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saltinespike

How we know there is no God.

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Otter

Wouldn't you say a person's faith is their perception of reality?

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TerminalGTA
Wouldn't you say a person's faith is their perception of reality?

Normally I would say faith would be more the opposite, an explanation of something that can't be explained in our human reality.

 

 

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Cypress Hill

 

Wouldn't you say a person's faith is their perception of reality?

Not really. It should be, but it isn’t. In fact, an individual has little choice in what religion they’re going to be part of. If you are born into and raised by a Christian family, you will probably wind up being a Christian for the rest of your life. If you are raised by a Muslim family, you will be a Muslim. I think people should be raised in a more objective environment so they can decide what they want to believe on their own.

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Im Rick James B**ch!

 

Although i have not grammatically expressed it, i would assume that you would realize it was an opinion and therefore not a paradox. Don't skirt the issue.

What the hell kinda bullsh1t backpeddling reply is that? "It's my OPINION that nothing can be proven so it's OKAY that I said that and I didn't really mean it lol!"

 

Why don't you stop spamming words onto the page, take a few moments to organize your thoughts, and say what you mean. So far, there's no reason to reply to your post because YOU defeated your argument when you declared it cannot be proven.

Follow your own advice. Think, then post.

 

It is NOT a mathematical truth. By labeling my comment as an opinion it is implied that is not mathematical truth. It is a philosophical conclusion drawn from observation and contemplation. It refers to mathematical truth, but is philosophical conclusion. So how does it apply to itself? It doesn't.

 

You seem to have a hard time understanding how this isn't a paradox, so I'll simplify it.

 

A female cat states that all dogs are male. "But she isn't male. Thats a paradox!" No, she is a cat, her statement only referred to dogs.

 

My simplified model is similar to the one we are discussing. Substitute the words.

A philosophical conclusion states that mathematical truths are unattainable. "But if truth cannot be obtained than it couldn't be true that truth couldn't be obtained. Thats a paradox!" No, the statement was a philosophical conclusion, it referred to mathematical truth, therefore the statement is not subject to its own claim.

 

 

As for your original statement:

 

God's existence is unprovable.

 

Of course god's existence isn't unprovable. God either EXISTS or DOESN'T EXIST. One or the other. Not both. Not none of the above. He's either out there or he's not. Because of that, it's a scientific question which we can approach logically.

You have confused yourself with a basic nihilistic "paradox." "truth does not exist" is a much different statement to "truth is unattainable." It would be foolish to say truth does not exist, but to conclude that it is unattainable (which was what was actually said) is, in my opinion, valid.

 

 

@ prayer discussion

In an episode of Southpark, Stan was wondering why God doesn't answer his prayers. Jesus replies, "if God fixed all our problems that would defeat the purpose of life." Many Christians that i have met stated this when questioned about Gods lack of activity in relation to answering prayers. But if you believed this, then why do you still pray? Why do you thank God when these prayers are "answered"? And why did God answer prayers so readily 2000 years ago? Has he only just realized that this would defeat the purpose of life? If so, wouldn't this philosophical development contradict his claimed perfection?

Edited by Im Rick James B**ch!

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Otter
Wouldn't you say a person's faith is their perception of reality?

Not really. It should be, but it isn’t. In fact, an individual has little choice in what religion they’re going to be part of. If you are born into and raised by a Christian family, you will probably wind up being a Christian for the rest of your life. If you are raised by a Muslim family, you will be a Muslim. I think people should be raised in a more objective environment so they can decide what they want to believe on their own.

I think you're missing my point. If a person believes in, say, Catholicism - that is their perception of reality. They believe that god created the universe and that you must lead a righteous life, or you'll go to hell. To percieve reality does not require a choice. It doesn't matter where their faith comes from.

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Cypress Hill

Maybe, I don't know. I just don't think people should 'believe' in a religion because it was beaten into their heads at school or by their parents. Most religious people are predisposed to their religion’s way of thinking. So religious faith is more or less something that is inherited from parents and priests than something a person comes to believe on their own. So I guess you could say that a Catholic’s faith is based on their perception, but only because the Church brainwashed them into having this perception.

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TerminalGTA

Truly most of us are rational beings, except in the aspect of religion.

 

e.g. If I said to you, I have a book which is written by all powerful creature named "The Crapper" and told you a story about him, you would probably laugh at me and tell me to go away. Yet in many ways if I had this book, and it was several millenia old, there would be very little difference between that and the bible.

 

If I over the next few millenia and those decending from me, said that you should pay me £1000 a week and bow at my feet everyday and worship the [iNSERT IDOL] and said that if you didn't you would be eternally damned forever.

 

But sadly that example is not so different from this

 

Man phones another man....I know that you cheated on your wife, give £200 a week for the next year and [insert other demands] here and I wont tell your wife.

 

The church bribes obedience from those who believe in it.

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saltinespike

Terminal, that's a bit exaggerated (and the title is a bit questionable, no need to explain). For some reason, I don't think you know why the bible is so popular though. This isn't the religion-maker. Christianity (Catholicism, etc.) was already very popular, and all the beliefs were out there; the bible simply organized the beliefs into a book. Of course your book would NOT be popular, not only because no one believes in it already, but it is comical and no one would take you seriously.

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K^2
I think you're missing my point. If a person believes in, say, Catholicism - that is their perception of reality. They believe that god created the universe and that you must lead a righteous life, or you'll go to hell. To percieve reality does not require a choice. It doesn't matter where their faith comes from.

That works in case of the non-organized religions, but with organized religions it is not so.

 

Organized religion must be accepted by a mass of very different people with very different perceptions of reality. These people have faced very different environments, have been disillusioned in very different ways, but they all must accept the assembly-line truths of their religion. If the person's beliefs had to correspond with their perception of reality, the rift between the reality and religion would cause the religion to lose all its followers. As a result, just about every mass-religion will have, as a set of some very fundamental principles, the ideas that allow the followers to ignore the lack of correspondence between how they live their lives and what they believe.

 

E.g. The question in Christianity, "If God is good, why does he let bad things happen," is the result of the disagreement between belief in God's benevolence and omnipotence with the perceived reality of a cruel world. The proposition that God has a plan and he knows better allows such a contradiction to exist unchecked. Perception of reality becomes different from personal beliefs.

 

Mainstream religions have for centuries evolved to tackle any questions that might arise in the heads of the believers with high efficiency. That, by the way, doesn't always means that the religion's answer will be sound. It just needs to make sense to general population. It is, therefore, of no surprise that you find people who view the reality very differently from what is dictated by their religion, and at the same time, honestly believe in both. In fact, I'd be surprised if such people are not an overwhelming majority.

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