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saltinespike

History of Humans (Evolution vs. Creationism)

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saltinespike

Alright, time to bring up this age-old debate. Anyone entering should know what both are, but I will give a brief description of both.

 

The theory of evolution does not say that we evolved from monkeys. It states we have a common descent with monkey, a species that broke off into monkeys (most notably, chimps) and humans. The creature (which is unknown to us, I believe) was most likely a primate.

 

Creationism is the belief that God created the Earth in 6 days (which, according to the bible, is 6,000 years). Humans (modern humans, homo sapien sapiens) were developed in one of those days (not sure which one, but it is irrelavent).

 

I believe that creationism is a pile of cow dung, I mean lies. The theory of evolution is based off of over a century's research. We've seen animals evolve, including monkeys (our closest family). The theory of evolution is much more logical and researched, while creationism's only defense is "it's what the bible says".

 

I sure hope that someone can refute this well, because I am looking forward to it.

 

On a side note, please do not use "evolution is just a theory" in your defense. At least, not before you look up the definition of theory. A theory is not just a random ass guess that someone threw together (like creationism), but an inference (educated guess) based on current knowledge.

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K^2

You should not throw all Creationism together under the Christian Creationism like that. There are many different belief systems that imply creation of Human beings and other life forms by higher powers. In general Creationism deserves consideration from the philosophical perspective. If you were created with all your memories and along with the rest of the universe just five minutes ago, how would you know? On the other hand, it is absolutely worthless scientifically. Ok, we can assume that everything was created. It tells us nothing. Even if everything was created, but we do find strong evidence of Evolution, and we can use the theory of Evolution to make predictions about changes in the world we live in, then it is what we should do. Whether or not the theory explains what actually happens is a moot point. It works. It does what it is meant to do. Stick to it.

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saltinespike
You should not throw all Creationism together under the Christian Creationism like that. There are many different belief systems that imply creation of Human beings and other life forms by higher powers. In general Creationism deserves consideration from the philosophical perspective. If you were created with all your memories and along with the rest of the universe just five minutes ago, how would you know? On the other hand, it is absolutely worthless scientifically. Ok, we can assume that everything was created. It tells us nothing. Even if everything was created, but we do find strong evidence of Evolution, and we can use the theory of Evolution to make predictions about changes in the world we live in, then it is what we should do. Whether or not the theory explains what actually happens is a moot point. It works. It does what it is meant to do. Stick to it.

Because it is the only creationism I know a good deal about. Please, send me your interpretation of creationism and I will incorporate it into the original post.

 

With your 5-minute universe deal, why would the creator equip us with evidence that directly contradicts how we were made? Not only that, but they would have to equip all of us with inaccurate memories, which would be possible, supposedly, coming from an omnipotent God. But in all teachings, an omnipotent God is a loving and caring one, when he equips us with intellegence, jealousy, and hate.

 

Off-topic. Anyways, the philosophical view you presented is quite vague, and somewhat iffy. I believe that creationism is just an excuse to how we became (because it was suggested before the theory of evolution) when in fact, it creates more questions than it answers.

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K^2

 

With your 5-minute universe deal, why would the creator equip us with evidence that directly contradicts how we were made? Not only that, but they would have to equip all of us with inaccurate memories, which would be possible, supposedly, coming from an omnipotent God. But in all teachings, an omnipotent God is a loving and caring one, when he equips us with intellegence, jealousy, and hate.

Why? Because he is a mean bastard with a cruel sense of humor. Religions aside, why must a creator be benevolent? Sure, people might want to believe that, and hence they do, but I can't think of any reason to assume that.

 

Because it is the only creationism I know a good deal about. Please, send me your interpretation of creationism and I will incorporate it into the original post.

I'm not proposing any particular interpretation. I'm proposing to look at it in more general terms. Creationism is the idea that life was created by higher power. It is often sufficient to look at as such, without specifying who created what when and for what purpose. You can say that there was a God who created Adam and Eve, some Gods that made humans out of clay, or that aliens bio-engineered us. It is all, essentially, creationism.

 

Off-topic. Anyways, the philosophical view you presented is quite vague, and somewhat iffy. I believe that creationism is just an excuse to how we became (because it was suggested before the theory of evolution) when in fact, it creates more questions than it answers.

If you are looking to have your question answered, your only choice is to turn towards religion. Philosophy always creates more questions, and Science isn't particularly big on the "why" questions. It's more about "what", "how", and sometimes "when".

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Kippers

Why couldn't we have come about using both theories?

 

God somehow triggers the big bang and all the planets are in place. He then sets about creating all these different animals and bugs on the planet thus filling the theory of Creationism

 

THEN..Those bugs and other creatures were left to their own devices and started to adapt and evolve over the life span of the earth into what we now have. Thus filling the theory of Evolution.

 

Then everyone is happy. Eh dunno, just a thought that popped into my head.

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The-King

Because there is no God wink.gif

 

But in all seriousness Creationism isn't a theory (in the scientific meaning of the word). A theory is the most logical reasoning compared to other hypothesis, and backed by extensive evidence, theories are basically true until another gets more viable evidence, and shows more light of truth than the other. Creationism is a conjecture, a guess, backed by no evidence whatsoever, creationism needs to be kept in churches and insane asylums because basically the chance that it's true is so miniscule that a molecule sized electron microscope couldn't see it if chance were a physical manifestation.

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TheJkWhoSaysNi

Keep in mind that the creator in creationism isn't necessarily 'God'. You could consider that aliens or some other life form created the universe or time travellers... Not that any of these ideas have any scientific basis but they're as valid as saying god created the universe.

 

Evolution does not explain where the universe came from so you can't compare them directly like that. It's possible that the universe was created then evolution happened randomly as the theory suggests there's no reason a creator in creationism would necessarily even know that us humans even exist.

 

Of course there's no reason to assume that the universe was created just because we don't know how it began. There are some better theories (like the multiverse theory) that don't require a creator.

 

 

 

 

On the topic of Christians saying that the universe is 6000 years old... Nowhere in the bible does it say this. The figure was arbitrarily reached by adding up the ages of all the people in the bible starting from adam and eve. I have no idea why so many Christians believe this.

Edited by TheJkWhoSaysNi

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saltinespike
On the topic of Christians saying that the universe is 6000 years old... Nowhere in the bible does it say this. The figure was arbitrarily reached by adding up the ages of all the people in the bible starting from adam and eve. I have no idea why so many Christians believe this.

Indirectly, it does. It says that a day to God is 1,000 years. It also says that he made the world in 6 days.

 

x+y=18 does not say 7+11=18, but it does say that if you say x=7 and y=11. Just an analogy.

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The-King
On the topic of Christians saying that the universe is 6000 years old... Nowhere in the bible does it say this. The figure was arbitrarily reached by adding up the ages of all the people in the bible starting from adam and eve. I have no idea why so many Christians believe this.

Indirectly, it does. It says that a day to God is 1,000 years. It also says that he made the world in 6 days.

 

x+y=18 does not say 7+11=18, but it does say that if you say x=7 and y=11. Just an analogy.

A Chuck Norris joke would fit here perfectly any other time.

 

But the reason people believe that the world is only 6000 years old is because most people believe anything they are force fed. Even though there is irrefutable evidence the world is billions of years old they just can't seem to accept anything that converses to their beliefs, the crusades for example, christians slaughtered thousands of innocents because they wouldn't convert to christianity, and firmly believed in Islam, Judaism, or any other miscellaneous religion

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reptilexcq

Creatism is necessary then come awareness and from that come knowledge and evolution thru mind and spirit. But i don't believe that human exist out of randomness or souplike environment. I believe that thru history, human are being monitored and has been genetically altered thru some higher beings out there...being that might not even come from out dimension but has the ability to travel from both realms.

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K^2
Even though there is irrefutable evidence the world is billions of years old

No such thing as irrefutable evidence, especially when your opponents wield something as heavy as a wise beyond measure creator. Could intelligence far greater than human exist? All signs point to yes. Might a creator with intelligence decide to conceal the true age of the world from humans for some reason? Sure. Can you find any evidence that proves it didn't happen? No, by the very statement of the problem.

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The-King

By irrefutable I meant more in the context that those wise enough to see the logic in the idea will come to believe it... Sometimes I don't even know what I'm getting on to.

 

Just like you say I can't find any evidence it didn't happen there is also the exact same lack of evidence for an omnipotent creator, and the universe being made 6,000 years ago. Carbon dating pretty much proves the world is much more than 6,000 years old, and on that why wouldn't an omnipotent creator want us to know our real history, and the truth, if there is one there is no reason to hide behind a cloak of obscurity and keep us in the dark about some divine reason for life.

 

Once again I don't know where I'm going

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K^2
By irrefutable I meant more in the context that those wise enough to see the logic in the idea will come to believe it... Sometimes I don't even know what I'm getting on to.

I wouldn't say believe. I mean, if you believe, you might as well believe in anything. But it does seem more reasonable. And if that's what you are getting at, then we are in accord.

 

why wouldn't an omnipotent creator want us to know our real history

You want me to guess what's going on through the head of an omnipotent creator? I think it takes one to know one, and I do not have a God complex.

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Cawlyeah

Why are we putting these two theories (Evolution and Creatonsim) against each other? Why can't we believe in both of them? I believe that we were developed from more simple animals but something MUST have been standing behind it all wink.gif

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saltinespike
Why are we putting these two theories (Evolution and Creatonsim) against each other? Why can't we believe in both of them? I believe that we were developed from more simple animals but something MUST have been standing behind it all wink.gif

Not saying you can't believe that. But for this debate, they are against each other. Either or. Otherwise there would be no debate at all!

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TheJkWhoSaysNi
Why are we putting these two theories (Evolution and Creatonsim) against each other? Why can't we believe in both of them? I believe that we were developed from more simple animals but something MUST have been standing behind it all wink.gif

This is called an "argument from incredulity".

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance and http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA100.html

 

The main problem with this position is that you constantly move the goalposts as more scientific data emerges. As science explains more, God is required less.

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Cawlyeah

These two theories are only partly contradicting each other. Anyway, I have quite complex opinion about things like religion, Creation etc, many theories (or better hypothesis in most of cases) but that would require a new topic.

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The-King
why wouldn't an omnipotent creator want us to know our real history

You want me to guess what's going on through the head of an omnipotent creator? I think it takes one to know one, and I do not have a God complex.

If you think about it, it doesn't "take one to know one," it only takes prior knowledge of the aforementioned "one's" state of mind, and how thoughts run through their head to get an understanding of how they would think about certain situations or otherwise.

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VercettiVice

Notably, our planet lies in the habitable zone of our solar system. How I see it is that we evolved from microscopic organisms or cells that kept evolving until reaching the stage in which we could develop minds and thoughts. The whole 'we evolved from monkeys' theory doesn't make sense to me. I mean, if we evolved from primates, why haven't they evolved?

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Dark Ranger

A good point, well, call me crazy but it makes me more calm beleiving in Scientology that there is a sort of 'Star Wars republic' out there that exiled Humans thousands of years ago...

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K^2
If you think about it, it doesn't "take one to know one," it only takes prior knowledge of the aforementioned "one's" state of mind, and how thoughts run through their head to get an understanding of how they would think about certain situations or otherwise.

That only tells me that I wouldn't need to be the God, but "merely" extremely god-like.

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saltinespike
Notably, our planet lies in the habitable zone of our solar system. How I see it is that we evolved from microscopic organisms or cells that kept evolving until reaching the stage in which we could develop minds and thoughts. The whole 'we evolved from monkeys' theory doesn't make sense to me. I mean, if we evolved from primates, why haven't they evolved?

Monkeys have evolved. Don't be naive. Sure, chimps, groillas, etc. have been around longer than humans, but that doesn't mean they haven't evolved.

 

K^2, I could make almost anything rhyme in philosophy, as many things have, which means that less things will stick. The things that normally stick are supported by (at least somewhat) by facts.

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The-King

 

If you think about it, it doesn't "take one to know one," it only takes prior knowledge of the aforementioned "one's" state of mind, and how thoughts run through their head to get an understanding of how they would think about certain situations or otherwise.

That only tells me that I wouldn't need to be the God, but "merely" extremely god-like.

I'm not saying that you would have to be extremly god-like to understand how a god thinks, but rather understand the train of thoughts that one with a god complex has.

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saltinespike
If you think about it, it doesn't "take one to know one," it only takes prior knowledge of the aforementioned "one's" state of mind, and how thoughts run through their head to get an understanding of how they would think about certain situations or otherwise.

That only tells me that I wouldn't need to be the God, but "merely" extremely god-like.

I'm not saying that you would have to be extremly god-like to understand how a god thinks, but rather understand the train of thoughts that one with a god complex has.

Well, since we don't know any gods, I think we are pretty screwed on that one.

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Arthazzz

Everything had to come from something, but if there is a god (gods) where did he (they) come from? Just out of nowhere?

The same thing can be said about planets and space

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saltinespike
Everything had to come from something, but if there is a god (gods) where did he (they) come from? Just out of nowhere?

The same thing can be said about planets and space

Maybe there is no such thing as "why". Animals don't ask why. The neanderthals didn't ask why. Humans are the first to ask. Maybe we made it up. Why do we always need a reason?

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Otter

Without pursuing these questions, we may as well be on our knees praying to the sun.

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saltinespike

Maybe to you we should. We should be praying (or not praying) to whoever we want to. We are all entitled to our beliefs.

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Otter

Well, you were asking a question, weren't you? Or was it one of those rhetorical "what's the point???" questions, where every answer is both wrong and right because you have to value everyone's opinion as strongly as the next?

 

In short, passive aggressive to the point of utter ignorance?

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Im Rick James B**ch!

Christian Propaganda

Watch the anti-evolution film. Pure Christian propaganda.

 

 

Edit:Sorry for bumping an old topic.

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