Rags to Rags

[geomy]

 

You are just one fish in a big pond with other fish. New York motivation isn't just about turning up here and becoming the king. That's an impossible goal.

We have all heard that GTA IV will not be a rags-to-riches story, but rather rags-to-slightly less rags. This is something some people are having a hard time coming to terms with, so let's look at why this step in a different direction might not be such a bad thing after all, shall we?

 

The Protagonist: Niko Bellic

 

Niko is a foreigner in a place much different than his home, seeking a better life ["Perhaps here, things will be different," ring a bell?]. He knows one person, his cousin Roman, who (so far as we know) can't be completely trusted. He did lie to Niko, after all, to get Niko to help dig him out of a financial mess. Being blood, Niko feels compelled to help Roman, and in turn help himself. Where exactly this help will lead remains to be seen, but it will no doubt be a struggle.

 

...in the main story you've been a crook in a eastern Europe who's just got into trouble and things haven't quite worked out, so you come to America. You're Niko and your cousin Roman has been sending you emails telling you about the beauty of the American dream, five girls, four hot tubs, three apartments... it's all rubbish! He's in debt, but he's a nice guy, so you've come here in trouble together...

 

The Setting: Liberty City

 

In a metropolis the size of Liberty, there will undoubtedly be thugs, gangsters, and street hoods from all different types of backgrounds with varying amounts of power and pull. From the petty thief in the alleys to the mob bosses in penthouses to the crooked cops taking bribes, it is quite unreasonable to think that Niko will be able to conquer crime in the city and somehow rule over all. A city like Liberty should be thought of as it's own entity, and in no way could one man command an entity of that scale.

 

From conversations we had with a lot of crime experts and a lot of ex-policemen, we learned that it's very hard to be a criminal nowadays. The glory days of that stuff are over. That was something that we definitely tried to capture in the story and the experience of the game.

 

The Story: Consistent Believability

 

Much of the focus this time 'round (aside from physics, detail, etc.) will be on developing the story and its characters. A big let down of previous GTA incarnations was the detachment of freeroaming from storyline. After gambling in the OTB and raking in millions, it seemed odd that we would then enter the next mission risking our lives over respect and a couple grand. The believability factor is lost, and in turn, so is our connection to the story.

 

...for this game we felt it [empire building] was going to distract from the way the story worked too much if he suddenly became a property baron worth five billion dollars. It ends up being about asset management, which isn't fun for me, or it ends up creating huge amounts of money, which makes the story seem absurd suddenly. It's like; you wouldn't be doing that now, you've got your four billion dollars. You wouldn't be taking crap off this guy telling you to go and bump off his wife or whatever he might be telling you. You'd be like no, I don't need to bother with your rubbish anymore.

 

The Paradigm: Entertainment

 

For game developers to be taken seriously in this world of Hollywood glamor, mainstream media and overbearing political finger-pointing, they will need to shift people's perception of gaming. When many think of gaming, they think of eating dots while avoiding ghosts, shooting hordes of aliens in outer space, and unfortunately, killing cops for points. Developers have a real opportunity, especially with the latest generation of PCs and consoles, to give gamers the chance to experience a story, rather than be told a story between fragfests. Directors and authors have been telling stories for years, while game developers have been making games. The paradigm is beginning to shift, as popular games are being referenced more and more in movies and TV, and controversial games are relentlessly debated over in magazines and political forums. It is obvious that people are taking notice, and it is time that developers capitalize on the attention by giving more than just an over-the-top shoot-em-up free-for-all, but giving audiences an immersive, emotional, interactive experience.

 

Everyone always says, 'Books tell you something, movies show you something, and games let you do something.' [That is why games] were more interesting, and that was why games were going to take over. Games let you be somewhere. That's an amazing quality. That is something you just can't get from any other medium. The chance to exist in this fantasy world, be it Liberty City, be it Mars, or wherever, I think is a really interesting side of what games are going to offer as an artistic medium and as an entertainment medium. What we tried to do this time was massively enhance the experience of being there. Completely transform it so that the way the story unfolds, the way you deal with characters, the way the world behaves, the things that you can do, all of them give you this reason why you might want to be there and this sensation of living in this world.

 

Rockstar is adhering to their reputation of pushing the medium forward, breaking rules and breaking ground with innovative storytelling, setting and characters. The advances in graphics and physics further solidify that push, and in turn will create a whole and believable world for us to enjoy. If you made it this far, pat yourself on the back, get comfortable, and be ready for an altogether new experience come October. I for one, can hardly wait.

 

Quotes taken from interviews with Dan Houser given by Game Informer, Official Playstation Magazine, and Official Xbox Magazine.

Thanks for reading; questions, comments and criticisms are welcome.

Edited June 5, 2007 by geomy

[Rick88]

Very well done Geomy

 

 

The whole thing was a good read, it kind of gives a good thought of how the game is really going to be "experienced" by us, as we play through it.

 

Rated Good

[jeremy_jeremy00]

its cool that niko wont just end up a mega rich nut case like in other gta games.

this game is throwin up lots of suprises and its gonna be totally different. cant freakin wait!

[mac915]

 

Excellent job! This is greatly needed because there are still people that think by the end of the game, Niko will be a big crime boss in Liberty City.

[geomy]

Thanks, but this is by no means set in stone. These are just my conclusions based on quotes from the source.

 

I believe money will play a much more important role than previous GTAs, but money can't stop a bullet. Like Houser said, it's about survival.

[TonyZimmzy]

I laughed hard at the phrase 'Rags to Rags'. That title alone deserves a topic rating good

[Civkiller]

i'm glad that u won't be making loads of cash...or even if u are it sounds like u'll really need to spend it this time...now we can play the game in fear, we have to think of what we're going to buy when n where...it's going to be a LONG wait...

 

4 months 10 days 15 hours lol

Edited June 5, 2007 by Civkiller

[HEADSHOT ZOMBIE]

That was a very good read and good use of information.. I personally cannot stop reading that entire article in GI. I love the idea of Niko not being filthy rich more and more.. I had different views on this topic a long time ago... But all of that is played out.. I want to struggle. I want a game that gives me a real challenge for once. I don't want to be the big shot... I want to be the bad ass hitman I think Niko is going to be...

 

I can't wait to take it all in..I know we all can't wait...

Edited June 5, 2007 by HEADSHOT ZOMBIE

[victim225]

I don't want Niko to be filthy rich, however, I'd love to own a nice apartment overlooking central park (or whatever it's called).

[HEADSHOT ZOMBIE]

I don't see the harm in buying a nice place and have a nice setup.. Just as long as we arn't the top dog.. so to speak.... I don't want to be the boss anymore.. The more the struggle the more rewarding your accomplishments are.

[jelly]

Oh great, a point-to-point storyline and less pony-farming in order to seem more 'serious'.

 

What a load of sh*t. Let's hope for their sake the interviews are wrong.

[geomy]

 

Oh great, a point-to-point storyline and less pony-farming in order to seem more 'serious'.

 

What a load of sh*t. Let's hope for their sake the interviews are wrong.

Allow me to direct you to Kikizo's Preview 1:

So, is this new GTA storyline still going to be one main story thread? After all, for some GTA critics, it was always something of a stumbling block in previous games that things were presented as being all about freedom, yet, if you want to actually play through the game, you pretty much have to follow one storyline that then funnels you down one path - there aren't multiple endings or anything like that.

 

We didn't expect any clear answer this early but Brown reveals: "What I can tell you - I can't be too precise - but what I can say is that, for the first time, we're really trying to blur the line between on-[mission] and off-mission. So storyline, and what you do outside, and how those two things influence each other. Obviously the storyline is more complex than before; you're going to be able to engage and embark on relationships with other people to an extent that you haven't been able to do before, to a point that hopefully it will evoke emotion within the person playing the game as well. It's something we think is untrodden ground really, especially in videogames, and it's something we're very keen to explore. So you'll be seeing a lot more about that. But in terms of threads and multiple endings I can't really give specifics or say whether that's going to happen." But the storyline in this one is different; it's a lot more about survival than battling.

[agincourtsalute]

 

I agree and Dan has said "it will be more about survival this time" if you take the assets out of GTA then you should get the desired affect I also think Niko should have bills to pay every week that could automatically be taken from you so you could have that place that overlooks central park you just would'nt own it and it would fit in with you helping Roman out with his debts.

[soleil]

The way I interpretted it, he was just saying that the STORY is not rags to riches. That just means the storyline missions won't do anything to require you to have a lot of money, and some later missions will likely be based on the assumption that you're not rich. I don't think that means that you can't get rich anyway, on your own accord, outside of storyline missions. It might make the last few missions funny in cutscenes if someone makes a comment about not being rich and you really are, but that's it. The story is not rags to riches, but GTA isn't just storyline, it's also mule barning.

[geomy]

Ok, good discussion going on here...and two stars before two pages. Are you guys giving me the benefit of the doubt, or did this slip in on the coattails of The Great Ratings Debacle of 2007? Doesn't matter...

@ soleil: Yes, it seems that is the case, but digging a little further, we find R* hinting that they are one in the same. "Blurring the line" between storyline and 'mule barning' makes it sound like the structure of the game has changed. This is GTA, so of course there will be stealing, boning, blowing sh*t up, but acquiring assets across the city, dozens of safehouses, and a wallet with nothing but nines are out. That over the top gameplay has been replaced with a naturalistic approach. Not so much realistic; naturalistic. Like, "If I was in this situation, what would I do to survive?" Kill a cop? Maybe. Steal to eat? Probably. Go buy an auto dealership as a front for a chop shop? Mmm, probably not.

@ agincourtsalute: Paying rent sounds an awful lot like "asset management" and not very fun. Besides, like another person posted in a different thread, who do you pay the rent to when the landlord is dead?

[Broker Gangsta]

But the thing is if Rockstar want realism so bad then Niko can become filfthy rich. I mean I lived in Queens for 6 years and the number of immagrints like Russinas, Mexicans, Cubams, Arabs were getting cash by the sh*t load. I mean tgey run bodegas which basiclly sells drugs out of the store. They run numerous other corner stores and they sell drugs out of them. And I cant begin to put all the other illegal things they do tomake money. Not to mention there are many Europeans like Niko that people hire to do hits and the regular hit price is 10 stacks so thats 10 thousand dollard just of hits not to mention the prices can vary. Plus stock exchange, robbing banks or stores, hopefully smuggling( drugs,people, guns), pimping plus ambulance, taxi, police and home invasions Niko should be making good money. And hopefully they don't put in stupid sh*t like paying 4 bills or gas. I mean I culd see paying rent but other then that thats juss pushing the edge. But like I said since Rockstar wants realism in a game that is far from real then all of the above mentioned stuff actually happens in New Yorkboroghs like Queens( Southside Jamaca Quens, Queens Bridge) Brooklyn aka Crooklyn( Marcy Projects etc) Harlem( Purple City etc) The Bronx, New Jersey aka The Bricks. Hopefully Rockstar really lets u choose wether u want 2 b rich or poor and I hope in the next GTA they go back to what I like in GTA. Extremly unrealistic fun where I can b richer thenI'll ever actually b. And juss 2 note I said wat I want becuzz I noticed that wen people imply we with statments regarding GTA they put their personal opinions in the mix with other peoples personal opinions and a pointless argument goes on about who wants GTA 2 b realistic or who wants it like this or that. But in my opinion I dont see why people want GTA to be so realsitic. GTA is a zany funny game. I men SA was real enuff for me so why make even more realsitic than that. At this rate would u play GTA 5if u have 2 pay for bills or couldnt do any stuff from previous games becuzz u wanted it to be a realsistic game. Make the graphics and physics beter such as Saints Row and that would have been fine for me.

[Topher Ridge]

I actually kinda of agree with you. But I think what he means is your not going to become a millionaire in this game which I like. The reason is I think most of the money you earn in the game is going to Roman to help him get out of debt.

[geomy]

People can argue till they turn blue that they want a game that is San Andreas + graphics and physics, or Saint's Row + GTA universe, but this is not that game. R* is developing a game they want to make, with the story they want to tell. The quotes I highlighted in my first post here are pretty substantial evidence. Another quote from Houser (sorry couldn't find the exact quote or link) goes something to the effect: If we gave the fans exactly what they want, we couldn't surprise them. Expect to be surprised...

@ Topher Ridge: You bring up an excellent point - we have no idea how deep Roman is in...It must be bad though, to resort to calling a distant relative overseas to come bail his dumb ass out...

[soleil]

geomy: Yes I was thinking that basically missions like the one form SA where you start a car garage with Cesar or the ones where you start getting money from the car dealership, or starting up a casino would be out, and thus storyline related earning on a large scale is out. But other things like gambling (not required in the storyline) and then saving everytime you win, but reloading when you lose, could still be in. Get money donkey ranching mode. I know the line may be blurred between storyline and unicorn harvesting, but somehow I think the blurring has more to do with enemy gangs coming after you (not just shooting you when you're on their turf... but actively setting out to kill you) even when you're not in a mission.

[Carlito_Brigante]

My personal expectation is that Niko will eventually run his own organization (like the Albanian or Russian Mafia), the thing of it however will be that he won't be running the city. Just like in real life, most cities aren't run by one organization or family, it's split been several. I think Niko will indeed get to pretty high status, but definitely not the absolute boss of the city. That's impossible now.

[Exkabewbikadid]

@ agincourtsalute: Paying rent sounds an awful lot like "asset management" and not very fun. Besides, like another person posted in a different thread, who do you pay the rent to when the landlord is dead?

I have to disagree a bit here. The necessity of paying bills could enhance the simulation of survival. Let's say you aren't given the oppurtunity to kill the landlord and your ass is evicted. You would lose that safe house either permenantly or untill you scraped up the dough (permenantly in every instance may be going a bit far, expecially if you end up losing most safe houses that way).

 

I also like the idea of having to borrow money from seedy loan sharks. Failure to pay up x amount of money in x amount of time could result in Niko facing all kinds of threats.

 

I must say that I am pleased with what I'm hearing about the story so far. Rockstar seem to be throwing all cliches out the window in favor of something that will hoepfully be unprecedented in a video game so far.

 

I've been saying it for months now. I hope that I feel truly unsafe and on edge in Liberty City. I want to feel as though I can't predict what consequences I may face as a result of my actions throughout the game. I want to be afraid of the dark. I want the "look behind" button on my controller to be worn thin from this game. That's the kind of "survival" I hope Rockstar is after.

 

 

Great topic, Geomy.

[Broker Gangsta]

@ agincourtsalute: Paying rent sounds an awful lot like "asset management" and not very fun. Besides, like another person posted in a different thread, who do you pay the rent to when the landlord is dead?

I have to disagree a bit here. The necessity of paying bills could enhance the simulation of survival. Let's say you aren't given the oppurtunity to kill the landlord and your ass is evicted. You would lose that safe house either permenantly or untill you scraped up the dough (permenantly in every instance may be going a bit far, expecially if you end up losing most safe houses that way).

 

I also like the idea of having to borrow money from seedy loan sharks. Failure to pay up x amount of money in x amount of time could result in Niko facing all kinds of threats.

 

I must say that I am pleased with what I'm hearing about the story so far. Rockstar seem to be throwing all cliches out the window in favor of something that will hoepfully be unprecedented in a video game so far.

 

I've been saying it for months now. I hope that I feel truly unsafe and on edge in Liberty City. I want to feel as though I can't predict what consequences I may face as a result of my actions throughout the game. I want to be afraid of the dark. I want the "look behind" button on my controller to be worn thin from this game. That's the kind of "survival" I hope Rockstar is after.

 

 

Great topic, Geomy.

Yea but with wat u say not everyone wants but then again that goes with alot of stuff. I mean I like GFs but alo of people on this forum at last didnt like them. I liked eating and exercising but once again alot of people on this forum didn't like those either. So the thing is Rockstar dosent want to put in stuff that will make the game to realistic becuase they knw not everyone wants that and if u look at the age demogrph of GTA player I'm pretty sure the 12-24 year olds don't wanna learn how to pay bills in a game or pay bills in real life juss to pay them in a game. Thats not advancing the seriesthats juss adding stuff that dosen't necisarlr need to be there. And I juss wanna knw why do some people on this forum want GTA 4 to be realistic so much but they were complaining about some of the exact same stuff in SA. I dont get wat goes thru sum peoples heads. GTA is a game and games arent supposed to be like lifelike counterparts. I can't think of a single game that has some of the stuff sum people want to be in GTA 4 that is in any other game. I mean if you want to pay rent got have fun and pay rent. I'm on 16 so I dont pay rent yet and I don't want to have to pay rent in a game. If u want money management let it be like in Scarface where u constantly have to buy stuff like drugs or ammo or henchmen.

[Shifty07]

Awesome post geomy, very interesting.

[geomy]

Ok, I like your ideas, X ...always the optimist...

 

 

I have to disagree a bit here.  The necessity of paying bills could enhance the simulation of survival.  Let's say you aren't given the oppurtunity to kill the landlord and your ass is evicted.  You would lose that safe house either permenantly or untill you scraped up the dough (permenantly in every instance may be going a bit far, expecially if you end up losing most safe houses that way).

I still think paying bills doesn't sound fun, but if it extends into the survival aspects, I can see it working. If anyone can make paying bills fun, it's R* (or Will Wright ).

 

 

I must say that I am pleased with what I'm hearing about the story so far.  Rockstar seem to be throwing all cliches out the window in favor of something that will hoepfully be unprecedented in a video game so far.

I agree, R* looks to be re-defining the genre...or even more, video games in general.

 

 

I've been saying it for months now.  I hope that I feel truly unsafe and on edge in Liberty City.  I want to feel as though I can't predict what consequences I may face as a result of my actions throughout the game.  I want to be afraid of the dark.  I want the "look behind" button on my controller to be worn thin from this game.  That's the kind of "survival" I hope Rockstar is after.

On this, I couldn't agree more. Wondering if 'that guy' is eying you, what was that sound!? Huh? What was that over there!? From the Kikizo preview, the sounds alone will be enough to get under your skin and make you paranoid. October needs to hurry the f*ck up already...

 

Damn, just remembered I have to pay my RL rent today

[Exkabewbikadid]

 

I mean if you want to pay rent got have fun and pay rent. I'm on 16 so I dont pay rent yet and I don't want to have to pay rent in a game. If u want money management let it be like in Scarface where u constantly have to buy stuff like drugs or ammo or henchmen.

I think you're seeing such a necessity as being a hidrance to the gameplay. Unlike the requirement of eating in SA, that's not really the case.

 

I'm looking at this not so much from the perspective of "realism", but moreso from the persepctive of cause and effect. One of the big problems iwth past GTAs was that they were largely consequence free. Sure, there were pissed off gang members that opened fire on you if you were in their hood, but that only went so far.

 

If rockstar truly wants to capture the feeling of trying to survive in the game, then you must face consequences at many turns throughout the game. I think paying bills/debts would really give some meaning to the money in the game and open up many more opportunities for things to get ugly.

 

Now I'm not suggesting you should have to mess with utility/cell phone/cable/internet/credit card bills or anything like that. That would be a bad approach at realism and would serve no real point towards creating a worhtwhile challenge for the player.

 

On the other hand making it necessary to pay for a Hotel room to save at that location each time you want to save there could add more meaning to the money system. I didn't like the aproach in SA's LV in which you just paid out $6000 dollars or whatever and it bacame a permanent save point. That made the use of hotels way too passive in my opinion.

 

The catch to all this is that money must remain somehwat tight through a good portion of the game, otherwise it all becomes passive gameplay way too fast. To counterbalance this problem there must be plenty of FUN opportunites to earn relatively small amounts of cash.

 

Just to epand on that last point a bit, let's look at taxi driver missions, for example. This sub-mission in past GTAs was always very passive and pretty much the only reason we did them was to get the cash and get whatever little feature (nitro, jumping hydraulics) was granted for completing them. Given a major overhaul, I think taxi mission could be much more thrilling. Irate passengers yellng at you, people who try to bail on you, unsafe neighborhoods and anything that makes the experience unpredictable could turn this into something fun and rewarding.

[cars358]

 

*first post*

its more like rags to ummmmmmm middle.

Edited June 5, 2007 by Xcommunicated

[mac915]

I think a way to solve the, "What if you kill the landlord" problem is to just have him locked in his apartment all the time. Now hear me out.

 

You buy an apartment, you stay there for awhile and suddenly you get a call on your phone. Its the landlord telling you your rent is due. You go to his door, and a short cutscene comes on. Depending on how long you wait to give him his money, he is either happy with you, slightly annoyed, or extremely p!$$ed off. Either way he tells you to slide the money under the door. If you don't pay him, you can't enter your apartment, you can't save at that location anymore, and if you continue to bother the landlord, he calls the cops.

 

What do you think?

[kilo73]

But the thing is if Rockstar want realism so bad then Niko can become filfthy rich. I mean I lived in Queens for 6 years and the number of immagrints like Russinas, Mexicans, Cubams, Arabs were getting cash by the sh*t load. I mean tgey run bodegas which basiclly sells drugs out of the store. They run numerous other corner stores and they sell drugs out of them. And I cant begin to put all the other illegal things they do tomake money. Not to mention there are many Europeans like Niko that people hire to do hits and the regular hit price is 10 stacks so thats 10 thousand dollard just of hits not to mention the prices can vary. Plus stock exchange, robbing banks or stores, hopefully smuggling( drugs,people, guns), pimping plus ambulance, taxi, police and home invasions Niko should be making good money. And hopefully they don't put in stupid sh*t like paying 4 bills or gas. I mean I culd see paying rent but other then that thats juss pushing the edge. But like I said since Rockstar wants realism in a game that is far from real then all of the above mentioned stuff actually happens in New Yorkboroghs like Queens( Southside Jamaca Quens, Queens Bridge) Brooklyn aka Crooklyn( Marcy Projects etc) Harlem( Purple City etc) The Bronx, New Jersey aka The Bricks. Hopefully Rockstar really lets u choose wether u want 2 b rich or poor and I hope in the next GTA they go back to what I like in GTA. Extremly unrealistic fun where I can b richer thenI'll ever actually b. And juss 2 note I said wat I want becuzz I noticed that wen people imply we with statments regarding GTA they put their personal opinions in the mix with other peoples personal opinions and a pointless argument goes on about who wants GTA 2 b realistic or who wants it like this or that. But in my opinion I dont see why people want GTA to be so realsitic. GTA is a zany funny game. I men SA was real enuff for me so why make even more realsitic than that. At this rate would u play GTA 5if u have 2 pay for bills or couldnt do any stuff from previous games becuzz u wanted it to be a realsistic game. Make the graphics and physics beter such as Saints Row and that would have been fine for me.

What makes you think the game being realistic is going to stop you from doing crazy stuff. You can still go on crazy rampages and jack 10 cars, Hell, in real life you can do that, it will just be as hard to do it as in real life.

[Broker Gangsta]

But the thing is if Rockstar want realism so bad then Niko can become filfthy rich. I mean I lived in Queens for 6 years and the number of  immagrints like Russinas, Mexicans, Cubams, Arabs were getting cash by the sh*t load. I mean tgey run bodegas which basiclly sells drugs out of the store. They run numerous other corner stores and they sell drugs out of them. And I cant begin to put all the other illegal things they do tomake money. Not to mention there are many Europeans like Niko that people hire to do hits and the regular hit price is 10 stacks so thats 10 thousand dollard just of hits not to mention the prices can vary. Plus stock exchange, robbing banks  or stores, hopefully smuggling( drugs,people, guns), pimping plus ambulance, taxi, police and home invasions Niko should be making good money. And hopefully they don't put in stupid sh*t like paying 4 bills or gas. I mean I culd see paying rent but other then that thats juss pushing the edge. But like I said since Rockstar wants realism in a game that is far from real then all of the above mentioned stuff actually happens in New Yorkboroghs like Queens( Southside Jamaca Quens, Queens Bridge) Brooklyn aka Crooklyn( Marcy Projects etc) Harlem( Purple City etc) The Bronx, New Jersey aka The Bricks. Hopefully Rockstar really lets u choose wether u want 2 b rich or poor and I hope in the next GTA they go back to what I like in GTA. Extremly unrealistic fun where I can b richer thenI'll ever actually b. And juss 2 note I said wat I want becuzz I noticed that wen people imply we with statments regarding GTA they put their personal opinions in the mix with other peoples personal opinions and a pointless argument goes on about who wants GTA 2 b realistic or who wants it like this or that. But in my opinion I dont see why people want GTA to be so realsitic. GTA is a zany funny game. I men SA was real enuff for me so why make even more realsitic than that. At this rate would u play GTA 5if u have 2 pay for bills or couldnt do any stuff from previous games becuzz u wanted it to be a realsistic game. Make the graphics and physics beter such as Saints Row and that would have been fine for me.

What makes you think the game being realistic is going to stop you from doing crazy stuff. You can still go on crazy rampages and jack 10 cars, Hell, in real life you can do that, it will just be as hard to do it as in real life.

where did i ever say anything about not being able 2 do crazy stuff. This is about money so I was talking about money I never said anything in this thread about not being able to do crzy GTA stuff. I was juss saying about the numerous ways on how he can go 4rm rags to riches and talking about how stupid it would be in my opinion about paying bills and sh*t like that.

[soleil]

I think a way to solve the, "What if you kill the landlord" problem is to just have him locked in his apartment all the time. Now hear me out.

 

You buy an apartment, you stay there for awhile and suddenly you get a call on your phone. Its the landlord telling you your rent is due. You go to his door, and a short cutscene comes on. Depending on how long you wait to give him his money, he is either happy with you, slightly annoyed, or extremely p!$$ed off. Either way he tells you to slide the money under the door. If you don't pay him, you can't enter your apartment, you can't save at that location anymore, and if you continue to bother the landlord, he calls the cops.

 

What do you think?

I think it'd be simpler if you guys would realize that many many buildings don't just have one landlord. Many of them are leased out by companies, and so killing one guy isn't going to eliminate your source of rent-collectors. Companies own and lease out multiple buildings. Niko should just be living in one of those buildings instead of one that is owned by one landlord.