The Chain Game Rallies

June 26, 2007

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This used to be the first off-topic lounge for the chain games. Back when it started the discussions in here mainly focused on the development of rally races so ever since we've been having the new chain game off-topic lounge, this topic here is solely for

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The Chain Game Rallies

The chain game rallies are races/challenges that can be done either within a turn of the chain game (the modded saves provide the necessary vehicles in the appropriate garages) or by using the provided stand-alone save files. They are not scripted, so there won't be any markers to pass through (like in the in-game races) and you'll have to take your own time (screenshots).

The rallies are meant to be fun and they give players something to do between turns. If you think about giving them a try, don't let the medal standards put you off. They might look insanely difficult at first glance (they surely did for me when OrionSR first suggested them ) but with a bit of practice you'll get there. Feel free to ask about / discuss routes and strategies in this topic, OrionSR and I will be glad to help and get you going.

Some rallies have been quite finished and some are still work-in-progress, see below for links to the different sections. In this posting you'll find all currently valid details on the rallies as far as they have been developed. Some details are still subject to change and I'll put a list of unresolved issues and open questions at the end of this posting.

The Chain Game Rallies are developed by OrionSR and yours-truly, after an original idea by OrionSR.

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Contents / Links:

General Notes

Finished Rallies:

• Badlands Endurance

• Skipping Palomino

• Katie Jumps

Rallies in Development:

• Redsands Westking

• SWAT / FBI Vigilante

• Minigun Run (working title)

Open Issues

Last posting in this topic

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General Notes:

All save files are for the v2 version of the game. If you have v1, make sure you have your v2 scripts installed.
Switch your Frame Rate Limiter OFF. All races have been timed with this setting in mind.
Rallies marked **** take place in restricted territory.
Cheating is easy in all rallies. If you absolutely *have* to cheat, go ahead, we don't care (we might not accept your stunning record though). All this is purely for the fun of it anyway.

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Basically Finished Events:

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[bE] Badlands Endurance

Save File: <Badlands Endurance - Alt Garage Camera>

Using the modified Bullet provided with the save, complete the following Unique Stunt Jumps and return the black Bullet to the Palomino Creek garage as quickly as possible. Completing the jumps for the bonus is not required, but the jumps must at least be found to trigger the slo-mo camera angles. Jump numbers (#) referenced are from maps provided by dark52. The timer starts with the loading of the save at 00:00, and ends with a screenshot in the Palomino Creek garage. Optionally, the rally can be raced with other gamesaves, and an overall time recorded as the difference in time from the first checkpoint until the car is parked in the garage. Additional screenshots of jumps or other highlights may be included in the finishing screenshot.

Checkpoints:

Palomino Creek garage (Start)
Unique Jump #25 (Palomino Creek)
Unique Jump #27 (Montgomery Intersection)
Unique Jump #28 (Dillimore)
Unique Jump #9 (Unity Station)
Unique Jump #13 (Jefferson Pedestrian Overpass)
Palomino Creek garage (Finish)

Medals: (race starts at 00:00, so finishing clock = race time in minutes)

Platinum:	4:00	OrionSR 3:45 (would be 10:47 in the old save - way below 11:00!! Well done!!)
Gold:	4:20	rubregg 4:09 (was 11:11 in the old save which loaded at 07:02)
Silver:	4:40
Bronze:	5:00

Current Record: OrionSR - 3:45

Achievements: Finish with a gold medal time...

Tunnel Rat:	...using a route that includes 2 tunnels.	OrionSR
Scout:	...using a route without Tunnels.	OrionSR, rubregg
Frogger:	...using a route that jumps the river twice (checkpoint 1 + another).	OrionSR, rubregg
Stuntman:	...landing all 5 Unique Jumps for the bonus.	OrionSR
Rockstar:	...collecting 1 (or more) Bribes.	OrionSR
Lightweight:	...keeping all of the Bullet's lights intact.
Pro-Lap:	...taking a hooker along with you through the complete race	OrionSR

Notes:

In this Rally, exploring different routes, looking for shortcuts and finding new tricks is considered more important than trying to get the the number 1 time.

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[sP] Skipping Palomino

Save File: <Skipping Palomino - Alt Garage Camera>

Use the NRG-500 provided with the save to race from the Palomino Creek Safe House to Santa Maria Beach. You have a time limit of 4 minutes and 30 seconds and you have to jump the creek (over water) as many times as possible during the trip. The timer starts with the loading of the save at 16:30, and ends at 21:00 with a screenshot including a Yacht Harbor sign on the pier. Optionally, the rally can be raced with other gamesaves in any 4:30 minute stretch in which case an additional starting screenshot at the Palomio Creek garage has to be included. Additional screenshots of jumps or other highlights may be included in the finishing screenshot.

Restrictions:

Use a route that does not intersect with itself i.e. the route should not cross over the same spot.
The same section of creek/river/channel (subdivided by bridges) cannot be jumped twice in the same direction.
Jumps in a different direction but located in the same spot can only be used once.
Bridges can only be crossed once.
--> also see 'Notes' below

Map:

Here's a selection of 25 possible jump locations for your route-planning pleasures. [Yes. 25.]

Medals: Jump the creek...

Platinum:	13 times	OrionSR 14, rubregg 14
Gold:	11 times
Silver:	10 times
Bronze:	9 times

Current Record: 14 Jumps - OrionSR, rubregg

Achievements: Meet the standard for gold and...

Triple:	...score a number of triple insane stunts.	OrionSR 3, rubregg 3
Survivor:	...the NRG makes the splash sound during the event.	OrionSR, rubregg
Roofie:	...jump onto any roof for the finishing screenshot.	rubregg
Agent Orange:	...finish by 20:15, while the sky is still orange.	OrionSR
Silver Bullet:	Meet the standard for silver with the Bullet from the Badlands Endurance save.	OrionSR, rubregg
Paranoiac:	Meet the standard for bronze while not crossing any bridge on your route.

Notes on the rules:

Looping to get a good or second run at a jump, or getting back on course after crashing, spinning out or falling off does not count as an intersecting path. Approaching an intersection from the north and turning west, and then approaching the same intersection from the south and turning east (if you cut the corners) does not cross paths. The basic idea of the rule is to keep CJ moving down the river in the general direction of the destination and not jumping back and forth in the same spot.
The Yacht Harbor signs were chosen for the finishing screenshot because there's two of them and they're good landmarks near the beach house. Both signs can be seen during the slow-mo for the unique jump onto the pier, but this is not a requirement. If you'd like to pose CJ in an interesting position with the sign in the background, or are desperate to get the screenshot in before time runs out, any screenshot that includes either * Yacht Harbor * Sport Fishing * Boating * cafes sign will do.

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[KJ] Katie Jumps ****

Save File: <Katie Jumps - Alt Garage Camera>

This Rally takes place in restricted San Fierro, i.e. you'll have to deal with 4 wanted stars. The provided save file loads at Doherty and you'll be under instant cop fire. Use the NRG-500 stashed at Doherty garage to pick up Katie for a date. The date will automatically fail due to the high wanted level, but Katie will remain on the back of the bike for 6 minutes before she bails and runs off. The goal is to complete as many SF unique stunt jumps as possible and score the bonus with Katie as a passenger.

Optionally you can use any game which has San Fierro still locked off. Get into restricted San Fierro, pick up Katie for a date on an NRG-500 and jump away, but keep in mind that you need SF airport access if you want to tackle platinum.

Medals:

Platinum:	14 jumps	OrionSR 14 ( ), rubregg 14 ( ), Kusak 14 (video)
Gold:	11 jumps
Silver:	9 jumps	zmoonchild 10.5, cacarla 9
Bronze:	7 jumps

Current Record: OrionSR - 14 jumps in 5:42

Achievements: Meet any medal standard and...

Triple:	...score a number of triple insane stunts
High Noon:	...be at Katie's house in full armour before she's ready (before 12:00)	OrionSR 11:57, rubregg 11:57
Greenhorn:	...keep the green NRG intact throughout the race, i.e. don't respray	OrionSR, rubregg
China Jumper:	...do this extra jump in Chinatown	rubregg

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Some additional suggestions - currently under construction:

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[RW] Redsands Westking ****

<no save file yet>

Get to The Big Ear in the Desert, grab the Sandking there and drive it to the unique stunt jump in Redsands West (jump #66 on the map provided by dark52). The timer starts with you first touching the Sandking and stops as soon as you hit the ramp of the unique jump. Start and finishing screenshots have to be provided.

This Rally is supposed to be an introduction to driving in restricted territory and should be relatively easy-going. The Sandking is a very decent vehicle for 4star survival, and the route is not that long, so unexperienced 4-starers can give it a shot too. The unique jump slomo gives enough time for a decent finishing screenshot.

Medals:

???

Current Record: OrionSR - 1:27

Achievements:

???

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[VIG] SWAT / FBI Vigilante

Do the 'Vigilante' mission in the SWAT-Van or the FBI-Truck and get to the point where you hardly acquire any wanted stars anymore, time is no longer an issue and you could technically go on forever. No save file is required, do it at any point in the (chain) game. All you need is one of the required vehicles.

!!! weapon/ammo restrictions might be added !!!

Medals:

Gold:	complete level 40	rubregg, laezy
Silver:	complete level 28
Bronze:	complete level 16

Current Record: rubregg - level 180+ (game crashed in level 186-ish, run documented until level 180)

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Minigun Run **** [working title]

Another suggestion for an introductory 4-star rally. This one's only here to keep the idea. It hasn't got a save file yet and is, as of yet, NOT part of the Chain Game.

Starting from Mulholland (with NRG, Nitro-Bullet, BMX) collect Mini-Gun ammo and the Combat Shotgun from restricted Las Venturas, and then return to Los Santos to save/screenshot in front of any safehouse/garage after clearing the wanted level. Mulholland is selected because of the central access to either the LV bridges, NRG Jump, or the LS airport. Or, skip the Mullholland part (in the spirit of the challenge events) and people can select any location or vehicle. Instead of a time standard for medals, perhaps other achievements could substitute.

Medals: (current suggestion)

Gold:	Spaz, +600 Mini-Gun ammo, and garage a Special Vehicle
Silver:	Spaz and either +600 Mini-Gun ammo or garage a Special Vehicle
Bronze:	Spaz and +400 Mini-Gun ammo

Special Vehicles include:

Sandking, Dune, Sea Sparrow, Turismo, Bullet and Mt. Bike - or the same vehicle used to access Las Venturas.

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open issues

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[ok] achievements ok?? ...couple of new ones added...

[ok?] medal requirements ok?? --> ~~Katie Jumps too hard??~~

[ok] BE --> save loads at 7:04??? NO, loads at 00:00 / old file loaded at 7:02

[ok] BE --> correct times

[ok] SP --> make & upload a thumbnail to map / put link in

[ok] SP --> Agent Orange - time limit for achievement

[ok?] SP --> clean up 'Notes' section

[ok] BE, SP, KJ got new save files on Oct 30 2007; only difference: cam behaviour in garages

[ok] changed links to dark52 maps - deep links didn't work

[ ] RW --> save file?

[ ] RW --> possible to make a save that loads at Big Ear?

[ ] RW --> medals

[ ] RW --> achievements?

[ ] VIG -> limited weapons/ammo?

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and now - Happy Racing !!!

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Edited July 10, 2009 by rubregg

June 26, 2007

Here are a few of my thoughts for how to organize topics on rallies, racing, the Chain Game, and off-topic discussions. But I'm a little new here, so I'm counting on the local vet's advice on the culture of the board.

In the original chain game at GameFAQs.com, we we a little worried about the topic filling up before the game was finished, so we had an off-topic thread associated with chain-game where we could discuss strategies and chat. I like the fact that the current format doesn't need to be quite so strict about restricting posts, however, there was a close community that formed in the off-topic thread that lead to a much better understanding of the game. An off-topic discussion thread might be very useful, but we don't need to have one for each of thread. Perhaps a vet lounge for the Chain Game, Rally/WRX/Racing, and Mission Helpers would be useful - and we can keep it all in the Mission Help area.

If we migrate to the Gameplay area then much more consideration to frame rates and accommodations for PS2 and Xbox players would be appropriate. I suggest that we develop the Rally Races as a PC v2 (scriptchange compatable) challenge so we can take advantage of custom saves. If the idea is successful, then the favorite Rallies can be adapted for any system and migrated to the Gameplay area. Perhaps I should consult atwyatt on this idea. I think he's active on all three sites, was a participant in the WRX Rallies at GTPlanet.net, and might have some practical input.

Perhaps two or more types of Rally Events can be defined. A Rally Challenge would be something like Redsands Westking. It is short, depends on a random vehicle spawn so ending screenshots won't be enough, and it can be tried with any save before Ya Ka-Boom Boom - few specific requirements. For instance, I might try the Redsands Westking challenge while collecting oysters in the chain game. Also, sometimes I like to visit LV early to collect a Sandking with hydraulics to it's easy to drive over the rail of the Mako Span, but most of the time I get the normal Sandking and need to run off and return so it'll respawn. Redsands Westking is a little further than required, but as long as I'm driving up and down the mountain, I may as well take another shot at the challenge.

Katie Jumps, and Badlands Endurance, have a lot of specific requirements. Certain Jumps must be incomplete, specific girlfriends, skills, cops, ballas, and vehicles set up the event, and they take quite a while to complete. For these Rally or WRX Events, it would be much easier, and perhaps necessary, to reload the current save to start again.

But I also noticed that the Badlands Endurance save sets up the Redsands Westking challenge fairly well. Instead of heading off to Dillimore for the 3rd jump, I take the NRG Jump into LV using the nitrous in the Bullet for an extra boost (haven't tried it without NOS), and then head on up to the Sandking at Big Ear. So, it's possible that a single custom save can be used for many different challenges.

My idea for Rally Events and Challenges would be to establish a thread to develop a Rally Pack. A rally pack would include 8 custom saves with associated events and challenges. The rallies can be tested, the rules and challange times can be adjusted, and the descriptions and saves archived for download on a permanent filehost like FileFront.com. Since the only save I've got for Katie Jumps is a v1 save, it wouldn't be appropriate to include in the same rally pack as the v2 gamesaves. So we've got a single thread to organize several events, but there's a reasonable lifetime or limit to the topic. If several Rally Packs get developed, then a master thread to advertise the events can be created, and hopefully stickied, and it can manage the completed events and challenges or include appropriate links.

Then, if some of the Rallies are particularly successful, or generate interest for players on other systems, the greatest hits from the rally events and challenges can be adapted to a more general format, and someone else can figure out how to organize the requirements and post the topic in the Gameplay section.

June 27, 2007

Nothing like a wall of text for killing a new topic, huh?

June 27, 2007

Nothing like a wall of text for killing a new topic, huh?

Don't worry, I've read your comments with interest. I've also pmed JAJ and he is interested but very busy at the moment. And I've had my only day off work for this week yesterday

Next week will be a lot better, until then I'll have to be brief (i.e. go to bed , eerr, *now*). ...and actually I was hoping for a few more opinions too...

Edited June 27, 2007 by rubregg

July 4, 2007

No edit, but a shameless bump instead

So, OrionSR, it looks as if for now it's down to us to get this rally challenge thing organized. And I think you made some very good points.

In the original chain game at GameFAQs.com, we we a little worried about the topic filling up before the game was finished, so we had an off-topic thread associated with chain-game where we could discuss strategies and chat. (...) An off-topic discussion thread might be very useful, but we don't need to have one for each of thread. Perhaps a vet lounge for the Chain Game, Rally/WRX/Racing, and Mission Helpers would be useful - and we can keep it all in the Mission Help area.

My idea for Rally Events and Challenges would be to establish a thread to develop a Rally Pack. (...) So we've got a single thread to organize several events, but there's a reasonable lifetime or limit to the topic.

This all sounds reasonable and I also like the idea to organize several 'rally' or 'challenge' events in one pack. So what about, for now, we use this topic here for all of Chain Game's off-topic discussion and to develop the first of these packs? If eventually we get different packs together, they probably should be in separate topics, but for now let's see how it gets going first and wonder how to organize the bigger scale later?

This way we'll also stay in 'Mission Help', and your points about migrating to 'Gameplay' are surely valid:

If we migrate to the Gameplay area then much more consideration to frame rates and accommodations for PS2 and Xbox players would be appropriate. I suggest that we develop the Rally Races as a PC v2 (scriptchange compatable) challenge so we can take advantage of custom saves. (...)

Yes, I really get to like the idea of crafting specific saves for some of the races and we should definitely make them v2/scriptchange compatible, so everyone can participate.

But maybe having just one save file for all the races in the pack can't really be done appropriately? As you mentioned, a save file like the one you provided for Badlands Endurance could be used for Redsands Westking as well. But we should have one with none of the unique jumps cleared, and maybe we could stick an NRG in the garage too. In case someone prefers to do the jump into LV on the NRG. However, I wouldn't recommend this save for 'Katie Jumps'; for this challenge (which is great by the way!) I'd prefer a save at Sta. Maria Beach (to use your jump into SF at this bridge). ...which makes me instantly wonder about other rallies that could start from Sta. Maria Beach....

Perhaps two or more types of Rally Events can be defined. [linebreak added]

A Rally Challenge would be something like Redsands Westking. It is short, depends on a random vehicle spawn so ending screenshots won't be enough, and it can be tried with any save before Ya Ka-Boom Boom - few specific requirements. (...)

Katie Jumps, and Badlands Endurance, have a lot of specific requirements. Certain Jumps must be incomplete, specific girlfriends, skills, cops, ballas, and vehicles set up the event, and they take quite a while to complete. For these Rally or WRX Events, it would be much easier, and perhaps necessary, to reload the current save to start again.

I certainly agree. For the 'Redsands Westking type' we could suggest one of the save files in the pack (like above-mentioned), but point out that it could also be done in any other valid situation. The other ones you mentioned certainly need the reloading of a save game.

Other 'type' condiserations:

• races that start with the loading of the savegame, like Badlands Endurance; one finishing screenshot is all that's needed to time them, and a save (or stats) file could prove that all jumps have been found (or cleared, if needed). <--> vs. races like Redsands Westking that start *at some point* and where 2 screenshots are the only proof there ever can be.

• races that are just 'Races' - like Redsands Westking and Badlands Endurance (I like the fact that you only have to trigger the slomo camera and not actually clear the jumps - this could be added as an extra platinum medal) <--> vs. the 'Katie Jumps' type (here clearing the jumps should be required); we could call these 'Challenges', and similar ones where stuff has to be collected or whatnot. (I'm curious - what does WRX in 'WRX Events' stand for?)

But let's not hack up the simple word 'type' into too many tiny pieces, so since I'm already thinking of a posting format, what about something like this:

Event: [name]

Type: Race / Challenge / 4star Race / 4star Challenge [ordered from easy to hard, so this could be a good hint at the difficulty of the event]

Savegame: >link< (or any game before/after [mission name])

Description / Requirements:

[everything about the event and its requirements; if it's valid for the event, maybe put the notice that this can be done with any game before/after [whatever mission] in here as a first line instead?]

Frame Rate Limiter: off / on [extra line or put into 'Description'?]

Notes: [maybe, if needed]

Medals:

[requirements for medals, as you did in Badlands Endurance; maybe also extra awards, as you mentioned?]

For now, everyone who wants to suggest a rally/challenge could post something like the above in here, so they can edit in results and/or adjust things, and/or put in tips, etc...

In the end we could get a pack of 8 events together, and maybe we won't even need 8 different save files for it.

So, how does this sound for now?

July 4, 2007

@OrionSR
So here's a fun vigilante challenge for anyone interested. Load up the 100% save from the last chain game with the extra vehicle spawns and go grab a mini-gun and the SWAT Tank. See if you can run the level up to... level 30 to 50 or so. To the point where time, damage, armor, health, wanted level, and location don't matter any more, and you could keep the mission going indefinitely if you wanted to.

I'm trying this right now. I'm currently in level 71, pausing for a food break and wondering how far I should do it...
EditEdit: Ok, so as I was approaching level 200 and wondering how far I should play it before cancelling the mission (you're right, OrionSR, at some point it could go on forever). Then my game took matters in its own hands and crashed around level 186. ...leaving me without a savegame or stats file... At least I have tons of screenshots, some of which are here for your viewing pleasure. Although I started next to the Johnsohn House, the mission took me all across the complete map. A brief visit to the desert, quite some time in LV, SF, the Badlands and Whetstone, and even a trip to Angel Pine. Note that somewhere in the 140s the reward for each completed level gets to over 1 million

[info - done while testing the 2x draw distance mod, with frame rate limiter off]

So what did you think? Was it a worthy challange? I guess I should have said something to the affect of going on indefinitely if the game doesn't crash. I had that problem when I tried extended Brown Thunder missions. 200 or so was not much problem, but attempts at anything more usually ended with a crash (or a stupid mistake like letting the hunter unspawn by going inside to eat).

BTW, in case someone tells you otherwise, it is possible for CJ starve to death if he doesn't eventually stop to eat during an extended Taxi mission.

I liked the challenge, but eventually it got a bit boring, once I got the hang of it. If you do your minigun kills from really long-distance, you don't even collect too many wanted stars...

So I was thinking, maybe if we did *not* use a 100% save game, so there's no unlimited minigun ammu? Also, let's not use one of the modded savegames we used in the Chain Game, because there's an extra SWAT van spawn at the LS police garage there. This way we'd have only that one SWAT van which has to survive. We could give some initial minigun ammu, enough to get a decent 'time left' on the clock, but at some point you'd have to take detours to get new minigun (or other heavy weapon) ammu.

What do you think about that?

BTW, I know that you can starve to death. That's why in my 4star-starter-save I did the taxi missions first, to chew on the initial fat (I wanted to do them in one go).

July 4, 2007

I liked the challenge, but eventually it got a bit boring, once I got the hang of it. If you do your minigun kills from really long-distance, you don't even collect too many wanted stars...

So I was thinking, maybe if we did *not* use a 100% save game, so there's no unlimited minigun ammu? Also, let's not use one of the modded savegames we used in the Chain Game, because there's an extra SWAT van spawn at the LS police garage there. This way we'd have only that one SWAT van which has to survive. We could give some initial minigun ammu, enough to get a decent 'time left' on the clock, but at some point you'd have to take detours to get new minigun (or other heavy weapon) ammu.

What do you think about that?

BTW, I know that you can starve to death. That's why in my 4star-starter-save I did the taxi missions first, to chew on the initial fat (I wanted to do them in one go).

Yes, it does get a bit repetitive after a while, that's why I set the standard fairly low. After a couple dozen levels, it becomes pretty difficult to earn a wanted level for blowing up vehicles; the wanted level system changes during high vigilante levels, but I can't quite nail down the specifics.

I wasn't thinking about SWAT Vigilante as a Rally challenge, but I suppose it would certainly qualify. I was just making another one of those random comments, "Hey, every try doing this?" But yeah, limiting the ammo might be a good plan, then someone would need to work out a really good system to keep the mission going indefinitely.

Generally I stay away from trainers and game editors, but for this purpose, I've got nothing against using a garage editor to spawn the vehicles we need, or tweaking the amount of starting ammo for specific weapons. What would be more interesting would be a save anywhere mod, but I guess most of the time we'll need to save a vehicle, so we may as well use a safe house with a garage.

We should try to get input on the SWAT Vigilante Challenge from Raged. I sent him a link to an appropriate save so he could try it out.

Edit: I guess I was just confirming what everyone already knew about dying in the Taxi. It's just that a fairly credible source told me that CJ wouldn't actually die during the Taxi mission, but I never had the courage to try it out. So after my recent taxi run in the chain game, I decided to try it out. I ran up a slight buffer, and then tried waiting in zones where the peds don't spawn. Leaving town didn't help, eventually a ped spawned at the end of the pier, and I even tried parking on one of the passengers for a while (which also freezes the timer) but eventually got pushed off my a cop chasing some criminals. However, when I finally got a destination at the Stadium I managed to hide there and let CJ's health drain for a while, then picked up the mission again. Sure enought, his health bar eventually started blinking and a little while later he fell out of the cab dead in the road.

Edited July 4, 2007 by OrionSR

July 5, 2007

SWAT Vigilante

After a couple dozen levels, it becomes pretty difficult to earn a wanted level for blowing up vehicles; the wanted level system changes during high vigilante levels, but I can't quite nail down the specifics.

Ah, so that's the reason and not me switching from fairly-long-distance to really-long-distance killing...

I wasn't thinking about SWAT Vigilante as a Rally challenge, but I suppose it would certainly qualify. I was just making another one of those random comments, "Hey, every try doing this?" But yeah, limiting the ammo might be a good plan, then someone would need to work out a really good system to keep the mission going indefinitely.

That's exactly how I first felt about it. The idea that it could as well be one of the challenges in the pack grew while I was writing my recent postings in here....

Well, I think it would add to the variety of the pack, it's quite different to 'racing'. But we'd have to try out how some of the suggested restrictions work first. We can always keep it in mind and toy around with it. Let's see what other challenges we'll come up with and decide in the end which ones will go into the first pack.

We should try to get input on the SWAT Vigilante Challenge from Raged. I sent him a link to an appropriate save so he could try it out.

Cool, waiting to hear feedback

Save Game Crafting

Generally I stay away from trainers and game editors, but for this purpose, I've got nothing against using a garage editor to spawn the vehicles we need, or tweaking the amount of starting ammo for specific weapons. What would be more interesting would be a save anywhere mod, but I guess most of the time we'll need to save a vehicle, so we may as well use a safe house with a garage.

I was wondering about that as well. At first I thought, fine, I can dig through my own collection of saves, especially my starter saves. There'd be perfect material there, cheat-free, unique jumps untouched and all. Then I realized that they are *all* useless because they are all v1.

I guess crafting a save game from scratch (i.e. a new game) could be done eventually, but that's kind of tedious. Like you I usually stay away from trainers and the like, and in the rare instances where I tried some out (GTASA Control Center is the only one I know) I have run into some heavy glitchage. I think we should still try it out though, at least for some of the trickier bits. After all I guess we'll be testing them a lot....

For some saves with less specific requirements, there might be another way: To avoid the use of trainers that could cause glitches, there's always the safe way of quick stats increasing by manually editing some files (as described in glenster's guide, but I guess you know I'm talking about ar_stats.dat).

I've recently started a new game playing around with the minimal kill challenge. This will be a proper cheat-free v2 game, maybe I can use one of those savegames to craft a 'challenge-save'. I've also recently had an idea about giving our saves unique names, but I'll have to test a lot first...

Taxi starvation

Edit: I guess I was just confirming what everyone already knew about dying in the Taxi. It's just that a fairly credible source told me that CJ wouldn't actually die during the Taxi mission, but I never had the courage to try it out. So after my recent taxi run in the chain game, I decided to try it out. (...) Sure enought, his health bar eventually started blinking and a little while later he fell out of the cab dead in the road.

It's always good to hear confirmation

It happened to me once, a very long time ago, but I can't remember if it was 'Taxi' or 'Paramedic'. I can remember that I hadn't eaten before starting the mission, that I starved not long before 'mission complete', and that I was *quite* pissed off

This coming up here is a nice coincidence anyway. When I wrote my guide, at some point I had a paragraph about this in it - as a recommendetion to do 'Taxi' first in a 'leet-game'. I finally ditched it because I thought everyone who reads the guide and is into doing taxis-in-one-go would certainly know about this...

Anyway, have you spotted my other posting? I guess I put two walls of text in here yesterday...

July 5, 2007

Actually, no. I had missed your other message. It's very late, so forgive the disorganized response.

I alway think of Katie Jumps as starting in Mulholland and making the jump into the SF airport to start things off, but I guess it doesn't matter all that much. I was thinking of a couple of rallies that could start with a Flint Intersection jump. One of the 4 star challenges I presented a while back involved taking the Monster from the Flint Intersection trailer park and using off-road only routes to Angel Pine, then taking the Roadtrain behind the safehouse, hooking up a trailer (difficult random spawn) and making the trip to the export ship. I wondering if the crane can lift both pieces for a screenshot. I suppose I should flesh out the ideas a little better first.

But it seems that we need some raw v2 material to work with. I suspect a little tweaking can get all the skills required fairly quickly. I know I can get any amount of money from buying a single tattoo, but that involves a trip to LV or SF. Missions don't take that long to complete. What needs to be done or not done? Also, I'm not as worried about potential glitches on stagnant gamesaves. The save pack files aren't really meant for normal game progression, so future potential glitches are less problematic.

Done

3 Girlfriends before Green Sabre

Better get Oysters to help with the GFs

Safehouses purchased

Burglary, Vigilante, Paramedic, Firefighter

Bloodbowl for Banger, Kickstart for Dune, 8-Track for Monster and Racer

NRG Challenge so grabbing the bike doesn't increment the mission attempts

Hitman Stats

Cycle, Bike, Driving Skill

Eventually - Missions to unlock the maps

Clothing purchased

Weapons and ammo

Not Done

No Jumps found or completed

All Tags, Snapshots, and Horseshoes on the map

Save Taxi and Pimping for 4 Star Challenges?

Courier Assets incomplete, even though they can be repeated

Inport/Export (30 Vehicles starting with empty garages?)

Here's a weird idea. How about staring a street race, but doing a challenge instead of the race?

July 6, 2007

Actually, no. I had missed your other message. It's very late, so forgive the disorganized response.

Haha, don't worry

I alway think of Katie Jumps as starting in Mulholland and making the jump into the SF airport to start things off, but I guess it doesn't matter all that much. I was thinking of a couple of rallies that could start with a Flint Intersection jump.

Wow. I think 'Katie Jumps' is hard enough as it is (roadblocks, mate, roadblocks... lol), and I think the Flint Intersection jump is way easier than the unique jump into SF airport. But well, in the end it doesn't matter that much. In this type of challenge, players could very well load the provided save, go to their preferred starting save house and save there. They'd have to be careful about the time of day, but it wouldn't alter the challenge itself. BTW, you probably know this, but Michelle can jump as well. Have you ever tried/timed it? All the same as Katie?

One of the 4 star challenges I presented a while back involved taking the Monster from the Flint Intersection trailer park and using off-road only routes to Angel Pine, then taking the Roadtrain behind the safehouse, hooking up a trailer (difficult random spawn) and making the trip to the export ship. I wondering if the crane can lift both pieces for a screenshot. I suppose I should flesh out the ideas a little better first.

....could be fun.... hmm, what actually happens when CJ is followed by cops and enters the crane? I've never tried that, does he get busted? I think the crane might not be a cop-free area. I'm not sure, but I think I saw some Enforcers spawn around there a while ago?

Save Game Crafting

I agree, we need a fairly raw v2 save to start with. I don't know about that money-by-tatooing glitch, how does that work?? Anyway, I don't think money is that big of a matter. For a raw save, there's still a few side-missions plus Inside Track (if we need that at all). Not too much money is needed to set up the challenges anyway. Least we need is enough to buy that one save house where the race is supposed to start, worst case Mulholland. Well, at least that would be the case for races that start from LS save houses. For races that need unlocking (parts of) the map, we can play the storyline but still only purchase the one race-relevant save house.

For Katie Jumps we don't actually need any storyline missions and I think we certainly should not have 3 girl-friends, unless we have all oysters. Jealous Barbara has ended my Katie Jumping a few times already... lol... I think we might not even need any oysters at all. If, for 'Katie Jumps' we have her as only girlfriend, we should be alright. According to Glenster's guide, she likes 'a high muscle stat', and we'll probably have that one maxed out anyway?!

All your other suggestions sounded reasonable. What about, starting from that 'raw save', we only do the side-missions needed to get certain vehicles for the challenge in question? I'm not talking about the NRG challenge, this as you said should be done, but more about stadium events. If we do / provide as little as possible, it would keep the stats fairly clean, but that's only an idea I've played around with, not that important after all...

Also, I'm not as worried about potential glitches on stagnant gamesaves. The save pack files aren't really meant for normal game progression, so future potential glitches are less problematic.

Agreed. I wasn't worried about future potential glitches though, more about crashes during the race. But as I said, we'll certainly test those....

I think in the end, the only thing that might really need some trainer/tool is ammu (for stuff like swat vigilante and the 4star events) or some very special / modded vehicle. The rest could probably be done fairly easily.

Save Taxi and Pimping for 4 Star Challenges?
Courier Assets incomplete, even though they can be repeated

I don't see how either of these could be *required* for any of our events, so we shouldn't do them. At least I seriously hope none of your race suggestions will include a compulsory taxi-with-nitrous

Inport/Export (30 Vehicles starting with empty garages?)

I seriously hate the Exports mission and again I hope this won't end up as a challenge....

Here's a weird idea. How about staring a street race, but doing a challenge instead of the race?

Hell yes. A timer and endless possibilities... Good idea, should be pondered upon

Yesterday I did a first test in save game renaming and it seemed to work. I'll keep at this...

July 10, 2007

Savegame Testing

So I finally did some handcrafted savegames, these here are v2 saves for Badlands Endurance:

version a (race starts at 10:00)

version b (race starts at 00:00)

I kept the edits minimal. From the raw starters I pmed you about, OrionSR, I only played the storyline until Green Sabre, bought the Badlands save houses, picked up a Bullet, modded it and put it into Palomino Creek garage. Then I used a savegame editor to edit the game time to 10:00, tweaked the cash from 93x.xxx to 999.999 and removed all 'Insane Stunt' stats (it's now a completely jump-free game). Finally I manually edited the name of the savegame so that it shows "Badlands Endurance" in the in-game loading menu. This is version a.

I made version b only to test the weapon ability of that save game editor. And to try out if the race or the jump screenshots are more scenic at night. It's basically the same file as version 1, only with CJ fully armed and the time of day being 00:00.

I used 00:00 and 10:00 as starting times, because this way the race times can be easily read from the clock times.

I'd be happy if you or anybody could test these files and see if they work or glitch. And tell me what you think, OrionSR. Of course starting at 10:00 and still giving CJ weapons or whatever shouldn't be too hard from here. Should we use something like this?

Specific wishes for a 'Katie Jumps' starter?

July 11, 2007

Sorry, I've been busy on another project and missed all the hard work. It's too late to try out your saves tonight, but I'll give them a shot tomorrow and let you know what I think. I like your starting time idea, that should work out great, and the save game name should be a nice feature. There are some advantages to racing at night. There tends to be fewer peds and vehicles to get in the way. I tend to work in the daylight a lot, and time my save so it's just getting light when I start my task, but this is a habit I developed while making videos. My night videos always turn out too dark. Besides, limiting my videos to daylight hours often forces me to finish things faster. The other way to think about the game clock is what the time should be at the end of the race - reach the goal before midnight, or noon.

BTW, I'm not sure if this is worth turning into a Rally challenge, but have you ever tried taking the Land Sea and Air Vortex for a little spin in restricted territory? There are no vehicles or peds anywhere, except the roadblocks and timed vehicle spawns. It's an interesting way to check out their locations. The Vortex doesn't survive long, but all you need to do is exit before it explodes to restart the lesson. How about, start the Land Air Sea lesson in restricted LV, and clear the stars with bribes in SF? The Vortex counts as an aircraft so I don't think the stars will clear on their own.

Katie Jumps? Any chance you can get the random jealousy dates saved again? Maybe not; seems that caused a lot of problems. The Beach House would probably be a more reliable start than the Airport Jump. You can take the idea in any direction you want. I haven't tried it in a very long time, so it'll be new again anyway.

BTW, that jump from Panopticon to Fallen Tree demonstrated in the Panopticon Playground video is a bit tricky. But you don't need as much speed as you think to clear the channel. Don't accelerate until the bike can take full throttle without losing traction or pitching to the side - about half way down the hill. Check out the path for bumps and slopes, and choose a smooth line. Then get the best speed possible within those limits. It doesn't take much, and can be cleared with a Wayfarer.

Edited July 11, 2007 by OrionSR

July 11, 2007

Don't worry if you couldn't test yesterday's files, I found a bug - CJ has infinite armour. Turns out that the armour setting is a known bug in the savegame editor.

But I hope I managed to fix that. Here's the new ones:

File 1 -- File 2

Both are basically the same, only at a different time of day (again 10:00 and 00:00). Both now have CJ fully armed and a modded Bullet and an NRG in the garage. The NRG is mainly for doing Redsands Westking, so that there's a choice of vehicles which can clear the jump into LV. One file is named 'Redsands Westking' and the other one 'Badlands Endurance' and both seem to work for me. Even the gtasnp site shows the altered names The only thing is, when you load it, play and save again, it won't keep the name but go back to its original name "The Green Sabre". But well...

About the NRG there - for Badlands Endurance it's not needed, so if we use one save file per race we could just as well get rid of it in the Badlands Endurance save.

Now you'll have to choose if you want 'Badlands Endurance' take place at night or day. You're right about less traffic and peds at night, but when I tried the files I can't really say that I crashed less at night... The night variant may give cooler jump screenshots, especially if the car's lights are kept intact. But I don't really have that strong an opinion here so I'll gladly go along with whichever version you prefer. Being your race and all...

The other way to think about the game clock is what the time should be at the end of the race - reach the goal before midnight, or noon.

That's also an interesting idea. Hmm, for Badlands Endurance we already have some times, so it should be possible. For new races it's a bit harder, they need to be tested thoroughly first because if the medal ranges get altered, the save game would have to be altered as well. Which unfortunately is a bit more work than just one click or something. But let's see, your old Badlands Endurance savegame had a starting time of 07:02, and your record was 11:05, right? That's 4:03. What about 5:00 bronze / 4:40 silver / 4:20 gold / 4:00 platinum? Start the race at 20:00 and get platinum if you're there before midnight (this would equal 11:02 in your old savegame). Or, maybe better, start at 19:40 and get gold before midnight. 'The big goal' should be reachable...

[for daytime racing all the same, shifted by 12 hours]

About your Vortex suggestion - I haven't tried that yet, but I will, sounds fun. About 'Katie Jumps' - do you really want the jealousy thing in it?? To be quite honest, it actually pissed me off a bit, especially when I got caught. Happened a couple of times when I was just breaking for a u-turn to do a jump & I didn't have a chance to get away... I would actually suggest CJ having Katie as the only girlfriend for that race... Anyway, hope I get a chance to work on this tomorrow.

For now - happy testing

Edited July 11, 2007 by rubregg

July 14, 2007

Here's a raw idea:

Mini-Gun Run Rally Challenge

Starting from Mulholland (with NRG, Nitro-Bullet, BMX, and Mt. Bike) collect Mini-Gun Ammo and the Combat Shotgun from restricted Las Venturas, and then return to Los Santos to save/screenshot in front of any safehouse/garage after clearing the wanted level. Mulholland is selected because of the central access to either the LV bridges, NRG Jump, or the LS airport. Or, skip the Mullholland part (in the spirit of the challenge events) and people can select any location or vehicle. Instead of a time standard for medals, perhaps other achievements could substitute.

Bronze=Spaz and +400 Mini-Gun ammo

Silver=Spaz and either +600 Mini-Gun ammo or garage a special vehicle

Gold=Spaz, +600 Mini-Gun ammo, and garage a special vehicle

Speical Vehicles include: Sandking, Dune, FCR-900, Sea Sparrow, Turismo, Bullet, and Mt. Bike, or the same vehicle used to access Las Venturas.

July 15, 2007

Skipping Palomino

<Skipping Palomino (no mission markers)>

Game time is based on the save titled Redsands Westking (loads at 10:00).

Use an NRG-500 to race from Palomino Creek to Santa Maria Beach by 14:30 (4 minutes and 30 seconds).

Use a route that does not intersect with itself; the route shouldn't cross over the same spot.

Jump the creek (over water) as many times as possible during the trip.

The same section of creek/river/channel (subdivided by bridges) cannot be jumped twice in the same direction.

Jumps in a different direction but located in the same spot will intersect and can only be used once.

Final screenshot shall include a Yacht Harbor sign on the pier.

Bronze = Jump the Creek 9 Times

Silver = Jump the Creek 10 Times

Gold = Jump the Creek 11 Times

Achievements; when the standard for gold had been met and:

Triple: Score a triple insane stunt

Double-Triple: Score 2 triple insane stunts

Triple-Triple: Score 3 triple insane stunts (OrionSR)

Quadruple-Triple: Score 4 triple insane stunts

Survivor: The NRG makes the splash sound during the event

Notes on the rules:

Looping to get a good or second run at the jump, or turning around the wrong direction, doesn't count as an intersecting path. Approaching an intersection from the north and turning west, and then approaching the same intersection from the south and turning east (if you cut the corners) does not cross paths; crossing the same bridge twice does. There is one spot where I either had to make a long loop down the road and back in order to get enough speed for a jump, or go around and throw in an extra Unique Jump along the way. So my original idea of not crossing paths needed a little adjustment. The basic idea of the rule is to keep CJ moving down the river in the general direction of the destination and not jumping back and forth in the same spot.

The Yacht Harbor signs were chosen for the screenshot because they're a good landmark near the beach house, so I wouldn't need to recheck the time right away. Both signs can be seen during the slow-mo for the unique jump onto the pier, but this is not a requirement. If you'd like to pose CJ in an interesting position with the sign in the background, or are desperate to get the screenshot in before time runs out, any screenshot that includes either * Yacht Harbor * Sport Fishing * Boating * cafes sign will do.

I can think of one more jump before getting onto the Back'O'Beyond, but I don't think I can manage it without crossing my paths, and I seriously doubt I can fit it in within the current time limit. I managed to complete all 11 jumps and make a screenshot in front of the beach house garage at 04:09 with Frame Limiter Off, and 14:26 with it on (I was switching between saves). A little time was wasted trying to get the door open on a full garage, perhaps that could be a modification to the gamesave. I like having a good choice of vehicles in the other garages - good touch, but perhaps one empty slot would be better for our purposes. Actually, screenshots of a garage are boring, I'm going to change that now. I suppose I need a new screenshot, but now the save doesn't need to be changed.

Edited August 9, 2007 by OrionSR

July 15, 2007

When I got a chance to play with the crafted saves today, I got distracted by the bike and didn't spend much time with the Bullet. I started thinking about how the event might be different if I had planned it with an NRG in mind, and came up with this idea for a new event. However, I did run a fairly clean NRG run of Badland Endurance using the crafted saves and managed a pair of scores of 3:38. I pretty much used the same route for my fastest Bullet score, with a slight modification for a jump I can manage with a bike but not the Bullet.

Edit: Another thought on the crafted saves. One of the achievements I am considering involves money collected from stunt bonuses during the trip. Having a bunch of 9s isn't much different than a string of 0s, but somehow it seems to make more sense to start at 0 - like you did with the game time. I don't think this needs to be changed on the current saves, but it is something to consider for future saves. Zeroing out the jump stats is another nice feature. Thanks for thinking ahead.

BTW, why an Alpha? And what do you think about racing a Super GT through restricted SF in order to get a screenshot of one of those 2 jumps next to Katie's house? Oh, yeah - I should try it first, but the thought struck me as interesting when I saw it in the garage.

July 19, 2007

When I got a chance to play with the crafted saves today, I got distracted by the bike and didn't spend much time with the Bullet.

Haha, the same thing happened to me too. I didn't time my efforts though...

Edit: Another thought on the crafted saves. One of the achievements I am considering involves money collected from stunt bonuses during the trip. Having a bunch of 9s isn't much different than a string of 0s, but somehow it seems to make more sense to start at 0 - like you did with the game time. I don't think this needs to be changed on the current saves, but it is something to consider for future saves. Zeroing out the jump stats is another nice feature. Thanks for thinking ahead.

Basically I only toyed around with the save game editor and looked if adjusting the money would work. With your context in mind it's a very good idea to set the cash to 0, and I'll gladly do that for the final version of the save game.

Now that the naming thing seems to work and all, I'm actually thinking of doing one crafted save per challenge, each one with its name. This way we could have each challenge exactly the way we want it. No extra vehicles in the garages and all. What do you think?

BTW, why an Alpha? And what do you think about racing a Super GT through restricted SF in order to get a screenshot of one of those 2 jumps next to Katie's house? Oh, yeah - I should try it first, but the thought struck me as interesting when I saw it in the garage.

Naah, the garage content at the moment is not really thought through or anything. Like I said, I started a new v2 game and while doing paramedic and all I just collected the odd racing car when I happened to see one around. The cars in the garages are just some regularly and cheat-freely collected racing cars you sometimes find spawning in LS. They're not modded yet or anything. ....yeah, the Super GT - don't we all *love* that one from City Slicking...

Got to rush into work now, have to get back to your other comments later.

...oh, and I was working on a Katie Jumps save yesterday. Am getting somewhere. Let me know as many details as possible about features you'd like in it. Clock = 18:00? Six minutes time to get to Katie's house? Vehicles at Sta. Maria Beach = NRG + Sandking or only NRG? Anything in Doherty garage? NRG perhaps? Other LS garages (not that they mattered for the challenge)? Money = 0? CJ armed/unarmed?

Edited July 19, 2007 by rubregg

July 19, 2007

Yes, I'd like a Sandking in the beach house garage. Maybe not for the final save, but at least while I'm working on new events. When I'm messing around and trying stuff out, it helps to have vehicles near by. For instance, I used the NRG at Dillimore to work on the end of Skipping Palomino. I kept loosing the bike on jumps I couldn't make, and didn't want to start all over in Palomino. One thing you could do is keep vehicles you like in the garages, then I'm more likely to include them in an event.

One save per event is a great idea. That way we have a better chance of finishing the first Rally Pack.

I'm not too worried about the Katie Jumps save. Anything you'd like to do with it is fine by me. I like your idea of setting the start time so that if CJ doesn't get there fast enough then she won't answer the door. No rain please.

Money doesn't have to be all zeros; lots of trailing zeros will do just as well. However, for the Palomino event I've decided not to worry about money. The top cash prize will go to whoever puts on the best triple insane stunts during the event, so I may as well specify that for the achievements.

Here's another thought on the Badlands saves. Originally the modded Bullet was put there for use during the Wu Zi Mu race (Badlands A). I'd kind of like to have that race available. Also, when we get into the desert, I'd like to have the Monster Race available on the side.

July 20, 2007

I do like the idea with the money being all zeros or trailing zeros. Why not all zeros? They are meant to be static saves anyway and for most challenges money won't be required.

Badlands Endurance:

Have you made up your mind about Badlands Endurance yet, do you want the race by day or by night and do you want the 'countdown timer' (times as I suggested) or not? Another idea I had for this one is: making the save file from a 100% save from one of the chain games to get rid of shooting gangs along the way (if we did this, we couldn't have the Wu-Zi-Mu race available though - which I think is a great idea too, if slightly off-challenge). Also: I think in the final Badlands Endurance save I will only put the Bullet into the garage. It's pissing me off when sometimes CJ enters the wrong vehicle by mistake...

Katie Jumps:

I should be able to get something together over the weekend. Talking of a Sta.Maria Beach course testing starter (with Sandking), what actually unlocks the monster truck at the trailer park across the bridge? I tried the 8-Track race but that's not it. Edit: Glenster's Guide says you need to date Michelle to 50% to make the Monster Truck spawn at Flint Intersection.

Minigun Challenge:

That sounds good. It's one of those that don't actually require a specific starter file (like Redsands Westking) and could theoretically be done anytime. Which makes it relatively easy to include this in the chain game. I actually only have two minor suggestions: No Mt.Bike in starting garage because it's one of the 'special vehicles' to be collected. And no FCR-900 among those special vehicles, because it can be found around LS, unlike the others in your list.

Skipping Palomino:

Sounds fun, I'll try it out as soon as I get the chance. ...uh-oh, triple insane stunts... Well, so far I haven't really practiced insane stunts yet and I'm pretty sure I don't usually get triple insane ones. Talking about insane stunts (I don't know too much about them), what about the 'height' information? Is that a well-known glitch or just something that's messed up in my game, but sometimes it just says 'height: 0' in spite of a massive drop. Anyway, what do you have to do to get a Triple Insane jump?

The frame rate limiter:

After our discussion a while back, I recently played a lot with FRL off. Just FYI, he 2 main differences I noticed: it's easier to thread the traffic, esp. with a fast vehicle; and swimming feels *completely* different. Especially when diving, it feels like there's a handbrake on or something. Try diving with FRL on and off and you'll notice a huge difference.

Edited July 20, 2007 by rubregg

July 20, 2007

That's right, day, night or countdown on Badlands Endurance. Um... I'm going with night at the moment. But I've already learned the course, and I find exploring easier in the day. What was the countdown time again? I consider the gangs to be part of the challenge. The plan was to force people to look for routes without too many gangsters, but they ended up being a minor concern, with the exception of the section between Unity and the Ped Overpass jump, and only then when the vehicle has taken more damage than it should. But on the other hand, why make things more difficult than necessary. The Wu Zi Mu race was just a thought. It's a chance to set race records with a modded vehicle is all. No big deal.

The Flint Monster doesn't need to be unlocked. It's just a stubborn spawn. The approach to the trailer park keeps the vehicle in view so the truck doesn't get much of a chance to spawn, but the usual spawn tricks should do the trick: leave and come back, approach from a different direction, turn your back on it, etc. I've tried collecting in on a beginning save, and can't pull it off. It's too slow to make the jump, and I haven't broken down and tried boating it across. It's been suggested that it might be collected using the drive underwater glitch, but I haven't done much glitching in San Andreas.

Okay then, a BMX in the garage. Mega-hopping is one of the easier ways to access LV, so I wanted a bicycle of some sort. The reason I included an FCR as a special vehicle is because I wanted to include riding over the rail as the achievement, and the FCR was the only appropriate choice. Also, since there isn't a fixed spawn, it might force people to try the Emerald Isle vehicle spawning trick. Also, Mt Bikes aren't all that difficult to find in the Badlands, I tend to see them a little north of Mulholland.

Yeah, height is definitely messed up, but not in the way you mentioned. It measures the height above the takeoff spot, so large drops don't count. The problem with height is that it doesn't seem to be a factor in determining Insane Jumps. I forget the complete formula, but if the distance, rotation, or flip meets the minimum requirement, then an insane jump is scored. When more than one criteria is met, then you can get the doubles and triples.

Getting a triple insane stunt on a bike is pretty easy. All you need is some pretty good air. Pull back until the bike is a little more than vertical, then push it forward, pull it back past 90 again, and then try to get it flat enough to land. This should score 2 flips and a rotation in the 720 range. So the trick to the Triple achievements is to find enough jumps that can catch enough air, and then landing them fairly cleanly or it'll cut into the time limit to finish the race.

Handbrake while swimming huh? I have difficulty sprinting while swimming under water, but I alway thought it had something to do with a slow repeat rate on my gamepad. No matter how quickly I press the button, I just can't seem to manage a good sprint. I programmed a turbo button for when it's necessary, but it doesn't come up often.

No money at all? That might make snacking and Pay'n'Sprays a little difficult. Still, it might present some interesting challenges. Like get a tattoo for the LV or SF parlors that are open early, and you need to collect enough money through stunts, jumps, and wheelies along the way.

Edit: BTW, for the Skipping Palomino Rally, I was thinking of an end time at the beach that was rich with yellow, orange, and red from the evening sunset, but the times that I checked didn't have very good weather. It seemed kind of smoggy and never developed the way I had hoped. I'm not sure if a different day might look better, or if that's just the way it looks.

Edited July 20, 2007 by OrionSR

July 20, 2007

That's right, day, night or countdown on Badlands Endurance. Um... I'm going with night at the moment. But I've already learned the course, and I find exploring easier in the day. What was the countdown time again?

My suggestion was:

let's see, your old Badlands Endurance savegame had a starting time of 07:02, and your record was 11:05, right? That's 4:03. What about 5:00 bronze / 4:40 silver / 4:20 gold / 4:00 platinum? Start the race at 20:00 and get platinum if you're there before midnight (this would equal 11:02 in your old savegame). Or, maybe better, start at 19:40 and get gold before midnight. 'The big goal' should be reachable... [for daytime racing all the same, shifted by 12 hours]

I'm ok with a nighttime race; starting at 19:40 should make it half day / half night anyway...

The Wu Zi Mu race was just a thought.

...as was the 'no gangs' idea.

...anyway, I'm currently doing the Wu Zi Mu thing and I was also going to try out the 'no gangs' version - mainly to try out the different editors at hand and if they could cause glitches.

The Flint Monster doesn't need to be unlocked.

Don't know if you've seen my

Edit: Glenster's Guide says you need to date Michelle to 50% to make the Monster Truck spawn at Flint Intersection.

- we've posted roughly at the same time... I was only thinking of that Monster truck because of this other race idea you mentioned a while back.

Handbrake while swimming huh?

Definitely. Try swimming / diving / sprint-swimming/-diving with frame rate limiter off (and no programmed buttons), and you'll notice a *huge* difference.

No money at all? That might make snacking and Pay'n'Sprays a little difficult.

Just an idea. ....didn't think snacking or spraying would be part of the races - the non-4star ones at least....

BTW, for the Skipping Palomino Rally, I was thinking of an end time at the beach that was rich with yellow, orange, and red from the evening sunset, but the times that I checked didn't have very good weather. It seemed kind of smoggy and never developed the way I had hoped. I'm not sure if a different day might look better, or if that's just the way it looks.

Should be possible, but may be a lot of try-and-erroring....

July 21, 2007

Just to make sure I'm not confused, I loaded a new game, this time with v2 scripts, and jumped across to the Flint trailer park to find the monster - I didn't even need to play any spawn games. It would seems that Glenster needs to update his FAQ again.

I tried swimming with the Frame Limiter On when I collected a few oysters for the chain game. There is quite a difference. CJ almost seemed like a dolphin by comparison.

Money isn't needed for the races, but comes in handy when exploring and working things out. I did quite a lot of painting while working on different sections of the course. It's not needed now, and I could always use a safe house garage instead. Maybe if we dated Michelle then the Pay'n'Sprays will be free. Snack money is pretty easy to collect with wheelies, stoppies, and minor jumps. I could always edit my shopping.dat if I needed a little cash. I kind of like the no money idea, but perhaps not for every save in the pack.

A midnight goal for Badlands Endurance sound good. Let me know when you get the save ready, I'd like to try it out.

July 21, 2007

Just to make sure I'm not confused, I loaded a new game, this time with v2 scripts, and jumped across to the Flint trailer park to find the monster - I didn't even need to play any spawn games. It would seems that Glenster needs to update his FAQ again.

Fair enough

To be honest, I didn't check the updated version of Glenster's guide, only an older one which I've still got on my hdd...

Anyway - here's a midnight goal Badlands Endurance, with 1 million cash and the Wu Zi Mu race available. No NRG at Palomino though, just the Bullet.

Sleepies now, hopefully more tomorrow...

July 21, 2007

Cool. So far I'm liking the setting for the beginning of the race, maybe tomorrow I can actually finish it. My eyes are shot for the night. Hey, now that the NRG is out of the way, can you get rid of that stupid wardrobe? Never mind, I suppose I'd better consider that before creating the event.

You should update you copy of Glenster's guide occasionally. He's alway making corrections and additions. Last update was 7/17/07. The way I read his description, that particular Monster will appear at Flint Intersection. He reports that the same Monster will also be unlocked at Michelle's after dating 50%, but this isn't correct. She has the same version as the one at the 8-Track Stadium. The Flint Monster is the same as used in the Monster race mission, and available for purchase at the Import Dock. He's got it straight in another section though.

So anyway, it might be there anytime you want to use it. Let me know if you find a way to make a 4 star collection. I'm reluctant to use the stubborn spawn in a timed challenge. The Toreno Monster from the modded chain game save isn't too difficult to collect, but it can be a struggle to keep the black color intact (oh yeah, vehicle spawner - I keep forgetting).

I don't have the best impression of the Monster as a 4 star vehicle. It can handle obstacles the cops can't, but they usually catch up eventually, get caught up under the wheels when they try to pit, and end up flying into the air, often taking the Monster with them.

July 21, 2007

(...)can you get rid of that stupid wardrobe? Never mind, I suppose I'd better consider that before creating the event.

LMAO - sorry, yeah I know, stupid habit of mine, making CJ look silly. ...in the end I don't care about outfits too much at all (but hey, it's not so far away from CJ's clothes in your original Badlands Endurance save) --> so, why not try out the save game editor's "all clothes" function? Here, take this save file, pick an outfit of your liking and send it back to me. Also, make the final call about cash in Badlands Endurance - 1 million or zero? This would be for the final save, not for practice saves... While we're at it - do you want the same outfit for all your challenges?

My suggestion for the money:

Badlands Endurance - zero (keeping your car intact is one of the main goals; additionally the first jump should be very easy to clear, and that alone gives you cash for 5 resprays)

Katie Jumps - 1 million (players might want to spray before the first unique jump; sometimes I spray just before I pick up Katie)

Also, I'd really like to try out a 'no gangs' version of Badlands Endurance. Last night - again - I got shot to pieces on a promising run. aaarghhh

You should update you copy of Glenster's guide occasionally. He's alway making corrections and additions. Last update was 7/17/07. The way I read his description, that particular Monster will appear at Flint Intersection.

Uh-oh, I wasn't aware of regular updates to Glenster's Guide. Could you give me a link please? The one I'm having (at gamefaqs) only has an outdated version.

And no, I'm not particularly planning on using a Monster at the moment. I was only following up on something you mentioned a while ago - wasn't there something about using the Flint Monster to go off-road to Angle Pine and pick up a truck there...??

Anyway, hope I find some time to actually think about new challenges. First trying to get those other savegames together though...

July 21, 2007

LMAO - sorry, yeah I know, stupid habit of mine, making CJ look silly.

Oh, sorry. I noticed the silly clothing, but wasn't all that concerned about it. What I meant was that I occasionally have problems entering the wardrobe while running down the hall - similar to your enter the wrong vehicle problem. And I realize there is nothing you can do about it. I will look for starting points without this obstacle.

Glenster's Guide at GameFAQs The file date at the top of the guide hasn't been updated.

Alright then. Zero cash for Badland Endurance, and a new save without Ballas whenever you get the chance. I haven't done Katie Jumps in a very long time, I'll trust your judgment on the matter.

I'm leaning toward eliminating anything (Ballas) we can that will add frustration for anyone we can eventually talk into trying the events. On a similar note, we might consider attractive outfits just so we don't put people off. We should try to choose vehicles people will enjoy driving - so I guess I should put off that Super GT idea for a while.

Yes, I was considering a challenge of racing a Monster from Flint to Angle Pine, and then a Roadtrain and trailer onto the export dock. It was a fun event, but requires two stubborn spawns - the Monster, and the Trailer for the Roadtrain. The Roadtrain at least spawns when it's supposed to. So this would make setting standards for a timed event rather difficult. I'm not sure how to handle it, so the idea is on the back burner.

Perhaps we should plan out the Rally Pack a little better so we know where we are headed. I'd like to highlight less traveled areas of the map, and/or, efficient routes between common destinations.

Rally Pack v1 (rough draft)

1. Badlands Endurance - Badlands and Los Santos, Bullet, route planning, unrestricted

2. Skipping Palomino - Badlands, NRG-500, stunt jumps, unrestricted

3. Katie Jumps - San Fierro, NRG-500, stunt jumps, 4 Star

4. Mini-Gun Rally - Las Venturas, NRG/Bullet/BMX, weapon collection, 4 Star

5. Santa Maria to a landmark in San Fierro - FCR or Sandking, route planning, unrestricted

6. Desert Crossing - Sandking/NRG/Bandito/Dune - stunt money/bribes/cause damage, unrestricted or military stars

7. San Fierro Shortcuts -Body Mod Flash, damage control, unrestricted

8. Tour De Los Venturas - Mt. Bike, bunny-hop shortcuts, unrestricted

8. Los Santos Technical Course - NRG/PCJ/FCR, shortcuts/jumps/alternate routes, unrestricted

8. Redsands Westking - ??? to Sandking, 4 star (are you planning a save for this one?)

There! That pretty much sums up my current ideas for rallies. It seems rather balanced at the moment. I suppose we are reusing the same vehicles an awful lot. Perhaps we should look into more variety. What's another really good off-road vehicle. I think I'm the only one who likes the Bandito.

Some other random thoughts:

Wouldn't it be cool if the street races or triathlons could be modded with different vehicles or checkpoints.

Chilliad - drifting the vehicles from the modded chain game instead of the Mt. Bike.

Turn my LS Ammo Run video into a Rally Challenge.

Edited July 21, 2007 by OrionSR

July 22, 2007

I played around a little more with the Badland Endurance saves today and have a few additional thoughts.

I like the midnight start better - mainly because there are fewer peds and less traffic, but also for better moon shots (snipe a large moon setting).

We should consider changing the end goal to the broken bridge jump (slo-mo camera in either direction); the garage ending sucks.

I tried changing the beginning of the race to the Johnson garage. The idea being that the routes could be used to pad driving skill early in the game. I crafted a save just after the mod shops opened, but the Ballas are almost as annoying. Perhaps if I shot a few Aztecas the Ballas would settle down and not shoot on sight. I couldn't figure out an appropriate ending. I didn't like the other jumps that were in the neighborhood, and I didn't see the point of going for the ped overpass again. Anyway, I'm abandoning this idea in favor of a 100% save unless we can get a truce with the Ballas.

Except, instead of figuring out how to get a Bullet into LS, I used an Infernus (and rejected Hotring and Cheetah). I was a little surprised, but I really liked this vehicle. I don't think it's entirely fair to abandon the Bullet after investing so much time practicing with the vehicle, but perhaps a choice between the two would be appropriate (but brings back the entering wrong vehicle issue). I suspect you'll be a little reluctant to change, but I encourage you to try it a few times. I was really impressed by how well it handled the course. Also, the Infernus can make that ped overpass jump without a nitrous boost. It still needs help if you want to score the bonus for the Unity jump. The other advantages to racing an Infernus are that it isn't used in other races (ours or R*), and it brings back a little of the endurance aspect of the event after cleaning up traffic and gangsters.

Do off-road tires improve handling when driving off-road or is this mostly cosmetic modification? What about the other way around with off-road tires on street courses?

That route you are using into Dillimore is insane. Driving through the bushes and hoping to avoid the river and wall is difficult to manage at speed. I can manage it fairly well if I am heavy on the camera control. Do you think that mouse look is helping you out?

Your Dillimore to Unity route is irritating me. There's plenty of traffic, even at night, I have a hard time managing a clean run unless I really slow down for the last section of the leg.

I really like your alternate route for the final leg. With the exception of the last intersection, I think I can run that route very quickly.

I found a couple more routes for the Dillimore to Unity section of the course. I haven't worked on recognizing or measuring split times for the different routes, but I continue to be surprised about how many good routes are possible.

July 22, 2007

wow, that's a lot of input to digest.

a few comments for now:

Do you seriously want to change the course / starting point / vehicle for Badlands Endurance? Couldn't we use the Infernus for another race, maybe also some kind of

'Endurance'? On some point I considered some 4star race starting on the top of Mt. Chiliad, using the modded v2 save from the chain games. There's 3 race cars there, a Cheetah, an Infernus and a Turismo. Also an NRG, but I was thinking of some race where either one of these 3 cars has to be used. Or an unrestricted race from up there. Maybe even an unrestricted long-distance 'Endurance' race (I do think we should have one of these in the pack).

I have no idea about those off-road wheels - was going to ask you the same question...

As for timing, I don't like the 19:40 start either. Either a day race or a midnight race gives way better lighting than racing into the dusk. If you like the countdown timer idea, we could try starting at 07:40. If you prefer the better traffic situation, we should go for midnight (sniper-moon won't stay across saving / reloading, I'm afraid). I agree with you on the 'no gangs' situation and I started on that yesterday.

As for clothes/wardrobe - LOL, nice misunderstanding

Accidentally running into that wardrobe hasn't happened to me - yet. Oh well. The 'no gangs' save I'm going to prepare will come from a past round of the chain game and I decided to leave CJ's outfit the way it was in the original chain game save. For now at least. Aaaah, seriously, I don't care about outfits, but I think you're right, we should make it at least fairly agreeable. Which I actually thought the 'original' clothes were - c'mon, no underpants, no sandals, no joke glasses, no gimp suit, etc...

End point:

I'm alright with changing it to a Broken-Bridge-Jump, but I also kind of liked the garage idea. In the sense of 'bringing the vehicle back to the garage intact'. Yes, having the garage door open is a bit annoying, and sometimes I even destroyed my Bullet with that final bump against the garage door or garage back wall. But well.

Start point:

I do like Palomino Creek as the starting point. Unlike the Johnsohn House it's a place where in a normal game you wouldn't save too often so having the save game load there gives a nice 'fresh' feel to it.

Vehicle:

I'll give the Infernus a try. Might go with it if the jumps can be done better with it. IMHO those last 2 jumps are by far the most difficult thing in the race - at least clearing them. Triggering the slomo cam is alright, but actually clearing them...

Routes:

Yeah, that route into Dillimore is a bit tricky, but actually not as much as one might think. I go down the hill on the left side of the road, and brake hard just before I hit the first bush - you have good grip there. Then I sort of glide through the bushes and around that corner of the brick wall. Mouse cam might help a bit, but most of it is pure feeling while going kind of blindly. You'll get it after a few tries and it's really easier than it first looks. Big advantage is that you get a pretty good route into the Dillimore jump, I'm hardly having problems with traffic there if I follow this route.

Dillimore to Unity St. - the first bit is tricky and I do brake down there. Sometimes I thread the traffic & sometimes I use the pavement. But the west-to-east stretch I go almost full-speed with nitro. I tried your route following the freeway and I had *way* more problems with the traffic there. But I think I memorized that bit wrongly - I tried exiting the freeway in the 'OG Loc' mission style, which was suicide... A while back I tried a similar route to yours, but turned right sooner, avoiding the freeway. Was eventually going back to try and split-time it, just like I was eventually go back and try new routes, but I can't seem to find the time to actually *play* too much at the moment... Anyway, once you get into it a bit, it's absolutely amazing how many different choices in routes there actually are....

Update: Things look kind of bad for the 'no-gangs' version. Seems as if the function of the save game editor that removes the 'unique jumps' is glitchy. After removing the jumps, the stats said correctly: "jumps found 70 of 70 / jumps done 0 of 70", but when I *did* the jumps during the race, I didn't get the scores. Instead, the number of *jumps found* in the stats went up: "jumps found 72 of 70 / jumps done 0 of 70". Too bad! This means, if we want a race with no gangs, we'd have to have a save game with the story played almost until the end, 100% territories taken, and no unique jumps done. Ideally, no unique jumps even found...

Toyed around with the Infernus and even the Turismo. Still prefer the Bullet, but that's probably because of the practice I've already had with that car.

Update: Started toying around with Katie Jumps and I think I'm dropping the "be there within a time limit" idea. Starting the challenge at 18:00 makes it basically another night race and I think the screenshots look nicer by day. I don't know, by night this challenge doesn't 'feel right' to me... I'm thinking of using a save of a previous chain game as a starter. I'll see what'll come out there.

Edited July 22, 2007 by rubregg

July 22, 2007

No, I don't want to change the course for Badlands Endurance. I was just looking of a solution to the gang problem. I wasn't at all pleased with the options anyway. It might help if we arranged for another gang to be most hated - even on the current save. Or, we could just proof the car against bullets. Controlling vehicle damage is the real objective. Seems cheap to me, but most of the legitimate proofed vehicle aren't worth squat.

My suggestion for the Infernus in Badlands Endurance was to offer it as an optional vehicle. It works very well for my route into Dillimore, which I suppose is much of my motivation behind adding it. Let's not complicate the matter. Keep everything the same except for managing the gangs.

I'm voting for a midnight start time. I've gotten spoiled by fewer peds and traffic coming out of the garage. That's such a blind exit that it's difficult to react and I seldom get a good start. I like that shortcut through Montgomery, but it tends to be blocked by peds during the day. Also, after the Unity Jump, traffic tends to back up at the light just after the bend in the tracks a lot more during the day. Fewer peds opens up the shortcut along the side of Unity Station.

I found another exit from the freeway that looks promising, but I haven't worked out all the bugs yet. I spent a lot of trying different routes, and didn't check my times. Switching between the different saves get confusing, I can't tell when I'm doing well, and don't remember my splits. What I find surprising is that as yet, there doesn't appear to be any clear winner for the best route.

Edit: Never mind. The Ballas still shoot CJ on sight, even if the Riffa are the most hated gang.

Edited July 22, 2007 by OrionSR

July 22, 2007

Final update for now - basically had Katie Jumps finished, and then it turned out there's going to be rain some 8 minutes into it. Damn. Weather seems to be down to luck a lot....

The Chain Game Rallies

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