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saltinespike

History of Humans (Evolution vs. Creationism)

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All-Blacks

There is one interesting point from creationism thats really got to me, how do all species know they need a certain characteristic to help them survive? Take the zebra for example, it has a black and white coat right, but why do you say? Well you wouldn't think so but its a defence mechanism against their main predator, the lions, and as lions are colour blind, the zebra can be camoflagued if hiden in the grass. But if it is true that the worlds life has been created via evolution, how in Gods name does the zebra genetic structure know that the lions are colour blind?

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Cypress Hill
There is one interesting point from creationism thats really got to me, how do all species know they need a certain characteristic to help them survive? Take the zebra for example, it has a black and white coat right, but why do you say? Well you wouldn't think so but its a defence mechanism against their main predator, the lions, and as lions are colour blind, the zebra can be camoflagued if hiden in the grass. But if it is true that the worlds life has been created via evolution, how in Gods name does the zebra genetic structure know that the lions are colour blind?

It's not that inconceivable. The Zebra's DNA doesn't "know" that the lions are colorblind. The Zebras' stripes developed from a random genetic mutation, which is how all evolution occurs, through mutations. Some Zebras may have developed spots, others may have different colors. Eventually some zebras randomly developed black and white stripes. These stripes apparently happened to help the zebras survive better than those without stripes, thus allowing them to reproduce more than those without stripes, and eventually causing striped zebras to become dominant in Zebra populations.

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Otter

How can creationists deny the fossil record? That's what always gets me. Despite the overwhelming logic of evolution, the wealth of evidence in the fossil record should pique the interest of even the most stalwart creationist.

 

I suppose that's why "intelligent design" was created.

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Sina84

This is the thing which annoys the hell out of me about Christian Creationists. Ok, so the Universe is expanding from the center of the Big Bang, and at the rate it's expanding and the formation of the galaxies it's been calculated that the Universe has been expanding for over 13 billion years, and that the earth formed around 4 billion years ago.

 

So, do Creationists believe the Big Bang never happened? Do they not believe the universe has been expanding for billions of years and instead it was all "created" 6000 years ago? Then, why is the universe expanding if not from a center point? Did it move REALLY fast for 5999 years and then slow down for us now? The Dinosaur bones and human evidence dating further than 6000 years, all lies by the evil scientists?

 

Ok, human beings, with their more evolved brain which is really the only difference from other animals have had the intellect to question the existance of everything. And since they've been able to, not having any scientific means of explaining anything, mankind have theorized for THOUSANDS of years and have thought up THOUSANDS of religions and gods to fill in the gaps.

 

Now, you can't blaim them. I mean if you're living in the stone age and see a volcano erupt, or a lightning storm, you WOULD rationalize that it was caused by a supreme being. But that was then. Mankind as a species should know better by now.

 

Isn't it a more plausible explanation that the Christian theory of the universe is just like all the rest? An outdated theory based on ideas derived by what people could see then with the human eye, nothing else.

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Craig Kostelecky

I think it's obvious that creationists have no idea what science really is or how the theories are formed. Evidence for them is just something to ignore if it contradicts their beliefs. Bill Nye has an awesome episode about this general subject in his Eyes of Nye series. It's all about pseudiscience.

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TerminalGTA

Creationism does kind of blow away things that we have established for example the 6000 year thing, even most creationist thinker must accept that is pure bollocks.

 

I however have a view that not every should be percieved on face value. If creation story has a deeper meaning such as to suggest it is a metaphor for something else then it shouldnt be completely dismissed.

 

I suppose one could assume if the above is true, that a creationist can both believe in part evolution and creation story, based on God starting such an event, it is true to suggest that as one of the earth newer members we are more advanced because in effect we are better genetic copies of previous genetic links down the chain. Could this percieved as gods prefered beings. Not sure?!

 

However I have seen a show where historians have gone back through the ages of time to suggest why certain beliefs came to be. The general idea is that out of Polytheism somewhere sprang Monotheism and would assume that at some point Single God belief grew out of multiple god beliefs. Not too sure about this and do not be offended it was on a show. But if this were to be true it is only natural that one belief builds on the next with a rapid movement to newer accepted forms of religion. The arguement is, is agnostics and atheism the next step. Even I doubt it and as thinker and a christian i am in a bit of limbo, I do not believe in creationism, but I do believe that it has some greater meaning than face value, and in the end I suppose if someone is about to die and they have hope they are going to heaven which eases their last moments on earth then is that so bad a thing, even it is not true. Again I have gone off topic but with these things there is so much material and so much information that it is above debate really.

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TubbyJ

This topic is a little dead, but I'll make a post none theless...

 

Let me start off by saying that the stories in the Bible were told by word of mouth for some time before being put on paper. There were many different versions of these stories. Some versions of these stories were put in the Bible, other versions and some completely different stories were left out, this is called the Apocryphia(I believe that's how it's spelled). The books were in Hebrew, which is very different from Greek and Latin, and even more different than English. The books were then eventually translated to English, and there's many versions of the Bible, the most common being the King James version.

 

My point is, there's obviously some distortion of the stories going on. I believe in God, I was raised Baptist, I just want that to go on record. The word that is supposedly used to describe a day is the Hebrew word "ma'ohr". Contrary to popular to belief, this word isn't Hebrew for day, it really means any period of time. It could be a few seconds, a thousand years. or even 152 million years. So evolution could really fit in with evolutionism. It isn't as farfetched as it may seem.

 

Another thing is, according to the Big Bang theory, there was a very small mass that contained all matter in the universe. This mass suddenly exploded, and the universe was eventually created. There's a problem though, what caused the mass to explode? One of Newton's laws of physics is "a body at rest will stay at rest, until an outside force acts upon it". Could an omnipetint being have triggered this "Big Bang"? I believe so.

 

Life on Earth was created by amino acids in ancient oceans forming together to form a system. This is really a one in a million chance, and the chances of it continuing on is even lower. The fact that life on Earth has never been completely wiped out on Earth is another miracle. 65 million years ago, an asteroid impacted the Earth, killing off 95% of all lifeforms, yet that 5% managed to thrive somehow and eventually form us. Another event that had the odds stacked heavily against life.

 

Do I believe in Creationism? Yes. Do I believe in evolutionism? Yes. Do I believe it was all just a random series of events and that life in no way is even special and something significant in the void of the universe? Hell no. Do I believe in Christianity? Yes. Do I completely agree with it? Not really. I think that the way people interpret it and don't think in any other way because they can be narrow-minded is effed up.

 

The Earth in no way was formed in 6000 years, neither was life. It's been proven, people don't understand that sometimes, because they're narrow-minded. When that text was written, ancient peoples couldn't think beyond thousands and ten-thousands. They wrote 1000 years=1 day to God because they had no other way to convey how long the Earth had really been around, they couldn't concieve it.

Edited by TubbyJ

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Pat.

I haven't really read any of this topic, so if this has been pointed out, sorry for being late.

 

I'm kind of an Atheist. I don't believe in God, nor do I believe in Heaven/Hell. That makes my opinion on creationism biased, yes, but still. There's a flaw in the theory of creationism.

 

Adam and Eve. They mate. They have a son. Who does the son mate with? Let's rewind and start over. They mate. They have a daughter. Who does the daughter mate with? Let's rewind and start over.. Oh wait, we can't.

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Craig Kostelecky
Adam and Eve. They mate. They have a son. Who does the son mate with? Let's rewind and start over. They mate. They have a daughter. Who does the daughter mate with? Let's rewind and start over.. Oh wait, we can't.

The argument I've heard from the bible thumpers (which I completely disagree with, but hey, it doesn't take much to convince them) is that humans in that period of time were so close to perfect as one of God's earliest creations that inbreeding would not be a problem. That's also the reason that people back then lived to be several hundred years old. That's what the biggest creationist that I work with has told me in our friendly debates.

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TubbyJ
I haven't really read any of this topic, so if this has been pointed out, sorry for being late.

 

I'm kind of an Atheist. I don't believe in God, nor do I believe in Heaven/Hell. That makes my opinion on creationism biased, yes, but still. There's a flaw in the theory of creationism.

 

Adam and Eve. They mate. They have a son. Who does the son mate with? Let's rewind and start over. They mate. They have a daughter. Who does the daughter mate with? Let's rewind and start over.. Oh wait, we can't.

Adam and Eve had many children. Kane and Abel are the only ones named in the Bible, but it says they have something like fourteen children in all.

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Sina84

 

Adam and Eve. They mate. They have a son. Who does the son mate with? Let's rewind and start over. They mate. They have a daughter. Who does the daughter mate with? Let's rewind and start over.. Oh wait, we can't.

According to the Creationist museum, they were all inbred. Adam and Eve had daughters, and it was only after "Adam's Sin" that genetic deficencies started occuring because of inbreeding...

 

These are the same people who said that Dinosaurs lived 6000 years ago and that they didn't eat meat. And the T-rexes large teeth were used for, no not meat, but breaking coconuts......... And that all animals who got off Noahs ark reinhabited the other continents blocked by oceans by -- I'm not sh*tting you -- floating across these oceans on the debris left after the flood... Like log rafts...

 

These people are f*cking retarded.

Edited by Sina84

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Ph3L1z14n0

Why people can't believe that creationism and evolution were probably secuential? confused.gif

 

God said "let there be light", and light appeared everytime from the begining to this day, god does not create light every single time.

 

The same is with evolution, maybe god created evolution too, as a demostration of the influence that the passing of time has in living beings.

 

why not confused.gif ? really...

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manofpeace

This is all unsolvable. Gather 'round children, Uncle Peace is going to tell you a story. *takes out old pipe and puts on conspiracy face. Yeah, I believe in God and Jesus and their friends, but I also believe in evolution and science. We evolved from little blobs that came from carbon molecules and water, mixed with some minerals and electricity. Humans are biological computers. wink.gif Look at it this way: God was watching the football game Eagles vs. Steelers last year and got very excited while he was drinking beer and eating nachos. He farted very loudly after the Eagles made a touachdown. God made the big bang with his fart and some galaxies were made instantly, thus the very old pictures of the edge of the universe. Over time, our galaxy was made from all the dust floating around in the nothingness. Our sun came from an old star that exploded, thankfully not turning into a black hole. After our sun collected into one clump of gas (har har), the left over dust particles started clumping together, getting larger. They eventually got large enough to be slamming into eachother by force of eachother's gravity, forming large asteroids and rocks. Now, as is obvious, some of the stuff in the previous star's explosion had a chemical mutation or something, and turned into ice. So now you've got asteroids and comets made of ice, all having a jolly time slamming into eachother making the terrestial planets. (Mercury, Venus, Earth, and Mars.) The leftover gases from the sun went farther away because they were lighter, and collected into the gas giants. (Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune.) Appartently, there was a TON of left over ice and rock, so it went out and made the Kuiper Belt. (Pluto and beyond.) Okay, think of the old Earth. And I'm not talking about last week. wink.gif It's a big ball of lava and rocks, with comets and asteroids smashing into it all the time. After all that, a HUGE asteroid/fellow planet smashes into Earth and throws out debris. Most of this debris spin into the Moon, which is very close to Earth back then, like 6000 miles away! After time, Earth cools down and the water vapor turns back into liquid and forms the oceans and stuff. Bacteria forsm from carbon and electricity and some form of miracle, they mutate into fish, large lizards, moles, elephants, monkeys, neanderthals(sp?), humans, squid. This information was mostly learned from the Science Channel, History Channel, and Discovery Channel. They are all part of the same company, whatever it is, and they own this knowledge/got it from scientists. And that's how you all happened. ph34r.gif

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