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Dom0803

The topic of warez

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Dom0803

I'm sure this topic has arisen many times before, but I'm going to do it once more with a few personal opinions of my own.

A combination of boredom and interest I do suppose.

 

 

warez

/weirz/ A term used by software pirates use to describe a cracked game or application that is made available to the Internet, usually via FTP or telnet, often the pirate will make use of a site with lax security.

Software piracy is illegal and should be reported to the Federation Against Software Theft (FAST).

(1994-11-29)

 

 

So the first topic that springs to mind, when anyone thinks of warez - is to its legality. Is it permissable?

In short, no, no it is not.

 

Words that are often associated with warez, especially in the media are 'Theft and Stealing'

 

 

Theft

1. the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another; larceny.

 

With this definition, one could quite easily say "I'm carrying nothing away" but we all know this won't stand up in a court of law. The arguement is, singers sing songs, record companies hold the copyright, to purchase the song is to purchase the actual license to listen to the song, and that people who use peer to peer programmes to download these songs, are not paying for anything. Therfore, it becomes theft.

 

 

Now this raises another question. Is warez moral?

Anyone with any morales knows that stealing is wrong and that if you want something in life, you will have to work and then pay for it. Ever since Joe Bloggs created this system of money, this has been a problem.

 

Ofcourse, it is very illegal to steal a car, it is very illegal to steal from someones house and it is also illegal to steal a packet of sweets. But let's face it - downloading a song with a P2P is hardly stealing a car, or breaking and entry, or nicking a mars bar. It's simply that, downloading music.

This is where I believe a whole new category comes in, the category of 'downloading music'.

Because it's not like theft, in any way. Downloading music isn't like walking into HMV, lifting the newest album and walking out the front door. It's a lot more widespread, it's easier to access, there's no real security involved in it - so how on earth can record companies treat it the exact same?

 

One person walks into a shop and lifts a bag of crisps, he then leaves the shop. Bad.

A thousand people walk into the same shop and each lift a bag of crisps. Bad?

If you're one of those people, then for a start there's little chance you'll be aprehended and punished. But does the crime become worse, because you're not the only one at the time doing it? It certainly wouldn't be punishable, not by most police stations anyway.

 

So with that said, I believe that downloading music cannot be as illegal as theft of a CD, because let's face it, everyone with a computer is doing it!

Yes it's against the rules of this forum to discuss where and what you've downloaded illegaly, but let's face it, everybody on the form is downloading illegaly.

In my opinion, there should be completly seperate punishments or none at all for downloading music. It's a consequence of Joe Blogg's money system - that people will always want something for free. It is human nature to want this, and if anti-piracy groups feel like taking me to court because of the crime, then my defence will be 'The act of human nature and therefore an act of God'.

 

 

My third and final point I would like to raise is; Is it enforced?

 

This I can keep fairly short and to the point. I own an 80gig iPod. My iPod can store up to 20,000 songs Quote = Ryan B.

Now, at 79 pence per song, that would cost me a whopping £15,800 to fill it. Do record companies really expect me to pay this amount of money just to make me an upstanding, law abiding citizen? Do they really expect everyone to pay this sort of money?

They have left us with no choice but to download music, because let's face it, it costs them nothing to make it, so why do they require such large profits?

If you were to ask me, I would say that the record companies have enforced the downloading of music, to no cost but their own.

 

 

If they were to recude prices of songs to 10p or less, then perhaps I'd think about it. But until then - they're not getting a penny of my money.

 

 

Thanks for reading.

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Struff Bunstridge
It is human nature to want this, and if anti-piracy groups feel like taking me to court because of the crime, then my defence will be 'The act of human nature and therefore an act of God'.

 

 

Um, my money would not be on you winning that court case, mate.

 

Other than that, I agree entirely.

 

How about this for an idea? Move all music sales back to a non-PC-friendly format, eg vinyl? Awesome. The USB turntable neatly f*cks that idea up, but it's a viable solution if they're serious about anti piracy laws?

 

£15,800?!?

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Toadyd

I think the rule of no warez on the forum is to comply with the terms and conditions of the adverts, and probably to keep in the good books of rockstar and take 2 etc...

 

I accept filesharing is copyright infringement but it's certainly not "theft" or "stealing" - just because people aren't paying for anything doesn't mean it becomes theft.

 

The distinction between theft and copyright infringement is a very important one to make for many reasons, not the least of which is that copyright infringement is handled under civil law, while theft is handled under criminal law.

 

I think it's very unfortunate that the RIAA / MPAA / BPI / ETC... have done such a good job of convincing people that there is no distinction between the two, because i'm pretty sure as far as the actual law is concerned there is.

 

 

File sharing is not theft. It has never been theft. Anyone who says it is theft is wrong and has unthinkingly absorbed too many Recording Industry Association of America press releases. We know that script line was wrong. It was a mistake. We're very, very sorry.

 

If copyright infringement was theft then I'd be in jail every time I accidentally used football pix on Newsnight without putting "Pictures from Sky Sport" in the top left corner of the screen. And I'm not. So it isn't. So you can stop telling us if you like. We hear you.

 

Moving on to morality, i know some people claim "the artists never make any money from CD sales so it doesn't matter if i download their albums, i've been to see them 5 times and got their t-shirt! So taking their album is justified"

 

An interesting insight from one actual artist has stuck with me though -

 

I hope everybody who likes the album will buy it when it comes out; album sales determine whether I keep making albums. (Period. I know there's a lot of hooey talked about tip jars & t-shirt sales and all that jazz, but I have no interest in thinking of our songs as advertisements for our t-shirts.)

 

I think that is a fair point. I download a hell of a lot, i do go to a lot of gigs, but i also have a lot of albums. I'm a university student living off of a loan and i can easily justify spending £50 or so on new music a month.

Most of the time i buy a CD, read the artwork and look at the booklet then put it back on my shelf and virtually never play the CD.

Previously a few albums might live in the car, but thanks to mr. ipod that isn't even the case anymore.

 

In terms of smaller bands, it can be a kind of catch-22 situation as well. If you're a small artist you're not going to be living off

 

I have downloaded far far more than i've purchased, but if something is crap i won't play it again. I'd rather find out if i enjoy something then buy it when i see it at a good price, than just go into a record store and buy far fewer albums not knowing if i'd like them or not.

 

Since last.fm has started to offer full length previews (good idea accepting that deal record companies...) i've now been previewing full songs online and not always downloading an album (if it turns out the preview is crap, or i just want to listen to a few songs and its easier to find them on there than download a torrent)

 

Some of my friends (and my parents) think i'm crazy for buying material copies after downloading the full album in the first place, but i like having a physical copy even if they just look nice.

 

So to answer your question, if you just download music for free and own no CDs (as i know many people who do) i think you're a cheap bastard who should at least show some support to artists.

 

You say they've left you with no choice but to download music, but i think thats a really sh*t argument. Sure there is the choice. You don't have to download music, you can listen to the radio, you can watch it on tv, you can find many smaller bands who want to give their music away for free to get known.

http://www.archive.org/details/audio I expect you can easily get 80gb of content from there which is totally ethical.

If you feel you have to fill every MB on your ipod you're just being greedy. If you don't have 80GB you could have bought an 8GB Nano...

 

Anyway... so i download and buy, i don't mind

a) paying for art

b) supporting smaller labels

 

I know that more people are involved in releasing an album that just the band, smaller artists and labels aren't pouring money away like the large labels might be doing and lots of people are just trying to make a living, and in my eyes paying £5-£15 for hours and hours of enjoyment isn't that big a deal.

 

 

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Dom0803

I completly agree with your arguement of purchasing albums, Toadyd. Theres a local artist who I like, Brian Houston. Lives just around the corner from me and I've been to a gig of his.

He's just starting out, has big ambitions, but in reality he'll probably never make it any bigger than an artist who performs at the occasional party or fundraiser event. Simply because of his genre, other than that, he's fantastic. He's a sort of Dylan folk music guy. Fantastic.

 

Now I'd prefer to buy one of his albums than to download it, because I know that my tenner really does make the difference to his campaign. A tenner towards Death Row Records on the other hand... will not be noticed.

 

I don't think I'm cheap because I don't buy albums. I could rather easily purchase any album I please, but other than supporting the little guy - there is exactly no motivation for anyone to ever stop downloading music.

 

Said RIAA, etc, should simply give up on their efforts. They haven't got a snowflakes chance in hell.

 

 

 

Um, my money would not be on you winning that court case, mate.

 

When someone comes to sue me who have tried to sue a little girl and a dead woman, I really won't be terribly afraid with my 100% successful family barrister

 

and 20,000 * 0.79 = 15,800

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Struff Bunstridge

Yeah, I got the maths, thanks Dom. I was just astounded at the figure. I never thought of it like that.

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GM Dude
I'm sure this topic has arisen many times before, but I'm going to do it once more with a few personal opinions of my own.

A combination of boredom and interest I do suppose.

 

 

warez

/weirz/ A term used by software pirates use to describe a cracked game or application that is made available to the Internet, usually via FTP or telnet, often the pirate will make use of a site with lax security.

Software piracy is illegal and should be reported to the Federation Against Software Theft (FAST).

(1994-11-29)

 

 

So the first topic that springs to mind, when anyone thinks of warez - is to its legality. Is it permissable?

In short, no, no it is not.

 

Words that are often associated with warez, especially in the media are 'Theft and Stealing'

 

 

Theft

1. the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another; larceny.

 

With this definition, one could quite easily say "I'm carrying nothing away" but we all know this won't stand up in a court of law. The arguement is, singers sing songs, record companies hold the copyright, to purchase the song is to purchase the actual license to listen to the song, and that people who use peer to peer programmes to download these songs, are not paying for anything. Therfore, it becomes theft.

 

 

Now this raises another question. Is warez moral?

Anyone with any morales knows that stealing is wrong and that if you want something in life, you will have to work and then pay for it. Ever since Joe Bloggs created this system of money, this has been a problem.

 

Ofcourse, it is very illegal to steal a car, it is very illegal to steal from someones house and it is also illegal to steal a packet of sweets. But let's face it - downloading a song with a P2P is hardly stealing a car, or breaking and entry, or nicking a mars bar. It's simply that, downloading music.

This is where I believe a whole new category comes in, the category of 'downloading music'.

Because it's not like theft, in any way. Downloading music isn't like walking into HMV, lifting the newest album and walking out the front door. It's a lot more widespread, it's easier to access, there's no real security involved in it - so how on earth can record companies treat it the exact same?

 

One person walks into a shop and lifts a bag of crisps, he then leaves the shop. Bad.

A thousand people walk into the same shop and each lift a bag of crisps. Bad?

If you're one of those people, then for a start there's little chance you'll be aprehended and punished. But does the crime become worse, because you're not the only one at the time doing it? It certainly wouldn't be punishable, not by most police stations anyway.

 

So with that said, I believe that downloading music cannot be as illegal as theft of a CD, because let's face it, everyone with a computer is doing it!

Yes it's against the rules of this forum to discuss where and what you've downloaded illegaly, but let's face it, everybody on the form is downloading illegaly.

In my opinion, there should be completly seperate punishments or none at all for downloading music. It's a consequence of Joe Blogg's money system - that people will always want something for free. It is human nature to want this, and if anti-piracy groups feel like taking me to court because of the crime, then my defence will be 'The act of human nature and therefore an act of God'.

 

 

My third and final point I would like to raise is; Is it enforced?

 

This I can keep fairly short and to the point. I own an 80gig iPod. My iPod can store up to 20,000 songs Quote = Ryan B.

Now, at 79 pence per song, that would cost me a whopping £15,800 to fill it. Do record companies really expect me to pay this amount of money just to make me an upstanding, law abiding citizen? Do they really expect everyone to pay this sort of money?

They have left us with no choice but to download music, because let's face it, it costs them nothing to make it, so why do they require such large profits?

If you were to ask me, I would say that the record companies have enforced the downloading of music, to no cost but their own.

 

 

If they were to recude prices of songs to 10p or less, then perhaps I'd think about it. But until then - they're not getting a penny of my money.

 

 

Thanks for reading.

I really do think there's nothing wrong with

downloading songs, because, like you said,

it's not like going into a record store and

walking out with a new album without paying

for it.

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Ph3L1z14n0
Ofcourse, it is very illegal to steal a car, it is very illegal to steal from someones house and it is also illegal to steal a packet of sweets. But let's face it - downloading a song with a P2P is hardly stealing a car, or breaking and entry, or nicking a mars bar. It's simply that, downloading music.

This is where I believe a whole new category comes in, the category of 'downloading music'.

Because it's not like theft, in any way. Downloading music isn't like walking into HMV, lifting the newest album and walking out the front door. It's a lot more widespread, it's easier to access, there's no real security involved in it - so how on earth can record companies treat it the exact same?

It is theft, simple as that, you are not paying sh*t for someone else's hard work.

 

You should know how long and how much it takes to make a GTA game, do you think it would be right to download it without paying for it confused.gif ?

 

And in the case of music it is also a crime, it takes hard work to be years in a studio recording, and to see your hard work ruined by millions of kids who think they're hands will rot if they touch their wallet.

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Stefan.

I wouldn't bet you if you were in court mate, because it's just a contradiction to say that downloading music is 'an act of God', yet 'Thou Shalt Not Steal' is one of the most important 10 commandmants.

 

Also, downloading music without paying is illegal and is still stealing. If it was illegal to jump off a cliff, and 10,000 people jumped off a cliff, than would that make it legal because it's too many people to handle? No. It's simply immoral to break laws, especially when they're there to enforce stealing.

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The Horror Is Alive

I really love a band called Shiny Toy Guns (they're actually the offspring of Slyder). I downloaded all the songs of theirs I could find off LimeWire, but still felt that I needed some genuine material because they released three albums (We Are Pilots versions 1, 2, and 3) and updated their songs in each. Therefore I bought myself WAP v3, and have listened to it many times. I intend to get WAP v1 and 2 when I can find them, as they have revised tracklists and songs that sound slightly different.

 

I will support a band like STG, because they need the money, and make great music you don't really hear on the radio at all. Until they're as famous as Madonna, or Green Day, or Britney Spears, or whatever, I will give them my money, and enjoy what I get out of it. When they get to the stage where they're as known as the people/bands I've stated above, I will download their songs, because my contribution will not help much anymore.

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Ronnyboy

Well, if there show doesnt go to well I wouldnt start downloading just yet.

 

Must people dont really care about the game companies, the only care about the game. For instanse, they aren't passionate like GTA gamers are about how R* takes there time and they deserve our money. They just want the game for free because they think they are just a ruthless gmae comapny that only cares about money. Same goes for movies, music, and software. The warez users dont give two f*cks about the companies and the workers.

 

But some people love Steven Spielberg, but people download his movies. Why? Like in the above post. They make so much money you think that one download doesn't matter. But when so many people download it you will notice a sales drop. It hasn't got to a point where almost everybody downloads it and makes huge sale losses, but it will happen.

 

The reason people use I-tunes is because it is easy to use, no file changing, and you only pay $0.99. Most people are so dumb with computers, this just seems so easy and reliable. But to the more well bred computer user, he/she could just simple find a torrent, download it, and watch it. That kind of process is confusing and possibly scary to a first time computer user so they waste there money on I-tunes.

 

So warez is usually because they just dont give a f*ck about who made it.

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Ph3L1z14n0
Well, if there show doesnt go to well I wouldnt start downloading just yet.

 

Must people dont really care about the game companies, the only care about the game. For instanse, they aren't passionate like GTA gamers are about how R* takes there time and they deserve our money. They just want the game for free because they think they are just a ruthless gmae comapny that only cares about money. Same goes for movies, music, and software. The warez users dont give two f*cks about the companies and the workers.

 

But some people love Steven Spielberg, but people download his movies. Why? Like in the above post. They make so much money you think that one download doesn't matter. But when so many people download it you will notice a sales drop. It hasn't got to a point where almost everybody downloads it and makes huge sale losses, but it will happen.

 

The reason people use I-tunes is because it is easy to use, no file changing, and you only pay $0.99. Most people are so dumb with computers, this just seems so easy and reliable. But to the more well bred computer user, he/she could just simple find a torrent, download it, and watch it. That kind of process is confusing and possibly scary to a first time computer user so they waste there money on I-tunes.

 

So warez is usually because they just dont give a f*ck about who made it.

Hostel 2 was downloaded through warez about 5 million times when it came to theaters, at 20 bucks the movie entrance, make the math about how much Eli Roth lost confused.gif

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Ronnyboy

True, but there are the rest of America that doesnt know sh*t about this stuff, or knows about it but doesn't want to take the risk. All I am saying is there are people that have a psion and dont.

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Medaphoar

warez is really something to look into. it really is a gateway in 3rd world countries whiches economical status is relatively low and the taxes involved by exporting music and films to other countries are real high. that triples the original price, so why not buy something that is 1/5 of the original price without inflation and taxes?

 

I think thats why there is warez. To bring the merchandise to those who cant afford it, at an affordable price.

 

Of course its wrong. But these companies (Sony Entertainment, Universal, MGM, you get my point.) are extremely greedy and dont half step with the prices of their films and music. If the prices went down, maybe there wouldnt be warez.

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Ph3L1z14n0
If the prices went down, maybe there wouldnt be warez.

Not really, it's part of our popular culture to always not try to pay if possible confused.gif

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Medaphoar
If the prices went down, maybe there wouldnt be warez.

Not really, it's part of our popular culture to always not try to pay if possible confused.gif

not really. people like to buy whatever suits their pocket.

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Ph3L1z14n0
If the prices went down, maybe there wouldnt be warez.

Not really, it's part of our popular culture to always not try to pay if possible confused.gif

not really. people like to buy whatever suits their pocket.

Right confused.gif , so the average middle class person can't pay 20 bucks for a CD? or 60 bucks for a videogame? bullcrap, i sure as hell can, and i don't live in a first world country bored.gif

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Quadropheniac90

Well I often see figures of succesful movies making very much money. Then when looking at warez sites you'll see those same popular movies have been downloaded much more. Doesn't really change the fact they made a whole lot of cash. Most people who download those would otherwise probably not go to theaters or buy the DVD I think.

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Gouveia
warez is really something to look into. it really is a gateway in 3rd world countries whiches economical status is relatively low and the taxes involved by exporting music and films to other countries are real high. that triples the original price, so why not buy something that is 1/5 of the original price without inflation and taxes?

 

I think thats why there is warez. To bring the merchandise to those who cant afford it, at an affordable price.

 

Of course its wrong. But these companies (Sony Entertainment, Universal, MGM, you get my point.) are extremely greedy and dont half step with the prices of their films and music. If the prices went down, maybe there wouldnt be warez.

Exact. Here in Brazil, I think I'm the only person, that isn't insane or really rich, that has a 360 and a wii, and I go even further, without mod chips. A Legal Copy of ANY game can't be found for under R$200-250(roughly US$100-125), wich is a high price, considering that the minimum wage in my country is R$400.

 

Music? Pfft, go dream. A legal CD is like R$50-60.

 

Combine over priced stuff with cheap, fast internet. Yeah, we have a lot of piracy going on.

 

Let's just say, in my country, people want to make quick money, all means possible. There are these two major stores, Fnac and Saraiva, wich sells books, movies, series, games, etc. Anything is based on that, and they overprice everything TOO MUCH. How much is a wii? US$250? It's roughly RS500, but they think "500 bucks for that videogame? What the hell, let's just slap a R$2500 price tag for those bastards". It's just insane.

 

Come on, EVEN BOOKS ARE DOWNLOADED HERE.

 

So, yeah, my country is taken over by warez. monocle.gif

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Medaphoar
If the prices went down, maybe there wouldnt be warez.

Not really, it's part of our popular culture to always not try to pay if possible confused.gif

not really. people like to buy whatever suits their pocket.

Right confused.gif , so the average middle class person can't pay 20 bucks for a CD? or 60 bucks for a videogame? bullcrap, i sure as hell can, and i don't live in a first world country bored.gif

I'm not talking about low taxed countries (like Venezuela, who live exactly like the United States does, spare Chavez.).

 

People like to save money in general. It's wrong, but that's life.

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.AshRemains

Warez, while yes it is not permitted, it isn't going to stop. The goverment in the UK claimed to "Disconnect Internet users connection if they pirate content". Since they said that, I have downloaded GTA:SA, Some Tony Hawks game, and 1GB of music.

 

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Seachmall

 

Warez, while yes it is not permitted, it isn't going to stop. The goverment in the UK claimed to "Disconnect Internet users connection if they pirate content". Since they said that, I have downloaded GTA:SA, Some Tony Hawks game, and 1GB of music.

It was voted against it parliment however it was implemented in France. Its known as the '3 strike plause' or something, there was a thing about it on the radio a couple of days back. They also mentioned something about France trying to implement it into the EU but I can't find anything about it online and it would come down to a vote anyway I'd imagine.

 

Regarding Warez/Torrents in general,

 

If “piracy” means using the creative property of others without their permission—if “if value, then right” is true—then the history of the content industry is a history of piracy. Every important sector of “big media” today— film, records, radio, and cable TV—was born of a kind of piracy so defined.
This is an article I found a while ago and thought I'd post it here, it explains how Hollywood was founded by Pirates (who are now the big-name companies such as Fox) and how pretty much every entertainement industry wouldn't be where it is today if it wasn't for the Warez/Torrents back in the day.

 

It also explains how Thomas Edison was the original pirate.

 

http://www.authorama.com/free-culture-7.html

http://www.medialoper.com/columns/thats-wh...-like-bootlegs/

 

The only way to stop illegal downloads is to legalize it, its how all technology should be, Free.

 

Technology = Information. Information = Power. Power != Governemt/Entertainment industries.

 

^^Thats basically how I stand on Warez although I don't download as I support Artists. If they can get their money from somewhere else (advertising, promotions etc) I would happily download everything and stick my middle-finger up to the corporate world.

Edited by Seachmall

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Yatesyz

I do download software such as Photoshop, I'm sure none of you here actually purchased it because of it's cost.

 

As for music, as it's a more reasonable price, I do purchase the CD's and don't download it. I prefer having the actual CD instead of the music all on my iPod taken illegally. At least if my PC broke and all the songs were lost off the hard drive I would still have the CD's as backup.

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Seachmall
I do download software such as Photoshop, I'm sure none of you here actually purchased it because of it's cost.

 

As for music, as it's a more reasonable price, I do purchase the CD's and don't download it. I prefer having the actual CD instead of the music all on my iPod taken illegally. At least if my PC broke and all the songs were lost off the hard drive I would still have the CD's as backup.

I actually bought Photoshop last week, can't get the Serials for a Mac. Tried EVERYWHERE. Appartently Mac users are too rich to use torrents monocle.gif

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Quadropheniac90

I do buy music DVD's but I just can't be arsed to buy every CD I like. Of course there's radio but that's filled with adverts and not enough good channels.

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Killer.Khan

Well thought out topic mate.

 

I am most likely never going to buy another CD Album from the store again because they cost too much damn money! It's sickening. If artists are in that much of a hurry to get all of these profits only to throw it out the drain on drinking and partying *cough* Paris Hilton *cough*, why should we pay for drug and alchohol addictions?

 

Im not saying stealing is right but stores have blown prices all out of normal proportion. They're charging you twice as much to buy a CD Album of which you can download entirely off of regular P2P networks.

 

 

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Ph3L1z14n0
I do buy music DVD's but I just can't be arsed to buy every CD I like. Of course there's radio but that's filled with adverts and not enough good channels.

If you have a regular job it really shouldn't be a problem, a CD just costs 20 bucks bored.gif or you can pay for napster or limewirepro for 10 bucks and download all you want.

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Struff Bunstridge
I do buy music DVD's but I just can't be arsed to buy every CD I like. Of course there's radio but that's filled with adverts and not enough good channels.

If you have a regular job it really shouldn't be a problem, a CD just costs 20 bucks bored.gif or you can pay for napster or limewirepro for 10 bucks and download all you want.

Yeah, you're right, I won't bother with rent or food this month, I'll just buy those fifty-seven CDs I had my eye on.

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Seachmall
Yeah, you're right, I won't bother with rent or food this month, I'll just buy those fifty-seven CDs I had my eye on.

Sounds like you need to get your priorities in order.

 

If you are struggling to pay for food because you buy CDs what are you doing buying CDs, and what are you doing with Broadband?

 

P.S. I got the sarcasm.

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Struff Bunstridge
Yeah, you're right, I won't bother with rent or food this month, I'll just buy those fifty-seven CDs I had my eye on.

Sounds like you need to get your priorities in order.

 

If you are struggling to pay for food because you buy CDs what are you doing buying CDs, and what are you doing with Broadband?

 

P.S. I got the sarcasm.

If you got the sarcasm, why pick me up on my priorities? My point was that Ph3L1z14n0 seems to think that having a full-time job leaves you with a wad of disposable cash to spunk on CDs, and I was trying to explain that that isn't necessarily the case, particularly for young couples renting a house in the UK, as is my situation. I'm not struggling to buy food, or pay rent, but I could be if I bought all the CDs I wanted. Do you see what I mean?

 

Oh, and a broadband connection isn't really very expensive at all.

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nlitement
I do buy music DVD's but I just can't be arsed to buy every CD I like. Of course there's radio but that's filled with adverts and not enough good channels.

If you have a regular job it really shouldn't be a problem, a CD just costs 20 bucks bored.gif or you can pay for napster or limewirepro for 10 bucks and download all you want.

How does paying for a P2P client make your activity any more acceptable? You have to be 10 to have that logic. Besides, f*ck Limewire, torrents ftw.

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