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ablestar

Abortions

Recommended Posts

nlitement

 

severely genetically defected creatures wouldn't survive in the nature.

doesn't matter, it's like shooting down a horse because he broke his leg, it's unfair, we can't decide the fate of another human being, nature may be progressive, but for example, a deer with a broken leg wouldn't need to run away from hunters if WE DID NOT hunt animals in the first place

Having your limb cut off won't change your genes - you know that, right? Did you also know that deer are hunted by other creatures?

 

Middle aged mean usually get something done. What do unborn babies do? It's 100% the same thing for you to suggest that we should produce as many children as possible to let every possible human "happen". If you look at it, there's no difference between aborting and NOT having kids. It's just that abortion is a choice that's done a little later.

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K^2
Middle aged mean usually get something done. What do unborn babies do? It's 100% the same thing for you to suggest that we should produce as many children as possible to let every possible human "happen". If you look at it, there's no difference between aborting and NOT having kids. It's just that abortion is a choice that's done a little later.

That's a good point. If we go from the perspective of potential life, any life not concieved is life taken. So to maximize the number of potential lives, each man must go out and force intercourse on unsuspecting women, also known as rape.

 

If you are anti-abortion, you are supporting rape!

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Saggy
And yet we do it all the time. We decide the laws which may put someone to death. We decide if we want to fight wars. We decide how much we want to spend on medical research and the medical help for the poor. We decide if we want to research new ways of producing food. We decide on support to poor countries. For all we know, you might have decided someone's fate when you didn't drop a dime in a beggar's cup. For someone who has no right to decide, we do it all the frigin' time. And that isn't lives that are for all intents and purposes just plants. These are true human beings with dreams, goals, feelings. If you want to save lives, look at the stats of deaths due to diseases, wars, famine. Compare it to the abortions, and go solve a real problem.

Man, it is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to research new ways for feeding people and putting a living being to death, the problem lies in FORCE, my problem is what happens when you forcibly kill someone, you didn't give the person choice, NOW i know it's a little ambigous, but abortion doesn't really give choice.

Neither does capital punishment--outside of choosing lethal injection, hanging, or the electric chair. Yet, every day, people support and carry-out executions. What's your opinion on this? You say no human has the right to end the life of another humans life--is that without exception?

 

I've said over and over again, that I don't think that an unborn fetus's rights should out-weigh that of the mother's, and I've yet to see anyone present an argument that makes me think otherwise. The idea that we should preserve all life is rife with double-standards.

 

Aborting babies because of genetic defects? Isn't that the opposite of progress? I don't know that much about evolution, but I thought the point was to promote different genes. I don't necessarily want to say every genetic defect is the next step in evolution, but if we simply cropped out only the genes we want, there's not really any for-sure way of knowing that we're selecting genes that will lead to a strong human race. In any case, I think someone had the same idea of weeding out "bad" genes. His name was Hitler. While I don't think killing a fetus is anywhere near equivalent to killing a person, I think doing it to preserve a gene pool is pretty much the same idea Hitler had to exterminate the jews.

 

When it comes right down to it, though, I still believe the mother's rights completely outweigh that of the unborn fetus. If she wants to abort it because it has blue eyes, then she should be able to. If she wants to abort it because it will have cerebral palsy or some other sort of disability, then that is her right. If we suddenly forced legislature where women were forced to abort their babies if they were somehow proven to have some type of genetic defect, then I'm pretty sure people would acknowledge the extreme injustice and denial of a mother's rights there, why not when a mother is forced not to abort a child? Like I pointed out earlier, that doesn't happen much, but if most of these, "You can't end a human life!" ideologists had there way, then that's what would be reality, and I don't see why anyone is in favor of that.

 

 

Truly, encouraging abortion because of genetic defects simply shows people's tendencies to disregard the mother entirely. Why? Am I just crazy in thinking that the mother's life is far more important than a fetus? I don't think that every life is sacred, and I think that while mother's rights aren't actually over-looked, if the majority of people in this thread had their way, women would be equivalent to surrogates with, seemingly, no rights whatsoever.

 

 

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RIPER

Thats useful devil.gif

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Ph3L1z14n0

 

If you are anti-abortion, you are supporting rape!

dude, you just went nuts confused.gif , the choice of not having kids involves two persons with no possible loss, abortion puts life or death on a future person, without this future person's consentment.

 

Did you know that in some parts of China people count birthdays from the moment babies were conceived? it's funny because a friend of a friend who was from China said she had troubles when she came to Venezuela because legally her age was different, in our culture it counts the moment we are BORN, as in any country from the "mayority"

 

So it would be interesting to ask those people what would they think of abortion

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Saggy
So it would be interesting to ask those people what would they think of abortion

Actually, I was taught that in some parts of China they will force a woman to have an abortion if it is the second consecutive girl child due to over-population. Now, i was taught this in the 1990s in a public school, and I'm sure things have probably changed, but I think you would find the Chinese government ( though the people's opinion would be as diverse as the country itself) quite open to abortions even if this isn't the current practice. I hear various different things about China now and again; for example, one person told me that they do not enforce abortion anymore, but offer it for free; as an alternative, they will take the child from you and put it in a government-run home.

 

Just thought I'd offer that up, since we're talking about China.

 

Also, unless it went way over my head, I think K^2's post was tongue-in-cheek. Though, if not, I still don't think I could follow that...

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nlitement
If you are anti-abortion, you are supporting rape!

dude, you just went nuts confused.gif , the choice of not having kids involves two persons with no possible loss, abortion puts life or death on a future person, without this future person's consentment.

 

Did you know that in some parts of China people count birthdays from the moment babies were conceived? it's funny because a friend of a friend who was from China said she had troubles when she came to Venezuela because legally her age was different, in our culture it counts the moment we are BORN, as in any country from the "mayority"

 

So it would be interesting to ask those people what would they think of abortion

I don't understand how that's possible. If her documents say that her age is her "real DOB" + "9 months" then it is so. How would anyone even be aware of this if it reads so on her documents? She shouldn't face any legal trouble, unless she's under "18" under Venezuelan law (I hope you get the point), then she should be slapped for bringing it up in the first place and confusing officials. On papers you're 9 months older than you should be, be happy, and please don't confuse anyone, especially officials.

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K^2
If you are anti-abortion, you are supporting rape!

dude, you just went nuts confused.gif , the choice of not having kids involves two persons with no possible loss, abortion puts life or death on a future person, without this future person's consentment.

Lets say I go out, rape a woman, and she gets pregnant. That's a possible life. By not going out and doing so, I deny the life to that future person without that future person's consent. This is exactly the same argument that you are using against abortion used to support rape. Reductio ad absurdum.

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Saggy
If you are anti-abortion, you are supporting rape!

dude, you just went nuts confused.gif , the choice of not having kids involves two persons with no possible loss, abortion puts life or death on a future person, without this future person's consentment.

Lets say I go out, rape a woman, and she gets pregnant. That's a possible life. By not going out and doing so, I deny the life to that future person without that future person's consent. This is exactly the same argument that you are using against abortion used to support rape. Reductio ad absurdum.

All right, there we go, that's the piece of the puzzle I missed. Aren't there still culture where women are forced into pregnancy ( not necessarily through rape, but still against their will )?

 

Most people would say that it is wrong because the female does not have consent, and I agree with that sentiment. What difference is there in denying the woman her consent to abort a fetus at any time? You're still deliberately removing that right, and using the argument that, "The potential life doesn't consent to it." What sense does that make? The potential life is completely reliant upon the host of the mother; if she does not consent to it, then how is it morally just to deny her right to abort? Do not think of this as justification for abortion, but just think of it as two wrongs if you must; aborting the "potential life" without consent, but at the other denying the woman consent over her body.

 

Women shouldn't abort their fetus for superficial or trivial reasons ( moral assertation alert!); but if they cannot afford to raise a child, are incapable of raising a child, have a severe medical condition, are a drug addict, etc., then they should have the right to choose.

 

Some women may be of the mind that the potential life is what's most important, and that they can make the sacrifice ( I've known women willing to die to give birth, just to you realize the extent of "sacrifice"), but there are some women who do not want to make that sacrifice.

 

Of course, however, the argument comes in at this time, "It's a human life, you shouldn't end a human life." Read that statement carefully. "You should not..." A suggestion of morality, not a law. A woman will choose to do what she wants with a child in the end; this is the reality of the situation. Some women will be dissuaded by abortion laws, other women will risk back-alley abortions; and even more women will be elated to have a child. The point however, is that the idea of forcing a woman to endure a pregnancy, and then threatening to punish her, is doing so without her consent. It is done in a very complicated way, and a way that is really only comparable to rape in one way: it removes the mother's consent from the situation.

 

 

I'm not going to get into whether the mother's consent should be the priority; because in the end, it is the only decision that really matters, and that's why abortion debates are so pointless, and why they go off into such ridiculous tangents like this. In the end, no matter what law says what, women are going to choose whether they'll bare a child, and risk the chance of being punished by whatever judicial consequences are decided upon; whether that be to stone the woman to death, or give her an award, the woman will still choose in the end.

 

Could this be considered an inalienable right? The right to choose to end a pregnancy or give birth? I think this fits the definition of inalienable. The question is the "consent" or "rights" of a "potential life" inalienable? The mother can give life, the mother can take life away. So my final question, is should we really punish women for a choice that is ultimately theirs to make, based off of moral arguments?

 

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Ph3L1z14n0
Lets say I go out, rape a woman, and she gets pregnant. That's a possible life.

Exactly, like i said, rape in many cases doesn't have to be a reason for abortion, IT IS A POSSIBLE LIFE, if something as horrible as rape happens, then birth means nothing??? i can't blame the women who had abortion to their babies because of rape, of course not, everybody has reasons, but she could also put the baby in adoption, why not??? there are adoption laws which allow that mother to see her son again IF she ever wants too.

 

Abortion is a quick solution to everything, and it simply shows just how much we dismiss life as the only thing we have, the ONLY thing we had, we do not have ANYTHING, the one and only thing you have for yourself is your life and what you do with i it.

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nlitement

 

Lets say I go out, rape a woman, and she gets pregnant. That's a possible life.

Exactly, like i said, rape in many cases doesn't have to be a reason for abortion, IT IS A POSSIBLE LIFE, if something as horrible as rape happens, then birth means nothing??? i can't blame the women who had abortion to their babies because of rape, of course not, everybody has reasons, but she could also put the baby in adoption, why not??? there are adoption laws which allow that mother to see her son again IF she ever wants too.

 

Abortion is a quick solution to everything, and it simply shows just how much we dismiss life as the only thing we have, the ONLY thing we had, we do not have ANYTHING, the one and only thing you have for yourself is your life and what you do with i it.

What he said (formulated from my argument that NOT giving birth is the same thing as doing an abortion) is that every time somebody rapes a woman, it's the same thing as canceling an abortion. If everyone of us raped literally as much as possible then your premise against abortion would be fulfilled = every "possible life" would come true. It's a really vague way to justify life by saying that someone's possibility is terminated. Every time you DON'T copulate/rape/donate sperm you're basically not giving the "chance" for this someone to come true; so start jacking that cock, cowboy, it might be someone destined to be a great leader or a scientist!

 

 

Refusing to use your penis to impregnate and make a new person appear even though you are well capable to do so. = DENYING "SOMEONE" LIFE.

Aborting "someone's" preliminary state. = DENYING "SOMEONE" LIFE.

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K^2

This is probably turning into the best argument against pro-life. Notice how you can't even throw a Bible at it, because "Thou shalt not rape" is suspitiously absent from the list.

 

Off topic: nlitement, took me a moment to get the MCCCXXXVII, but I can't stop laughing now.

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