The Official Forum Stoners 4.20

[Digïtál £vîl]

Man Slynke. I hate that kind of sh*t.

 

I don't mind if the person I am smoking with is a girl and has those kinds of problems, but a guy should know how to hit a bong. Especially if he is smoking with others. Hell, way back when, my first time hitting a bong, I still had no problem doing it without help. You simply watch the first guy and follow by example. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

 

Girls are fine on that case, unless they like to act like they know how to smoke. Then if they are going to be a bitch about knowing it all, they'd better know how to smoke just as well as any other person in that circle.

 

It sucks though because while living down here in L.A., my smoking habits have decreased compared to up north. I'm still heavier then most around here, but that is simply because I refuse to be as much of a light weight as people down here.

 

I still remember the first time I experienced someone turning down a free bow during a sessionl. I couldn't believe it. To make it worse, this was on 4/20! It was my first year smoking on 4/20 down here in L.A. and was really a new experience.

 

As it stands, my lack of smoking is part money, part decision. I actually haven't been able to smoke any weed for a whole month now. And I'm sure my tolerance is down significantly. But where I am right now, I am going to keep from smoking until I pick up a second job. Hopefully that will be soon.

[just another thug]

I had a friend who couldn't light a lighter or use eyedrops for the longest time. But, thankfully he learned.

[XN22]

Who the hell uses eyedrops? Psh.

[DeuCe]

Or don't you hate them people that will waste your weed, and will hit the blunt and exhale out this big ass cloud of smoke that doesn't even make it into their lungs. They lose smoking privillages after that stunt. Who in here smokes black & milds?

[XN22]

If you smoke black and milds you don't deserve to live.

[DeuCe]

Well then, execute me right now because I inhale them things left and right. lol

[asimov]

Who the hell uses eyedrops? Psh.

You must be one of those people who can smoke without getting red eyes. It seems to happen when you smoke for a while without any breaks.

 

I've only ever used eyedrops if I need to go home and face my parents, or if I'm out in public and don't want to look like a derro.

[EasyTiger]

Whoa, not been in here for a while, how are you all?

[XN22]

Who the hell uses eyedrops? Psh.

You must be one of those people who can smoke without getting red eyes. It seems to happen when you smoke for a while without any breaks.

 

I've only ever used eyedrops if I need to go home and face my parents, or if I'm out in public and don't want to look like a derro.

Sometimes I get red eyes but f*ck that, I never use eyedrops.

[DeuCe]

My eyes get red on Godlike levels, it's rediculous, I've never used eyedrops before though, I didn't think they would do anything.

[beavis]

Who the hell uses eyedrops? Psh.

A lot of nooblets that don't want their mammas and pappas to know that they've been smoking. I stopped using eyedrops when I started forgetting to put them on.

[MindCorrupt]

 

Never used eyedrops, dont really see the point in them. Half the people I see in public think im stoned anyway because ive got dreadlocks. Ive had some bird at a party tell me i smell of weed even though I hadnt smoked it in 2 weeks. I hate being stereotyped but what are you gonna do?

 

 

[jimmy.]

My eyes get beet red, but I don't use eye drops. I wear that sh*t like a badge since I love being high. It's very unnecessary, and it's kind of wierd and unsanitary when people want to share eyedrops, which is what happens every time, so I don't f*ck with all of that.

[DeuCe]

Some wierd sh*t happened to me today when I was high.

I smoked a bowl before school, and headed off to school, and when I got there I swear I asked like 5 people for the time, and they all just walked past me like they didnt hear me. I started to think I was dead or something, like i was a ghost and they couldn't hear me, But it ended pretty quickly. Some random kid pushed me into the wall screamed at the top of his lungs "I AIN'T NO BITCH" at me, and walked away all casual like and sh*t. I walked away questioning life, it was just an overall weird day.

 

What are some of your wierd expiriences while high?

[just another thug]

I use eyedrops on the following occasions:

 

-Going to someone's house whose parents I don't know

-Going to class

-Those random situations where you need them

[Jake]

f*ck that eyedrop sh*t.

[Digïtál £vîl]

Well, for those who have to maintain a functioning lifestyle even after getting high, eye drops work very well.

 

I use eye drops when I need to go out. That includes driving anywhere farther then a few minutes away from my apartment.

I also use it if I plan to meet up with people I know, who don't know that I smoke. I have a lot of people who do know that I smoke, but it doesn't mean I want EVERYONE knowing. I do have to maintain a professional life. And unfortunately as long as weed remains illegal, it will have to stay that way.

I use them if I smoke before going to work.

I use them if I smoke before going to school.

 

 

I kind of find it stupid if someone purposely does not put eye drops in to "be cool" and to "show pride in their habit". Honestly, I am an open smoker, and will talk to pretty much anyone about it if they ask me directly (excluding certain professional acquaintances) but it doesn't mean I wish to stand out completely with some sort of badge of honor. I feel that is foolish. No offense to anyone. I personally wish I could stay in my apartment all day, smoking bowl after bowl, but I can't. I've got sh*t I have to do on a daily basis and some of those things require me to at the very least, not look high.

 

It is unfortunate, but it is how it is.

 

 

In other news, my insomnia has gotten so bad that I am seriously considering getting a current medical card for weed. I'm at the point where I think I might have to seriously consider some medical help with my problems with sleeping. Personally, I would much rather use a natural thing such as weed then rely on sleeping pills. The main thing I am concerned about is the fact that a current court ruling has determined that employers in California can refuse to hire, or decide to fire, an employee for failing a drug test even if they maintain a prescription for marijuana. So that means, that while I am looking for my second job, I can't afford to get a medical card, even if I wanted to.

[Jake]

I don't use eyedrops because it seems to f*ck with my high. Maybe that's just a placebo effect though.

 

 

Also, about the employers, what the f*ck is that? How does that even work? If you have a 215 you shouldn't be subjected to things like that. Drug tests should still be taken, but they need to just ignore the THC content.

[SyphonPayne]

My eyes stopped getting red about 80,000 tokes ago. But they still get dry as f*ck sometimes after I smoke so I sometimes have to wear my glasses as opposed to contacts because I don't feel like messing with eye drops.

[Slynke]

Well, for those who have to maintain a functioning lifestyle even after getting high, eye drops work very well.

 

I use eye drops when I need to go out. That includes driving anywhere farther then a few minutes away from my apartment.

I also use it if I plan to meet up with people I know, who don't know that I smoke. I have a lot of people who do know that I smoke, but it doesn't mean I want EVERYONE knowing. I do have to maintain a professional life. And unfortunately as long as weed remains illegal, it will have to stay that way.

I use them if I smoke before going to work.

I use them if I smoke before going to school.

 

 

I kind of find it stupid if someone purposely does not put eye drops in to "be cool" and to "show pride in their habit". Honestly, I am an open smoker, and will talk to pretty much anyone about it if they ask me directly (excluding certain professional acquaintances) but it doesn't mean I wish to stand out completely with some sort of badge of honor. I feel that is foolish. No offense to anyone. I personally wish I could stay in my apartment all day, smoking bowl after bowl, but I can't. I've got sh*t I have to do on a daily basis and some of those things require me to at the very least, not look high.

 

It is unfortunate, but it is how it is.

Was going to type this same general idea, until I saw you did it for me

[asimov]

Plus eye drops make your eyes feel a whole lot fresh and moist, really I don't see a problem with them.

 

I sometimes use eye drops when I wake up the morning after a huge night on the turps and have sore red eyes.

 

Meh, as soon as I get my car back from the service this arvo I'll be heading to the pub and then possibly back to a mates house to smoke, good times keep rolling.

 

Oh and another thing I forgot to mention, while we were drinking at the pool bar in our hotel we made friends with an Australian couple who had purchased 2g's of coke for Rp 150K (AUS$ 18), They were leaving that arvo though so they just gave it to us. It was clear why they gave it away because it was extremely low quality, probably the worst quality of any drug I've ever tried.

 

Still got a mild buzz after 4 lines though , we quit after that and gave the rest to some of our friends.

 

[Digïtál £vîl]

 

I don't use eyedrops because it seems to f*ck with my high.  Maybe that's just a placebo effect though.

 

 

Also, about the employers, what the f*ck is that?  How does that even work?  If you have a 215 you shouldn't be subjected to things like that.  Drug tests should still be taken, but they need to just ignore the THC content.

That is the thing with common law. Most of our current law is made up of decisions which have occurred in our court systems. Especially in the appellate court system. While we have some civil law that is written in statutes, it is always up to certain interpretation. Right now as it stands, it seems that the interpretation of the California Supreme Court is that while it may be legal for medical use, employers still retain the right to end employment if they feel the need to.

 

 

The California Supreme Court's Decision on Whether an Employee Can Be Fired For Testing Positive for Off-the-Job, Doctor-Suggested Medical Use of Marijuana

By VIKRAM DAVID AMAR

----

Friday, Feb. 01, 2008

 

Last week, the California Supreme Court handed down an interesting and significant decision involving medical marijuana, employment law and federalism. The ruling, in Ross v. Ragingwire, is important for what it reveals about judicial attitudes in California, and because the issues it raises may recur in some of the dozen or so other states that have recognized medical marijuana rights under state statutes or court rulings.

 

Specifically, the decision addressed whether employers can, under California employment law, fire (or decline to hire) employees who test positive for drug use only because they have ingested marijuana off the jobsite, in a way that doesn't prevent satisfaction of essential job functions, and pursuant to California's so-called Compassionate Use Act (CUA), passed by initiative over a decade ago.

 

By a 5-2 vote, and in an opinion that was less than satisfying, the majority of California Justices said employers can indeed fire employees simply because the employees use medical marijuana.

 

The Facts of the Case, and the Plaintiff's Argument

 

The facts of the case, as the court accepted them, are pretty simple, and pretty sympathetic for the Plaintiff. Gary Ross is a U.S. Air Force veteran who sustained disabling injuries as a result of his military service. Since 1999, he has been taking marijuana, on the advice of his physician, to alleviate disabling back pain. He was hired by the Sacramento technology company Ragingwire, which, pursuant to company policy, required him to submit to a drug test.

 

Ross complied, and was very open about his medicinal use of marijuana. But when his drug tests came back and were (predictably) positive for marijuana, he was terminated. Ross then brought an action under the California Fair Housing and Employment Act (FEHA). FEHA, a state law similar to the federal Americans With Disabilities Act, requires employers in California to reasonably accommodate the physical disabilities of an employee or would-be employee, so long as the employee can, with such reasonable accommodation, perform the essential functions of the job. Ross argued that since he was disabled but could, through the use of medical marijuana, perform the essential functions of his job, Ragingwire violated his state law rights in terminating him on account of his marijuana use.

 

The Court's First Point: In Light of Federal Law, States Cannot Legalize Marijuana

 

In rejecting this claim, the California Supreme Court made what were essentially two arguments. But these arguments, whether standing individually or together, do not adequately justify the court's result.

 

First, the court said the fact that California has decriminalized marijuana use and possession under medical circumstances in the CUA does not, and indeed cannot, change the fact that all marijuana use and possession remains criminal under federal law. As the court put it, "No state law could completely legalize marijuana for medical purposes because the drug remains illegal under federal law."

 

This is true enough. But why is illegality under the federal law relevant to a state law FEHA claim? The California Supreme Court elsewhere acknowledged that California could, if it wanted, create a FEHA claim for failure to accommodate medical marijuana use, observing that "[t]here is no question. . . that voters had the power to change state law concerning medical marijuana in any respect they wished." Thus, even the court itself agreed that nothing in federal law prevents a state from requiring employers to accommodate medical marijuana.

 

The fact that marijuana use remains criminal under federal law is thus largely a red herring. The key question is what California - not federal - law says about an employer's duty to accommodate.

 

The Court's Second Point: Because the Compassionate Use Act Mentions California Penal Law, It Excludes California Employment Law

 

That brings us to the court's second argument - that nothing in the Compassionate Use Act passed by the voters directly indicates that it applies to the employment context. Instead, said the court, the operative language of the CUA speaks only to the decriminalization of medical marijuana use. In effect, the court reasoned that because the language of the CUA refers only to the penal code, the CUA does not affect employment law.

 

This is a form of reasoning sometimes known in the law as "expressio unius." The entire Latin phrase from which the shorthand comes is "Expressio unius est exclusio alterius." Translated, it means that the naming of one thing excludes others that might have been named but were not. Here, criminal law was mentioned; employment law was not, and the court thus reasoned that the voters meant to exclude employment law.

 

But expressio unius reasoning is not always persuasive, and it doesn't work well with respect to the CUA. For one thing, the CUA states that one of its purposes is to ensure that medical marijuana patients are "not subject to criminal prosecution or sanction" (emphasis added). Although the words "or sanction" might be read to refer only to criminal sanction, they might be read more broadly too.

 

Moreover, expressio unius reasoning may actually undercut the California Supreme Court's narrow reading of the CUA. One of the CUA's provisions says that "[n]othing in this [Act] shall be construed to supersede legislation prohibiting persons from engaging in conduct that endangers others. . . " Under expressio unius reasoning, this provision might suggest that the CUA should be construed to supersede other areas of law, such as employment law.

 

The Court Gave Insufficient Weight to the Fact that this is a FEHA, not a CUA, Case

 

More importantly and more generally, though, the court's narrow reading of the CUA isn't persuasive in disposing of this case simply because Ross' claim is brought under the FEHA, not under the CUA directly. Thus, the question shouldn't be whether the CUA "speaks to" employment law (as the court asked), but rather whether the CUA's existence has an effect on employment law, particularly, on what "reasonable accommodation" under the FEHA means. And it seems clear that the "reasonableness" of an employee's suggested accommodation can be affected by other laws that don't mention employment or the FEHA, simply because the concept of "reasonableness" necessarily draws on other bodies of law and baseline facts.

 

For example, the existence of state laws permitting licensed optometrists and opticians to make and sell eyeglasses to customers means, among other things, that an employer cannot discriminate against an employee with vision problems on the ground that the employer doesn't want to hire people who wear eyeglasses. Unless the accommodation the employee seeks - in this example, wearing glasses --- is itself unreasonable because of the costs it imposes on the employer or other employees, the employee has a right to it, whether or not any statute (such as the one licensing optometrists) specifically mentions that particular accommodation.

 

(The same point can be made with prescription drugs; the federal laws authorizing doctors to prescribe drugs may not specifically mention employment statutes, but surely they affect the meaning of "reasonable accommodation.")

 

On that key question - whether Ross' medical marijuana use unreasonably burdened Ragingwire, or any of its other employees - the California Supreme Court had surprisingly little to say.

 

Given the procedural posture of the case, the court had to accept that Ross wasn't using marijuana on the job, and that his use did not impair his ability to successfully discharge the essential functions of the job. So why is tolerating his use an "unreasonable" burden for Ragingwire to bear?

 

The court said that the CUA doesn't change the reality that marijuana can be abused: "The [CUA] does not eliminate marijuana's potential for abuse or the employer's legitimate interest in whether an employee uses the drug." It is of course true that marijuana can be abused, but so too can (almost) all other prescription drugs, whose doctor-approved use surely must be accommodated under FEHA. Just because morphine can be abused, for instance, does not mean an employer can punish an employee for using it to alleviate disability-caused pain under a doctor's supervision and in a way that doesn't impair essential job functions.

 

Granted, prescription morphine use is legal under federal law, and marijuana is not. But that does not necessarily mean that the feds think morphine is subject to less abuse than is marijuana. And even if it did, again, the question is one of California, not federal law: California voters, by passing CUA, disagreed with any such federal assessment, something the court explicitly said they have a right to do.

 

Ragingwire argued that Ross was subjecting it to a risk that Ross will be arrested by the feds (and thus unavailable for work) and/or that the workplace may be the target of a federal law enforcement search. However, the court didn't rely on these burdens in reaching its result, perhaps because they seem somewhat fanciful.

 

In the end, the majority displayed an inclination to read the CUA narrowly (perhaps because it thinks the CUA has turned out to be bad policy). But it did not undertake a careful analysis of the key concept of "reasonable accommodation" under the FEHA, and the way in which "reasonableness" of an employee's proposed course of action necessarily depends on other areas of law that fall outside of, and that don't always mention, employment law.

 

Article is off of Findlaw.com. I have the actual case summary but I figured that it wouldn't be the smartest thing to link directly to a government website.

[*Word*]

^^^

 

After reading it all though, some parts didn't really make sense to me (the more legal complexities/terms), but some good points were made.

I especially liked this quote:

 

The court said that the CUA doesn't change the reality that marijuana can be abused: "The [CUA] does not eliminate marijuana's potential for abuse or the employer's legitimate interest in whether an employee uses the drug." It is of course true that marijuana can be abused, but so too can (almost) all other prescription drugs, whose doctor-approved use surely must be accommodated under FEHA. Just because morphine can be abused, for instance, does not mean an employer can punish an employee for using it to alleviate disability-caused pain under a doctor's supervision and in a way that doesn't impair essential job functions.

Another thing came to mind when reading the article. Even if it was made legal for employers to hire medical users of marijuana, would they do it anyways? Because although it is possible to hire you, their ignorance on the issue may cause them to not hire you anyways.

 

 

Some wierd sh*t happened to me today when I was high.

I smoked a bowl before school, and headed off to school, and when I got there I swear I asked like 5 people for the time, and they all just walked past me like they didnt hear me. I started to think I was dead or something, like i was a ghost and they couldn't hear me, But it ended pretty quickly.  Some random kid pushed me into the wall screamed at the top of his lungs "I AIN'T NO BITCH" at me, and walked away all casual like and sh*t. I walked away questioning life, it was just an overall weird day.

 

What are some of your wierd expiriences while high?

This dude sounds like a wanker. Should of clocked him one when you sobered up.

I always hated coming to school whacked. I always felt like everyone was looking and me and that they knew. Just made me feel awkward. Although the few times I did do it at school, I always did it with a mate who had the same class as me after we'd toke (usually at lunch break). The class afterwards was always hilarious.

[Woody510]

This dude sounds like a wanker. Should of clocked him one when you sobered up.

I always hated coming to school whacked. I always felt like everyone was looking and me and that they knew. Just made me feel awkward. Although the few times I did do it at school, I always did it with a mate who had the same class as me after we'd toke (usually at lunch break). The class afterwards was always hilarious.

I think i wasn't high for maybe 10 days at the most my senior year. If only you could have seen the two other people i went out and smoked with at lunch every day, you'd understand. The one kid is half irish half asian(=chirish) and has the most robust feathery red hair on top of his head, but somehow still retains his chinese aspects in the optical region. The other kid was like 6 7' .

[WalkerBoh]

Some wierd sh*t happened to me today when I was high.

I smoked a bowl before school, and headed off to school, and when I got there I swear I asked like 5 people for the time, and they all just walked past me like they didnt hear me. I started to think I was dead or something, like i was a ghost and they couldn't hear me, But it ended pretty quickly. Some random kid pushed me into the wall screamed at the top of his lungs "I AIN'T NO BITCH" at me, and walked away all casual like and sh*t. I walked away questioning life, it was just an overall weird day.

 

What are some of your wierd expiriences while high?

you might have been mumblin and to high to notice yourself doin it. Cotton mouth and bein real high has left me leaving rooms with many people with puzzled looks.

[DeuCe]

that might have been it lol, but i dont know, I got a kind of big high school. I've never seen that kid before or did i see him today either. It was my first time smokin and then comin to school, I didn't like it, it was a pretty bad high for me, i kept trying to fall asleep.

[ISd3d]

I use eyedrops. I wear contacts so my eyes get dry pretty quick, especially when I puff the blunt and the stream of smoke going up hits me in the eyes.

 

Edited February 13, 2008 by ISd3d

[Slynke]

All others bow to the ultimate eye-drops!

[*Word*]

Bah! Eye-drops schmy-drops. Never really was in a position where I needed to use them. I used them sometimes in other non-smoking situations, but always flinched when the drop went in and never could get used to it no matter how often I did it... maybe I have sensitive eyes... or mabes I'm just a pussy. You be the judge.

 

Just a quick question, which has probably been answered several times during the past 213 pages: how long does marijuana stay in the system for? I'm starting some new job training thing soon, and one of the questions on a sheet asked if I would fail a drug test if given one. I smoked about 2 weeks ago (not much) and prior to that about a month and half ago. Should I be in the clear if given the test?

[Slynke]

You should be fine.. 1 bowl two weeks ago shouldn't cause you to pop.