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Canofceleri

Why is Africa so f*cked?

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*Word*

Not enough time to really read the rest of the posts, so forgive if my point has already been stated.

 

Most of Africa, if not all (haven't got the best knowledge of Africa and its history), was formerly controlled by European nations when 'Empires' were still around. The UK had control of several countries such as South Africa, Rwanda; the French held places like the Ivory Coast (officially called Cote de Ivoire or something like that nowadays); Belgium and Netherlands also held several countries in Africa. Pretty much, white Europeans controlled most of Africa.

 

After much fighting/politcal debating over decades/centuries, European nations have moved out and given control back to the native Africans of the numerous nations. Giving control back to a people who may not have necessarily had the best education and understanding of how to run a country (saying this because I believe that many Africans probably were undereducated during European rule and that Europeans were mainly their to exploit their resources or for territorial reasons) is not a good idea, especially in this day and age; even 30-40 odd years ago. Also supposedly a lot of the civil wars and tension in many of these nations is due to rival tribes or something in these various countries.

 

This is not necessarily what I believe, but could definitely be a major reason for the current state of Africa.

 

However countries cannot be f*cked for just one or two reasons, it is definitely a combination of numerous reasons which I would put mainly down to bad management... I guess confused.gif .

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nlitement
White people in history are just more greedy than others. I'd bet my life white people burned it down, every time.

Nice joking there colgate.gif .................right? bored.gif

White people aren't more greedy, only Jews. Hey, why do Jews watch porno being rewind? Because they get off to the part where the hooker gives the guy his money back! Oh!

HAHAHAHA, damn straight, man! icon14.gif

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Ph3L1z14n0
However countries cannot be f*cked for just one or two reasons, it is definitely a combination of numerous reasons which I would put mainly down to bad management... I guess confused.gif .

Indeed, i think that statement needs to be shining on everyone's face when a discussion about Africa comes up.

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RIPER

Africa isn't f*cked up.

lonely reason that you think it's f*cked up, because you're from a white country.

You walk out your home, and see a guy is shopping. it's normal.

they walk out their home, and see a guy's death from hunger, it's normal as you see a guy's shopping.

If Frenches had Brain in 17C, this place wouldn't be like a sh*thole for you.

and about civil wars, there's just one way: removing gun from there.

(also Arabs are behind their civil wars.)

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Forty

I can by no stretch make comments on the status of Africa or why it's f*cked. I haven't followed current affairs in several years because I feel helpless to any cause, and it frustrates me as a compassionate person that so much is going on that I feel is wrong yet have no control over. So, wrong or not, I ignore it. I find there are more and more people that feel the same way I do.

 

Getting rid of guns won't end violence or wars, it will just make those who supply guns illegally suddenly very important people, and also very wealthy and powerful. The mindset to wage war is not one that is fueled by available weaponry, it is fueled by culture and society one grows up in. A perfect example of this is my country, the United States. We have less guns per capita than Canada, yet we lead the world in gun homicide on an annual basis. We are an extremely violent culture, yet less people on average own guns and we have very strict gun control policies for the most part. It would seem that we would have less issue because of a lack of supply, yet people are offing each other in record numbers on the streets.

 

A stark trend that I see in these numbers is that the majority of them are black. Those of you who know me know that I am no racist, but like Cand I am not fearful of speaking candidly about racial matters and trends I see in society, regardless of how they may be perceived by others. I am white, I can't hide it, but I also can't help noticing the inherent violence of popular black culture. America is very different from Africa, yet the black culture here is still very violent and antiquated in its mindset, although 99% of the black people in America have zero ties to Africa. In fact, the majority of the people causing all of the crime and violence in minority demographics weren't alive during the U.S. Civil Rights feuds of the 1960s. Most of them are in their teens and 20s, early 30s. What is it about black culture that fuels unabashed violence and lack of diplomacy? All kidding aside, it's almost as if it's the only way they know how to live in many cases. I am making a large generalization here, and I don't want to be misquoted or misinterpreted in my comments. I know that this does not encompass all of African American culture, or all black people on Earth. I am speaking of the very loud and noticeable percentage of the minority population that sets the standards and impression of their entire race.

 

So....where is all the violence coming from?

Edited by 40ozFreak

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Eddie280

I recently visited Kenya, before the elections and the subsequent trouble. And i noticed that Africa, in that region in particular is very tribal. Everyone is aware of which tribe they belong to and many see them selves as a member of their tribe first and then a member of a country second. Now the tribe system is so engrained on the people that it is how they distinguish everyone. And they laughed when we told them that England doesnt have a tribal arrangement.

 

The recent trouble in Kenya is very much to do with tribal politics with different tribes voting for their own tribal leaders and accusing other tribes of corruption. This has led to the reopening of old wounds and conflicts between tribes which have their roots centuries ago. I think the relative newness of Africa's nations is a reason why these conflicts can cause so much havoc. Older nations have moved away from the tribal distinctions whereas only 130 years ago Africa was very much borderless with tribes occupying their ancesteral home. When European Nations conquered Africa and subsequently gave it their independance they paid very little attention to tribal boundries and merely divided the continent up irrespective of the traditional boundries.

 

This is demonstrated by the more socially advanced nations of north Africa. They have been developing at roughly the same pace as Europe and were settled by many European tribes such as the Goths and the Vandals. However they became part of the European mixing pot and gradually the tribes became to interbred to be of importance allowing for the rise of modern nations.

 

Sub-saharan africa on the other hand was cut off from this and only came into contact with Europeans during the time of Empires and colonisation. And so instead of being regarded as another nation they were seen as savages because they still followed tribal customs which had been done away with in Europe. Individual Tribes had to face off against unified nations. They couldnt compete and Africa became Europes Dumping ground.

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chrisisking
Africa's really bad.

 

Been there about 3 times for a long period of time.

 

This next part may sound racist to many but believe me it's a fact for most people.

As you all know Africa is the worst place in the world for A.I.D.S, you see it's very dangerous there because, often you could walk down the street and get mugged by someone, even if you give up whatever you are carrying, they will most likely bite you, and see the thing is with A.I.D.S in saliva, to get A.I.D.S orally you have to drink like about 10 gallons, but if saliva enters your bloodstream, you could well likely get A.I.D.S. But even worse than that, there are some people who will bite you purely to give you A.I.D.S, they won't even bother to mug you. They do this as they have nothing to lose.

 

so yeah in short Africa is stuffed up.

That is extremly worrying! wow.gif But if I was in Africa and some f*cked up idiot did that to me (and bear in mind I ain't much of a fighter) I'd grab him headbutt him to the ground and f*cking STOP on his head and kick his temple until blood is pissing out of his ears, eyes, mouth and nose!!! angry.gif Hell I got nothing to lose either at that point, just like him/her! mad.gif

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shaboobala

 

I recently visited Kenya, before the elections and the subsequent trouble. And i noticed that Africa, in that region in particular is very tribal. Everyone is aware of which tribe they belong to and many see them selves as a member of their tribe first and then a member of a country second. Now the tribe system is so engrained on the people that it is how they distinguish everyone. And they laughed when we told them that England doesnt have a tribal arrangement.

 

The recent trouble in Kenya is very much to do with tribal politics with different tribes voting for their own tribal leaders and accusing other tribes of corruption. This has led to the reopening of old wounds and conflicts between tribes which have their roots centuries ago. I think the relative newness of Africa's nations is a reason why these conflicts can cause so much havoc. Older nations have moved away from the tribal distinctions whereas only 130 years ago Africa was very much borderless with tribes occupying their ancesteral home. When European Nations conquered Africa and subsequently gave it their independance they paid very little attention to tribal boundries and merely divided the continent up irrespective of the traditional boundries.

 

This is demonstrated by the more socially advanced nations of north Africa. They have been developing at roughly the same pace as Europe and were settled by many European tribes such as the Goths and the Vandals. However they became part of the European mixing pot and gradually the tribes became to interbred to be of importance allowing for the rise of modern nations.

 

Sub-saharan africa on the other hand was cut off from this and only came into contact with Europeans during the time of Empires and colonisation. And so instead of being regarded as another nation they were seen as savages because they still followed tribal customs which had been done away with in Europe. Individual Tribes had to face off against unified nations. They couldnt compete and Africa became Europes Dumping ground.

This is a good point. I notice, for instance, that even amongst the assimilated Somalians I've met here there is still identification based on tribe and often arguments because of it. Then you can begin to see how some of the problems in Somalia started.

 

As I see it, many societies in Africa haven't become accustomed to western-style governments. Historically, almost any country(European or not) that goes through a radical shift in it's government and political policy will enter a period of turmoil. This is what's happening in a lot of Africa. It's still even happening(to an extent) in Eastern Europe after the fall of communism.

 

Imo race should never even be mentioned here. It's a cultural thing. Even the most civilized nations today went through periods of utter barbarism and lawlessness and this was often only a couple of centuries ago. What is race anyway? Pretty vague stuff.

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Swarz

Oh dear lord... there are so many idiots in this topic I don't even know where to start.

 

First of all, learn your damned basics about African politics before some of you morons go running your mouths off. I'll summarise it for you.

 

Government of a piece of land is determined by what's called "Border Politics". A country governs land based on how much of an area they can govern by brute force. It's like in 'ye olde' days when England was ruled by numerous feudal kingdoms, back before (and after) the Roman occupation and such. Nations are only good for their land if they can bring lethal force to bear in its farthest reaches. It's always been the sole determinant of how much land a nation controls.

 

In post-colonial Africa, the powers-that-be decided that they'd allocate land based on a nice, neat and simple (and oh-so-f*cking-ridiculous) grid system. Look at a political map of Africa - see my point?

 

Firstly, the problem was these new national Governments which were left to fend for themselves lacked the resources to extend their control from capitals over what were essentially vast areas of wilderness. Look at a geographical map of Africa - most of it's desert.

 

As a result, they couldn't exert lethal force over this area, or supply the basic social needs of the population. Simple healthcare, education, even registration of peoples which could be managed easily in the capital just couldn't be extended to the nether-regions.

 

Secondly, this oh-so-f*cking-ridiculous grid system failed to take into account tribal boundaries and local claims / tensions. Suddenly a tribe which claimed claimed a large, wilderness area was 'branded' "Rwandan", or "Kenyan", and told 'hey, this is your national identity now. Deal with it'.

 

I've rambled enough, but these were the building blocks for the state failure which led to the rise of tensions across the nations of Africa. And yet, lacking a massive overhaul we still play by the same system. We refuse to recognise the division of Somaliland and Puntland in the horn of Africa which is the most definate sourse of hope for the future politics of the region. We continue to bombard the national Governments of these countries with resources in the hope they'll finally function like Western nations and be able to extend their control over their designated regions.

 

News for the great powers. It doesn't work like that. And there you have it.

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Eddie280
Oh dear lord... there are so many idiots in this topic I don't even know where to start.

 

First of all, learn your damned basics about African politics before some of you morons go running your mouths off. I'll summarise it for you.

 

Government of a piece of land is determined by what's called "Border Politics". A country governs land based on how much of an area they can govern by brute force. It's like in 'ye olde' days when England was ruled by numerous feudal kingdoms, back before (and after) the Roman occupation and such. Nations are only good for their land if they can bring lethal force to bear in its farthest reaches. It's always been the sole determinant of how much land a nation controls.

 

In post-colonial Africa, the powers-that-be decided that they'd allocate land based on a nice, neat and simple (and oh-so-f*cking-ridiculous) grid system. Look at a political map of Africa - see my point?

 

Firstly, the problem was these new national Governments which were left to fend for themselves lacked the resources to extend their control from capitals over what were essentially vast areas of wilderness. Look at a geographical map of Africa - most of it's desert.

 

As a result, they couldn't exert lethal force over this area, or supply the basic social needs of the population. Simple healthcare, education, even registration of peoples which could be managed easily in the capital just couldn't be extended to the nether-regions.

 

Secondly, this oh-so-f*cking-ridiculous grid system failed to take into account tribal boundaries and local claims / tensions. Suddenly a tribe which claimed claimed a large, wilderness area was 'branded' "Rwandan", or "Kenyan", and told 'hey, this is your national identity now. Deal with it'.

 

I've rambled enough, but these were the building blocks for the state failure which led to the rise of tensions across the nations of Africa. And yet, lacking a massive overhaul we still play by the same system. We refuse to recognise the division of Somaliland and Puntland in the horn of Africa which is the most definate sourse of hope for the future politics of the region. We continue to bombard the national Governments of these countries with resources in the hope they'll finally function like Western nations and be able to extend their control over their designated regions.

 

News for the great powers. It doesn't work like that. And there you have it.

Well that is what i was saying about Tribal boundries and inconsiderate European patition at the end of the Colonial era. Why were you saying I was talking out my arse?

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Typhus

Simply put. The people of Africa need us. They need a strong hand to give them purpose and farm their natural resources. Our comfortable lives can only be sustained through conquest. And these people are ripe for the picking. We've tried to help. We've gave them money and they spend it on silly things. What happens when a child is unruly? You punish the child. Well, I tell you that Africa has grossly offended its father and needs to be taken under our wing. In return they get the benefits that our magnificent culture offers, they get a decent Democratic government that we pick and they get those little flags you see people waving at public functions sometimes. In return? We look like the good guys, we get natural resources to keep us sweet and we've got tons of uneducated savages we can ship over to any country we want to obliterate. It worked in the past! At least when we were in charge there wasn't any nonsense. But let the lunatics run the asylum and the only result in anarchy.

They cannot govern themselves. They are incapable. Incapable of even saving their children from starving. People like this can not be expected to decide their own fate and these excuses we offer have run their course. Why, these people still fight with sticks and stones! Our soldiers and mysterious metal flying machines could take back Rhodesia in an Irish minute.

You know that what I'm saying is true. I am infallible. I have never been wrong. Aaron is always right.

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Swarz

 

Well that is what i was saying about Tribal boundries and inconsiderate European patition at the end of the Colonial era. Why were you saying I was talking out my arse?

And where did I say you were talking out of your arse?

 

Your post is one of the few in this topic that is coherent and well-founded.

Edited by Swarz

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Eddie280
Well that is what i was saying about Tribal boundries and inconsiderate European patition at the end of the Colonial era. Why were you saying I was talking out my arse?

And where did I say you were talking out of your arse?

 

Your post is one of the few in this topic that is coherent and well-founded.

lol, ok thanks alot, I just assumed you meant all of the above in your post. Sorry blush.gif

 

 

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Dom0803

I say bring them all to Britain and let them beg, while they're on our benefits system that we pay for and in houses that we build specifically for their needs.

 

nervous.gif O wait, they already do that

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Killer.Khan

Why?

 

1st world countries like America/Canada dumping their share of corperate corruption on them.

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Ph3L1z14n0
Why?

 

1st world countries like America/Canada dumping their share of corperate corruption on them.

There are many answers as it's been said, i wish it was as easy as you say bored.gif !!!

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Stefan.

I don't think it's the problem of the people, but more the governments in power. When all these African countries received their independance, nobody knew who would be in power. Most of the time, the former colonial power helped in setting up a Democratic government; the problem is, most of the government in power were from one particular tribe. One must note that in every country of Africa, there are at least 50 ethnic groups/tribes who all speak completely different languages. When other ethnic groups (especially rival ones) get jealous of their treatment, they rebel by overthrowing the current government and set up a military dictatorship. Yet, because for a long period of time they were under colonial rule and everything was done for them, they're not exactly the best at running governments and don't know how to set up a proper government. And since a lot of these countries promoted complete seperation from their former colonial power, they didn't get help. Therefore, all these problems arise, simply because their governments don't know how to government.

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AbbaZabba

It is really easy for people like us to critisize Africans. When we were born with food, water, shelter and love.

 

I find that most of these posts are extreamly ignorant. Unfortunatley I do not have enough information to form a propper rebutle.

 

I will say this: Look over history, and the people who seem the most "f*cked up", are usually the ones who have been taken advantage of by colonialism/imperialism. Look at the native indians, the middle east, and South America. All of these places have been used by 1st world contries for decades!

 

The reason we all have such ignorant and un-compassionate views, is lack of education. Do you think growing up in America you learn about the Columbian War on Drugs, and the affects on it's people. Or growing up in Britain do they teach you about imperialism, and how Britain has used it's power to ensure the well-being of it's people at the expense of others?

 

These thing are very much the nature of the world. I'm not saying America or Britain is evil. They're just run by humans.

 

To all those of you relating race to inferiority, I beg to differ. I myself am black, but I was raised in a place where I felt comfortable and loved for eho I am. I have experienced very little racism in my life, and so do not hold any resentments. I think if you were to meet me, you would say I'm quite normal. I also think that if an African were born in under the same conditions, they would also be considered normal.

 

My half assed theories like the rest:

 

Humans fight over differences. We use sight above all senses. Africans are black, and therfore have been easy targets for people to rally around. Who is behind them as far as 3rd world countries go? Latinos, natives, indians, and asians.

 

Also colonization tore the place apart. So did slavery. Now that they have their independence, do you exspect them to go from 0 to 100 in a day? South Africa was legally segrageted up until 1994. Was that long ago? The civil rights movment (a huge acomplishment for african americans) was only like 60 years ago.

 

I think it would benifit the world if people could be more compassionate about these kinds of issues. And refrian from adopting view points like The Unvirginiser's grampa:

 

 

"The n****** (black people) were the last for their tail to drop off, Africa has the richest soil in the world and the n****** are too stupid to know how to mine it!"

 

I don't hate anyone for their ignorance. We are all products of our own environment and somewhat of our genes.

 

Peace and love people! Give Africa a chance. And give Africans a chance! Especailly the ones who try to move to better themselves. The responsibility (for Africas f*cked upness) is on all our shoulders.

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Stefan.

Thanks AbbaZabba for pretty much saying what I said. We need to help these people, because without us, they unfortunately can't run properly. As selfish as that sounds, it's true.

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AbbaZabba
Thanks AbbaZabba for pretty much saying what I said. We need to help these people, because without us, they unfortunately can't run properly. As selfish as that sounds, it's true.

I didn't say we need to help them, more like accept them. And yes help in a sense, the one who make it to the "1st world". Africa in it's own I don't no if we should help, or leave alone?

 

I'd again like to point out my utter lack of knowledge on the region. And admit that I had skipped pretty much all of the second page. Which I realise now, has some intelligent posts.

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Quadropheniac90

The people need help there, but 'we' aren't obliged to help them. There's charity for that. Africa is just such a distant charity, you don't know if your money is wellspent. Cancer funds for example are less abstract and more concrete to me, and therefor I'd spend money on that instead of Africa. I also think that either Africa is too f*cked, or the people there should do a revolution or something, all you see them do now (in those Help Africa-type commercials) is sit around and starve... Why should western civilization meddle with other countries anyway? <- from a somewhat selfish perspective.

 

I'm glad people are helping and still have hope for Africa though, even though I'm not and am not planning to. If that makes me an ass, so be it.

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Stefan.
Why should western civilization meddle with other countries anyway?

 

Ask George Bush that; I'd love to hear his answer. But, aparently that's one of the good things to come out of the Bush administration, the fact that he has helped Africa quite a lot. A lot of Bush's money went to Africa, and many people were actually healed by the actions of the administration. There's still a long way to go, but I'd thought that I should point that out.

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