back what I said about it anyway, the new Ferrari is the best looking so far.

Edited by Brown Sugar

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Eutyphro

Though the halo looks ridiculous, I'm starting to get used to it already, and think it gives the cars a unique futuristic look in a way. So I'm kind of flip flopping on the halo.. I just like it when cars have unique strange looking new features.

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