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technomm

America and Iran both religious

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technomm

Neither I've been to America nor to any other western country to date.But i have some American friends on my messenger list, ranging from 40 to 50 years old(too old for a 20 years old guy like me!) so I'm to some extent familiar with American culture.Most of them are Christian and kind of dogmatic people.Others including a 50 years old man from Texas are non-Christian and even atheist.The Texan man complains about the way people of Texas(If not the whole America)think.He says that being a non-Christian in an American Christian family is sort of inconvenience cause the family and people usually go on to preach the man that you're not a God-loving person or whatever.

That being said,I'm pointing out to the fact that religion ,unlike in the US,is not a big matter in Europa(Read this).

As you know,the homosexuality phenomena was popularized and formalized in Europefirst and then expanded to the other western countries like America.And still,in some of the American states same-sex marriage is not permitted and it's not legal.Holland amongst european countries is known for holding the most homosexual population and same-sex marriages...Churches are still weighty in the American society,be they Christian,Satanic or African American etc.

Iranians and Americans are very similar in this manner.Most of Iranians are religious and bigot believers as are a high percent of Americans into religion .That's why some of my American friends call Islam a demoniac faith and Muhammad 'the doom prophet'.Major population of Iran can't stand gay/lesbian marriage and relations as well as born out of wedlock children and before-marriage sex.Though it may seem a bit ridiculous,but i think most (if not all) of the black metal,death metal and alike music genres are popular and mainstream in the US more than anywhere else due to their demonic ,mythological and religious theme..As such,these demonic musical styles are being widespread and common between Iranian youth,although they're underground because the Islamic regime won't tolerate them.

I'm telling religion has caused a very similar effect in both Iranian and American societies.But this effect is sort of different according to their respective,influential religion teachings.However the European society is more free thinking and progressive for not favoring religions much, in my humble opinion.

Thank you for reading and please don't get me wrong,I'm not an anti American at all.I like western culture and have respect toward it.

Finally,i ask you to correct me if I'm wrong anyway.

 

Edited by technomm

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Svip

You are not going off track, it is true.

 

However. Europe has been less religious not so many years ago. This is probably due to large American culture influence, which undoubtedly brings a lot of religious messages along. Though, in comparison, Europe is a lot less religious than Iran and America in question.

 

This topic reminds me of Stephen Colbert comparing the US and Iran, as Iran being like what America was in the 70's, and America being like what Iran was in the 70's. Needless to say, I laughed.

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maximoGTA
As you know,the homosexuality phenomena was popularized and formalized in Europefirst and then expanded to the other western countries like America.

I agree with some of the points you make, but to describe ‘homosexuality as a phenomena which started in Europe’, is crazy. You talk of it as if it’s a craze. Homosexual relations have been going on since the birth of humanity, everywhere on the planet. ‘Formalized in Europe’, what on earth do you mean by this?

 

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shaboobala

I get what you're saying, and I agree somewhat. However, you're comparing two countries and a continent. While It's okay to generalize a bit in regards to America and Iran because it serves your point, when you say 'European society is more free thinking and progressive for not favoring religions much, in my humble opinion.' you are generalizing across many countries that have starkly different cultures and languages. While some (or many) of these countries are indeed not religious, some are quite devout(Italy, Poland).

 

Mainly, the countries of Europe are too different to be lumped together and compared along side America and Iran, which are individual nations with their own languages and customs. If you compared North America, The Middle East and then Europe it would make a lot more sense in my mind. Nevertheless, similarities can be drawn between America and Iran.

 

 

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Im Rick James B**ch!

 

As you know,the homosexuality phenomena was popularized and formalized in Europefirst and then expanded to the other western countries like America.

I agree with some of the points you make, but to describe ‘homosexuality as a phenomena which started in Europe’, is crazy. You talk of it as if it’s a craze. Homosexual relations have been going on since the birth of humanity, everywhere on the planet. ‘Formalized in Europe’, what on earth do you mean by this?

Although it is poorly expressed, i think he means that homosexuality first became accepted (Probably a poor term. Perhaps less ostracized would be more fitting) in Europe. I can not comment on the validity of this, however, when considering Western Europe's (obviously a generalization) sexual "openness", this conclusion seems coherent enough.

 

 

Though it may seem a bit ridiculous,but i think most (if not all) of the black metal,death metal and alike music genres are popular and mainstream in the US more than anywhere else due to their demonic ,mythological and religious theme.

Black metal, which is stereotypically the most satanic of metals, is most popular in Norwegian countries. In regards to death metal, it stereotypically focus on brutality rather than satanism. Therefore i believe your conclusion about the origin of its popularity is a bit of a leap.

Edited by Im Rick James B**ch!

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Svip
Black metal, which is stereotypically the most satanic of metals, is most popular in Norwegian countries.

You are aware that the Norwegians only have one country? Known as Norway. I think you mean Nordic countries.

 

Point is, there are religion in Europe, but the difference is that alternatives is much more tolerated by the general population.

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TerminalGTA

It is very difficult to generalize on Europe. When you consider the massive differences that there are. I mean just to give you examples. You cannot very well conclude that over 40 countries think exactly the same. It is not even prudent to say that countries in EU think the same.

 

I think even more it would not even be that wise to compare even say France and Britain to be similar. The differences are vast in Europe because there are many different races and although countries like Slovakia and Macedonia may be close to each other only several 100 miles apart. They have drastically different ideologies.

 

I feel you generalize better when you take one country as the example. USA is ruled from Washington therefore there have to similarity even between California and Florida, in legal system, government policy and both would consider themselves "Americans"

 

In Europe France and England are much closer and are part of Europe and better yet part of the European Union, but you can generalize and compare between the two much less as they share much less common ground.

 

a) ruled by two different governments

b) Speak different languaged

c) don't consider themselves Europeans before French and British

d) big difference in customs and culture.

 

There would be many more differences of course, but those are some of the big ones.

 

In some respect I would assume Iran is much less of generalization in that I suspect there are many dialects and different cultures within the country.

 

I dunno, generalizations generally aren't very general, things are always vastly more complex.

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technomm
As you know,the homosexuality phenomena was popularized and formalized in Europefirst and then expanded to the other western countries like America.

I agree with some of the points you make, but to describe ‘homosexuality as a phenomena which started in Europe’, is crazy. You talk of it as if it’s a craze. Homosexual relations have been going on since the birth of humanity, everywhere on the planet. ‘Formalized in Europe’, what on earth do you mean by this?

I didn't say that homosexuality 'started' first somewhere!

Of course homosexuality existed in all the ancient societies and afterwards specially in the old greece and middle east.But I was speaking about homosexuality in the modern era.Also the concept of homosexuality in the old time was different,to some extent,from what is known now.

Not a long time ago, most of the world nations and governments weren't(and still some are not) favoring homosexuality much until famous psychologists recognized it as a natural desire,aptitude and gave it 'formal' credit.Therefore gays and lesbians marriage became formal 'first in Europe' and the European governments acknowledged it as a natural desire/propensity and supported their civil rights equal to other groups of people.Subsequently and gradually,other (mostly western)nations including America began a social reform that changed the way homosexual persons were looked upon by common people.

A clear example is George Michael who expressed in some interviews that he discovered his gayness when he was a very young boy(80's), but due to the community standards of that time,George wasn't willing to make his homosexuality known to the public...

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technomm
I get what you're saying, and I agree somewhat. However, you're comparing two countries and a continent. While It's okay to generalize a bit in regards to America and Iran because it serves your point, when you say 'European society is more free thinking and progressive for not favoring religions much, in my humble opinion.' you are generalizing across many countries that have starkly different cultures and languages. While some (or many) of these countries are indeed not religious, some are quite devout(Italy, Poland).

 

Mainly, the countries of Europe are too different to be lumped together and compared along side America and Iran, which are individual nations with their own languages and customs. If you compared North America, The Middle East and then Europe it would make a lot more sense in my mind. Nevertheless, similarities can be drawn between America and Iran.

You didn't understand what i was telling.When i compare an 'apparently' continent like Europe and America as a seemingly individual country/nation,of course i'm mindfully doing that, otherwise i'm aware of the facts you pointed out.

In my opinion, both Europe and America can be seen as a single country/nation.I have some reasons for this.One is that,as a matter of fact,America has a fully mixed population and culture.You see,there are German,Frenches,Italians,Chinese,Iranian...people all over the US.America can be considered as a single continent, populated with different nations;languages,people of several races etc, like Europe with several countries and nations.Also don't forget that the majority of Americans are originally immigrated Europeans.

You say Italy is a mostly devout country in Europe and i answer with saying 'texas is a mostly religious state too'!Yes,the US has a population of around 300 millions.Though i have no idea of the Italy's population but i'm sure it's nothing when compared to that of the us.So it's fair to compare a state of America(Texas for instance) and a country in Europe(Italy as you noted) while keeping in mind my expressions in the last paragraph.

Enough said and i hope you've got it!

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shaboobala

 

You didn't understand what i was telling.When i compare an 'apparently' continent like Europe and America as a seemingly individual country/nation,of course i'm mindfully doing that, otherwise i'm aware of the facts you pointed out.

In my opinion, both Europe and America can be seen as a single country/nation.I have some reasons for this.One is that,as a matter of fact,America has a fully mixed population and culture.You see,there are German,Frenches,Italians,Chinese,Iranian...people all over the US.America can be considered as a single continent, populated with different nations;languages,people of several races etc, like Europe with several countries and nations.Also don't forget that the majority of Americans are originally immigrated Europeans.

You say Italy is a mostly devout country in Europe and i answer with saying 'texas is a mostly religious state too'!Yes,the US has a population of around 300 millions.Though i have no idea of the Italy's population but i'm sure it's nothing when compared to that of the us.So it's fair to compare a state of America(Texas for instance) and a country in Europe(Italy as you noted) while keeping in mind my expressions in the last paragraph.

Enough said and i hope you've got it!

 

I disagree once again, Europe cannot be seen as a single country/nation. Perhaps in some limited contexts it can but here, where it is put alonside two countries(in two other continents), it cannot work.

 

You are also saying effectively, that the U.S. can be considered a continent(yet also a nation?) because it is so much bigger in scale when put alongside any European nation and that it has a diversity in culture from state-to-state that rivals diversity on the European continent.

 

I can tell you, from my own experience (since from your own admittance, you've never been to America/'The West') that although there are big differences between people from area-to-area, the U.S. still keeps one language and assimilation occurs between all immigrants and cultures over time. So that the primary culture in America is still "American".

 

Also, despite popular beleif "the south" is not spectacularily more religious than the rest of the country, and the majority of religious views in the U.S. still fall within catholicism . In Europe, countries speak different languages and especially in the east, society is still very homogenous and there is little change or integration between nations. Also, there is a clear three-way divide in Europe between Orthodox, Catholic & protestant Christianity, along with big differences in beleif. The Divide in America between Catholicism and Baptism is not nearly as pronounced.

 

At least for me, if I'm making a comparison on a large scale I try to keep things within the same category (continent w/ a continent).

Anyway, this is nitpicking & getting off topic, I just wanna debate stuff tounge.gif .

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K^2

You are right, shaboobala. United States is diverse, culturally, but all that diversity is mixed together into something nearly homogenious, and there is not nearly as much difference between the states as there is between countries in Europe. Still, it seems fair to compare Europe to United States, if you keep in mind these differences. Western Europe, at any rate. With all their differences, there are trends that are common to many countries of Western Europe. For example, it seems to me that sexual content in games and media is a lesser concern than in the States, while violence in the same is a greater concern. This points towards more liberal and less religious atmosphere in Europe compared to the US. This is not to say that all of Europe is necessarily less religious, but on average, most countries there seem to be.

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TerminalGTA

I guess it really is dependant on the European country. Countries such as Portugal, Italy, and Spain to name a few are quite religious. I think the move away from religion is a very recent one, and is probably quite prevalent in America, at least to a higher degree than you may think.

 

But to blanket Muslim Turkey and Protestant UK as "Europe" is not correct in my opinion it would be fairer to say "Western Europe" but then their are substantial difference between the states of Alabama and New York, especially when it comes to religious uptake and custom.

 

I think rural communities no matter where are more likely to be religious. The example of Portugal where in Lisbon there is a much wider array of beliefs, but if you go to a Portuguese village anywhere rural, almost everyone is Roman Catholic, all baptized.

 

In many ways I expect that in Iran this happens to a lesser degree. Islam seems to me much more formalized in that it has a stricker rule set as to how a muslim acts compared to a christian. But if you go to Tehran, I bet there would be plenty of non believers and plenty who do not pray five times a day.

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technomm

I found an interesting article, relevant to this topic:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m037...i_n6143340/pg_1

Also,i had a conversation with one of those devout American christians that i mentioned in the first post.Just a quote from her:"yes the usa is more religious than europe...even the gay people here are religious...usa is not as liberal as europe....most of the liberal thinking almost always goes to europe..." and she continued with explaining to me what the bible teaches and what's its command towards homosexuals...

Edited by technomm

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Nucflash

If Turkey is admitted into the UN, then Europe will becoe relegous. It will become Muslim....

 

What are your views on overthrowing a country via immigration? Are you for it?

 

Would you like millions of Christians or Jews moving to Iran and voting for christian or jew politicians? Would your government EVEN ALLOW THAT? cry.gif You do not need to answer that.

 

The fact is europe is killing itself by being too politically correct. That is why the number one baby boy name in Great Britian is Mohammad.

 

Virtually the same, allthough not relegously fieled in aerica with mexico. If texas were to be occupied 51% by mexicans, then could vote in a mexican leader, and succeed from the union....Literally.... Takeover by immigration. Non violent, and protected by the bleeding hearts who think there is no such war as a non violent war.

 

 

In my opinion, if we all just stay were we are, we will be fine.....

Edited by Nucflash

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TerminalGTA

Being a resident and having the right to vote are two different things.

 

British Muslims are British, they have been in Britain for several generations. Remember that also there were concessions given to ex-British empire countries on citizenship, I believe these have now been changed meaning that if your born in Jamaica, India, Pakistan etc. you do not automatically get British Citizenship. Therefore if your not a British Citizen but a foreign national living in Britain you cannot vote.

 

All Candidates of British government must also be "British".

 

I'm pretty sure the top baby name is not Mohammed and Mohammed is more of title than a name. In Britain the Muslim population still make up less than 10% of the total population. They are an important demographic, but it does not suggest that the Muslim faith is taking over in Britian

 

If Turkey were admitted into the EU, their people could move to Britain, but would have to gain British citizenship, which involves a lot of work to vote. Mohammed Al Fayed has been in this country for 30 years if not more and he still can't vote and is not a citizen of Britain. He owns Harrods and his son died with Princess Diana in Paris, in case you don't know who he is.

 

 

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Nucflash

MO-HAM LIKELY 1st MOST POPULAR NAME

 

Sorry, moham is 2nd now, most likely 1st in a year.

 

Allthough only 10% of the nation, take into consideration the BIRTH RATE. CHILDREN PER WOMAN. In uslim countrys the birth rate ranges from 5 to 8 kids. Britain on the other hand is probably 1 or 2. Dont froget that more than 2 children causes rise in population even after parents are dead.

 

Those BORN there, can get into politics I believe. And there are MANY muslims being born there. And again, the massive birthrate for muslims ensures that country does not have long to do something about it.

 

If you disagree, please show me some math projections of muslim populaion there. I will try to make a graph projeting the next 100 years for great britain... using moderate birth rates for both muslim and non muslim....

 

----------------------------------------

 

Ok, heres the deal. You said that Muslims made up 10% of the UK. From what I am reading they only mke up 2.7%

UK Fertility rate is 1.66 children per woman, this includes muslims. So the total of non muslim fertility rate is probably about 1.2 children per woman. Worldwide muslim birth rate is between 4 and 7 children per woman. We will assume UK muslims are on the low end of that scale, at 4 children per woman.

 

Now lets assume that there is a universal 50% chance of havign a daugher. Lets also assume each daughter has children at the age of 25, repeating each earlier generations birth rate.

 

In this formula w are counting girls only. So considering there is 50 50 chance of hacing a girl, we can cut the fertility rate in half. This means non muslims are at 0.6 daughters per woman, and muslims are at 2 daughters per woman.

 

Now.... Lets takg a group of 1000 non muslim, and 1000 muslim women.

 

Now, look at what happens to the daughter count every 25 years...

Non Muslims

Year : Daughter Count

2000 : 600 (notice that 1000 women only make 600 daughters the first generation)

2025 : 360 (yet another decline, that earlier 600 now only make 360....)

2050 : 216

2075 : 130

2100 : 78

 

As you can see at the end of 100 years, that inital 1000 women capable of giving birth hav dwindled down to 78, due to a birth rate of only 0.6 daughters per women.... Now for kicks, lets assume everyone involved is still alive, and add them all up.... That inital 1000 women is responsible descendants of 1,384 women.

 

Now the muslims...

 

Year : Daughter Count

2000 : 2000 (right off the bat, that 1000 women make 2000 daughters)

2025 : 4000

2050 : 8000

2075 : 16,000

2100 : 32,000

 

Assuming they maintain that 2 daughter per woman rate, the number over 100 years grew from 1000, to 32,000. Now again for kicks, lets add up all the muslims assuming theyre stll alive. They total 62,000 women descendants from 1000 women over 100 years.

 

62,000 vs 1,384

Each originating from only 1000....

Now start adding 0's to that.... Because were not talking thousands, were talking millions.

There are 60,776,000 people in UK. Roughly half women, roughly 50% of those in birthing age. Thats about 15 million women at birthng age... Now take 2.7% of them (estimate) which is 405,000 muslim women in birthing age.

 

What the hell, heres real #s for muslms...

2000 : 810,000

2025 : 1,620,000

2050: 3,240,000

2075 : 6,480,000

2100 : 12,960,000

 

now wait, theres still 14.5 million non muslim women of birthing age right! Thats Alot.... Think again...

2000: 8,700,000

2025 : 5,220,000

2050 : 3,132,000

2075 : 1,879,200

2100 : 1,127,520

 

So 14,500,000 vs 405,000 now turns into 1,127,520 vs 12,960,000. In 100 years there will be 12 muslim women for every 1 non muslim women at the current rate...

 

So at current REAL numbers , potental is there for a explosion of nearly 13 million muslim women by the year 2100, as non muslims steadily decline...

 

That 2.7% suddenly starts to jump greatly, not by 1 or 2%, but by factors of 15%... Untill your country is gone, and it has been lost to a non violent war. being politically correct is the greatest ally of a non violent takeover.

 

Not that you canget your women to start spittin out babys, allthough that could solve things (modern women arent into being housewives anymore), but ya might want to get a handle on IMMIGRATION.....

Edited by Nucflash

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TerminalGTA

That is very very generalised. A child in the UK costs the parents several thousand, if not tens of thousands to raise. To raise 4 children, you would need to be attaining a decent income. So to suggest that every Muslim person in UK can have 4+ children cannot be true.

 

In Arab and African countries, the children even when they are young they are put to work and help, and the cost of raising children is much less because of the reduced cost of living.

 

The truth is that, a true democracy should be ran by the people, and if there are more Muslims in the UK than other faiths then it would make sense that a Muslim Prime Minister be in charge of the country. I can probably guarantee that in my lifetime I will not see a Muslim Prime Minister in the UK.

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Nucflash

Dont think cost of raising a child stops anyone from having kids... UK and USA are both welfare states, offering up a minimum standard if the parent cannot afford it.

 

The muslim relegion itself does not allow birth control, which is another reason why money or not, they will be crankin out kids. Yet another is that most of the time the women must stay home, and when that is the case, child birthign and raising is the primary duty...

 

Funny thing about "AFFORDING CHINDREN"... Those in America who have the most kids ARE the ones who cannot afford a single child usually, odd thing is wealthier famalies tend to have less children.

 

When you get that Muslim PM.... Will your children be paying Jizyah?

 

 

I would really like to know Iranians would allow Jews to immigrate, and produce children equally greater than the muslims using the same formula as muslims in UK...

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Im Rick James B**ch!

In my opinion, the best action for the UK would be to culturally oppress these immigrants. If done seemingly unintentionally, this could effectively change their ideologies. "But wouldn't oppression cause them to revolt and develop an even more opposing disposition?" Perhaps, if done with flagrant intention.

 

Cultural oppression is simple. Create a society were success can only be obtained through conforming to the majority ideology. Still, In no way should racism (of the physical) be advocated. Racism unifies minorities. If you wish to maintain your majority, this is not desired. That was America's mistake. To discriminate against what cannot be changed is a self detrimental concept. "f*ck that! If i cant fit in, i might as well rebel." A summation of history.

 

 

 

 

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K^2

That is a horrible idea. I know it sounds like it should work, but that's exactly why it has been tried so many times before, and why we know that it doesn't work.

 

The problem is that every religion-centered ideology will teach its followers that there are bad people out there who will try to force them to cast aside their beliefs. You'd only be proving it right with such direct action, making the belief stronger.

 

No, you must create an environment where everyone has equal rights and opportunities regardless of their religion. That's the only way. You show people that there are good things in life regardless of what they believe. You also provide them with education, which doesn't attempt to prove religion wrong, but shows alternatives. Finally, let the pop culture do its thing. The current generation of religious parents might still be very strict on their children, but the next generation is likely to soften, giving their kids opportunity to immerse themselves in popular colutre, mass media, and other forms of entertainment. In two generations, they'll care more about the brand of their jeans and the artist of the music blasting out of their ear phones than about which deity they worship.

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Im Rick James B**ch!

 

That is a horrible idea. I know it sounds like it should work, but that's exactly why it has been tried so many times before, and why we know that it doesn't work.

 

The problem is that every religion-centered ideology will teach its followers that there are bad people out there who will try to force them to cast aside their beliefs. You'd only be proving it right with such direct action, making the belief stronger.

 

No, you must create an environment where everyone has equal rights and opportunities regardless of their religion. That's the only way. You show people that there are good things in life regardless of what they believe. You also provide them with education, which doesn't attempt to prove religion wrong, but shows alternatives. Finally, let the pop culture do its thing. The current generation of religious parents might still be very strict on their children, but the next generation is likely to soften, giving their kids opportunity to immerse themselves in popular colutre, mass media, and other forms of entertainment. In two generations, they'll care more about the brand of their jeans and the artist of the music blasting out of their ear phones than about which deity they worship.

You have interpreted my comment as implying direct oppressive action. This is not the case (perhaps i was reckless with my choice of terms). I was not proposing that we force our beliefs upon them or discriminate against those of Muslim belief (i even stated that such action would cause revolt and the formation of more opposing ideologies). Instead, i was advocating the idea of using society and mainstream culture to compel them to the majority ideology. Such an idea is not far from your own and is rather simple, in theory at least.

 

For starters, an environment were religious belief does not define identity must be established. This is, in practice, unachievable. Nevertheless, a neutral religious environment free of mainstream religious recognition is, to some extent, a more practical contingency.

 

With such an environment established, "recruiting" of the majority ideology can begin. Now, as you elucidated, this would not effect the migrating generation. They would be too loyal to their own ideologies. This does not matter however. The risk is really imposed by the continuation of such ideologies, therefore, it is the future generations whose conversion is required. This is a much easier feat because their exposure to the majority ideology begins before they have reached an age of longterm ideological formation. They are vulnerable to the effects of mainstream culture, and their ideologies, present and future, will be influenced by mainstream culture.

 

If an environment exists were mainstream media does not recognize religion, the overall ideologies are going to be somewhat contradictory to the codes of certain religions. For example, open and active sexuality may become a much more mainstream ideology. This contradicts the beliefs of certain religions (eg. the Catholic faith) yet in no way directly oppresses any religion. Instead, such strategy utilizes discreet cultural manipulation for the means of oppression. Future generations, who are vulnerable to such mainstream culture, will now have a disposition which contradicts that of their inherited religion. They may not loose their belief of the religious concept, for example, the existence of God, but they will no longer be confined to the codes and finer beliefs of said religion. Instead they will have fragmented from the concept of communal religion and will conversely perceive religion as a "personal matter" where belief is based on modern values instead of inherited codes.

 

This leads to two possible outcomes:

1. A communally accepted religious perspective based on modern values is formed. This would solve the problem because such modern values would be those of the majority, consequently, their execution by Government would not be detrimental if the beliefs are mutual to the previous majority.

 

2. Belief would be perceived as a personal matter. Consequently, a Muslim Government couldn't be established through popularity because everyone has their own interpretation of what it means to be Muslim.

 

I consider such tactic as "strategic oppression."

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Nucflash

I think the UK needs to end immigration from certain countries. Culturally oppressing them is a option and could be done correctly as you said, to slowly make them not want to be there, but the trouble is they gain control once their population reach a critical mass. And many think that critical mass is a mere 20% of population. While many in great Britain may not vote, better believe 100% of the Muslims will vote.

 

I hate to say it but i think it would require not only cutting off all immigrant flow of Muslims, but some deportation on top of closing all mosques. Then UK promoting marriage and non muslim families having atleast 3 children.

 

K^2 saying : “In two generations, they'll care more about the brand of their jeans and the artist of the music blasting out of their ear phones than about which deity they worship. “

 

I disagree, Muslim culture has changed little in hundreds of years. Maybe what you say would work if you killed off the parents and allowed those children no access to islam LOL.

 

The original post seemed to look at USA badly because we do not permit men to marry each other basing a religious union on a same sex fetish, however he failed to mention that IRAN STILL HANGS HOMOSEXUALS!

 

Nobody is against minority & cultural variety. But after countries are built, some people come in and try to change the country. Muslims who go to Great Britain and multiply in massive numbers are there for that reason. This is being preached in mosques around the world. They know that 75% of people kiss ass of other religions...As long as they invade peacefully, they will be assisted by the weak who refuse to acknowledge the facts.

 

Ask our Iranian friend how his country would treat Non Muslims who moved to Iran and started to have 4 times the children as Iranians. Ask him how he would feel if in 100 years, the majority of irans population was Jewish? The most passive Muslim would agree that is a horrible idea. How many jews would it take for iran to BAN jews? 2%? 3%?

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RIPER

These sh*ts around Here? cry.gif

Anywhere isn't safe for my Brain now. suicidal.gif

F*ck

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technomm

Anyone thinking i'm a muslim,just look at my disrespect list,you'll know me correctly.I have currently no religion or faith at all and am searching to find the best logical ideology,even if it might be some idea like nihilism.

And to Nucflash:Yes,Iran's gov is islamic and is ran by islamic laws.I know they are islamist hardliners and won't tolerate non-muslims if their population grows dramatically over the muslims.However i agree with k^2 on that he says "they'll care more about the brand of their jeans and the artist of the music blasting out of their ear phones than about which deity they worship."At least for most of the Iranian last generation it seems very true.Here's some pics of a new years eve-like celebration in Iran held by youth like me:

user posted image

user posted image

http://www.vii.at/images/DSCN0392.JPG

And i feel i'll be flamed here in this forum because i revealed my nationality!I was stupid for opening this topic!F*CK! suicidal.gif

 

 

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RIPER

 

Iran's gov is islamic and is ran by islamic laws

whoaw wow.gifmercie_blink.gif

cops there shoot at the young chicks cry.gif THATS Islamic Laws

Please dont ban meeeee dontgetit.gif i live there like this brother icon14.gif (the persian style)

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