Lounge for The Chain Game: San Andreas

[OrionSR]

It could be the CG jump between two building tops. I don't remember if I cut this one or not (I'm not a fan of jumps the can get CJ killed too easily or have an elaborate setup), but... Parachute from the pointy building to the building to the north with antenna on top, iirc. A Mt Bike should spawn on the roof that can be used to bunny hop across to a rooftop Nevada spawn and score the stunt jump. IIRC, Zoom made videos of the CG stunt jumps, and rubregg made a CG Birthday video that include the new USJs.

 

Oh, I think there's a northbound jump off a trapezoid ramp heading north. You need to split the gap between the buildings, clear the raised driveway, and land cleanly down below. This one is tricky but shouldn't be too tough on a fast bike.

 

Added: Yeah, it looks like both of the SF rooftop jumps were removed from the current starter save, so it must be the trapezoid ramp. It takes a while to learn the correct angle to miss the buildings on either side. I can't remember if leaning into the ramp or pulling back a bit is better for this jump. Leaning in tends to add height, and pulling back a little can help with distance. Usually on a long ramp like this I have better luck pulling back, but you've got to clear the raised driveway to score the jump.

 

Edited June 10, 2018 by OrionSR

[Another GTA Fan]

I've been taking a look at this Chain Game you've got going on here for awhile now, and it's a cool enough idea: Players taking it in turns to complete the game to 100% with a modified save file, however, it seems far too overly complicated for me to ever give this a try.

 

Not sure if I should post here about this, but I would like to give a suggestion, not for the current Chain Game, but for a new type of Chain Game, because I do love this concept you have going on here.

 

Could someone make a new Chain Game system where instead of all the complicated stuff and all the many modifications, it will be the entire normal game, only instead it has certain handicaps?

Here me out, and when I say handicaps, I don't mean things like negative money or uber NPCs. I mean things like this:

 

• 5000 M4 bullets only aka Limited ammo - No other weapon can be obtained, ammo cannot be gained. You just have 5000 M4 bullets from the get-go, and that's all you'll have throughout the game. Once you're out of ammo, you're out. Of course you can experiment with the ammo amount to find out what is the most challenging, while keeping it possible, because there are parts in the game where shooting is mandatory.
• 50% (Or lower) health -  Throughout the entire playthrough, your health maximum does not increase, and the max is only 50% of the starting health you get. If you really want to be hardcore with health, you could do the same as the above handicap; You start with the highest possible health, but there is absolutely no way of restoring health in the game, not even by saving the game. That would be in my opinion the most challenging thing that could be done. I wouldn't even know if that's possible to do, so that would be something that would need testing first.
• Constant wanted level - Another challenge would be having a fixed wanted level throughout the game, such as 2 wanted stars at all times. It would just be a constant 2 star minimum, and you can never have below that wanted level, but at the same time, you can get above 2 stars. If that makes sense.
• Constant ped riot - This one would prove very challenging. Having pedestrians constantly in riot mode. Not sure how some missions like Taxi mission would be handled with this, but I'd crash test it to make sure. Excluding the use of RPG's, though, because that would be overkill.

 

This is something I would like to see, and as it would just be the normal game just with these handicaps, I'd definitly give it a try. My favorite would have to be the Limited ammo thing, and that could be done randomly for each and every session. It could be a 5000 M4 shots for one playthrough session, the next it could be 400 Sniper shots with 3200 Pistol shots. You can mix and match with this one, and as always, you'll never be able to gain new weapons nor refill ammo. It's whatever you have from the get-go throughout.

 

If you consider this, I ask to keep it simple, because as I've said, the current Chain Game in my opinion is somewhat complicated.

 

Also, I'm not saying to replace the current Chain Game. Just have this handicap one as an extra for players that are more suited towards challenge-based games, and I bet it would attract new players. I myself would definitly try it. Just make sure to keep it as simple as can be.

 

I'd be willing to put in the time to test out if any of the above is possible. If not, it would have been worth checking out. I'm not very good in coding, though, so someone else would have to do that, but I'd definitly test it.

 

Edit: Nearly forgot. Some things may have to have exceptions. Such as with a constant ped riot, in missions like Madd Dog, it would have to be disabled for the obvious reason.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Recommended

[OrionSR]

Don't worry too much about the complexity of the current save. Most of the confusing parts about the rules apply to normal saves as well. For the most part, if you play the custom save like you would a normal save then everything should work out as expected.

 

Most of your ideas have to do with custom saves. If your custom save was compatible with the limitations of the Chain Game then maybe it could be used. The (historic) expectation for a CG save is that it is playable without mods. Unfortunately, many of your ideas can't be implemented simply by modifying the save. Also, once a save is in play it's not supposed to be externally modified; many changes that could be done will quickly be undone a few mission later.

 

Since the forum upgrade the GTAModding wiki's have been offline, so I can't point you to reference on what is actually in the save. When I was first learning to modifiy saves I had to abandon a lot of my ideas as we learn what's saved or not. If you'd like to continue this discussion we should take it to the modding forums though. We can report on progress and look for testers here but the details are inappropriate in this topic. And if you want to do it, you'll need to learn to code, or recruit someone who can (code or learn). I'm not actively modifying saves right now, but I might enjoy helping someone else learn the trade. Might, as in someone else does most the work - I'm not getting sucked into coding it for you.

 

Added: If you want a hard challenge, try the 4-star gang wars. These totally kicked my ass when I started; still kick my ass when I return after a long break. The 4-star gang wars were the primary motivation for increasing CJ's armor. I still rely on it to survive, but at one point I felt I might be able to do without.

 

 

Edited June 13, 2018 by OrionSR

[Another GTA Fan]

It's cool I understand. A little confusing on the details, though, as you said most of my ideas have to do with custom saves, but then you go on to say many of my ideas can't be done via a modified save? I'm kind of confused there, either contridiction or I'm not reading right?

 

Either way, I may consider something like that in the future.

[OrionSR]

Yeah, well. I guess I changed what I was going to say because I didn't want to get into the details too much - sorry if things ended up out of context.

 

Your suggestions don't apply to things that would clarify and simplify the rules to improve game play during rounds; it's all about doing something a little differently - modifications. It's always been assumed that the only way to get enough players to participate in the Chain Game is to restrict mods to only what is necessary to make the game work and gain compatibility between players and versions. This basically limits any type of modification to save editing - a starter save that works from start to finish without further modification. With that in mind, specific comments on your suggestions.

 

Limited ammo and weapons: I don't think we can restrict assess to the ammu-nation shop keeper without also restricting access to the shooting range challenge required for 100% completion. The shop keeper is controlled by scripts... maybe we can simply end the ammu-nation thread and not the challenge. I don't think the thread gets relaunched so, maybe. We'd have to gut the map of pickups. Gang weapon can be changed for random gangsters. Peds sometimes get weapons of all sorts. Vigilante can be used to farm ammo. 4 star cops are a ready source of ammo and armor. Many missions force specific weapons on the player. Many pickups are added after the first mission, Helena, Toreno and collectible rewards come to mind.  Most of these can't be adjusted by editing the starter save, but if you did what you could it might have the desired effect of limiting ammo.

 

Reduced Max Health: I think you could start with lower health but I don't think we can stop it from increasing as CJ exercises and completes Paramedic. It would be much easier to reduce max armor. Normal 100/150 after vigilante. CG save has 200/250 (255 max possible). Maybe go with only 25/75. Note: CJ has 176 max heath when maxed out by paramedic on everything (?) except mobile, which has 220. That might provide a wedge for manipulating max health.

 

Constant Wanted Level: I'm not sure, but I don't think the minimum wanted level is saved. Phone calls can't come in with a wanted level, so the mission flow would probably break at Cesar or Tenpenny late in the first LS strand. There's actually quite a few missions that won't work correctly if the script can't manipulate and detect the expected wanted level. We did the best we could to expand on the 4-star tradition by enabling gang wars in SF and LV and unlocking the schools and races early. The supercab in SF is intended for 4-star Taxi missions. And the Broadway at the airstrip is intended for 4-star Pimping, but I don't think anyone has ever managed to pull it off; might be easier in SF. 

 

Constant Ped Riot: Yeah, try this. It should be easy enough to enable on a new game using a save editor or simple cleo script. I'm curious to see what problems you might run into and what we can do to progress to 100% with Riots active until the game is practically over. It'd be the same riot mode as the late game mode - the cheat versions of riot can't be saved, and one version will cause the Madd Dogg glitch. Many issues with side missions can be avoided by doing them outside of Los Santos. 

 

How about - Everyone Hates CJ: Speaking of the Madd Dogg glitch, it's a problem caused by a cheat code the leaves a handful of peds, like Madd Dogg, Catalina, Cesar, girlfriends, drug dealers and vendors of cart stands, hating everybody else. We could try making almost everyone always hate CJ. All the gangs shoot on sight, even the Triads with their AK47s. All cops, hookers, dealers and criminals; they tend to be armed. This too, can be modified easily with the Savegame Editor 3.x.

 

BTW, when I say you'll need to code, it's not all that difficult, or strictly even necessary for anything other than launching threads like the racing scripts and schools. There's a lot you can do with the formal save editors, and I've got a binary template that can edit anything if you aren't afraid of hexadecimal numbers. However, in the long run, once you know what you want to do, it's a lot easier to apply large scale changes with script codes. Most of the codes for save editing are pretty simple anyway.

[Sorviknight]

Hello!

 

Regarding the Import/Export minigame, I was talking to some other players of the Chain Game yesterday and I was told that there is an 'auto-export' feature in the save, which automatizes the vehicle exports when the player approaches the crane.

 

I'd like to discuss about how exactly this feature works and the process that leaded in you deciding to automatize that minigame, since it's kind of a signature side mission to the series.

Edited July 18, 2018 by SorveteQuente

[OrionSR]

The auto-export feature is enabled by moving the spawn locations for the vehicles that spawn only when on the current list to the deck of the export ship. When CJ approaches the location one of the random vehicle spawns and is automatically exported. Leave the area and return to export another vehicle. Avoid flying near the export ship when the list is active; the cut-scene will stop the aircraft.

 

This was originally developed as a joke within the development team. As we learned more about how the save, scripts and data files interact with experimented with interesting ways to manipulate the save. rubregg was a big fan of the weird and unusual and decided to implement the auto-export feature in a special round. (At the time he was reworking the save between each round.) The auto-export feature proved to be quite popular at the time and was retained as a regular part of the custom CG saves. 

 

The main advantage was reducing how the rounds consistently stalled near the end - few players wanted to complete this mission. Another advantage is that it frees up garage space for collecting special vehicles where previously players would try to store the export vehicles and wonder where they disappeared to when the mission finally became available. Extra garage space also meant we could seed more unique vehicles into the garages. Also, we put a lot of effort into reworking the garages to allow parking on rooftops, a dock garage, III and VC bomb garages, and tweaking impound zones, so we were motivated to make the garages more useful. 

Edited July 18, 2018 by OrionSR

[MrMateczko]

Since this is not a speedrun, and for all 30 vehicles, R* put a fixed spawn for them, there's no real reason to keep the export vehicles in garages.

At this point in the game, Las Venturas is opened, and there's nothing preventing you for grabbing the Maverick at SF airport, fly to the vehicle's location, and drive it back to the SF docks.

If it's tedious for players to drive back to docks, well, I don't think making everything passable in 10 seconds is a good solution, just because players get bored is a good idea. Bored is an individual thing though.

With me and more new-ish players joining recently, there's no fear of the rounds being stalled, and I wish it will stay that way for the foreseeable future.

I can't really see all 30 vehicles taking more than three hours doing in the normal way with no parked cars beforehand.

I actually wanted to do the exports regular way in the SA Chain Game before, but it's not fun the way it is now, at least for me.

[Sorviknight]

1 minute ago, MrMateczko said:

I actually wanted to do the exports regular way in the SA Chain Game before, but it's not fun the way it is now, at least for me.

I want to highlight this line by MrMateczko and say that I also wish exports worked regularly in the Chain Game.

 

I do understand your point in the rounds being stalled near the end, but I also think a major side mission like this should remain normal as it is. And yes, all vehicles (or at least the majority) have set locations once they are available to export, so it shouldn't be a hard task to do. Maybe doing a rule where it restricts the number of vehicle exports per turn motivates the players more to perform this minigame regularly in their turns.

[OrionSR]

I've been disappointed in how the auto-exports eliminates the need for the special spawn locations for these vehicles. One of the earliest efforts in the development of the custom saves was to 'nudge' all the spawn points for vehicles with spawn conflicts. The Hunter/Levi and Bike School rewards are obvious but there were also a lot of issues with the export vehicles. Each conflict was resolved by moving the vehicle slightly, except the Sanchez in Angle Pine was moved to Catalina's because there's already a Sanchez spawn in Angle Pine. An early goal was to help players learn the locations of these limited spawn vehicles - that was part of the motivation of enabling them early and preventing them from unspawning.

 

I'm happy to discuss the history of the custom save and why certain decisions were made, but as I've mentioned several times recently, there are no plans to modify the current save. May I suggest a normal save? Or perhaps someone would like to start over on a new custom save?

[C_h_e]

Just dropped by to say hi.Been a long time since I played in the chain game, hope to play a bit now that I´ve some more time

[123robot]

Hi! Great to see you back playing the game! It certainly does seem to have been a while based on your post history, wow! Very cool to see a veteran player like yourself return after so long. 

[JAJ]

Hey C_h_e good to see you back playing along! We've got a few more changes in the save file for you to discover and we've got a GREAT bunch of players tearing through the missions.

[Mahdi04]

Is there a way to convert a save file from 2.0 to 1.0 ? Because I play on 1.0 vers and sometimes I see players post 2.0 save files that makes my game crash for some reason

[123robot]

6 minutes ago, Mahdi04 said:

Is there a way to convert a save file from 2.0 to 1.0 ? Because I play on 1.0 vers and sometimes I see players post 2.0 save files that makes my game crash for some reason

 

Yep, you can convert them! V1 and V2 saves aren't compatible so you have to convert it to your script version to be able to use it. When you download a save from the GTASnP site, check if, under save information, Script/SCM Version says v1. If it doesn't, then you need to convert it to your version.

 

There will be a section that says 'Modifications' just above where you would download the save. If you click that, it will expand an additional menu, where you'll find a drop box next to 'Script/SCM Version'. Click that and select v1. It is VERY important that you only adjust the script/SCM version to match your version - do not adjust any of the other settings under the 'Modifications' section or it could cause problems with the save. Once you have done this, you can then download the save as normal, except now it will be modified to use the version that you are using and it should run fine. Hope this helps!

Edited July 26, 2018 by 123robot

[Mahdi04]

1 hour ago, 123robot said:

 

Yep, you can convert them! V1 and V2 saves aren't compatible so you have to convert it to your script version to be able to use it. When you download a save from the GTASnP site, check if, under save information, Script/SCM Version says v1. If it doesn't, then you need to convert it to your version.

 

There will be a section that says 'Modifications' just above where you would download the save. If you click that, it will expand an additional menu, where you'll find a drop box next to 'Script/SCM Version'. Click that and select v1. It is VERY important that you only adjust the script/SCM version to match your version - do not adjust any of the other settings under the 'Modifications' section or it could cause problems with the save. Once you have done this, you can then download the save as normal, except now it will be modified to use the version that you are using and it should run fine. Hope this helps!

Oh I get it now ... Damn you guys are very helpful. Thanks !

[JAJ]

Mahdi04 Please have another look at the Rules. You did a named mission and 5 Races on your last turn.

 

Tournament Races

With the exception of the 3 races that must be done within the storyline ("Lowrider Race" & "Badlands A/B"), all races are exempt from the 'one named mission rule'. Unlike the other exceptions, you cannot do as many as you like though:

- You can do one race if you also do a named mission.

- You can do up to three races if you do not do a named mission as well.

 

It's the Chain Game policy to forgive a new player's first 'mistake', so this is a warning and your next 'mistake' will result in a voided turn.

Edited July 26, 2018 by JAJ

[Mahdi04]

I messed up , sorry , won't happen again. Thank you.

[123robot]

The above warning should also extend to Chyea, who coincidentally made the exact same error in his recent turn. It's apparently a rule that is very easily missed, so people really need to make sure they're familiar with it.

[Chyea]

I'm sorry about this, it won't happen again. I will pay better attention to the rules.

[JAJ]

Looks like I need to move/copy the bit about the Tournament Races up into the Rules section.

Both guys have been PM'ed and coached to have another look at the rules and warned that another 'mistake' will nullify their turn. I'm trying to keep this a friendly game & I'm sorry the Races have gone 'tits-up' for the other players.

[JAJ]

On 4/27/2018 at 12:39 PM, OrionSR said:

 

The IPL flags are used by the game to turn on or off large groups of objects - whole neighborhoods, usually. It's how San Andreas was able to avoid the load screens between island used in Vice City and III, the previous games built on the GTA3 engine. Some of these flags control object groups that get turned on or off during the game. The barriers to SF and LV are the most obvious and have the biggest impact on the Chain Game. The other flags control Truth's Crops, the crack factory in SF before it's destroyed during YKBB, and the floor behind the smash wall at Smoke's palace in End of the Line.

 

This is important to the Chain Game because v1 and v2 use different flags to mark the objects - sometimes sharing the same flag to control different objects. Some of the odd rules from the Chain Game are to manage all of these flags for players of either version. For normal saves, or older CG saves, players from one version or the other would need to complete the map changing missions, Green Sabre, Are You Going, and YKBB.

 

The current CG save doesn't have any barriers, and the other flags have been set so the IPL version should matter, so as long as nobody "converts" the IPL flags with SnP it doesn't make a difference who completes any mission.

 

Finally, the IPL flags are dependent on GTA3.IMG, a multi-gig data archive. As far as I know this file is never included in "downgrade" mods. A v2/Steam player can downgrade their exe so they can use mods, and downgrade their scripts to be compatible with older saves, but nobody downgrades their IPL version.

It's time to re-visit this post.
The main message about this post is when you download your save file:
DO NOT TOUCH THE IPL FLAGS VERSION BOX!
LEAVE IT SET AT UNMODIFIED!

Edited July 30, 2018 by JAJ

[OrionSR]

On 7/30/2018 at 12:37 PM, JAJ said:

The current CG save doesn't have any barriers, and the other flags have been set so the IPL version should matter, so as long as nobody "converts" the IPL flags with SnP it doesn't make a difference who completes any mission.

This should read, "so the IPL version should not matter." (fixed original post)

 

SnP does not do a proper "conversion" by reading one version's flag and converting it to the other. Instead, it will simply set the appropriate flags for the current progress level in the save. Converting the IPL version before YKBB will add barriers where there were none before. Do not convert the IPL version. Please make the appropriate adjustments to your SnP preferences and save the settings.

 

CG players should report any barriers they see in the CG Lounge.

Edited August 6, 2018 by OrionSR

[Sorviknight]

Well, in the current save, the barriers are appearing as they would in regular gameplay.

[OrionSR]

Thank you. And yes, we know. The observation had prompted the current response. Players from CG126 and CG127 are being notified via PM if they were responsible for the error. 

 

Assuming that no one else converts the save before YKBB, a v1 player should complete YKBB to properly remove the barriers.

[Veigar]

o/

 

General question - when it comes to "legal" mods, the opening post states that NO mod of any sort should be used, but reading some past posts here I see that things like SilentPatch and a few other "harmless" modifications are legal. I'm just slightly confused as to what we'd consider legal. I guess it'd be a start to say no CLEO scripts would be allowed period - but my main question lies in knowing which mods for certain are legal. I haven't taken any turns in a while myself, so it's not like I'm concerned that I screwed anything up or anything, I'm just curious.

Thanks for addressing my question to anyone who does. Love the SA chain game. I should really go back to taking turns, but I've been caught up in testing things up and just been focusing on other work. 

[OrionSR]

The SilentPatch is the only approved modification. I have tested this mod and have ongoing consultation with Silent on any potential issue.

 

Graphics mods and other tools designed to make the game look better or be more compatible are being ignored at this point. If problems pop up we will deal with it at the time and players won't be banned long term. However, players may be asked to sit out for a while as we evaluate the situation and isolate the problem.

 

Speaking of problem mods: There might be an issue with Project 2DFX and IPL flags. This is something we are currently tracking. Are any CG players using 2DFX on the custom CG saves? 

 

Cleo is prohibited. Cleo doesn't cause any issues by itself but the scripts can cause severe damage to the save or provide players with an unfair advantage.

 

Modifications to things like AR_Stats, Handling.cfg, IPL files and most other data file mods are prohibited. Often the problem isn't about causing damage but even the simplest mods can leave suspicious traces in the save.

 

If you aren't sure then please ask.

[Veigar]

I use Project 2DFX on a different exe installation. It's supposed to increase draw distance, add LOD corona effects, works as a limit adjuster, fixes flickering, and increases object limits. I'd say I'm fairly experienced with this mod. Maybe the part about increasing object limits clashes with something. I could maybe play around with a test Chain Game save with this mod enabled to see if I come across anything worth talking about.

 

BTW, this mod is something that comes with a San Andreas downgrader. Maybe someone used this and ticked the box.

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2018 by Veigar

[OrionSR]

That's a nice list of the specific mods I'd like to approve if the proper testing and consultation could be achieved. 

SilentPatch is officially approved, and I suppose that also approves the ASI Loader as I believe it or another loader is required.

 

The Downgrade patch is so widely used among CG players without issues that I have little concern. (But may be indirectly associated with the IPL glitch.)

 

I use a Widescreen patch, not sure which. I can't see how these could influence the save or fair play. AG and Wesser would write the best tools.

 

GInput should probably be approved, need a proper testing strategy.

 

SkyGFX... I think I must be getting this confused with a fairly destructive mod - something about adding objects, iirc. SkyBox, maybe? I don't know enough about this mod to offer any comment.

 

Project 2DFX? Please verify that the v2 flag for Carter has not been removed, and that v2 Crack is enabled on pre-YKBB saves. Forfeit if you need to; don't introduce soft ground at Helena's farm or soft buildings along the Old Strip. Please report any errors in the lounge. Reports of error free use is also appreciated. (I may be completely wrong about this mod's association with the IPL glitch; confidence is very low. Keep an open mind until test results are available.)

The other mods would seem to be inappropriate for CG play. Consider them to be prohibited during CG rounds pending a compelling reason.

[Veigar]

SkyGFX is a plug-in that replicates the console graphics with the sky.

 

 

The downgrader has an option to turn off the blur effect if someone wants to do that.

 

Also, I've done several SA playthrough with all of these downgrader mods on, I didn't get any issues. However, I dunno if the CG save will behave the same as a normal save, so I'll have to look into that soon. 

Edited August 21, 2018 by Veigar