Choice and Consequence

[geomy]

 

"In all previous GTA games you might have felt like a slave."

 

 

"You have a lot of choice over what you will do."

 

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

According to Houser, Rockstar North is giving people more freedom, more choice, and more sense of control over their destiny.

 

"We tried to provide certain choices about the missions.

We've tried to give the branches that maybe give ways of interacting with the world.

It's a different kind of experience."

One of the things that I think is being overlooked is this concept of choice. "With Rockstar hinting heavily at players plotting their own destiny," let's break this down, shall we?

 

 

"In all previous GTA games you might have felt like a slave."

This is a pretty powerful statement considering the amount of freedom previous GTA games have given us. One can only imagine the kinds of freedom IV will offer.

 

 

"You have a lot of choice over what you will do."

In previous games, this was true to an extent...pick your missions in various order, but always with the same result. No two missions were ever really dependent on another, and none ever really affected another unless scripted. Sure the story arced, but nothing ever dynamically intertwined. Perhaps our choices now will mean consequences later down the line.

 

 

Rockstar North is giving people more freedom, more choice, and more sense of control over their destiny.

I think the keyword in this statement is "destiny." "Their destiny", not Niko's destiny. Could this be an allusion to multiple endings? Or no ending at all, just one inevitable certainty: death?

 

 

"We tried to provide certain choices about the missions."

Certainly, these choices in the missions will affect how our story unfolds. The butterfly effect goes something like: "...something as small as a butterfly flapping its wings can trigger a hurricane half a world away..." Could this mean a new and exclusive story each time we play? Could the final shootout in one scenario be against a character who is your closest friend in another scenario? Theoretically, it could work.

 

 

"We've tried to give the branches that maybe give ways of interacting with the world."

Will the choices we make go so far as to affect the actual environment? Will skyscrapers rise and fall under our hand? Will slums be more prevalent where you and your goons frequent? Will a shipwreck we could have prevented destroy half of Alderney? Will our butterfly effect affect our game drastically? Will each game be a unique snowflake?

 

 

"It's a different kind of experience."

This is obviously married to the now infamous "Things will be different," but the context Houser uses it in here gives a little more insight into what that could mean. Instead of a conventional story, will Rockstar give us an open ended storyline with no winning and no losing? Suggested by Game Informer, "Liberty City is about survival."

 

 

"You are just one fish in a big pond with other fish.

New York motivation isn't just about turning up here and becoming the king.

That's an impossible goal."

 

Edited April 21, 2007 by geomy

[purpboy]

it could be good and it could be bad.. i would hate for one decision i make to negtively effect something i could want later.. but i will definately be stealing me a bmw 745 type car.. whether or not that makes my path through IV good or bad.. ha .. goood topic

[Nikofan112]

I REALLY hope choosing a path is a big part of the game. Imagine it in SA. Instead of fighting Big Smoke, you join him and protect tine drug lab. Thats not me, but it would give choices to the players.

[geomy]

I think a jump to an open ended story would be right on par with the open ended environment GTA is famous for. Instead of comparing our stats and how fast we beat the game or with how few kills, instead we'll be trading stories of our rise and fall, absolutely different from another player's. Would be fun.

[427]

"You are just one fish in a big pond with other fish.

New York motivation isn't just about turning up here and becoming the king.

That's an impossible goal."

This looks like it will be one of the big changes from other GTA games. By the end of the game you may not run the city. the missons always lead to killing the main 'boss' in a big shoot out and then you get some money.

[Vive La France]

You should be able to be a dumbass and shoot your best friend. Then, if he were a mob leader, you would run the mob. Or you might have a choice which mob you remain loyal to, or become a double agent.

[purpboy]

You should be able to be a dumbass and shoot your best friend. Then, if he were a mob leader, you would run the mob. Or you might have a choice which mob you remain loyal to, or become a double agent.

i can see your point.. that seems like it could be valid on the hang out with him or "her" phrase.

[shaboobala]

I definitely think they're going to tinker with the story mode format. Hopefully, it'll get much more interactive and give you lots of possiblilities. I love a game were you can choose whether or not to screw over/kill other characters and then see the story play out -not necessarily with a different conclusion- just with the (dis)advantage of having killed or not killed a certain character.

[geomy]

Do all these choices and story branches suggest a timeline? Like time plays a significant role: a 4D world? Certain events at certain times are unavoidable, but how you approach it depends on your choices along the way.

[MrHeint]

When Houser talked about hanging with this person because he always has fun things to do, and calling your girlfriend for a date, these comments threw me off. What exactly does this mean, hanging with someone because they are fun?

 

-Hanging with person, fun things to do?- Are these just simple ways to start missions and side missions. Start a mission with a certain gang or organization by calling. Or start side missions/activities like card games, drug dealing, racing, underground fighting, ect... Can you meet pedestrians or characters randomly throughout Liberty, then unlock certain activities?

 

-Calling girlfriend?- Rockstar had to get the memo that girlfriends in SA were very annoying. So can you possibly think they would do the same concept? Or can you meet random females in bars, clubs, streets, shopping, ect... Then if you like the female character, pedestrian, you can try to hit on her. Possibly this entails the two girls, four hot tubs, 15 sports cars fantasy we all have. Maybe R* will allow girls living in safe houses, and when we don't like them anymore, we can simply replace them. Or will they make gamers do stupid crap like in SA?

 

 

And having an open ended storyline seems crazy. There are three gangs right? So you choose one gang, and destroy the others. Or do you destroy all three gangs if you want? And what else will there be? Smuggling, drug dealing, car jacking, business ownership? Will we be able to pick a corrupt path, a more civilized one, or something in between? Or is this open ended story basically pick and choose. If you choose to buy this asset, that other one will become unavailable. If you choose to work with these people, you will kill the others. If you pick this, you won't be able to choose that.

 

Anyway the GI article probably took most of us by surprise. Not what I expected at all. Hopefully R* can deliver on these new concepts for GTA IV.

[purpboy]

The open ending is of much debate because certain people want it and some don't but that's dependent upon how its going to be handled. Personally if they use the open ending in a free for all type of way. More so giving the player more freedom and more control over your destiny as he said. I can actually see you being able to "this or that" without it affecting your overall game more so you can do alot or you can do a little type of deal.

[archiebunker]

Choose Your Own Adventure Books were the sh!t.

[TeesDylan]

props on the hilarious book cover.

 

I...I imagine this could make the game just...f*cking spectacular. If I can play through at least 3 or 4 times and 50% or so of the experience be fresh and unique each time (or something like that), my expectations would be shattered thricefold.

 

BTW, GTA IV is the only reason I'm buying any next-gen console (360, although I'm considering getting Guitar Hero II )

[Dr Doidberg]

^^ same. im only buying a 360 for gta4.

[Toadkings]

Same here. I just brought a 360. I will play nba 2k7 till gta iv comes out.

[geomy]

Please keep this on topic.

[GycuBrun]

 

I liked the pic from Matrix with the blue and red pill But yes I would really like to be like in Fahrenheit...Great game.

[Mister V]

>>>> Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic. A classic example of how choices can be made within a quite linear storyline, with different endings and great dialogue, and all other trademarks of BioWare.

I'm glad this was brought up. Though I'm not sure how R* will set about implementing this, after all, they haven't done anything like this before. Which is hwy I'm inclined to think it will be more nominal than anything.

[moony25]

Branching paths and multiple endings would be nice and add replay value. Dead Rising did a nice job with this to an extent.

[geomy]

How much does choice really affect the gameplay in those games? I haven't played Fahrenheit, Knights of the Old Republic, or Dead Rising...or Fable. Are these really open ended with a different experience every time?

[geomy]

Excuse the DP. but I added some info to the first post:

 

 

"You have a lot of choice over what you will do."

In previous games, this was true to an extent...pick your missions in various order, but always with the same result. No two missions were ever really dependent on another, and none ever really affected another unless scripted. Sure the story arced, but nothing ever dynamically intertwined. Perhaps our choices now will mean consequences later down the line.

 

 

Rockstar North is giving people more freedom, more choice, and more sense of control over their destiny.

I think the keyword in this statement is "destiny." "Their destiny", not Niko's destiny. Could this be an allusion to multiple endings? Or no ending at all, just one inevitable certainty: death?

[Mister V]

I don't think they will ever make the game unplayable after ending the storyline. It's just dumb. Ok, the main char could get killed, but then we would be able to play as his bro or something.

[MrHeint]

I don't think they will ever make the game unplayable after ending the storyline. It's just dumb. Ok, the main char could get killed, but then we would be able to play as his bro or something.

Noooo! The main character being killed would be stupid. I don't want to spend hours (days) developing Niko, then watch some NPC blow him away. That's what Saints Row did. (sorry for spoiler ) Anyway GTA will NOT do the same. We beat the main storyline, and GTA continues the endless gameplay.

 

Hopefully this go-around there will be more activities after beating the game.

[geomy]

I think I was misunderstood. Read more into the no ending at all...Players would continue to play and meet new people, play random missions, earn and lose money, etc. etc., but no "final boss." It's over when we want it to be; a metaphorical death. Besides, I don't care how good you are, sooner or later you'll see WASTED!

[Ph3L1z14n0]

I'm unsure about this thing, remember all the big promises on SanAn, this could be a big flop, maybe the whole choosing thing is just going to one mission without having to do the other, but it's gonna be better if we wait...

[james_root]

i dont want to found my own path i want one ending

[geomy]

I'm unsure about this thing, remember all the big promises on SanAn,

I don't remember anything major about choice in SA...What were the big promises?

[Ph3L1z14n0]

I'm unsure about this thing, remember all the big promises on SanAn,

I don't remember anything major about choice in SA...What were the big promises?

No one talked about free choices in SA, but they did talk about negotiating when you robbed a house, cars that get rusty and having to go to the car wash, or what about recruiting PEOPLE into your gang? i don't remember hiring a ped into my gang in SA...

 

what i mean is that we shouldn't get our expectations too high with the whole "free choice" thing since that is one of the "whole new features" in IV

[geomy]

 

what i mean is that we shouldn't get our expectations too high with the whole "free choice" thing since that is one of the "whole new features" in IV

The emphasis stressed on "destiny," "freedom" and "choice" tell me that this won't be some gimmicky feature that they tack on at the last moment, I imagine it will be fully integrated and will allow for a different game every time.

Edited April 25, 2007 by geomy

[defibrillator]

I'm unsure about this thing, remember all the big promises on SanAn,

I don't remember anything major about choice in SA...What were the big promises?

No one talked about free choices in SA, but they did talk about negotiating when you robbed a house, cars that get rusty and having to go to the car wash, or what about recruiting PEOPLE into your gang? i don't remember hiring a ped into my gang in SA...

 

what i mean is that we shouldn't get our expectations too high with the whole "free choice" thing since that is one of the "whole new features" in IV

its true these promises but there was a cheat where you can hire peds into youre gang. You could even hire cops if they were after you. But thats just to show that they didn't think it would be a good idea and that they just put it in as a bonus anyways.