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http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/02/04/fbi.biometrics/index.html

 

 

FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping

 

CLARKSBURG, West Virginia (CNN) -- The FBI is gearing up to create a massive computer database of people's physical characteristics, all part of an effort the bureau says to better identify criminals and terrorists.

 

But it's an issue that raises major privacy concerns -- what one civil liberties expert says should concern all Americans.

 

The bureau is expected to announce in coming days the awarding of a $1 billion, 10-year contract to help create the database that will compile an array of biometric information -- from palm prints to eye scans.

 

Kimberly Del Greco, the FBI's Biometric Services section chief, said adding to the database is "important to protect the borders to keep the terrorists out, protect our citizens, our neighbors, our children so they can have good jobs, and have a safe country to live in."

 

But it's unnerving to privacy experts.

 

"It's the beginning of the surveillance society where you can be tracked anywhere, any time and all your movements, and eventually all your activities will be tracked and noted and correlated," said Barry Steinhardt, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Technology and Liberty Project.

 

The FBI already has 55 million sets of fingerprints on file. In coming years, the bureau wants to compare palm prints, scars and tattoos, iris eye patterns, and facial shapes. The idea is to combine various pieces of biometric information to positively identify a potential suspect.

 

A lot will depend on how quickly technology is perfected, according to Thomas Bush, the FBI official in charge of the Clarksburg, West Virginia, facility where the FBI houses its current fingerprint database.

 

"Fingerprints will still be the big player," Bush, assistant director of the FBI's Criminal Justice Information Services Division, told CNN.

 

But he added, "Whatever the biometric that comes down the road, we need to be able to plug that in and play."

 

First up, he said, are palm prints. The FBI has already begun collecting images and hopes to soon use these as an additional means of making identifications. Countries that are already using such images find 20 percent of their positive matches come from latent palm prints left at crime scenes, the FBI's Bush said.

 

The FBI has also started collecting mug shots and pictures of scars and tattoos. These images are being stored for now as the technology is fine-tuned. All of the FBI's biometric data is stored on computers 30-feet underground in the Clarksburg facility.

 

In addition, the FBI could soon start comparing people's eyes -- specifically the iris, or the colored part of an eye -- as part of its new biometrics program called Next Generation Identification.

 

Nearby, at West Virginia University's Center for Identification Technology Research, researchers are already testing some of these technologies that will ultimately be used by the FBI.

 

"The best increase in accuracy will come from fusing different biometrics together," said Bojan Cukic, the co-director of the center.

 

But while law enforcement officials are excited about the possibilities of these new technologies, privacy advocates are upset the FBI will be collecting so much personal information.

 

"People who don't think mistakes are going to be made I don't think fly enough," said Steinhardt.

 

He said thousands of mistakes have been made with the use of the so-called no-fly lists at airports -- and that giving law enforcement widespread data collection techniques should cause major privacy alarms.

 

"There are real consequences to people," Steinhardt said.

 

You don't have to be a criminal or a terrorist to be checked against the database. More than 55 percent of the checks the FBI runs involve criminal background checks for people applying for sensitive jobs in government or jobs working with vulnerable people such as children and the elderly, according to the FBI.

 

The FBI says it hasn't been saving the fingerprints for those checks, but that may change. The FBI plans a so-called "rap-back" service in which an employer could ask the FBI to keep the prints for an employee on file and let the employer know if the person ever has a brush with the law. The FBI says it will first have to clear hurdles with state privacy laws, and people would have to sign waivers allowing their information to be kept.

 

Critics say people are being forced to give up too much personal information. But Lawrence Hornak, the co-director of the research center at West Virginia University, said it could actually enhance people's privacy.

 

"It allows you to project your identity as being you," said Hornak. "And it allows people to avoid identity theft, things of that nature."

 

There remains the question of how reliable these new biometric technologies will be. A 2006 German study looking at facial recognition in a crowded train station found successful matches could be made 60 percent of the time during the day. But when lighting conditions worsened at night, the results shrank to a success rate of 10 to 20 percent.

 

As work on these technologies continues, researchers are quick to admit what's proven to be the most accurate so far. "Iris technology is perceived today, together with fingerprints, to be the most accurate," said Cukic.

 

But in the future all kinds of methods may be employed. Some researchers are looking at the way people walk as a possible additional means of identification.

 

The FBI says it will protect all this personal data and only collect information on criminals and those seeking sensitive jobs.

 

The ACLU's Steinhardt doesn't believe it will stop there.

 

"This had started out being a program to track or identify criminals," he said. "Now we're talking about large swaths of the population -- workers, volunteers in youth programs. Eventually, it's going to be everybody."

 

So begins the surveillance era. We will no longer have privacy in our homes or security in our lives. I am continually stunned by people's willingness to support legislature that gives up our privacy to the government. I don't see how the powers that be can continue to convince the population that this serves their best interest, and they can be trusted not to abuse it. This sort of sh*t is scary. 9/11 has completely changed the landscape of this country for the detrimentally worse.

 

We can't continue to sign away our civil liberties and freedoms to this government in an effort to make us "safer". The government is not to be trusted. They have not earned my respect nor my confidence to protect me in dangerous times. The more powers they are given by us, the less our government will look like the democracy we've put in place. They have been allowed to control America through fear for too long. We are not on an upward path nor are we improving. We are on a swift and mighty road to totalitarianism.

 

TAKE THE F*CKING POWER BACK. DO NOT LET FEAR DOMINATE YOUR LIVES AND YOUR VOTE.

Edited by 40ozFreak

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We can't continue to sign away our civil liberties and freedoms to this government in an effort to make us "safer". The government is not to be trusted. They have not earned my respect nor my confidence to protect me in dangerous times. The more powers they are given by us, the less our government will look like the democracy we've put in place. They have been allowed to control America through fear for too long. TAKE THE F*CKING POWER BACK.

I' m with you completely. Deep down I truley hope Huckabee wins, just so i can gather together all of the people who will undoubtedly be pissed off and organize an uprising. I'm talking some project mayhem sh*t. It's like people have completely forgotten what it says in the constitution.

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We can't continue to sign away our civil liberties and freedoms to this government in an effort to make us "safer". The government is not to be trusted. They have not earned my respect nor my confidence to protect me in dangerous times. The more powers they are given by us, the less our government will look like the democracy we've put in place. They have been allowed to control America through fear for too long. TAKE THE F*CKING POWER BACK.

I' m with you completely. Deep down I truley hope Huckabee wins, just so i can gather together all of the people who will undoubtedly be pissed off and organize an uprising. I'm talking some project mayhem sh*t. It's like people have completely forgotten what it says in the constitution.

Huckabee dropped out a couple weeks ago.

 

Aaaand we're back on topic.

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BUT WE HAVE TO KEEP THE TERRORISTS OUT OF OUR BORDERS

 

Edit for Jim:

 

This is awful. Granted, it's in the works and doesn't say a thing about "required fingerprinting/palmprinting/eyescanning", but if this technology is produced, it might not be long until sh*t like that starts popping up. I know for a fact that my fingerprints aren't on file, and I'll chop off my fingertips before anybody tries to take them. Either that or just wear gloves all the time, which would hurt much less.

 

I want to bring up this, "More than 55 percent of the checks the FBI runs involve criminal background checks for people applying for sensitive jobs in government or jobs working with vulnerable people such as children and the elderly, according to the FBI." Considering the fact that extensive background searches are already taken for these jobs, I don't think this sh*t is necessary.

Edited by Moonshield

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I was hoping for a more constructive discussion, gentleman. You can make silly replies in other threads all day.

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HolyGrenadeFrenzy

It seems a little late but we have been expecting this kind of thing for awhile now.

 

The resistance is not adhering to the call.

 

Where the hell is Jerry Brown at this time? Or is there a new puppet for the masses like having several on a rotary election stand........Just wondering. blush.gif

 

 

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I don't personally see a problem with a database like that, we already have rudementry ones on known criminals for fingerprints and DNA. confused.gif

 

It would be a highly usefull tool to catch criminals, boo hoo if they have a way to identify every one who lives legaly in the US.

The big question, for me at least, is how are they going to go about getting all the information? The same way as they get fingerprints seems likley.

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I don't personally see a problem with a database like that, we already have rudementry ones on known criminals for fingerprints and DNA. confused.gif

 

It would be a highly usefull tool to catch criminals,  boo hoo if they have a way to identify every one who lives legaly in the US.

The big question, for me at least, is how are they going to go about getting all the information? The same way as they get fingerprints seems likley.

I don't want the government to have every identifiable piece of information about me to use at their leisure. They don't even have to have proper warrants to search the databases for matches. Your name could come up as a possible murder suspect just because you looked like some homicidal maniac in Kansas somewhere, and you could be a 100% model citizen. This is f*cking bullsh*t. I don't want to be watched everywhere I go. The government has no right.

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Digïtál £vîl

You want some more scary information?

 

I've been collecting news articles and data about stuff to actually write about this type of thing.

 

 

 

Mind Reading Is Now Scientifically Possible

 

New Bill will allow Punishment for Thought Crimes

 

FBI can eavesdrop through cell phone even if you aren't using it

 

New Surveillance Cameras in LA have Gunshot Detection

 

You can watch a video on here: http://cbs2.com/video/?cid=71

by searching "Compton Gun" in the Video Library and clicking on the second video down from the top (titled under the same thing as the link above).

 

Gunshots first, but as acoustic abilities increase, imagine a country where even speaking a certain word out loud in public could get you arrested.

 

edit: I also want to add the official .pdf of the survellience plan by Compton PD:

 

Official Plan document

Some of it includes: Automatic License plate recognition, high definition video cameras, equipped specialty vans that will sit in strategic places around the city.

 

----

 

Just a few things going on that will eventually lead to a police run state where every bit of your personal information will no longer be safe.

Edited by Digïtál £vîl
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Jesus'En'Hitler420

I have so many issues with this I can't even think of where to begin, but this is what sums it up, I think...

 

As much as I hate to say it, and like some of the treasures we have, it would probably be a good idea for mankind to stop trying to progress technologically. I think humans have too much hate, are too scared, and are too manipulative to put any of these technologies that we're developing to good use. Technology, fortunately, isn't good enough to the point where the government can implement these technologies in to daily life, but the constant marketing of current technologies is fueling the flames of identity theft, cyber crime, and all the likes of crime we have seen with microchips, that drive this treacherous excuse of security.

 

Now, the new cyber crime will be against the people who make this country work. You'll be wearing no clothes to the people behind these identification computers. You're naked to them, and as much as you like to think of yourself as an individual, all the people on top think of you as a liability of stealing millions from a company that makes billions. Think they need to just see you either? They already have voice recognition technology. Makes me think of the scenes in V for Vendetta with the big listening vans driving around London late at night.

 

And it will be coming to a country near you.

 

 

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I don't want the government to have every identifiable piece of information about me to use at their leisure. They don't even have to have proper warrants to search the databases for matches. Your name could come up as a possible murder suspect just because you looked like some homicidal maniac in Kansas somewhere, and you could be a 100% model citizen. This is f*cking bullsh*t. I don't want to be watched everywhere I go. The government has no right.

Theres another thing to look at here. There are multiple variables for identification now. Its not going to be just your face; your eyes, fingerprints, and palm prints will be the most defining factors. You would be having the worlds sh*ttiest luck if you look exactly the same as a murderer down to your scars...

 

The government has just as much right to keep track of your other biometrics as they do with your fingerprints. (which I have never heard any body complain about)

 

edit - lol at the brain reading stuff, you have to take the fMRI with about as much salt as a lie detector. I remember watching mythbusters test lie detection once using an fMRI and a regular detector. Grant managed to fool the fMRI.

Edited by Tryst
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HolyGrenadeFrenzy
I don't personally see a problem with a database like that, we already have rudementry ones on known criminals for fingerprints and DNA. confused.gif

 

It would be a highly usefull tool to catch criminals, boo hoo if they have a way to identify every one who lives legaly in the US.

The big question, for me at least, is how are they going to go about getting all the information? The same way as they get fingerprints seems likley.

Accepting what is required of you is what they expect from the masses of sheeple.

 

The eventuality of this is obvious.

 

Slavery through the legislation of all things required to survive and then the likelyhood of thought police and etcetera.

 

Not only is this more than simple paranoia, it is downright viable and the worst part is people will more than comply they will demand it!

 

The control of the people is nearly complete and the methods used by other countries will be rehashed again.

 

"You cry you are free as you go to slavery!"

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Effy in Chains
You want some more scary information?

 

I've been collecting news articles and data about stuff to actually write about this type of thing.

 

 

 

Mind Reading Is Now Scientifically Possible

 

New Bill will allow Punishment for Thought Crimes

 

FBI can eavesdrop through cell phone even if you aren't using it

 

New Surveillance Cameras in LA have Gunshot Detection

 

You can watch a video on here: http://cbs2.com/video/?cid=71

by searching "Compton Gun" in the Video Library and clicking on the second video down from the top (titled under the same thing as the link above).

 

Gunshots first, but as acoustic abilities increase, imagine a country where even speaking a certain word out loud in public could get you arrested.

 

----

 

Just a few things going on that will eventually lead to a police run state where every bit of your personal information will no longer be safe.

Oh crap! Mind reading thats going to be awful, I know I won't be able to stop myself thinking about certain things. sad.gif

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A big problem I have with this whole situation is that the people are incapable of rising up against this. Whenever someone speaks out against the government or questions their motives, they're called un-American or unpatriotic. People that decry these legislative motions are brushed aside by the average Joe Public as conspiracy nuts and ultra-liberal hippies. Somehow the government has turned our inherent right as people to keep them in check as some sort of vile and despicable act. They have actually taken away the one power we have against them. How did we let that happen? Fear.

 

And also, just because something isn't obviously wrong doesn't mean it should be accepted. Just because you can see shining lights of merit in the system doesn't mean the entire thing will work. The government has continuously and repeatedly abused the powers we have given them in recent years, imprisoning falsely accused citizens and going beyond their privileges in surveillance, wiretapping, and spying. It must be stopped. We are relinquishing our lives.

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Now, now, settle down people. As Director of the Forum Bureau of Investigation, I can assure that we have absolutely no intention of doing anything that you all are saying, because it would take serious effort and we're only interested in taking illegal substances and -

 

Oh, you mean the real FBI.

 

All jokes aside, this is the biggest powertrip I've ever heard of. How do they plan on forcing people to give up their prints and such?

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Now, now, settle down people. As Director of the Forum Bureau of Investigation, I can assure that we have absolutely no intention of doing anything that you all are saying, because it would take serious effort and we're only interested in taking illegal substances and -

 

Oh, you mean the real FBI.

 

All jokes aside, this is the biggest powertrip I've ever heard of. How do they plan on forcing people to give up their prints and such?

They could force you to succumb to more detailed identification when you renew your driver's license, or when the feared National ID Cards go into effect, federal subpoenas of medical records, whatever. There are many ways to get the data.

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Digïtál £vîl

 

The government has just as much right to keep track of your other biometrics as they do with your fingerprints. (which I have never heard any body complain about)

There is no law that requires one to provide their fingerprints to the government. You are only required to do so under certain circumstances, including: applying for specific government jobs, and if you have committed an actual crime (not including minor misdemeanors). Both of which are considered unique situations that require them for safety and security reasons.

 

 

Thus the government has no right to keep track of any of your biometrics. Including fingerprints. Unless given an applicable reason.

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Jesus'En'Hitler420

 

 

All jokes aside, this is the biggest powertrip I've ever heard of. How do they plan on forcing people to give up their prints and such?

They'll come to your door, demand your gun first if you legally own one, then your fingerprints.

 

And it ain't easy to say no when they got guns, too.

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Effy in Chains
The government has just as much right to keep track of your other biometrics as they do with your fingerprints. (which I have never heard any body complain about)

There is no law that requires one to provide their fingerprints to the government. You are only required to do so under certain circumstances, including: applying for specific government jobs, and if you have committed an actual crime (not including minor misdemeanors). Both of which are considered unique situations that require them for safety and security reasons.

 

 

Thus the government has no right to keep track of any of your biometrics. Including fingerprints. Unless given an applicable reason.

They could change the laws. If they wanted to.

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The government has no right to demand biometric information. It is of no use to them, and there is no law that states they are entitled to that sort of information. It's bullsh*t.

 

Even if you can't think of a reason why not, can you think of a reason why? This won't make us any safer.

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Accepting what is required of you is what they expect from the masses of sheeple.

 

The eventuality of this is obvious.

 

Slavery through the legislation of all things required to survive and then the likelyhood of thought police and etcetera.

 

Not only is this more than simple paranoia, it is downright viable and the worst part is people will more than comply they will demand it!

 

The control of the people is nearly complete and the methods used by other countries will be rehashed again.

 

"You cry you are free as you go to slavery!"

Again, I don't forsee in anyway the government requiring every man and woman in the US to line up to get their eyes scanned. There is no way it would work with out being forced. Think about it, would the truly guilty who haven't been identified really want to go and show theirselves?

 

Every one here is acting like that the United states goverment has absoute power over the people, if it did you would have microphones and sh*t up your ass 24/7 already. confused.gif Now I do agree with the fact that they have a little to much power nowdays, with sh*t like the patriot act. But we aren't powerless as a nation of people to stop what our government does. We are still a democracy, and if we really wanted to we could revolt like any other country.

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Now, now, settle down people. As Director of the Forum Bureau of Investigation, I can assure that we have absolutely no intention of doing anything that you all are saying, because it would take serious effort and we're only interested in taking illegal substances and -

 

Oh, you mean the real FBI.

 

All jokes aside, this is the biggest powertrip I've ever heard of. How do they plan on forcing people to give up their prints and such?

They could force you to succumb to more detailed identification when you renew your driver's license, or when the feared National ID Cards go into effect, federal subpoenas of medical records, whatever. There are many ways to get the data.

Fantastic. How long until we have to learn Newspeak?

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The government has just as much right to keep track of your other biometrics as they do with your fingerprints. (which I have never heard any body complain about)

There is no law that requires one to provide their fingerprints to the government. You are only required to do so under certain circumstances, including: applying for specific government jobs, and if you have committed an actual crime (not including minor misdemeanors). Both of which are considered unique situations that require them for safety and security reasons.

 

 

Thus the government has no right to keep track of any of your biometrics. Including fingerprints. Unless given an applicable reason.

I already mentioned that, they only will keep this stuff if you do a crime or want somekind of security clearence. Thats the only reason they have my fingerprints on record.

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The government has just as much right to keep track of your other biometrics as they do with your fingerprints. (which I have never heard any body complain about)

There is no law that requires one to provide their fingerprints to the government. You are only required to do so under certain circumstances, including: applying for specific government jobs, and if you have committed an actual crime (not including minor misdemeanors). Both of which are considered unique situations that require them for safety and security reasons.

 

 

Thus the government has no right to keep track of any of your biometrics. Including fingerprints. Unless given an applicable reason.

I already mentioned that, they only will keep this stuff if you do a crime or want somekind of security clearence. Thats the only reason they have my fingerprints on record.

Tryst, they are planning on taking this sort of information for EVERYONE. Not just for people who commit crimes or have government jobs. They can get it very easily as I stated just a few posts earlier.

 

Think of when you go to get an ID/drivers license made. They already take photos of you, there's your eye scan. They could start asking for a fingerprint, and many banks already get a thumb print when you verify check cashings and money wires. For tattoos and scars, those things are photographed at hospitals and jails and could easily be databased for easy reference.

 

There are many ways for them to get this information that don't require them to line everyone up and give them a shakedown. With their $1 billion bonus, it would become increasingly easy for them to demand that sort of info if need be.

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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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