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Mongo_Slade

Cannabis vs Salvia

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Mongo_Slade

Cannabis opposed to Salvia Divinorum, is a great topic to debate on. Cannabis is not like an acid trip, or a mild acid trip, unlike Salvia. Salvia user's go into a laughing frenzy like some sort of Trippy High. When marijuana leaves you with a different effect depending on Sativa's and Indica's, mostly like a Couch Lock type of High or a Soaring kinda High. Salvia can be bought over the internet in bulk. Also it is legal to distribute this, posses this, and grow this, in 48 different states across America. What are you guy's views on this. monocle.gif

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Ph3L1z14n0

The power of the media my friend bored.gif

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TheRoper

SHHHH! Salvia's only legal cuz hardly anyone knows what it is! sneaky2.gif

 

But I do agree.

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SyphonPayne

I used to use Salvia, I got to say it's not all that great and I much prefer cannabis because I don't want to trip I just want a good buzz.

 

Plus I don't know how safe Salvia is compared to Cannabis, and really it's got more weird side effects than plus sides IMO.

 

Well I used to trip on acid quite a bit but I guess you could say I got out of the tripping/speeding/drunk scene and just the buzz scene (little bit o alcohol, and/or cannabis is all I need now biggrin.gif . ) But I prefer Cannabis anyday over just about anything.

 

EDIT: But it just goes to show how retarded the American (and probably many other country's) government is. They let tobacco kill so many, they let alcohol continue to kill many, Salvia is legal which is a mild acid trip, but oh wait. Cannabis is illegal? Why? Who the hell knows.

Edited by SyphonPayne

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Ph3L1z14n0

Maybe they both cause hallucinating effects, but it doesn't mean they are equally harmful, cannabis really f*cks you up, maybe salvia doesn't so much

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Im Rick James B**ch!
Maybe they both cause hallucinating effects, but it doesn't mean they are equally harmful, cannabis really f*cks you up, maybe salvia doesn't so much

exaggeration. Of course extended use is not good for you, but it hardly warrants the phrase "really f*cks you up".

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Ph3L1z14n0
Maybe they both cause hallucinating effects, but it doesn't mean they are equally harmful, cannabis really f*cks you up, maybe salvia doesn't so much

exaggeration. Of course extended use is not good for you, but it hardly warrants the phrase "really f*cks you up".

Extended use does f*ck you up, it attacks hypocampian (hope it's the right translation) cells, which in turn makes you have really sh*tty short term memory, among other problems such as sterility (once again i hope it's the right translation) and erectile dysfunction.

 

So screw those hippie myths that pot is harmless.

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jelly

So what if it's harmful or not? Alcohol is harmful, tobacco is harmful, there are many harmful things out there. Why should government legislate against something because it is harmful to the person making the choice to use it?

 

Legalise and deregulate every drug. If someone wants to use something with or without minding the consequences, then that's their business. The DEA is one of the most oppressive LE bureaucracies in the U.S., it's time to dismantle it.

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nlitement

Plus, you'll eliminate illegal drug trade. It's not like it's hard to find drugs [illegally] anyway, so it's not like people will rush to the pharmacy to get heroin.. hope you get my point.

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Canofceleri

All drugs should be legal, it's a no-brainer that nearly all of the problems we have with them are because they're illegal (drugs cut with lethal sh*t, street violence, methlabs existing and blowing up in kid's faces, black market economy, etc.). The world of drug taking would be much safer and it wouldn't tie up the legal system. Also, we know from looking at other more lax countries that more problems will not come of it. In Spain pot is legal all around and they're doing very well right now, better than nearby Italy even.

 

Salvia is a f*cked up drug. I've done it five times and it's been completely different each time. It's a drug of confusion and severe incapacitation. It can sometimes be beautiful and freeing and at other times extremely intense and frightening. I will never do it again because even though it has an extremely short duration, the last time I did it I lost complete sanity for about five minutes. It's really f*cked up when you can't talk and you feel like something is inside you, trying to come out of your pants via zipper and escape your mouth. One time I was listening to Animal Collective in the car and the dashboard was taunting me.

 

I've done shrooms; I've taken Xanax, hydros, pot, and alcohol all at once and I've never experienced anything that comes close to being as intense as some of the experiences I've had with salvia. It can't be explained.

 

It shouldn't be illegal though, nor should pot.

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Ph3L1z14n0

Maybe you people are mature enough to understand when and how to consume drugs, but not the rest of the world, not the rest of society.

 

And personally in my own opinion we should be worried about REAL consecuences of drug legalization, you people talk about it like if there wasn't gonna be any problem, we f*cked up and legalized alcohol, and what happened??? we got mediocre solutions for alcoholic people and a new kind of cancer (cirrosis), and why is alcohol still a powerful bussiness??? because in a society that supports CONSTANT CONSUMPTION is where problems like these happens.

 

If drugs were legalized, the private sectors and corporations would make millions of dollars getting people high, and thus it would go insanely out of control.

 

Congratulations, you got the drug dealers out, now you gut drug bussinesmen...

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Canofceleri

The only thing making alcohol illegal did was increased the number of people who drank exponentially and empowered the American Mafia. I seriously doubt everyone would go crazy and the world would come to an end... after a couple years everything will set nicely into place and it wouldn't even be a big deal anymore.

 

Plus, if drugs were legal we'd know much more about them and it would be much safer. At the end of the day, most people are going to get f*cked up one way or another, it is hypocritical to have only one drug legalized when that one drug is just as dangerous. I don't like alcohol at all, especially lately... but I still like to relax and get away a little, why the f*ck should I be deemed a criminal just because I prefer one feeling over another?

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jelly

 

Maybe you people are mature enough to understand when and how to consume drugs, but not the rest of the world, not the rest of society.

 

And personally in my own opinion we should be worried about REAL consecuences of drug legalization, you people talk about it like if there wasn't gonna be any problem, we f*cked up and legalized alcohol, and what happened??? we got mediocre solutions for alcoholic people and a new kind of cancer (cirrosis), and why is alcohol still a powerful bussiness??? because in a society that supports CONSTANT CONSUMPTION is where problems like these happens.

 

If drugs were legalized, the private sectors and corporations would make millions of dollars getting people high, and thus it would go insanely out of control.

 

Congratulations, you got the drug dealers out, now you gut drug bussinesmen...

If drugs were legal, the problems would no longer be hidden under a rock, the market and the community would be out in the open and those charities and organisations who are concerned would have a much easier time helping drug addicts.

 

And I never said everyone were mature enough to consider drug use properly; I said that what other people do is their business, not my business, and definitely no proper area for government to meddle.

 

If you want government to ban things that are unhealthy because it's 'better for society' you're going down a very slippery slope. All you need to do to realise the idiocy of today's 'drug war' is to look at alcohol prohibition, and how many problems that solved.

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Ph3L1z14n0
If you want government to ban things that are unhealthy because it's 'better for society' you're going down a very slippery slope. All you need to do to realise the idiocy of today's 'drug war' is to look at alcohol prohibition, and how many problems that solved.

Well, certainly government banning is uduslly never a good idea, but you need to understand that people that work at DEA are just as you and me, they believe it's their job and that they are doing good, are any of us doing any better to solve the drug issue???

 

Well, legitimazing alcohol as a said only fueled corporations and the private sector to make billions of dollars out of the simple fact that we as people are conditioned to consume, i can understand how legalization would be good in terms of information, but in a world were people believe that pleasure is one of the most important "needs", how can you possibly feed that belief even more!!!

 

Legalization in the future would be no different than McDonalds or any other company profiting from the conditioned desire to consume, THAT is what i am against.

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K^2
Well, legitimazing alcohol as a said only fueled corporations and the private sector to make billions of dollars out of the simple fact that we as people are conditioned to consume, i can understand how legalization would be good in terms of information, but in a world were people believe that pleasure is one of the most important "needs", how can you possibly feed that belief even more!!!

 

Legalization in the future would be no different than McDonalds or any other company profiting from the conditioned desire to consume, THAT is what i am against.

I don't think you are against drug legalization. You are against capitalism, buddy. You should apply for immigration to China. They will accept you with open arms and give you some nice propaganda desk job.

 

I'm all for some degree of regulation of dangerous drugs*, but complete prohibition is bad. At very least, drugs need to be decriminalized.

 

 

* I have the same opinion on that as with gun control. There are people who shouldn't be allowed to carry guns, but these are the same people who should be institutionalized or be under guardian's constant care. If a person is too dangerous to have a gun, he is too dangerous to carry a pocket knife or drive a car.

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jelly

 

If you want government to ban things that are unhealthy because it's 'better for society' you're going down a very slippery slope. All you need to do to realise the idiocy of today's 'drug war' is to look at alcohol prohibition, and how many problems that solved.

Well, certainly government banning is uduslly never a good idea, but you need to understand that people that work at DEA are just as you and me, they believe it's their job and that they are doing good, are any of us doing any better to solve the drug issue???

 

Well, legitimazing alcohol as a said only fueled corporations and the private sector to make billions of dollars out of the simple fact that we as people are conditioned to consume, i can understand how legalization would be good in terms of information, but in a world were people believe that pleasure is one of the most important "needs", how can you possibly feed that belief even more!!!

 

Legalization in the future would be no different than McDonalds or any other company profiting from the conditioned desire to consume, THAT is what i am against.

Warrantless surveillance, warrantless search and seizure, murder, burning farms in foreign countries..

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I could do a hell of a lot better than the DEA.

 

They may be ordinary people who are just 'doing a job'. That's the Nuremberg defense. It didn't work back then, and it won't work now. If you're doing something plainly illegal and unconstitutional, you cannot hide behind your g-man badge and claim you're just 'doing your job' and that it's 'for the common good'. It's pure bullsh*t, and thankfully people are beginning to see that.

 

I understand that you are against consumerism for whatever reasons you have for that - do you enjoy government use of force to halt consumerism? Consumerism and greed drives this world, if it wasn't for consumerism, greed and the endless want there would be no jobs, no technological progress and no incentive for the economy to grow the way it does. Greed and consumerism breeds prosperity. As Gordon Gekko said in the movie Wall Street, greed is good.

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Canofceleri

Well said, jllr.

 

The bottom line is, there will be problems with any system-- we need to go with the system where the problems are less severe and out in the open and easier to control. Running around banning everything is nonsense. I'm an animal goddammit, it's my right to serve my inclinations toward inebriation whether it's "legal" or not and I will and have suffered the consequences of that choice. It's rubbish though.

 

Alcohol is legal... cigarettes are legal... guns are legal to own... we can't ban something just because it has the capacity to be abused and misused. Jesus, then we couldn't drive, even eat with a fork. By far most people who use drugs are low-key about it and don't go around acting a fool (most times), much less kill or rape. Abuse is a problem, but we're not very well going to ban Twinkies are we?

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HolyGrenadeFrenzy

Prohibition of plant and fungi is lame. It is my opinion that it is even more lame than the legislation of sexual positions or book banning of literature such as Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury or 1984 by George Orwell..

 

The motives for such prohibition are usually done in the name of "protecting the public" but if you follow the chain of dominoes the effect is damn good grounds to use Dialectic by Hegel when examining nearly any legislation, political manuever and to some degree any media coverage what so ever.

 

Dialectic says to control the masses that first you create a problem. (any problem will do usually)

 

Thesis= "The Drug Problem" is relatively bad for most people whom use them.

 

Yet the oppurtunity could easily be seen as a means to get around other socio-econimic desires of those whom control most of the power and wealth in the world. These materials have productive uses that we could gain from if we got rid of them yet people have them everywhere.

 

Then you create something to counter the problem.

Antithesis= These drugs are dangerous! They will hurt you and your children and maybe even kill you! = IN OUTRAGE! Someone should do something to protect us and save our children! Or the drugs will destroy any hope we have of survival and productivity. Media floods the community with fear, panic and hysteria demanding support of the government to stop the dangers of drugs. angry.gifcry.gif .

 

Lastly you supply your "Miracle Solution" that is really what you are trying to accomplish in the first place. Your real agenda is obscured by the previous things and the solution does seem to work....for now!

Synthesis= We shall prohibit these plants and fungi from the possession of the public especially the private individual and save you all!

 

(From yourselves for a small fee.)

Thus the agenda of doing these things is fulfilled and the public will believe it was to fulfill their desires for the most part.....at least at first.

 

These things we want removed for all intents and purposes so we can make a huge profit and then take the property from and cause the ruin of anyone whom opposes us by making them a felon and thus negating their civil rights while also giving us the right to take everything from them and force them to do slave labor. (If we so choose) Now we(the controler) have illigalized these materials we control the other benefits they may provide and can sell substitutes both pharalogical and by products that would otherwise be inferior (from rope to chemical compounds including plastics and fibers not to mention the huge amount of drugs) and we can charge a fortune from the public and they will be none the wiser. This keeps a method for getting rid of your opponents and enemies as well as providing a corner market for materials to fill the gap the prohibition induces

 

Now, I do not use illigal drugs or alcohol. But I have in my adolescence and discontinued not because of the law but because I was no longer interested in them and did not like the affects/effects anymore. So I had nothing to gain from them. Many have difficulty with this I realize and I sympathize yet I will not join the band wagon.....I do not use there fore I am not "defending my drug" One of the motives I have for keeping my perspective of abstinance of use yet for the reform of drug and material laws is based on other things.

 

However I believe illigalizing them through any kind of prohibition has been done before and failed each and every time unless there is another not so obvious gain such as taking the money and property of those "caught" with said things and ect.

 

The reason this fails is simply enough. Anytime you make a social problem a legal problem the social problem gets thrown into the closet because of persecution. Drug addiction is more of a social issue and if dealt with socially and individually can find resolution and normal life can resume by degree.....Even severe drug addiction can not be solved in a criminal court room and they often make things far worse for the people involved.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying that there is nothing wrong with the abuse of drugs so go out and get wasted. What I am saying is that the way to deal with drug problems or any problem for that matter is through communication and sanction over the use of cannabis and other natural materials has other motives other that the danger and potential danger of these substances.

 

Many drugs are real bad news......Crank and Coke just to name a few. I shall lay off saying too much about oppiates lest we start going over where are the worlds morphine has come from. ph34r.gif

 

Mostly though I believe that if you want to do something with something your grow in you back lot or whatever that should be your right and if you want pot in your speghetti then you should be allowed that and your pipe weed of what ever kind you or yours breed and grow for that purpose. I am quite the hobbit about such things and....Frodo LIVES! And shrooms may work better as tea but they taste better with peanut butter. biggrin.gif

 

Funny I remember that after the last decade and a half.

 

-HGF

Edited by HolyGrenadeFrenzy

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Canofceleri

Very true.

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Drizz

Really, it depends on what you want to get out of the use of the drug. I don't know if Salvia affects brain cells and other sh*t the way cannabis does, so my only strongs in it is: money and quality.

 

While weed costs a lot less, it holds you longer and leaves you zoned and just generally cool.

 

Salvia, however, costs about 15$ for one shot (at cafe's here in Montreal, Hightimes for example), but this one shot of it will keep you in a hallucinating trance for about 20-30 minutes.

 

If I had the choice of what to smoke before going to a party, I'd say weed. If I was in my basement with my friends and had nothing to do, for the sake of a trip, I won't say no to Salvia --- WOOHOO LET'S TAKE A f*ckING FLIGHT TO PENISLAND!

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HolyGrenadeFrenzy
Very true.

Are you agreeing with the dialectic or the peanut butter? biggrin.gif

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Brish

Can someone please tell me a good place to find Salvia?

 

Oh, and I'm sorry for not contributing to this topic. confused.gif

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Canofceleri
Really, it depends on what you want to get out of the use of the drug. I don't know if Salvia affects brain cells and other sh*t the way cannabis does, so my only strongs in it is: money and quality.

Don't all drugs involve the brain?

 

At Brish... I've seen it at some headshops, some porn stores, and the internet.

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Ph3L1z14n0
I understand that you are against consumerism for whatever reasons you have for that - do you enjoy government use of force to halt consumerism?Consumerism and greed drives this world, if it wasn't for consumerism, greed and the endless want there would be no jobs, no technological progress and no incentive for the economy to grow the way it does. Greed and consumerism breeds prosperity. As Gordon Gekko said in the movie Wall Street, greed is good.

My real point is that society is nowhere near mature for drug legalization, not us, not the goverment, not the private sector, nor anyone.

 

Dude, no offense, but you need to consider that the only reason why you can argue how good is greed and consumerism is simply because you are in a position where you are not affected by neither, consumerism doesn't screw with you, and neither does greed; what i mean, is that you need to put yourself in somebody else's position to truly understand how BAD greed and consumerism are, certainly not me, but probably somebody else.

 

Consumerism does not create jobs, it creates alcoholics, drug addicts, materialists, pick your favorite.

 

Wall Street is a MOVIE, Gordon Gekko is actually the "bad guy" in Oliver Stone's eyes, i so coincidencially have to agree with him.

 

OOOOOOOOOOOKKKKK...

 

Sorry anyone, i'm misleading the topic, my bad, but in a drug topic i had to get it out of my chest.

 

Back on track, where i live i have never heard about getting high on Salvia, i've known people who've done the usual weed, eucalyptus too!!!, and it's very legal in here, i suppose in USA it's also legal in most states.

 

I also wanted to note that we need to draw the line on how a chemical becomes legal like salvia and illegal like marihuana, what i mean is that you can get high on ANYTHING.......almost, take for instance coughing medicine, Nyquil, and even SPIDER WEB.

 

Most likely the last one is crap, but i got the tale from a friend who said there were people who got high in his building with spider web, one big WTF bored.gif

 

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Canofceleri

Change doesn't come when people are "ready for it". Changes come and change the culture. People are extremely malleable. Nobody wants to stick with anything for two seconds when the fact is that landings aren't always smooth... kinks have to be worked out and changes in the paradigm of thought and behavior do not come over night. But what we would see is progress and a better functioning society in few years to come, and that is what would last.

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HolyGrenadeFrenzy
Change doesn't come when people are "ready for it". Changes come and change the culture. People are extremely malleable. Nobody wants to stick with anything for two seconds when the fact is that landings aren't always smooth... kinks have to be worked out and changes in the paradigm of thought and behavior do not come over night. But what we would see is progress and a better functioning society in few years to come, and that is what would last.

Expanding on this could take many pages. I agree with these statements.

 

"Ready?"

 

"Ready for what?"

 

I was taught from an early age that you must always be ready for life and it is not the predictable or the status quo you need to be ready for because they ebb and flow with the events and situations that are not the norm or planned for. The extremes of this and even the smaller microcosms will deteriorate the illusion of control and freedom until you realize that control of yourself and recognizing the necessity to manipulate your enviorment is where you freedoms and control are found.........

 

In other words freedom is not a heedless lack of responsiblity at all. It is choosing one course of action over others and staying with it to acheive one outcome over another that is where freedom is found. Thus freedom and responsiblity are not opposed, in fact they are one and the same.

 

This takes mindful meditation to discover and learn for oneself. The beauty of it is that if you live your life instead of letting it live you then you find both a fullfilling responsible life and your freedom as well.....and that kind of freedom can not be taken from you. Dr. Victor Frankle will approve. colgate.gif

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K^2

 

Really, it depends on what you want to get out of the use of the drug. I don't know if Salvia affects brain cells and other sh*t the way cannabis does, so my only strongs in it is: money and quality.

Don't all drugs involve the brain?

They all affect brain. We are interested in long-term effects, though. Most do damage, but some do a lot more than others. As far as drugs go, Cannabis doesn't do all that much damage. Alcohol, if used with the same frequency, will do roughly the same amount. So it really comes down to use versus abuse.

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Canofceleri

It's not all about the brain. What about the liver?

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K^2

I don't know which of these will effect liver worse, but again, a lot of the drugs aren't going to be worse on your liver than alcohol.

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godami

hello everyone

what im about to say is based on my own philosophy, in the way I see life, so it may be a great true that make sense or the stupidiest lie of all time.

 

As you all should know all that it is around us is a System. This sistem control us in all the ways possible, it controls what we say, how we act, where are we, everything. My point is that even legalizing all drugs the sistem will never let us get over it, after a while, they will make necesary to have a drug buyer permit, and underground deals will take place again.

------------------------

 

Weed vs Salvia

It is true that the effect of salvia is way stronger than the ilegal weed.

Weed is a drug that you can control salvia in the other hands controls you.

Salvia is not a drug that affects other when your using it , weed might do it.

You cant hit salvia a then go around normaly to the store or something with wieed you can do that. Maybe is jsut for that that this damn Salvia still legal.

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