GTA IV for PC

[free_to_view]

These recent PC-release rumors sprouting up at numerous gaming sites must (hopefully) be putting a dent in GTA-only console sales, as people realize that the game will eventually be making it to PC.

Yh, so many gaming companies are giving out est dates for when they might see a PC version. They must know something atleast. Eyes open wide.

[spandex]

I saw this article:

 

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3165631

 

I think the numbers are pretty bias, though. They are PC sales... but compared to what? All console sales, or just one console? I smell crappy journalism.

 

Does anyone know what is a good number for sales on a game?

 

I thought I'd post it here because I thought these numbers might have to do with the late release of the PC version of GTAIV.

[CharmingCharlie]

To reinforce Spandex post about games sales I came across this article the other day :-

 

 

Myth #3: PC games don't sell, and are falling far behind console game sales

 

Sales tracking firm NPD said there were "over $970 million" in PC game sales, and $7.4 billion in total game sales. So, roughly a billion in sales for the PC, and $6.4 billion for consoles. Consoles are slaughtering PCs, right? Actually, it's not that simple.

 

First of all, it's a stacked deck. The PC is one platform, the Xbox 360 is one platform, the PlayStation 3 is one platform, the Nintendo DS is one platform, etc. If you make a game for the PS3, it doesn't magically run on the 360 any more than it magically runs on the PC. PC game sales as tracked by NPD are being beat over 6:1 by the combination of all console platforms. Of course it is! NPD did not provide a breakdown by platform (except for the PC), though. Divvy up that $6.4 billion in console sales into its respective separate platforms: Xbox, PS2, Gamecube, Xbox 360, PS3, Wii, Gameboy Advance, Nintendo DS, and PSP. There are at least nine major "console" platforms, each as incomparable to each other as the PC is to consoles, contributing to that $6.4 billion in sales. If the distribution were even (and it's not), you'd have about $711 million per console platform. Now, the PC is leading! Of course, consoles like the PS2, Nintendo DS, and Xbox 360 had the lion's share of game sales, while newer and more expensive systems like the PS3 with a more limited software lineup had less. It's safe to assume, in the absence of specific console-by-console data, that PC game sales fell somewhere in the middle of the pack—behind the top few console systems, and ahead of several others. You could certainly characterize the PC as selling games at retail "just as well" as "the average console system."

 

But there's even more to it than that. First of all, NPD only tracks retail sales, and only in the U.S.. Yes, the U.S. has the strongest retail games market, but PC games are very popular worldwide. Especially in Europe, and Germany in particular, PC game sales top sales charts. Most importantly, the PC is well ahead of consoles in online game sales—which NPD does not track. Whether it's GameTap, Steam, Direct2Drive, TotalGaming.net, or even the direct download store at the EBgames site, buying games exclusively online is huge on PCs. And that doesn't even include things like recurring payments or digital item sales for online games like World of Warcraft. Research firm Strategy Analytics said that the global online games market generated over $3.8 billion in revenue in 2006, and is growing at over 25% per year. Yes, some of that is buying downloadable content on Xbox Live Arcade, Playstation Network, or Wii Virtual Console, but the money pulled in by those are a drop in the bucket, globally, to the online revenue generated by PC game sales.

 

Unfortunately, nobody is yet providing the kind of apples-to-apples data that lets us get a true picture of PC game sales. Take that "over $970 million" sales of PC games from NPD. That's just retail and just the U.S. Nobody is tracking online game sales for just the U.S. in a reasonably comprehensive way. Or if they are, they're not proving data, breaking it down by platform and by game sales & addons vs. recurring subscription fees. I don't think it's a stretch to say that several hundred million dollars worth of games & addons have happened online in the U.S.

 

All of a sudden, PC game sales don't look too shoddy. And they're especially attractive when you consider that third-party publishers don't have to fork over $7-10 per sale in royalties to a console developer.

 

So are the consoles grossly outselling PC games? Yes, in aggregate, but it's hardly fair or rational to compare multiple platforms against one. Viewed against any other single platform, PC game sales are quite good. Do the industry tracking firms show sharper growth among console game sales than PC game sales? Again yes, but this is a factor of PC game sales increasingly moving online, and thus not being tracked.

 

 

So all is not "lost" for the PC format as some people may suggest. You can see more PC myths dispelled here :-

 

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2188337,00.asp

[DML]

 

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3165631

Reading the article, it's funny how people, not wanting to face the truths about the impact that console manufacturer and game publisher contracts have on not just the PC gaming industry, but the entire gaming industry, still put most of their naive blame on piracy.

 

A lot of people actually come here, into this thread, and try to blame piracy for the reason PC game sales are dropping. Let me explain why it is not so...

 

Software piracy has been around for many years, dating back to the beginning of software itself. Piracy climbed with the rise of the internet, and today, is quite a large problem...when taken at face value.

 

Sure, it's a problem to have people stealing games etc. However, intelligent people in the software market, and this applies to music and film markets as well, will know that there are two types of customers...

 

- Paying customers - These are regular customers, and will pay for the product.

- Non-paying consumers - These are not regular customers. They still acquire the product, but will not pay the manufacturer for it.

 

Now, the only factor which affects the game industry, is the number of non-paying customers who would've actually paid full price for the game, had they not've acquired it illegally. It is the opinion of many (and common sense), that the majority of non-paying customers would not have paid full price, but may, at some point in the future. The remainder, well, usually are either dirt-poor, extremely selfish, or don't use the game often enough to justify paying for it.

 

Game piracy, while existing on all platforms (not just the PC), is a conveniant "out" for game console manufacturers, console fanboys, brainless publishers/developers, brainless journalists, and brainless corporate executives, as it allows them to conceal the real reason that PC game sales are dropping.

 

If the PC received even half the games that the XBox or PS2 received, then PC game sales would most-likely overtake...but...since most developers these days are simple-sellouts, it looks as if only massive-budget studios, and independent studios, are all PC gaming currently have left.

 

Console fanboys need to take their heads out of the sand, their mouths off the genitals of the big-business console corporates, and realize that "next gen" means nothing, HD is only new for the TV and console world, and that PCs don't cost what they did 15 years ago. Until this is done, there will be no light at the end of the tunnel for the gaming industry...and even if some people can see a light now...it's only a freight train...and it's hauling a load of XBoxes.

Edited January 29, 2008 by DML

[Miccey]

Well if piracy is the problem just let met say this...

If PC games are gone, consolegames will be cracked

and distributed through PC warez. Mark my words...

The criminals in this buissness are ALLWAYS one step

ahead of the law..So they will only move the problem

from one platform to another...

[nlitement]

 

Well if piracy is the problem just let met say this...

If PC games are gone, consolegames will be cracked

and distributed through PC warez. Mark my words...

The criminals in this buissness are ALLWAYS one step

ahead of the law..So they will only move the problem

from one platform to another...

What does distributing console warez "through PC warez" mean? The scene has always had console games.

[Miccey]

There you go...Didnt know that you could download Console games through a PC,

burn it on a disc and play on your console...But then again, im not a console gamer.

 

LOL

[free_to_view]

Well if piracy is the problem just let met say this...

If PC games are gone, consolegames will be cracked

and distributed through PC warez. Mark my words...

The criminals in this buissness are ALLWAYS one step

ahead of the law..So they will only move the problem

from one platform to another...

Doesn't matter what platform it is, PIRACY is always going to be around.

 

I'll make this big so people can see it properly

 

YOU CAN GET PRIATED GAMES ON CONSOLES TOO SO DON'T LOOK AND POINT TO THE PC TO BLAME.

[jelly]

There you go...Didnt know that you could download Console games through a PC,

burn it on a disc and play on your console...But then again, im not a console gamer.

 

LOL

Pirating console games is easy, the only ridge is that you have to modify the console too because it's a toy (unlike a PC). That's a cost issue, not a difficulty issue. Also, console games are so ridiculously expensive that it's still economical to pirate them even with the mod chip or whatever it is they buy. Frankly, I have no idea why it's not more widespread. I guess consolers buy the propaganda that console games are so hard to pirate compared to PC games - well, they're not.

[nlitement]

jallar: There's a risk of getting your console and account b&, especially if you don't keep up with firmware/modchip updates.

[Fisker]

jallar: There's a risk of getting your console and account b&, especially if you don't keep up with firmware/modchip updates.

So what? That's the exactly same problem you'll face on the PC.

 

If you pirate a game, it'll usually not work online, because the servers can see you have a pirated copy, in the same way Xbox Live will also detect modchips and so on and it'll ban your console from Xbox Live.

 

The only difference is that your ban applies to the console, whereas on a PC it would usually be applied to a cd-key, or just not work.

 

You can still just stay offline though, and if piracy is such a big deal as they want to make it, it would obviously be the scenario that a pirate is a monster from hell who never pays for anything, and as such they wouldn't be subject to said ban in any case.

 

Console piracy is easier than PC piracy when the console's protection against backup copies have been broken, and when that happens there's even a bigger monetary benefit to pirating than there is on the PC.

[nlitement]

jallar: There's a risk of getting your console and account b&, especially if you don't keep up with firmware/modchip updates.

So what? That's the exactly same problem you'll face on the PC.

 

If you pirate a game, it'll usually not work online, because the servers can see you have a pirated copy, in the same way Xbox Live will also detect modchips and so on and it'll ban your console from Xbox Live.

Unless you play through Hamtaro (or whatever that software was called.. Hamachi, actually) on LAN or on cracked servers. It's possible to play warezed games online on the PC, and it's also possible to play bought games online while warezing, whereas f*cking up a warez even once on your 360 can completely stop you from playing any game at all online.

[s-paco]

jallar: There's a risk of getting your console and account b&, especially if you don't keep up with firmware/modchip updates.

So what? That's the exactly same problem you'll face on the PC.

 

If you pirate a game, it'll usually not work online, because the servers can see you have a pirated copy, in the same way Xbox Live will also detect modchips and so on and it'll ban your console from Xbox Live.

Unless you play through Hamtaro (or whatever that software was called.. Hamachi, actually) on LAN or on cracked servers. It's possible to play warezed games online on the PC, and it's also possible to play bought games online while warezing, whereas f*cking up a warez even once on your 360 can completely stop you from playing any game at all online.

With Hamachi u need to have a server name from someone so you can play with him. Cracked servers are pure sh*t, a friend of mine downloaded CSSource and played on cracked servers. All the people were using aimbots and stuff... pretty lame, now he bought CSSource and we can play against each other...

[nlitement]

jallar: There's a risk of getting your console and account b&, especially if you don't keep up with firmware/modchip updates.

So what? That's the exactly same problem you'll face on the PC.

 

If you pirate a game, it'll usually not work online, because the servers can see you have a pirated copy, in the same way Xbox Live will also detect modchips and so on and it'll ban your console from Xbox Live.

Unless you play through Hamtaro (or whatever that software was called.. Hamachi, actually) on LAN or on cracked servers. It's possible to play warezed games online on the PC, and it's also possible to play bought games online while warezing, whereas f*cking up a warez even once on your 360 can completely stop you from playing any game at all online.

With Hamachi u need to have a server name from someone so you can play with him. Cracked servers are pure sh*t, a friend of mine downloaded CSSource and played on cracked servers.

He should've downloaded it like 4 years ago when it was new and you could play on non-cracked servers, lol. I bought it in the end myself.

[GTA_Godfather]

It's hard to look at things in a positive light when the PC ports of games like GTA are 6 months behind the pipe. This just ruins everything (well, not everything, but almost). The wait is not the hard part. What's most unfortunate is that your experience will most likely be spoiled (unless you lock yourself in your basement and disconnect your TV/internet and cancel your subscriptions to any relevant gaming magazines).

 

If you're a GTA fan following the "goings on" leading up to the release, how do you possibly block out all the talk from console gamers??? I'm talking about MAPS, GAMEPLAY FEATURES, CARS, STORYLINE, CHARACTERS, EASTER EGGS, SIDE MISSIONS, and so on. Do you think you can honestly do it? Will you do it or will you just listen to it anyway??? What's your take?

 

Developers are basically giving PC gamers the back seat when the PC versions should the CENTERPIECE and SHOWCASE. There's no denying the PC's gaming capabilities far exceed that of the consoles. With consoles now having online capabilities, it's hard picture this trend reversing. Online play was once the sole domain the PC. HD flat panels (plasma and LCDs) aren't helping matters either.

 

I can wait the extra 6 months, but I think Sony and Microsoft know that most PC gamers won't be able to (mostly because they don't want to have their experience ruined by everyone else, like me). If it were some other crappy game where specifics were released to the public early on with actual pre-release demos being made available it wouldn't be such a big deal. THIS is different. It's different because of the way R* is so secretive about everything and releases SO FEW details. JUST the thought of hearing about actual gameplay and storyline from fanboys irritates me. PC gamers are getting the shaft on this one.

 

I was able to "tune out" all the post-console release GTA news with San Andreas, but this is SO different. It's been so long since that release and this will be a ground-breaking GTA based on the new RAGE engine utilizing Euphoria.

 

I'm having doubts whether I can block it all out. I'd seriously rather play it on a console than have my experience ruined by everyone else while I wait for the PC version to be released.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2008 by GTA_Godfather

[DML]

It's hard to look at things in a positive light when the PC ports of games like GTA are 6 months behind the pipe. This just ruins everything (well, not everything, but almost). The wait is not the hard part. What's most unfortunate is that your experience will most likely be spoiled (unless you lock yourself in your basement and disconnect your TV/internet and cancel your subscriptions to any relevant gaming magazines).

 

If you're a GTA fan following the "goings on" leading up to the release, how do you possibly block out all the talk from console gamers??? I'm talking about MAPS, GAMEPLAY FEATURES, CARS, STORYLINE, CHARACTERS, EASTER EGGS, SIDE MISSIONS, and so on. Do you think you can honestly do it? Will you do it or will you just listen to it anyway??? What's your take?

 

Developers are basically giving PC gamers the back seat when the PC versions should the CENTERPIECE and SHOWCASE. There's no denying the PC's gaming capabilities far exceed that of the consoles. With consoles now having online capabilities, it's hard picture this trend reversing. Online play was once the sole domain the PC. HD flat panels (plasma and LCDs) aren't helping matters either.

 

I can wait the extra 6 months, but I think Sony and Microsoft know that most PC gamers won't be able to (mostly because they don't want to have their experience ruined by everyone else, like me). If it were some other crappy game where specifics were released to the public early on with actual pre-release demos being made available it wouldn't be such a big deal. THIS is different. It's different because of the way R* is so secretive about everything and releases SO FEW details. JUST the thought of hearing about actual gameplay and storyline from fanboys irritates me. PC gamers are getting the shaft on this one.

 

I was able to "tune out" all the post-console release GTA news with San Andreas, but this is SO different. It's been so long since that release and this will be a ground-breaking GTA based on the new RAGE engine utilizing Euphoria.

 

I'm having doubts whether I can block it all out. I'd seriously rather play it on a console than have my experience ruined by everyone else while I wait for the PC version to be released.

 

Nicely said

 

I simple say to myself: If I could do it (bend over and be shafted up the ass by Rockstar and Sony) with GTA III, Vice City, and San Andreas...then another time is no big deal.

 

Most of the time the fanboys are so sh*t at relaying an experience (telling a story) etc, that what they said would be false anyway.

 

I'm sure all of us have been through it before, but here's my procedure for awaiting the PC version of a Grand Theft Auto game:

 

As soon as the console version(s) is/are released...

 

- Stop visiting GTA-related forums.

- Continue visiting GTA-related news sites (such as PlanetGTA etc) and gaming news sites in general

- If someone physically starts talking to you about the console version of the GTA game you're waiting for, simply sing to yourself and walk away. Or if that doesn't work, punch this person in the face.

- Keep checking those game news sites...as you are after three things...

- - 1) Confirmation of the PC release and the date

- - 2) Information for what features the PC version will have that the console one didn't

- - 3) At-least 1 screenshot taken at 1024x768, 1600x1200, 1680x1050, or even 2560x1600 etc (proper gaming resolutions)

 

After you've waited, and discovered these crucial three things, then it's time to visit the GTA forums (the ones infested with console fanboys), and begin spreading the news that their beta testing has finally paid off, and the PC release is at-hand. Then you can still abuse the f*ck out of Rockstar etc, while making fun of the console fanboys who thought (and still think) that they are getting the best GTA experience.

[jelly]

When GTA SA was released, I was on my 'forum hiatus', checking here only sporadically. I didn't know anything about the story, I barely even knew there was a new GTA game, and I didn't know the release date for the PC version. I was unable to care about it due to the quality level on the previous two ports they did. Hey, at least I didn't get it spoiled. Shame the storyline sucked.

 

Obviously, this time I'm back in a moderator-y capacity so I'll end up having every aspect of the game from the color of Niko's shoe soles to the secret of Bigfoot spoiled. Oh well.

[zmoonchild]

I hate to bring a downer on this subject, but the reality is that Rockstar hasn’t released any new PC games since June 7, 2005, when San Andreas was released.

I don’t think they have any intention of changing this trend, though I hope I’m wrong.

 

On the positive side though, this has encouraged me to purchase other PC games, such as Call of Duty 4, which is great.

I will also be purchasing Assassin’s Creed when it’s released in March.

 

So, ironically, I guess I could actually thank Rockstar for opening my eyes and making me realize that there are some really good PC games, other than the ones they produced (past tense).

 

One further irony for me is that I originally discovered San Andreas because Atari refused to release Driver: Parallel Lines for PC, so I went around searching for a substitute, now Rockstar has done the same thing that led me to them in the first place.

Eventually, Driver: Parallel Lines was released for PC, but under a different publisher.

 

By the way, Rockstar has made my Disrespect List.

Edited January 30, 2008 by zmoonchild

[DML]

 

...Rockstar hasn’t released any new PC games since June 7, 2005...

It's basically a technicality that they like to use every now and then.

 

When a company releases a real game (a PC game), they can officially call themselves "game developers" for the next 12 months. So, from June 2005 to June 2006, Rockstar were calling themselves "game developers"...now they are just console whores.

 

They will want another year of respect, so they will want to release it (GTA IV) on the PC sooner or later.

[maf]

Now that home console gaming has become more acceptable and respectable, the PC has been left in the wind a bit in recent years.

 

Obviously, there is more profit in producing a multi-format console game than just putting out a PC version.

 

Rockstar got hurt pretty badly by the Hot Coffee incident, so it wouldn't surprise me if they only give a passing thought to PC gamers these days, particularly where the GTA franchise is concerned.

[DML]

 

Obviously, there is more profit in producing a multi-format console game than just putting out a PC version.

Obviously. Although Playstation 2 was NOT "multi-format". And guess what... Playstation 3 and XBox 360 still isn't "multi-format".

 

It's more like "multi(2)-dicks-in-their-ass".

 

Now, PC and console releases, just like GTA 1 and 2, would be considered multi-format.

 

 

Rockstar got hurt pretty badly by the Hot Coffee incident...

 

If they didn't like the trouble they got into, then perhaps they shouldn't have shipped the game with that content included.

Edited January 30, 2008 by DML

[zmoonchild]

 

Rockstar got hurt pretty badly by the Hot Coffee incident, so it wouldn't surprise me if they only give a passing thought to PC gamers these days,

This is true, but there's no reason for Rockstar to disrespect PC Gamers for something that was clearly Rockstar's fault, especially after they lied and tried to say that they didn't create the Hot Coffee mini-game after it was first discovered by PatrickW.

 

There are some people that say they respect Rockstar, and those same people won't talk about Hot Coffee out of some sort of misguided respect, but why?

Why would anyone respect a company that lied and tried to cover things up?

 

I have already given Rockstar plenty of respect, in the form of money, by purchasing 7 of their PC games, along with the User Guides that went along with those games.

 

Respect goes both ways.

Edited January 31, 2008 by zmoonchild

[free_to_view]

If ROCKSTAR doesn't release GTA IV for the PC, there will be war and thousands NO millions of e-mails will be sent to them.

 

I think the last game that was on the PC from ROCKSTAR unless I'm wrong was GTA SANANDREAS. I checked out their website for games and that was the outcome.

 

Even these great games are not even mentioned to be coming to the PC. All I see is playstation 2, playstation 3, XBOX 360

And these games scream out for the PC,

• Midnight club: Los Angles
• Midnight club 3: Dub edition remix
• Bully
• Man Hunt 2
• The warriors

When I clicked onto BULLY, it says

 

 

RELEASE DATE: Out now for playstation 2, coming to xbox360 and Wii

 

TALK ABOUT BEING A CONSOLE BITCH

[nlitement]

GTA IV can only be fully realized on the PC.

[Smiler-Online]

if you think about it GTA IV must be released on pc cuz after all more money and the hot coffee mod wont make any differnce because now you can mod ps3 and 360 games too so if there is any signs of the hot coffee mod in gta iv the console gamers will pull it out

 

also another point quite a while back i was looking on take 2's page via a link

 

when i was looking wether gta vcs or lcs would be available on pc

i had found take 2 had made the statement there wont be another gta game on pc until 2008

 

now i cant find that link but i promise you thats no word of a lie ask a dedicated gta gamer if they can get the evidence for you and post it

but its a fact i saw that link... so dont worry ok have fun with it i know i will lol oh and i checked out a piture earlier with niko at the wheel of a motor and two blokes were chasing him if you look closely you'll notice that the animations are still kinda crap cuz the steering wheel doesnt turn still

well at least his fingers stay on the wheel this time and dont go through it lol

[CHRI5MAN]

OMG, good news smiler_16, i couldnt believe it when you said that rockstar wont keep making PC games untill 2008, just hope its true and if so they better bring out pc versions of GTAIV. And about the whole hot coffee stuff, why dont they just not make it in GTAIV, hello, it was 'inserted' in san andreas probably for a reason and that was a mistake they made, so why would they put one in GTAIV. i would of quoted the stuff you guys said but im not sure how to.

 

Anyway i cant wait for the game to come out on pc! it would be great!!!!!!

[GM Dude]

if you think about it GTA IV must be released on pc cuz after all more money and the hot coffee mod wont make any differnce because now you can mod ps3 and 360 games too so if there is any signs of the hot coffee mod in gta iv the console gamers will pull it out

 

also another point quite a while back i was looking on take 2's page via a link

 

when i was looking wether gta vcs or lcs would be available on pc

i had found take 2 had made the statement there wont be another gta game on pc until 2008

 

now i cant find that link but i promise you thats no word of a lie ask a dedicated gta gamer if they can get the evidence for you and post it

but its a fact i saw that link... so dont worry ok have fun with it i know i will lol oh and i checked out a piture earlier with niko at the wheel of a motor and two blokes were chasing him if you look closely you'll notice that the animations are still kinda crap cuz the steering wheel doesnt turn still

well at least his fingers stay on the wheel this time and dont go through it lol

How do you know people can mod either PS3 or Xbox games?

 

Well, I certainly hope it's true. Rockstar would do very well with

a PC version of GTA IV, or even VCS or LCS, imo.

[maf]

When I mean "multi-format", I mean a franchise like GTA going onto platforms like PlayStation, PSP, etc. There's obviously more profit going that way.

 

I don't feel sorry at all for Rockstar over Hot Coffee; they left a Pandora's Box in the game code which was always going to be found. Worse was the blame they placed on players rather than take the heat (initially), but that's all be said and the damage done.

 

I can probably see GTAIV coming to PC, but I still have doubts about it.

[DML]

 

When I mean "multi-format", I mean a franchise like GTA going onto platforms like PlayStation, PSP, etc. There's obviously more profit going that way.

Yes, but GTA has always been on Playstation.

 

Only, since GTA III, it's ONLY Playstation, whereas before it was PC and Playstation.

 

------------------------------------------------

 

On the piracy issue that I keep hearing people talk about in different threads, I will post my personal solution here:

 

When the game is released for PC, like many other PC games that I own, I will be buying it. Until then however, I will download a few hundred MB of the PS3 or XBox 360 version, and seed that data back to the thousands of people who download games illegally for console. (it will help get my ratio higher at one of the bit torrent sites that I'm a member of)

 

Remember...money CANNOT be lost on piracy now that the game is "console-only". Well...if that's true...then me seeding data from one of the console versions is totally harmless.

Edited January 31, 2008 by DML

[WillE]

I was reading a article about Grand Theft Auto IV on GamesRadar.com and they mentioned that the way the shooting was controled is as such: (it was shown to them on a Xbox 360) but anyways the way you lock onto a target is by holding the L tigger down all the way, at which point a ring will appear around your targer that has their health and when is that mode of aim you can target specific body parts with the right stick, while holding it down partly you will enable free aim which you will also be able to control with the right stick.

 

Now i dont exactly know how they could cross that type of control over to PC but it does make me think that there may be a less chance of a PC version, even though it would be pretty awesome.

 

But maybe the left mouse could be to lock on, and the right mouse to free aim. Who knows. I just can't wait for Grand Theft Auto IV!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

April 29, 2008!!!!