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All-Blacks

United Kingdom

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All-Blacks

This is one of the subjects that has been puzzling me for a while, a taboo subject which is confusing and difficult to assess. However, personally I just don't understand how the United Kingdom doesn't classify as a 'World Superpower'. What does the United States have that the UK don't to distinguish herself as a 'Superpower'? What even classifies as a 'Superpower'?

 

If it comes down to a financial sense, the United Kingdom's GDP is fith overall and sixth per capita globally, which is not bad in her own right. London (the capital of the UK) is also one of three of the supposed Global Cities (shared with Tokyo and New York City), and as of late has been touted as the Global City by some. Not to mention the Pound Sterling is one of the strongest currencies in the world, twice the worth of the American Dollar and stronger than the Euro itself. The UK is also one of the leading Import/Export figures. Its oblivious to say the United Kingdom aren't a huge influence in a financial manner. Its obviously clear that they are, but is it enough?

 

Obviously some recognition as a 'Superpower' comes down to a cultural sense to some extent. Most tend to say the States 'owns' the right to say they are the centre of global influence. But if you look closesly, you can come to realise and appreciate that the United Kingdom has had a huge influence globally on par if not more than the States. Even if we ignore her huge influence back in her stronghold, pre-20th century (such as the English language, Magna Carta, Science, Food, Parliament/Government and Industrial Revolution to name a few), and primarily focus on the last few decades (especially in a media sense), you can see the UK Music (especially), Film, TV industry is still on par with the US. And the odds are the clothes on your back are from London (...or Paris). Lets not forget that the lifestyle you have is largely based off and influenced from the British.

 

Foreign policies? The UK is the 'Frontman' I suppose in both the European Union, and NATO shared with the US. She has also committed in most warfare conflicts in the last 100 years or so, having a significant role along side the US in the latter half of the 20th century to today. And don't forget her Commonwealth states, three of which are important figures in today's global society, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. And not to mention her ex-colonies with a large Anglo population

 

If this isn't enough, what else is?

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Shylock

Interesting stuff...and since I don't know much about comparative qualities of nation states I can't really discuss what makes a country a superpower and what doesn't. My only real concern about what you said is that you commented that the UKs Film and TV industry is on par with the US. I don't think you could be any more wrong about that. "Hollywood" grosses more money and spends more money then a lot of small countries. The UK film industry is no where near the level the US is. Unless you start taking in account MNCs and all that jazz.

 

But then again, I don't think size of film and TV industry is a deciding factor on who is a superpower and who isn't. confused.gif

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Otter

I'd venture a guess to say that the USA is only called a "superpower" because they label themselves, and no one's going to stop them. In some respect, I guess you could say that's the very definition of super-power, hey? tounge.gif

 

I found this an interesting read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superpower

 

 

And I'd like to point out that the USA has a lock on manufacturing culture. Hundreds of films every year. Hundreds of television channels. More magazines than you could shake a fist at. Thousands of music videos. Thousands of musical artists. It's an enormous world influence.

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All-Blacks

 

My only real concern about what you said is that you commented that the UKs Film and TV industry is on par with the US.  I don't think you could be any more wrong about that.  "Hollywood" grosses more money and spends more money then a lot of small countries.  The UK film industry is no where near the level the US is.  Unless you start taking in account MNCs and all that jazz.

 

But then again, I don't think size of film and TV industry is a deciding factor on who is a superpower and who isn't.   confused.gif

Well I guess not in film, maybe not on the same level as the US (largely in a financial sense), but you can't really say they don't have any significance globally can you? They do (especially on an influence), but its just not as obvious. Many American films have a British influence and backbone.

 

On the idiot box though, its an evident yes. TV plays a huge significance on British lifestyle, to most it has come to be more important than film itself. And lets not forget many of American shows are largely based off a British domestic creation, take 'Pop Idol', 'Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?' and all those dodgy American soaps to name a few. Americans to a large extent 'copy' and 'Americanise' our creations (in both TV and film), and most Americans and even non-Brits seem to not realise this.

 

I mentioned the media because when it comes down to a global superpower, one has to grow its culture on to others (in other words, have an influence). Whats a better way to expand this other than media?

 

@Otter: William Fox should of been lynched for increasing the American ego tounge.gif .

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Im Rick James B**ch!

I don't want to detract from discussion, but i would rather not be known as a superpower. This is mostly due to their tendencies to be hated. I would much rather be deceptively powerful *INSERT ART OF WAR QUOTES*.

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Shylock
I don't want to detract from discussion, but i would rather not be known as a superpower. This is mostly due to their tendencies to be hated. I would much rather be deceptively powerful *INSERT ART OF WAR QUOTES*.

I'll just say it instead of beating around the bush. The United Kingdom's days of being a world power are quickly coming to an end.

 

If you look back in the day, the English Empire would of never left the channel if they hadn't had an abundance of raw materials to use from all of their colonies. Since basically the end of colonial rule immediately following WWII, England has been slowly fading away as a world power to a second class power. The only thing that has kept the UK on the wold power list is nuclear technology. But as technology and the need to more local raw materials becomes the deciding factor in a nations power, most countries are going to fade away. Believe it or not, if it wasn't for the United States ungodly thirst for oil, our country could be self sustaining. Capitalism and outsourcing have made us more dependent on other nations (China, Korea etc.) for our goods, but we COULD produce the same stuff on our own soil, with our own raw materials, it would just cost more because of higher costs of living and such in America.

 

Now if the UK is self sustaining and I am completely wrong...correct me. But I don't think England has the capabilities to feed itself properly AND produce everything they need as a country without depending on others for materials. The UK is just too small a country.

 

 

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TubbyJ

Everything except the fact that Brits have Americans on the media is completely true (although the point you made about 'Who Wants To Be A Millionaire' and 'Pop Idol' are true, don't forget about rock 'n' roll, rap, and many others). The UK really should be considered a superpower, but why would you want such a useless and hated label? The word 'superpower' sounds like something Lex Luthor would say in describing his master plan to take over the world.

 

Plus, because your now a superpower (and have all the things that come along with the title: a strong economy, kickass military, and a wide impacting culture) all the sudden the bleeding hearts (and occasionally other countries) of the superpower believe it's your job as a superpower to aid all the struggling countries of the world. Which opens up a whole other can of worms (Vietnam and Iraq, anyone? Although we did have stronger more self-centered motives) that you really don't want.

 

Let's just cut the UK a break and not unnecessarily name them a 'superpower', it's really not a good thing.

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All-Blacks

 

I'll just say it instead of beating around the bush.  The United Kingdom's days of being a world power are quickly coming to an end.

 

Yes, the United Kingdom isn't exactly at her prime like in the past. But, after sustaining two World Wars (in which she had a significant role plus being in the thick of it) and countless other minor roles, you wouldn't expect a nation to make a comeback to her stronghold would you? Since then though, the United Kingdom is growing more and more powerful everyday since 60 years ago. Even comparing to the last decade you can clearly see her economy and global significance is on the rise (the nation's domestic government spending has increased by £30B in the past 10 years for example). Many are underestimating the UK's role on the world, both in financial and cultural terms.

 

 

Now if the UK is self sustaining and I am completely wrong...correct me.  But  I don't think England has the capabilities to feed itself properly AND produce everything they need as a country without depending on others for materials.  The UK is just too small a country

 

I think you don't realise that every country depends on eachother in importing and exporting goods. Hence why sanctions were a horrible thing for the nation to receive during the League of Nation's day. Every country would lose countless money in a sanctioning situation, say if the Middle East sanctioned your oil, you'd be well and truely buggered. Likewise with the rest of the world.

 

 

Everything except the fact that Brits have Americans on the media is completely true (although the point you made about 'Who Wants To Be A Millionaire' and 'Pop Idol' are true, don't forget about rock 'n' roll, rap, and many others).

 

Mate, both countries have brought in marvellous acts in a media sense, they both deserve equal recognition throughout the world. You give us the majority of films, we give you the majority of music. TV though is hard to assess as its more down to their domestic culture (e.g. many Americans won't get the jokes of the BBC sitcom, Red Dwarf, likewise with your sitcoms). Both countries are fantastic in their own right, equally.

 

 

The UK really should be considered a superpower, but why would you want such a useless and hated label?

 

Its the label that makes everyone believe your country is the 'be all and ends all'. Its the label that makes you and everyone else think that the State's are above all, where in fact many other's could top. Its all about recognition, of which the United Kingdom gets very little of.

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PCJ.

In the 21st, primarily it is that money rules the world. Without it, a country cannot prosper, and thus the more money a country has, the more power a country hold.

 

When the GDP of the entire European Union equates to that that or thereabouts of the USA, its hardly surprising that the individual nations of the EU cannot financially compete with the USA. Whilst the UK may have the 6th highest GDP, the difference between the two is so vast that it becomes almost incomparable. China is the only nation finacial able to compete with the USA, but even that has a ~3 Trillion USD defecit, which in it's self is greater than the UK's total GDP.

 

Ref.

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TFatseas

Heh... don't forget the United States has enough nuclear weapons to level any country on Earth.... and then some.

 

You could still say the same about Russia but with their falling population and their abysmal economy it isn't deserving of them.

 

Thought they are pouring massive sums of money into their army, long range bomber patrols, and warmer relations with China....

 

Holy sh*t!!!!! World war III is coming!!!!!!! Get to the bomb shelters!!!

 

(yes they still have a lot nukes also)

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Chesterton
Heh... don't forget the United States has enough nuclear weapons to level any country on Earth.... and then some.

 

You could still say the same about Russia but with their falling population and their abysmal economy it isn't deserving of them.

 

Thought they are pouring massive sums of money into their army, long range bomber patrols, and warmer relations with China....

 

Holy sh*t!!!!! World war III is coming!!!!!!! Get to the bomb shelters!!!

 

(yes they still have a lot nukes also)

The UK have 200 nukes, I'm sure that could do some damage.

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TFatseas

 

The UK have 200 nukes, I'm sure that could do some damage.

 

Heh.. 200 nukes will clean the slate of any country on Earth without much trouble.

 

But I believe population factors in big time also. 300 million to around 60.5 million I heard last.

 

It edges it in the favor of the US.

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Cran.
TV though is hard to assess as its more down to their domestic culture (e.g. many Americans won't get the jokes of the BBC sitcom, Red Dwarf, likewise with your sitcoms).

While that may be true for the United States, british television shows are shown all around the world. We get lots of British television shows on television over in Australia, and I believe many shows are in syndication throughout Europe.

 

I was going to mention US remakes of UK television shows.. but I can only think of a couple off the top of my head - Who's Line Is It Anyway? and The Office

 

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PANDAEMON

the UK WAS a superpower before the us during coloniel times. now its lost most ofn its influence to the us and other countries but still retains much of it. that according to me is why.

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Mark
Heh... don't forget the United States has enough nuclear weapons to level any country on Earth.... and then some.

 

 

Quite a dig up I guess, but wished to add a point. Russia has more nukes than the US (See here) yet would you count Russia as a superpower in every sense of the word anymore? Certainly not from an economic point of view. I mean sure, as far as things like the UN Security Council go, Mother Russia has some clout, but considering the sheer geographical size of the nation, is that such a surprise?

 

I think the number one thing that's restricting the UK from competing is purely size. A large population in such a small country is going to mean resources are tight.

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Eddie280

a superpower is judged on its population size , geographical size its millitary capabilities, i.e. Nuclear weapons but also on the size of its armed services.

 

Britain, despite being rich and powerful is small in size and population in comparison to the USA, China and Russia. And our Army is Brilliantly trained but very small in comparison to the superpowerr armies. Britain has fewer than 100,000 men under arms and we are over stretched by being involved in Iraq, Afghanistan and the forces stationed in other countries. For instance ther are 26,000 British troops still stationed in Germany. Suggesting that Russia is still seen as the big threat.

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All-Blacks

 

a superpower is judged on its population size , geographical size its millitary capabilities, i.e. Nuclear weapons but also on the size of its armed services.

Although those may be important factors for when being a world power, those figures alone doesn't necessarily mean you are a superpower. It's not the size, it's how you use it.

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Iminicus

The true role of a superpower is military might and (this is crucial for it is America's blessing and currently curse) the currency of the nation being the influence for trade and economies in other countries.

 

America is the world's only superpower purely because of its Military might and the US dollar. However, if we are to believe the doomsayers and the sub prime mortgage fall out in California ( This is influential on the rest of America because California has the biggest state population and also is the biggest consumerist state in the Union. Those two thing mean that California affects the American Market more than anything else, except maybe war. Now taking that into account, realize that the sub prime mortgages falling out is really only in California. For evidence look up California Energy Crisis. The California Energy Crisis drove the cost of electricity up in all 48 continental states. That had a huge effect on consumerism during the time period it lasted. California's demand for power back then meant one nuclear power station was turned online every month and trillions of watts of power were feed into California. ) then the power of the US dollar is dwindling. This has happened several times before, most notably during the 1970's Fuel Crisis. During that time the American dollar slumped but it rose again. What drives the power of the dollar is how many people are using it. The US dollar has 300 million plus people trading, buying, selling in it, with it, and calculating costs against it. The Euro ( the only contender, the Chinese Yen isn't counted because China relies heavily on foreign currency ) has 200 million plus people trading and buying it. There are signs this is changing ( Jay Z flashing Euros instead of Dollar bills ).

 

I don't see the slump of the US dollar in the modern market to be the downfall of itself. As seen already it is slowly rising again as California sorts out the mortgage problem. It will be interesting to see how it ends.

 

England isn't a superpower because of those reasons. Its once great military has been reduced to second string. The currency of the Empire has changed and been dropped by all but one country. How can you command anything when you rely on another currency for international trade? England doesn't buy from America in pounds it buys in US Dollars. It buys from European countries in Euros. For it to be classed as a superpower it would only trade in pounds.

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Eddie280

 

Its once great military has been reduced to second string.

 

I disagree. Our military is the best trained army in the world. It is small but certainly not Second String.

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chrisisking
Its once great military has been reduced to second string.

 

I disagree. Our military is the best trained army in the world. It is small but certainly not Second String.

Exactly!!! The americans have more numbers but are pure and simply retarded! Did you hear that USA? Your army is RETARDED! You have blown our soldiers up countless times by supposedly, accident dozingoff.gif and were meant to be patners?!? The British army is the best in the world and everyone knows it thats why we used to rule the world. Face it, what makes a country? Its the people. And the Brits have the biggest balls and brains out of every race/army in the world (were known for it) and thats why were the top dog, end of!

 

I don't mean to offend anyone but I'm sure I have, though sh*t! devil.gif

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Chickstick
Exactly!!! The americans have more numbers but are pure and simply retarded! Did you hear that USA? Your army is RETARDED! You have blown our soldiers up countless times by supposedly, accident dozingoff.gif and were meant to be patners?!?

That's complete and utter bollocks and you know it. The incidents of "friendly fire" have been down to incompetence, not a deliberate action to kill our troops.

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TFatseas

 

You have blown our soldiers up countless times by supposedly, accident

There has been friendly fire in every modern war on every side, so thats an invalid statement. So if you keep going complaining about the US Military and calling them incompetent, those are ridiculous, ill informed statements that you hear though your media.

 

Accidents happen, usually cased by misidentification, and protocols have been put in place so they will not happen again.

 

And don't think friendly fire just happens in the US army either. Its happened in the British army also.

 

I'm not going to argue who has the better military, you should research and decide for yourself using current hard facts regarding each army, navy, air force etc.

 

I'll tell you right now I have the utmost respect for your services, as well as mine, I do not disrespect anyone who serves in uniform. They are doing more than I would ever do

Edited by TFatseas

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Cypress Hill

My guess is that having an economy sh*tloads greater than that of any country in the world (even those 4 or 5 times our size), the most powerful military in the world (technologically adavanced, mainly) more nukes than any other (but Russia) and (unfortunately) the mosty dominant culture in the world might have something to do with the US being considered a superpower. Plus, the US collectively gives more aid foreign aid than any other country, so even if the billions of people in developing countries despise America, a great many of them are dependent on it.

 

IMO, there's no way the UK can be considered a superpower today. I would say China's a distant second to the US. And I don't think it's really possible for there to be more than 1 or 2 superpowers.

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Typhus

The United Kingdom will rise again. Sooner or later there will be another golden age and these savages in the colonies will get exactly what's been coming to them. A boot stamping on their face and a fire working through their home. It is inevitable.

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TFatseas

 

The United Kingdom will rise again. Sooner or later there will be another golden age and these savages in the colonies will get exactly what's been coming to them. A boot stamping on their face and a fire working through their home. It is inevitable.

"You cannot invade the mainland United States.

There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

 

- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

(Japanese Navy)

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Land Of Confusion
The United Kingdom will rise again. Sooner or later there will be another golden age and these savages in the colonies will get exactly what's been coming to them. A boot stamping on their face and a fire working through their home. It is inevitable.

Did a US tourist steal your teddy bear when you were a child? I mean, you seem to have some deep-seeded illogical hatred for the US, from that statement anyway.

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Dom0803

So long as the UK is a nanny panny state that's too afraid to offend an illegal immigrant, it will never be a superpower ever again.

 

Except in homosexual colonies, where they will be handing out free UK posters.

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Reincarnated

 

The United Kingdom will rise again. Sooner or later there will be another golden age and these savages in the colonies will get exactly what's been coming to them. A boot stamping on their face and a fire working through their home. It is inevitable.

If this is how the United Kingdom feels, I'd hate to know how the Iraqis feel!

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Typhus

 

The United Kingdom will rise again. Sooner or later there will be another golden age and these savages in the colonies will get exactly what's been coming to them. A boot stamping on their face and a fire working through their home. It is inevitable.

Did a US tourist steal your teddy bear when you were a child? I mean, you seem to have some deep-seeded illogical hatred for the US, from that statement anyway.

No. I actually rather like America. But sooner or later things will return to how they were. And how they should have remained too.

Edited by Typhus

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Iminicus
The United Kingdom will rise again. Sooner or later there will be another golden age and these savages in the colonies will get exactly what's been coming to them. A boot stamping on their face and a fire working through their home. It is inevitable.

Did a US tourist steal your teddy bear when you were a child? I mean, you seem to have some deep-seeded illogical hatred for the US, from that statement anyway.

No. I actually rather like America. But sooner or later things will return to how they were. And how they should have remained too.

You are right. Rome shall arise from the ASHES and reclaim what is rightfully hers.

 

Come let us help Rome take back the world.

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