Boxing Discussion

[Attorney General 41]

First and foremost...we should acknowledge Burning-Ice who created the original Boxing Discussion topic. He is a fine man for this feat and rumor has it that he can crack coconuts with his bare hands. Here is a link to his original topic.

Secondly, this topic is strictly on boxing. If you're here to smack talk, stop at the door... the Mixed Martial Arts Fanboys Anonymous meetings are next door.


Alright, let's get to business. The last few months have brought us some decent fights including Miguel Cotto vs. Zab Judah, Rafael Marquez vs. Israel Vasquez, Juan Manuel Marquez vs. Marco Antonio Barrera and so on. We've seen the highest grossing fight of all time in Oscar De La Hoya vs. Floyd Mayweather which took in a grand total of 155 million dollars...this fact alone demonstrates to the detractors that the sport is far from dying off. We have even seen the signing of another super fight that will set up a showdown between the ferocious Manny Pacquiao and Mexican living-legend Marco Antonio Barrera. Also on the horizon we can look forward to Bernard "The Executioner" Hopkins vs. southpaw slickster Winky Wright, Fernando "el Feroz" Vargas vs. Ricardo Mayorga, the Marquez vs. Vasquez rematch and Juan Manuel Marquez vs. exciting Argentinian Jorge Barrios. So...at least we know we'll have some appealing fights to sink our teeth into in the near future.

Lately, it seems like the sport is viewed as a mere footnote to mainstream sports, and what many don't know is that at the height of it's popularity in the United States, boxing once seriously rivaled "America's Pastime", Baseball. Not to mention that an Ali -Frazier fight was just as much of a "must-see" as the Superbowl is now. Indeed, the markets are tough to compare because all the revenue brought in during the 50s, 60s, 70s was accrued at the gate of these fights, as opposed to the monumental revenue streams brought in by TV commercials these days. Nonetheless, we're talking upwards of 5k to get a front row seat at an elite event back then...and that, my friends, is big action. But, over the years, the sport has endured many a black eye. Some were self induced by the shenanigans that seem to come with these egregious sanctioning organizations. Other "not so flattering" events were Mike Tyson's ear chomp, the Julio Cesar Chavez-Meldrick Taylor stoppage, the death and or serious injury to several notable fighters, rumors of thrown fights, various unpopular judging discrepancies, and so on.

For those of you who may be new to the sport, and even to those who may not have seen these particular fights, here are clips from a few notable fights and personal favorites. It's boxing at it's absolute finest. These clips are some of the most invigorating action in the past thirty years.

The first is a clip of two Hall of Famers in Cincinnati born Aaron Pryor and Nicaraguan Alexis Arguello. This fight took place in 1982 and was voted "Best Fight of the 80's" by a panel of experts. This is only a portion of the fight. If need be, I'll post the whole thing in it's entirety.



This clip is of Marvelous Marvin Hagler vs. Tommy "The Hitman" Hearns. It is almost unanimously agreed upon to be the finest three minute of boxing that anyone has ever seen. You be the judge...



This is the 9th round of the first fight between Arturo Gatti and Mickey Ward. It was the best round in what would become one of the most enamoring trilogies the sport has seen in years. You guys think the best way to hurt a guy is to hit him in the face...think again...and then watch this body shot to the liver by Mickey Ward.



Keeping with more current fights, this fight is revered by everyone who has seen it. It is of the late, great Diego Corrales and Jose Luis Castilo. It's a see-saw battle in the 10th round in which both guys were bloody, swollen and hurt badly. Hands down a top 10 round of all time.



And lastly, this is one knockdown, dragout event that was George Foreman vs. Ron Lyle. This 1976 slugfest is still timeless. You want brutal back and forth action...well then you've come to the right place.




Hope you enjoyed. I'll try to keep this updated with results, predictions, rankings, current and old historic fight clips and even tales of debauchery from my own experiences attending events here in the US. Please do the same.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Crokey

[TDP992 91]

I was kind of disapointed by the Mayweather/De La Hoya fight, not because of the quality, since it was an above average fight, but just seeing De La Hoya lose like that is pretty much marking the end of his dominance, which means Boxing is probably losing yet another star. I heard Hopkins, is coming back and being one of my favorite boxers even though he can't beat Taylor I think he still has it after beating Antonio Tarver, in which I'm pretty sure he had to put on some weight to fight him. I haven't seen any good heavyweight fights latley, but I am looking forward to Brewster/Klitschko which is on tonight(I think).

 

Just some of my thoughts. Nice clips by the way.

[XN22 3]

Alright dudes, I'm looking for a fight. It was a Mickey Ward fight from I believe 1999. Pretty f*ckin epic bout, can't remember the other guy though. Just tell me who his best fight in 99 was against and that should help me out.

[TDP992 91]

 

Alright dudes, I'm looking for a fight. It was a Mickey Ward fight from I believe 1999. Pretty f*ckin epic bout, can't remember the other guy though. Just tell me who his best fight in 99 was against and that should help me out.

I don't know of any of his fights in 99. Mickey Ward vs. Arturo Gatti in 2002 maybe? That was a pretty awsome fight. The ninth round was one of the best rounds I've ever seen.

[XN22 3]

Nah, it wasn't Gatti. I'm not positive about the 99, but I'm pretty sure it was before 02.

 

Edit, found it.

 

Mickey Ward vs. Emanuel Burton (July 13, 2001)

[Burning-Ice 0]

 

Nah, it wasn't Gatti. I'm not positive about the 99, but I'm pretty sure it was before 02.

 

Edit, found it.

 

Mickey Ward vs. Emanuel Burton (July 13, 2001)

Hell of a fight, Emmanuel Burton Augustus was/is a great fighter, even though his record says otherwise. I am not sure why he has lost so many fighters, a couple of them have been bad decisions but not all of his losses could be that.

 

Anyway, I remember starting a boxing discussion a couple of years ago and it did pretty well but eventually died out. Hopefully this one won't die out.

 

So Klitschko avenged his loss vs Brewster this weekend, it was pretty much a repeat of the first fight but Klitschko didn't gas out and ended up forcing Brewster's corner to stop the fight. With Chagaev-Ibragimov unifying some of those piece of crap belts, looks like the HW division is going to have a single champion if Wlad can face the winner of Chagaev-Ibragimov.

 

This weekend I believe is a HBO triple header? Gatti vs Contender star Alfonso Gomez, I am torn on this fight..Gatti is way past his best, he was beaten by Baldomir who is really just a tough journeyman type fighter, so I will say Gomez will win this fight just because he is younger and has less wear and tear on him. Malthayse vs Cintron, can't say much, I've seen Malthaysse once against Paul Williams and have never seen Cintron, I will say Cintron by decision though..just a wild guess. The fight I am anticipating is Paul Williams vs Margarito. Williams is a hell of a specimen, a 6'1, 147 pounder? Damn!! I don't know if he can handle Margarito's workrate and power, but I am definately rooting for Williams to win..that fight is going to be entertaining. Two guys who love to throw punches and good workrates!

 

As for the 130 pound division, I'm disappointed in Pacman fighting Barrera again, he already sparked Barrera and I'd rather see him against Humberto Soto or Joan Guzman..oh well.

 

Edit: Didn't even read the first paragraph made by AG, I am just glad there are some boxing fans on GTAF!

[XN22 3]

I seriously wish my HBO free trial wasn't over.

[Attorney General 41]

Ward vs. Burton was top notch.

 

I finally caught the Klischko-Brewster fight. I was shocked to see Brewster so complacent, normally he's right on top of his opponents...dissappointing showing.

 

And I don't know what to expect from Gatti this week. You guys hear that Micky Ward will be his head trainer on Saturday?

I just can't wait for the Williams-Margarito fight. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Williams pulled out a decision, though Margarito is one tough dude. As for Cintron, I've followed him for a bit. He was born in Puerto Rico, but he started fighting out of Reading, PA which isn't far from where I live. He's got great power in both hands and good range, but he hasn't been the same since Margarito butchered him a couple years ago. Either way it figures to be an entertaining night of fights.

[TDP992 91]

 

Ward vs. Burton was top notch.

 

I finally caught the Klischko-Brewster fight. I was shocked to see Brewster so complacent, normally he's right on top of his opponents...dissappointing showing.

 

And I don't know what to expect from Gatti this week. You guys hear that Micky Ward will be his head trainer on Saturday?

I just can't wait for the Williams-Margarito fight. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Williams pulled out a decision, though Margarito is one tough dude. As for Cintron, I've followed him for a bit. He was born in Puerto Rico, but he started fighting out of Reading, PA which isn't far from where I live. He's got great power in both hands and good range, but he hasn't been the same since Margarito butchered him a couple years ago. Either way it figures to be an entertaining night of fights.

Ward vs. Gatti was definitely better.

 

I agree with you about Brewster, that fight sucked. Something was wrong with him in that match. I remember last time they fought Brewster was getting pounded the entire fight, almost the same as the other night, but last time he came up with a late round knock-out. Maybe he thought he could get away with that again? Also Brewster really needs to get into better shape, he was looking very much overweight.

[Attorney General 41]

I just read todays paper and it said that a fight was signed between two undefeated super middleweights in Joe Calzaghe and Mikkel Kessler. Should be an entertaining fight. On top of that, I read the other day that a fight is in the works for Jermaine Taylor to fight Kelly Pavlik at 160. Taylor's camp announced that, win or lose, Taylor would be moving up to 168 after that fight, which should take place in late September.

[Burning-Ice 0]

Ward vs. Burton was top notch.

 

I finally caught the Klischko-Brewster fight. I was shocked to see Brewster so complacent, normally he's right on top of his opponents...dissappointing showing.

 

And I don't know what to expect from Gatti this week. You guys hear that Micky Ward will be his head trainer on Saturday?

I just can't wait for the Williams-Margarito fight. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Williams pulled out a decision, though Margarito is one tough dude. As for Cintron, I've followed him for a bit. He was born in Puerto Rico, but he started fighting out of Reading, PA which isn't far from where I live. He's got great power in both hands and good range, but he hasn't been the same since Margarito butchered him a couple years ago. Either way it figures to be an entertaining night of fights.

Ward vs. Gatti was definitely better.

 

I agree with you about Brewster, that fight sucked. Something was wrong with him in that match. I remember last time they fought Brewster was getting pounded the entire fight, almost the same as the other night, but last time he came up with a late round knock-out. Maybe he thought he could get away with that again? Also Brewster really needs to get into better shape, he was looking very much overweight.

That is just Brewster's build, he looked the same to be honest when he beat Klitschko the first time. Unfortunately, the only reason Brewster won the fight was cause Klitschko gassed out, and that is the only reason why he won. This time, Klitschko didn't gas out and obviously won the fight..really, Brewster was never in Klitscko's league to begin with and really just lucked out with the first win. Brewster is an entertaining, but limited fighter.

 

I will be rooting for Kessler to win the Calzaghe fight, never been a fan of Joe.

[TDP992 91]

Did anybody catch the Malthayse/Cintron fight? I missed that one, but i did see Gatti knocked and now he's supposedly retiring. He'll come back like most boxers do, after they say their "retiring". Also Margarito/Williams was a great fight, best one I've seen in a few months. I've never seen Williams before and I've only seen Margarito once or twice. Williams was almost dominating the first half but then in the late rounds Margarito started to rally and it was really great to see. If they still did 15 round fights Margarito probably would've won, since this was Williams's first time going past ten rounds in any fight, and the cut below his left eye was just about to tear open.

 

So who is everyone taking in the Hopkins/Winky match? My money's on Hopkins only because I witnessed him take down Tarver in is last fight.

[Attorney General 41]

I had to work late last night, but I did catch the Williams-Margarito fight. I thought Williams deserved the close decision and I think he's a good young fighter. He called out Mayweather and Cotto and while I don't think he's ready for them just yey, I do believe his style could give Cotto problems. That could be an entertaining fight though, just as last night was.

 

As for Hopkins-Wright, I can hardly wait. Hopkins is by far and away, my favorite fighter. What draws me to him is not only his style, but everything he stands for. He was always a fighter first and an entertainer second. And he believed that a fighter earns his money and should be allowed to keep the majority of his purse...not the promoters or managers or trainers. I was fortunate enough to see him fight in person twice. The first was the first event I had ever attended...which was the Joppy fight at Boardwalk Hall in Atlantic City when he butchered that poor bastard to a decision. The second was at the MGM Grand when he became the only man to KO De La Hoya. I spent a small fortune on the latter, but it was well worth it to see him in action. He is a true master of his craft. I, though admittedly partial, have few doubts that he can lose this fight against Winky. I'm well aware of Winky's formidable skill, ability and defensive prowess. I just think that, even at his age, Hopkins is superior in almost every aspect of their respected styles. Hopkins in a close, but clear-cut decision win.

[tuareg 595]

 

 

 

Boxing and K-1 compilation. The un-touchables. Enjoys.

[Burning-Ice 0]

Did anybody catch the Malthayse/Cintron fight? I missed that one, but i did see Gatti knocked and now he's supposedly retiring. He'll come back like most boxers do, after they say their "retiring". Also Margarito/Williams was a great fight, best one I've seen in a few months. I've never seen Williams before and I've only seen Margarito once or twice. Williams was almost dominating the first half but then in the late rounds Margarito started to rally and it was really great to see. If they still did 15 round fights Margarito probably would've won, since this was Williams's first time going past ten rounds in any fight, and the cut below his left eye was just about to tear open.

 

So who is everyone taking in the Hopkins/Winky match? My money's on Hopkins only because I witnessed him take down Tarver in is last fight.

Completely disagree, it was obvious that Margarito was also running out of gas..as evident of his twelth round performance and giving Williams the win. I scored the fight a clear, but close 116-112 decision win for Williams. Williams clearly won rounds 1-5, and 12 while the only clear round that Margarito won was round 11 when he was pounding Williams. All the other rounds were very closely contested and could be scored either way, but IMO because of Williams workrate, he got most of them.

 

Cintron looked good against Malltyhse, it was a good measuring stick considering Williams stopped Mallthyse in 10 rounds (however, Malthyse was never knocked down in that fight)..so that fact Cintron easily disposed of him says a lot. Cintron should get a rematch with Margarito, I think he could win it.

 

Gomez vs Gatti was unfortunately what I thought it was going to be. Gatti was somewhat competetive in the first couple of rounds, well not really but atleast he was landing some punches..he is just way past his prime and got beat up by a decent fighter in Gomez. Gomez is a pretty fast fighter with great snap on his punches but I have seen him before, and he does tire out in the 2nd half of his fights. I don't think he will be a world champ but he can be an entertaining fighter.

 

Winky vs B-Hop, I think Winky will get the decision. Winky not only has great defense, if you have seen his last couple of fights you would see his amazing workrate. Winky will outwork B-Hop.

 

Ah, just one more paragraph AG mentioned a possible Cotto vs Williams fight..now I would definately pay to watch a fight like that. Cotto is a bloody brutal body puncher and I think he may be able to wear down WIlliams and finish him in the late rounds. Cotto is a stronger, more accurate, straighter puncher than Margarito. Would be a hell of a fight!

[Attorney General 41]

I had Williams-Margarito 115-113. And I agree that Williams may have held on in a 15 rounder. Margarito had to walk through fire all night just to get near Williams. I think that the accumulation of all that work wore on him.

 

And daaaaaaamn! Cintron's left hook right cross put Walter Mallthyse on his back in what could be the KO of the year so far. Looks like the wisdom of Emmanuel Stewart has benefited Cintron in a big way. Oh wait...didn't Stewart do pretty well with another 6' plus, 147 pounder? That's right...Tommy "The Hitman" Hearns. Hearns was thinner than Cintron, but both are tall for welterweights and both possess freakish power when throwing straight right hands.

 

Speaking of Tommy Hearns...I often think of so called "dream fights". Like who would win a fight, when both guys were in their prime...Tommy Hearns or Julio Cesar Chavez, Aaron Pryor or Ray Leonard, Marvin Hagler or Jake LaMotta, Mike Tyson or George Foreman? Actually, the Pryor-Leonard fight could have happened, but Leonard apparently wanted no part of it...and who could blame him? Anyway, any "dream" fights you can think of that would've been sweet to see or current fights that you'd like to see made...put em on the table.

[Attorney General 41]

Well boys, perhaps we'll get to see Jermaine Taylor in an entertaining fight for the first time since he fought Winky Wright. The Kelly Pavlik fight is a done deal. It's signed and set for September 29 in Atlantic City, NJ at the Boardwalk Hall. Should be interesting!

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/ne...tory?id=2940614

[Burning-Ice 0]

Well boys, perhaps we'll get to see Jermaine Taylor in an entertaining fight for the first time since he fought Winky Wright. The Kelly Pavlik fight is a done deal. It's signed and set for September 29 in Atlantic City, NJ at the Boardwalk Hall. Should be interesting!

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/ne...tory?id=2940614

Kelly Pavlik is a favourite among other boxing fans, he is very physically gifted, posses a nice long jab, great power, and is pretty accurate. He also seems to have a good chin cause he took all of Edison Miranda's shots well. Taylor has been critized for his past opponents, however, I think this fight with Pavlik is exactly what he needs. Taylor is not an aggressive fighter, when he has to be the one to initiate the fight (see the Spinks fight), he doesn't look good. However, when his opponent initiates the fight and Taylor can counterpunch, he looks very good. Jermain is a natural counterpuncher and I have him beating Pavlik by a close decision, probably split in an extremely entertaining fight.

[XN22 3]

Yeah I think Winky's gonna get the decision as well. Hopkins is a great fighter, but IMO Winky's better.

[TDP992 91]

Is this fight on HBO or PPV? This is looking like a really good fight, I'm predicting Winky getting knocked out in the 9th.

[Attorney General 41]

It'll be on PPV.

 

I may be blinded by my bias toward B-hop, but I'm stickin to my guns on this one and going with Hopkins by close, but clear-cut decision.

[Attorney General 41]

Hopkins won a unanimous decision over Wright. Scorecards were as follows...117-111, 117-112 and 116-112. I had it 116-113 for Hopkins.

 

Well, I'm a firm believer that to take a champions' title belt, the challenger has to impose himself on the champion. So when a round is very close, I generally tend to side with the champion. So with all these close rounds between these two...I found myself giving many of them to B-Hop. I thought the scores were a bit wide, but hey...same result. Anyway I watched the fight with eight other people, all of whom thought the fight was boring. I gotta disagree, it may not have been a slugfest, but those who follow the sport never expected one. I thought it was a terrific technical fight, by two top-5 pound-for-pound fighters...which is a relative rarity in any era. To me, Hopkins is the last of an all but extinct group of throwback fighters. He may not be flashy...but he is as smart, crafty and efficient as anyone in boxing for the last 25 years.

[Cuse510 0]

Didn't watch the fight (don't have many other friends who like boxing so I would have been paying for the PPV myself), but I'm glad Hopkins won. He's been one of my favorite fighters and it's been good to see him bounce back from those losses to Jermain Taylor. I'll probably try to watch the replay next week, and then I can make a more analytical post

[Burning-Ice 0]

I didn't pay for the PPV either, I am a fan of defensive technicans but it was too big a risk for me to invite my friends over and the fight ended up being a complete bust. However, I heard that Katsidis fought on the undercard and had a very exciting fight to watch, and the Linares-Larios undercard fight was exciting as well. So maybe I should of gotten it. Once I was the fight, I will be able to judge the results better.

 

 

[Attorney General 41]

The two undercard fights on the Hopkins-Winky venue were both solid fights. The Katsidas fight in particular was stellar. I don't think HBO is going to replay them during this weeks replay of the Hopkins victory. But also on that card is a fight between Vernon Forrest and Carlos Baldomir. I want to say that the fight is at 154, but I can't be sure. Either way, I'm just happy to see Vernon fight again. He wasn't the most enthralling guy to watch, but like Hopkins, he was effective. Sucks that he had to endure all his shoulder problems.

 

And in other news...Oscar De La Hoya discussed his potential next opponent could be Ricky Hatton. Of coarse, in typical De La Hoya fashion, he announces these intentions about 10 months before we could see this fight materialize. He knows just how to build up an event...and Hatton has more than his share of supporters that could combine to break more revenue records for live gate and PPV. Does the fight have potential? Yes. Will it materialize...at this point though...who knows?

[TDP992 91]

Ironically, Ricky Hatton also signed for a fight with Pretty Boy Floyd as well. Luckily, we only have to wait until December for the fight, not ten months. I'll definitely be pulling for Hatton in this one.

[Burning-Ice 0]

Saw the B-Hop fight, Hops clearly won it. Wright didn't look as good as I thought he would, but it's tough to look good against a rough vet like Bernard. I think Chad Dawson would be able to beat Bernard, but I would like to see Dawson pick up his activity. He looked great vs Adamek but I think he still has a lot to prove before he can be consdered elite.

 

PBF vs Hatton should be an interestinng fight. Ultimately, I think PBF's footwork, superior defense, and heart will see him through the fight. Hatton really has never fought a guy who doesn't stand infront of him and take shots, off the top of my head the only notable guys I recall Hatton fighting at Maussa, Tsyzu, Castillo, Oliveria, Urango, and Collazo. Collazo did box Hatton a bit and he was extremely successful but Collazo is a natural 147 pounder, PBF is not. Other than that, every other guy Hatton has faced has no similairites in style with PBF. Maybe Hatton's hold and hit style will end up being PBF's downfall, IMO I think Paul Williams would beat PBF and do it easily.

[Attorney General 41]

 

Saw the B-Hop fight, Hops clearly won it. Wright didn't look as good as I thought he would, but it's tough to look good against a rough vet like Bernard.

 

A rational person...finally! I've run into no less than a half-dozen of my delusional friends who tried to tell me that Winky earned the win over Hopkins because of his workrate. Ignorance is bliss, right?

 

Vernon Forrest is back in business at 154 lbs with his domination of Carlos Baldomir. It looked like his shoulder has finally healed properly. He established his always effective one-two combo, his strong right uppercut and his killer straight right hand. Baldomir had to walk through fire just to get close enough to Forrest to land a few shots. All in all...good fight. It wasn't all that competitive, but it was entertaining. And it's great to see Forrest back near the top of his division...not only is he a great character guy, he's a hell of a fighter too.

 

And check this out. Sugar Shane Mosley signed to fight Miguel Cotto on November 10 at Madison Square Garden. To me this is one of the most exciting fight the sport can put together right now. Should be absolutely amazing to see Shane's quick, counterpunching philosophy match up against Cotto's pressure and effective body punching. However it turn out...it figures to be one hell of a fight. props to Bob Arum and De La Hoya/ Richard Scheaffer for putting their differences aside to make a great fight...and some money.

[OBrien97 4]

What is this "work rate" sh*t that has been f*cking up the boxing game... "the busier man wins the fight" What ever happened to clean effective punching... Max Kellerman had a good quote during that fight... "When i score a round. I try to think of which guy I'd rather be for that round" ... genius... who does the more damage... who gets cleaner punches off... that should be the winner...

[Attorney General 41]

What is this "work rate" sh*t that has been f*cking up the boxing game... "the busier man wins the fight" What ever happened to clean effective punching...

Hell yes. The two most important things for me, when judging a fight, are clean effective punching and ring generalship. For me, work rate only comes into the equation when all other things are equal.

 

Pernell Whitaker is a prime example of how to dictate the pace of a fight. At the same time he would get in quick, accurate shots and get out of the way. And if you landed a punch on him, it normally just grazed him. In his prime, his opponents could never hit him clean enough to hurt him badly...let alone win a few rounds.