attention Rockstar

[Demarest]

GTAIII has been out for three times as long as LCS. Yet the LCS forum is deader than the GTAIII forum despite GTAIII being 5.5 years old. Why is this?

 

Like it or not, Rockstar, it's because of your business practices. GTAIII was ported to PC. Not only did this mean another sales wave for you, but it also gave your adoring public the opportunity to modify the game to their liking. This kept interest in the game going well beyond its inherent shelf life. Thanks to communities such as this, where those modifying the game can gather and distribute their modifications, other users find a freshness to the game, again giving it longer shelf life.

 

I am a big fan of the GTA series. I have a pronounced reputation surrounding the game. Therefore I appreciate your work as it is the basis for this. Which is why I am annoyed at such a large company engaging in such poor business practices. Once upon a time, we saw NOBODY going apesh*t over NOTHING. Your reaction was to try and inhibit the modification of San Andreas. As outlined above, this is simply tieing the noose. Thankfully, as pirates show us time and time again anytime a new anti-piracy measure is introcuded, if a human can make it, a human can unmake it. Nevertheless, it left the community divided, with different versions only making things more confusing and harder for those of us furthering the shelf life of the game and interest in the company's work. In the end, those who wish to bypass it can and quite easily. So we're left with a pile of rubble and nothing to show for it except a large company engaging in poor business practices and some of the leading modders--indeed, pioneers of the very art from day one--being permanently alienated. Nobody likes to invest themselves in something they know will be destroyed tomorrow.

 

We are all human. We all make mistakes. It is how we resopnd to our mistakes by which we should be judged. Your actions by not porting the Stories games to PC and by attempting to lock out PC users from the ability to mod San Andreas are provable mistakes. It would be nice if these were rectified. And if you refuse to, I at least hope that you've learned from these mistakes. You're stifling your core audience and that is a poor business tactic. I will not hold my breath and for one simple reason: From the moment your fans showed an interest in modifying the games, documentation of files and/or tools with which to do so would've been a dramatic help. Other games engage in such practices and it only serves to not only bolster the shelf life of the game, but also the appreciation for the company providing it. This would be a smart business tactic, but five years later, we've received almost no help.

[unopesci]

Wow, what a rant. However, I agree with you 100%.

[creeepers]

i agree.

 

is the story even necessary?

[poikly]

Completely correct even though I have the psp and ps2 versions of this game.

 

Rockstar need to think about the rest.

 

If they can port it from psp to ps2, I am sure they can do it with ps2 to pc.

Then again, PC's are quite advanced. Correction, they are EXTREMELY advanced.

So if LCS or VCS came on to the PC, they wont seem as jaw dropping as they were on psp (not ps2, that's sort of the same story).

 

In a nutshell: Port LCS (and probably VCS (ps2 version)) to the pc.

Right on Demarest, the best GTA3 player other than the developers!

[BixDugan]

You're right.

R* needs to make Stories versions for PC.

 

I mean, Demarest had to resort to using a lowly PS2 to play LCS. Having to watch such grainy, low-resolution graphics, his vision may never fully recover....

 

 

This reminds me of the

 

"R* needs to make a PS2 port for VCS"

 

outcry earlier this year.

[pimp_60cent]

This reminds me of the

 

"R* needs to make a PS2 port for VCS"

 

outcry earlier this year.

Oh yes. We were flooded by "VCS To PS2" topics. One member even going as far as having a petition topic were you had to sign your name if you wanted the port, which became locked due to all the havoc and flamewars going on.

 

Anyways, good point Dem. I'm sick of people instanly classifying LCS and VCS, as the "stories". Like Rashon said in another topic thats name racism. VCS and LCS are regular GTA's. The only thing that sets those two apart from the rest of the series, is that they went back to two previous cities and explained some holes in the storylines for III, VC, and SA.

 

I'm not too sure if it comlicated things or explained things better. Take for example the Vic vs. Pete topics.

 

Rockstar should consider porting LCS and VCS to the PC. It would not only increase sales, and keep the community together but still interested in the series, and allowing for modding and such.

[creative madman]

i happen to disagree...sure they can please modders with help...but in reality, modders are still a small sect of people...of every single person i know who plays video games, i can only think of another, apart from myself that mods...and he only changes models for WoW...

 

i definatly agree with PC version and modding...

 

but i dont think the lack of these things is going 2 too greatly affect sales...

 

you, i, and every one else that could, bought LCS, regardless of the fact it was an unmoddable PSP version... and maybe some of us would have bought the PC version just to modd it (as i did with San Andreas)...but i think that the people who buy a second copy of a game, just to mod, are a very small minority..

 

as for the attempts to stop mods for SA...politically this was probably a smart move to ensure that we in future still have atleast our 'boring shelf-state copies'

 

the 'Hot Coffee' scenecs could be re-added to a modable version of the re-released version...transfer some animations, transfer some models, and you have digital sex again....atleast rockstar has made attempts to look like they tried to fix the root of the problem...modding

 

while i agree with you totally, i love modding my games more than i love playing them...

 

objectivly i can see why Rockstar did this, and i would have done the same in their position

[Demarest]

I'm sick of people instanly classifying LCS and VCS, as the "stories". Like Rashon said in another topic thats name racism.

Rashon is wrong. They both (and ONLY the both of them) have Stories in their title. So referring to them as the "stories's" is the most logical way to group them together. If people wish to infer that in so being, they are inferior games, A) they are entitled to their opinion and B) having played LCS, it's very clear we did not receive top shelf R*. Racism is a prejudice. Saying that two similarly named games are inferior because they are sub par for the series, that is postjudice; Judgement passed based on data collected. There is nothing wrth this.

 

 

i happen to disagree...sure they can please modders with help...but in reality, modders are still a small sect of people...of every single person i know who plays video games, i can only think of another, apart from myself that mods...

This is not a hypothetical. These forums, their modding sections, and the amount of modding discussion that spills into the gameplay forums is testament that modding takes place and in a large enough quantity to demonstrate what a smart business decision it would be to address them.

 

Besides, when you say "sure they can please modders with help," you are essentially disagreeing that modability promotes interest and bolsters longevity. This is not an opinion that can be disagreed with. Empirical data proves it. EVEN IF you were to only consider the games found on this forum, I have already outlined that the LCS forums are dead by comparison to the outdated GTAIII forums. Is it because LCS is available for PSP? Of course not because that would help explain why LCS outperforms GTAIII, not the other way around. Is it because LCS came second? Again no and for the same reasons. It's important to realize too that this community is MUCH larger than it was for GTAIII. So more people singing the praises of a newer game, yet somehow it's deader. Why is that? Because GTAIII is available for PC. With this, many MANY doors open. You see, it's not just about mods. Hell, I apply my talents these days mostly for fixing errors R* left in, creating "tools" to help people analyze their game or pass part of their game. There's trainers, etc. On PC, the limits are nearly endless as to what we can do and therefore how fresh we can make a game that is over five years old now.

 

 

but i dont think the lack of these things is going 2 too greatly affect sales...

Again, not something left to opinion. PSP + PS2 + PC > PSP + PS2

 

 

maybe some of us would have bought the PC version just to modd it (as i did with San Andreas)...but i think that the people who buy a second copy of a game, just to mod, are a very small minority..

Which is of course why they bothered to port GTAIII, VC, and SA to the PC, correct? And those weren't originally done for the sake of modding. They were done so that players could experience superior graphics, sound, control, and customization by way of skins and radio.

 

 

as for the attempts to stop mods for SA...politically this was probably a smart move to ensure that we in future still have atleast our 'boring shelf-state copies'

That's like saying the US should concede to the terrorists the eastern seaboard. Nevermind the fact that their actions were a misuse of force; Appeasement is always better than doing the right thing. The MPAA is a joke to begin with, but if their rating was wrong because of something THEY overlooked, that's on them, not R*. Furthermore, it was R*'s content and even though they contacted the top modders of the time to let them know that they appreciate our efforts and how it serves to assist in the public's interest, they re-packaged it, fingering modders as the cause. They are a business. They do what they do to turn a profit. In so doing, they had violated no laws and had lay their work bare before a ratings committee for review prior to release. Their closets were clean.

 

Once again, this is not a hypothetical. I've all but tore my hair out trying to release work compatible for two different same games. That's not counting the confusion that has ensued since, the quality, PIONEER modders that walked away, forever damaging the potential of our efforts, and so on. All because somebody looking to boost their own name pointed the finger at the innocent and bluffed a lot of noise in an attempt to bend them to their will. This is the very definition of terrorism and it should never be appeased. ESPECIALLY not at the cost of your core audience, who were in fact thanklessly, and without reward giving free service for R*'s benefit. You want to talk about politically correct?

 

 

objectivly i can see why Rockstar did this, and i would have done the same in their position

That's your call to make. The topic is about how that is poor business practices.

[C.R.A.S.H?]

Demarest, Discpite your wits and love for GTA Rockstar will never bring it too the PC, See when Sony heard about The "Stories" Series, they did not want Microsoft to snatch it too, and get more profits, imediatly they purchased the license for the series. Sony is that greedy. I also want to point out, Rockstar Games has sold the liscense for gta IV to Microsoft, meaning they can publish it for PC, I am the type of person who wants GTA for PC, Better advantages, not just modding, Also, R* will probobly make a no Modding thing for IV on PC to avoid "Hot Coffee2".

[creative madman]

 

Again, not something left to opinion. PSP + PS2 + PC > PSP + PS2

 

just because something is availible to the public does not mean it going 2 effeicently turn a profit..

 

most people with a variaty of consoles, compaitble PC, Xbox AND PS2, bought only the PS2 version beuase it was the frist one to be relased...

 

 

They were done so that players could experience superior graphics, sound, control, and customization by way of skins and radio.

actully i thinkk the reason they made a PC copy was for the market of people without PS2s or Xboxs

[C.R.A.S.H?]

Demarest, Discpite your wits and love for GTA Rockstar will never bring it too the PC, See when Sony heard about The "Stories" Series, they did not want Microsoft to snatch it too, and get more profits, imediatly they purchased the license for the series. Sony is that greedy. I also want to point out, Rockstar Games has sold the liscense for gta IV to Microsoft, meaning they can publish it for PC, I am the type of person who wants GTA for PC, Better advantages, not just modding, Also, R* will probobly make a no Modding thing for IV on PC to avoid "Hot Coffee2".

[jnzooger]

...The MPAA is a joke to begin with, but if their rating was wrong because of something THEY overlooked, that's on them, not R*...

Heh, and what do the fokes at the MPAA have to do with video games? I think you ment the ESRB.

 

As for the topic, I too would like the Stories on PC, but mainly so I could play while watching TV. I would still use my Logitech Dual-Action to play it. Now that I have used the controller for driving, flying, and auto-aim, Mouse+Keys doesn't work for me in most cases. There are times however that I do prefer the mouse aim, like when I'm the shooter on the back of a motorcycle. That said, there is nothing like analogue control for walking and driving.

[Rashon.]

The game racism I was talking about was a joke. I was trying to make a point with it, but even though the ones who label Liberty and Vice City Stories as the "Stories" games have their opinions, but I don't like when they're labeled as that for the reason you said (referring to them as the inferior GTA games).

[Demarest]

They ARE lesser games. With GTAIII, VC, and especially SA setting the bar so high, that doesn't mean they're BAD games. I LOVE the LCS radio and commercials. But I'd be in denial to not be able to admit that they and the ped banter are well below R*'s usual top shelf material. It was intended for a lesser system. No harm in that.

 

 

The game racism I was talking about was a joke.

Don't you hate it when people misrepresent the things you've said?

[Exkabewbikadid]

I'll through in my two cents...

 

It's kinda sad. I had wished even before Vice City that Rockstar would take III (and later VC), give it a new character, story, music, improved features, etc., and release it at the $30-$40 pricepoint for the PS2/PC. Unfortunately a bastardized version of my wish had been granted.

 

It was obvious to me (and I'm sure to many others) since the moment LCS was revealed that the game only came about as a result of Sony waving money in front of Rockstar. They wanted an exclusive title that would move PSP units, simple as that.

 

I resent that Rockstar ever took the bait in the first place. The GTA series had obviously shown enough success that Rockstar didn't need to whore the series out to a handheld platform for an exclusive period of time. All this really managed to do was alienate fans of the series who had no interest in buying into the PSP platform. Not a cool move at all, not even considering that the PSP still didn't sell all that well in response to LCS. Of course, LCS was then released June 6th, 2006, (over 7 months after the PSP release) on the PS2.

 

VCS proved to be an even worse turn-out as the game found its way to the PS2 by March 5th (about 4 months after he PSP release). Three months after the PS2 release, I went into the local Wal-Mart to pick up a copy of VCS last Friday only to hear the clerk tell me, "We don't carry it at this location anymore, It didn't sell well." I didn't bother to check other Wal-Marts or stores around town (I ordered it online instead), but damn, it makes me wonder just how poorly VCS has sold.

 

Point of the story, Rockstar would have been well advised to make these "expansions" primarily and optimally for the PS2 and PC, then port it over to the handheld. As it stands, we don't even get a PC version. With good marketing behind them, I think these two entries woudl have been much more successful.

 

 

I can only hope that these shoddy business moves don't carry over into the new era, but I'm already having my doubts. Now we see yet more exclusivity bullsh*t cropping up with regards to IV and its supposedly exclusive episodic content for the X360. Already it looks as though Rockstar is succumbing to big business greed when they don't have to do so to be successful with GTA IV.

 

It really is just bad f*cking PR to be alienating owners of one system by offering exlcusive content to the other. Furthermore, those who intend to buy a console mainly to play IV are left with a dilemma over which system to settle on. And won't we all be pissed to no end if both systems get exclusive content, meaning we would have to own both ssytems to get the whole picture. Let's hope that that won't be the case and that what ever one system gets, the other will receive the same, preferably much sooner than later.

 

And regarding the PC version of IV, does it have a prayer? Just as Demarest has said, the PC version will do nothing less than extend the shelf life of a game of this caliber by modding in general.

[BixDugan]

So anyway...

Demarest- do you still have that PS2 to try VCS on?

[LCSurvivor]

Email your rant to Rockstar, if you haven't allready done so. I wonder if they'll reply.

[Demarest]

It's not a rant and I won't by mailing it to them directly. If they are unable to acknowledge their own mistakes due to a loss of sales, the words of one nobody won't change that. Besides, the advances in VC and again in SA show that they listen to the community. Maybe they don't realize that some of the modding greats took off over their horrible handling of the Hot Coffee debacle. Now they will, if they care. I'm not sure how big of an improvement they could make at this point. I don't see them releasing SA AGAIN to re-allow modding. I don't see them porting the Stories to PC. I don't see them ever releasing IV on PC.

 

Thanks for the thoughtful input as per usual, X.

[james_root]

they have to port the 'stories' to pc but they are not doing it and they will not sadly.. i really don't understand the reason r* is not doing this. i mean don't they want to earn more money

[spasmodically_insane]

 

james_root Posted on Jun 6 2007, 19:10

  they have to port the 'stories' to pc but they are not doing it and they will not sadly.. i really don't understand the reason r* is not doing this. i mean don't they want to earn more money

 

Its got nothing to do with money

 

[Demarest]

james_root Posted on Jun 6 2007, 19:10

  they have to port the 'stories' to pc but they are not doing it and they will not sadly.. i really don't understand the reason r* is not doing this. i mean don't they want to earn more money

 

Its got nothing to do with money

But if they did port it, they would make more money, their fans would be more satisfied, the shelf life of the game would be extended, which would pull in more fans in the long run, which means more money... repeata. It's just smart business. If there was never a GTA PC, maybe nobody would notice. But your core audience and the people that work freely to extend interest in the game have come to expect this and serve R* well in doing so.