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Randomname01

Homosexuality, wrong or right?

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Randomname01

I a heterasexual, will probaly never be able to know how a homosexual thinks and how they feel in reality, besides what they say. There is a debate among people on this issue, wether it is wrong or right.

 

In my opinion it is wrong and right, in some ways.

 

How it is wrong: First of all, humans ever since our ape ancestors, had common goals in life that were meant to ensure the survial of the human race: stay alive as long as you can, reproduce, and live a happy life, basiclly that and a couple other things are the main goals that evry human has (exept mentally challenged or mentally problematic people, or people who have different thoughts). But among them is to reproduce. Also keep in mind that the goals are meant to ensure the survival of humanity and are instinctive. But homosexuals are unable to reproduce and homosexuality normally isn't instinctive. So that goes against the main human goal of trying to preserve the survival of humanity.

 

How it is right: Let's see this might not be an easy one for me, but let me think of a few ways. Ok, they might help control overpopulation of earth, a good start. They have no intention of hurting or killing anybody. They have certain ways of thinking that are a bit useful, such as decorating and style, though not neccesary for life.

 

I have to admit, coming from me it is slightly biased, but I hope some of you can make this a good discussion.

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Canoxa

I was ready to come here and triumphally say it was right, since each human has the right to lead his life as he wishes, but you do raise an interesting point. It's right from the human part of it all, but homosexuality has no value or meaning, physically, since as you said, our meaning in this life is reproducing.

 

I stand corrected.

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ntlofub

There are many interests and hobbies practiced by human beings that don't naturally preserve their survival. You are in no position to ultimately define the sole meaning of life, as it is only common sense that free will drives humanity to live their life in a way that is psychologically satisfactory. This includes playing sports, lifting weights, playing video games, and every other harmless activity that does not necessarily preserve humanity, but doesn't destroy it either; homosexuality falls into this category.

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Canoxa

Homosexuality does destroy the preservation of the human race, although only a very small part of it, since only two females and two males would die without leaving at least on descendent, that considering monogamy.

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Randomname01
There are many interests and hobbies practiced by human beings that don't naturally preserve their survival. You are in no position to ultimately define the sole meaning of life, as it is only common sense that free will drives humanity to live their life in a way that is psychologically satisfactory. This includes playing sports, lifting weights, playing video games, and every other harmless activity that does not necessarily preserve humanity, but doesn't destroy it either; homosexuality falls into this category.

But in that case what you were mentioning goes into the category of making life as good as possible, so there will be a reason to live.

 

Ok, sky diving, it can kill you, but it's still fun right? (for most people)

But in the case of making life as good as possible, you are trying to make your life as good as you can, so you will have a reason not to kill yourself. That in turns give people the ability not to ill themselves. I mean if people didn't know how to have fun, there will be no real reason to live. Probaly evryone will kill themselvesw or die of a careless mistake. Then soon probaly the human race will die out. So the thing is that something like sky diving fits in the category of making life as good as possible.

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ntlofub

I don't quite see how homosexuality is destroying human life. Nobody is going to get killed because two men are holding hands in a public area. Sexually transmitted diseases don't target homosexuals any more than they do straight, so the only factor of humanity you could consider homosexuality is destroying is culture. It's hardly different from the other modern-day peaks of sociological cultural activity (emo, goths, etc); a practice or idea being participated by the minority does not make it morally wrong.

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Randomname01
I don't quite see how homosexuality is destroying human life. Nobody is going to get killed because two men are holding hands in a public area. Sexually transmitted diseases don't target homosexuals any more than they do straight, so the only factor of humanity you could consider homosexuality is destroying is culture. It's hardly different from the other modern-day peaks of sociological cultural activity (emo, goths, etc); a practice or idea being participated by the minority does not make it morally wrong.

Well I think you do make a point right there.

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crazyjoe

What ever floats your boat.

 

Got no problems with gays - they give the best haircuts at super cuts tounge2.gif

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Bigs

It is not right, it is not wrong. In the same way that heterosexuality is not right or wrong. I believe that you are born a hetero or a homo, and that both should have equal rights and not be discriminated against.

 

You argue that it is wrong because gays cannot reproduce. Does that mean sterile people are wrong? Old ladies that can no longer reproduce...wrong?

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Randomname01
It is not right, it is not wrong. In the same way that heterosexuality is not right or wrong. I believe that you are born a hetero or a homo, and that both should have equal rights and not be discriminated against.

 

You argue that it is wrong because gays cannot reproduce. Does that mean sterile people are wrong? Old ladies that can no longer reproduce...wrong?

Well, my position that it's both right and wrong. Ok, here about what you said about the old ladies. They were once able to reproduce, but it was only biological aging that is an inpediment to reproducing for them.

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Bigs

Yes, but you say the 'meaning of life' is to reproduce. That seems to imply that once old ladies reach an age where they can no longer reproduce, their life has no meaning...

 

Do you think it is wrong if a heterosexual couple goes their entire life without reproducing?

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K^2

Earth is getting crowded. They are helping us by not reproducing.

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Mainland Marauder

Is it right or wrong for you?

 

That's your answer.

 

It may not be the next person's answer, but it's yours.

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G MONEY $$$

You can't classify it as right or wrong. It is what it is. I don't care about people's sexual preference unless they're shoving it down my throat. And...uh, I realize that might've not been the best choice of words. tounge.gif

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Luke

 

Luke stumbles in late

 

Whether or not our sole existence is to preserve human life for as long as possible is debateable, personally I'd rather believe that we're here to further understand the world, I'd rather believe that science and understanding are the important things in life - but we'll never know why we're here and nor do we need to know.

 

The current scientific research on the subject of sexuality suggests that it's not something that can be changed, infact it's believed to be predetermined before birth, possibly due to concentrations of certain chemicals in the womb etc (the more brothers you have the higher the likelihood too, regardless of whether or not you live with them) - whilst that's not entirely proven I can't think of a single study that's shown someone's sexuality to be changeable, infact even when babies have been brought up as the opposite sex to what they really are - sometimes suggested by doctors if babies happen to be born "lacking" certain bodily parts, their sexuality has always swung back round to being straight (except for a small proportion who are gay...).

 

So considering the above, I can't see the 5-7% of the population that are homosexual ever being a larger percentage, but it's always going to exist - it's proven to exist in the same proportions with animals and it's definitely not an inheritance thing through genetics, else the 'gay gene' would obviously die out. Taking that into account, what makes gay people any different to two straight people who never have a baby (pretty common...). For the same reason - that sexuality can't be influenced - I see no reason for banning the discussion of sexuality in schools etc, most governments now agree with this and over the past 20 years laws have become much more accepting of homosexuality.

 

Interestingly though, just because homosexuals aren't going to have babies themselves, it doesn't mean that they don't serve a purpose in society - to use a (very) poor analogy, the staff who all work with George Bush and pull the strings for him are vitally important to politics, but George Bush is the person who actually orchestrates things at the end of the day - needless to say, everyone still has a role to play. That's the way I think about it anyway..

 

 

They have certain ways of thinking that are a bit useful, such as decorating and style, though not neccesary for life.
Er, I think you need to watch a little less TV and believe a little less in the gay stereotypes - I for one suck at design.

 

 

I was ready to come here and triumphally say it was right, since each human has the right to lead his life as he wishes, but you do raise an interesting point. It's right from the human part of it all, but homosexuality has no value or meaning, physically, since as you said, our meaning in this life is reproducing.

 

I stand corrected.

The problem with what you said is that homosexuality isn't, and never has been an actual choice - if you get to choose between who you have sex with then you're bisexual, do you ever remember choosing to be straight? Do you think you could change and start liking men instead? If the answer to either of those is yes then you're bisexual, perhaps one is stronger than the other, but it's still the case.

 

I don't honestly think that we can say the meaning of life is just to have kids, if that were the case then why don't we all just shag round everyone we ever meet - the population of the world is still on the rise, if anything too fast, so it's hard to justify not liking someone's inability or lack of desire to have children.

 

Oh yeah, it's probably worth mentioning that this is something I feel strongly about, and also that I'm gay.

 

rah.gif

Edited by Luke

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Rayo Puño
Earth is getting crowded. They are helping us by not reproducing.

Amen.

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Cypress Hill

 

The current scientific research on the subject of sexuality suggests that it's not something that can be changed, infact it's believed to be predetermined before birth, possibly due to concentrations of certain chemicals in the womb etc (the more brothers you have the higher the likelihood too, regardless of whether or not you live with them) - whilst that's not entirely proven I can't think of a single study that's shown someone's sexuality to be changeable, infact even when babies have been brought up as the opposite sex to what they really are - sometimes suggested by doctors if babies happen to be born "lacking" certain bodily parts, their sexuality has always swung back round to being straight (except for a small proportion who are gay...).

Actually, if a person's sexual orientation could be reversed because they were brought up as the opposite sex, it would imply that one's orientation is determined by environmental factors, like, in this case, their upbringing. Of course, I've never heard about "ill equipped" children being raised as the opposite sex before, so I don't know the details.

 

 

 

it's definitely not an inheritance thing through genetics, else the 'gay gene' would obviously die out.

 

Actually, genetics could be a factor. Homosexuality Could be caused by a recessive gene, rather than a dominant gene. So homosexuality, if caused by genetics, would be transmitted not by homosexuals themselves, but heterosexual carriers of the recessive homosexual gene.

 

I don't know much about genetics, though, so there may be proof that homosexuality isn't a genetic trait. This is just hypothetical. I just know that homosexuals' inability to reproduce wouldn't cause the gene to die out.

 

 

As for whether homosexuality is "right" or "wrong", it depends on your definition of these two words. While it does seem to contradict human instincts to reproduce, if it were a negative trait, the process of natural selection would have weeded out of the human population. So my guess is that homosexuality is a neutral trait.

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K^2

There are genetic conditions that cause death at early age, preventing reproduction. They are, indeed, caused by recessive genes, but they are also extremely rare, as you would expect. If homosexuality was purely genetic, the odds of a person becoming homosexual would be one in thousands. That disagrees with the statistic.

 

There could be a genetic predisposition to homosexuality, and there could be some fraction of homosexuals whose genetics predetermines it, but for the majority it is still going to be mostly environmental.

 

I believe you also misinterpreted what Luke said. He says that children brought up as a opposite gender eventually chose partners of gender opposite to their true (genetic) gender. This suggests that selection of orientation is genetic for most people.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say that it's mostly about the pheromone triggers. If pheromones trigger the right response in your body, they'll tune your orientation to heterosexual. If the part that is meant to respond malfunctions, you'll end up driven by environmental factors. Most of such people will still turn out to be heterosexual, ensuring that the "broken" gene is still passed along. But that's just my educated guess.

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Luke

 

Actually, if a person's sexual orientation could be reversed because they were brought up as the opposite sex, it would imply that one's orientation is determined by environmental factors, like, in this case, their upbringing. Of course, I've never heard about "ill equipped" children being raised as the opposite sex before, so I don't know the details.

That's actually what I'm saying, if a boy is brought up as a girl, they will go back to being attracted to girls - I'm working on their 'real' gender here, not the one they were brought up as. So it's actually suggesting that it's not environmental factors at all.

 

As for it being a recessive gene, I believe that would create patterns that we could pick up on - so I'm pretty sure that can be disproved also. Recessive genes usually create very exact proportions in the population because of the combinations and the probabilities. I'm not a geneticist, and I don't know much about this stuff either, but if you google the subject I'm quite certain you'll find research papers that explain why it's not genetic.

 

K^2: I think you're right, except it's not believed to actually be genetics by scientists, but instead the concentration of certain chemicals in the womb etc. If it were genetics then identical twins would both grow up with the same sexuality, and this isn't the case. However, the more older brothers you have, the more likely you are to be gay, so it's something that's decided upon before birth, but not by the genes. Weird eh.

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TheJkWhoSaysNi

I don't consider it 'right' or 'wrong'. Homosexuality isn't a matter of morality.

 

I have a libertarian attitude to stuff like this. People should be free to do what they want as long as it doesn't stop someone else from having the same right.

 

Homosexuality specifically, Nobody is hurt by it. There's no reason it should be called 'wrong'. Whether there are any biological advantages or disadvantages of it is irrelevant if 2 adults want to have a relationship what right does anyone else have to stop them?

 

What is wrong is people being discriminated against because they're homosexual.

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Cypress Hill
Actually, if a person's sexual orientation could be reversed because they were brought up as the opposite sex, it would imply that one's orientation is determined by environmental factors, like, in this case, their upbringing. Of course, I've never heard about "ill equipped" children being raised as the opposite sex before, so I don't know the details.

That's actually what I'm saying, if a boy is brought up as a girl, they will go back to being attracted to girls - I'm working on their 'real' gender here, not the one they were brought up as. So it's actually suggesting that it's not environmental factors at all.

 

 

I thought what you were saying was that when someone is raised as the opposite sex, their orientation changed with their percieved gender, while you actually meant the opposite, right? I stand corrected.

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jimmy.

It's neither wrong nor right, it just is. People are born that way, and it is not a choice, as any gay person will tell you; Trying to figure out if it's wrong or right is like trying to figure out if being black or if having blonde hair is wrong or right. Anyone who says it's wrong is self-righteous.

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GM Dude
It's neither wrong nor right, it just is. People are born that way, and it is not a choice, as any gay person will tell you; Trying to figure out if it's wrong or right is like trying to figure out if being black or if having blonde hair is wrong or right. Anyone who says it's wrong is self-righteous.

Exactly. Any Fundie Christian who tries to use the Old Testament{or modified NT stuff} as an excuse for their bullsh*t can shove it up their self-righteous, hate-mongering, ignorant, asses, IMO.

 

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asimov

 

First of all, humans ever since our ape ancestors, had common goals in life that were meant to ensure the survial of the human race

 

I once saw a show called "animal homosexuality", although it really only covered mammals, virtually every one of them (from buffalos to spider monkeys) had homosexual members.

 

Perhaps it is essential in evolution in some way?

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K^2

 

Perhaps it is essential in evolution in some way?

Homosexual animals will have fewer, if any, offsprings. Therefore, I do not see any way how it can be related to evolution. If anything, evolution will tend against homosexuality.

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lesfleanut

I don't mind it, as long as I don't have bang any men (that I don't want to).

 

 

edit: haha... totally forgot about the sloganizer I set earlier.

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AZSupraT

Bringing up the homosexuality issue brings up the belief in God issue at the same time. Before I begin my text explaining this, I want you to understand that I am catholic (not a fanatic,and not a frequenter of church, but just as a choice of religion) and believe in God.

 

Well, God is something very relative when it comes to say that our future is certain, and is what God makes of it. That is a very false statement. Because if our futures were certain, God would make the queer a woman, and the lesbian a man. And of course God sent us to reproduce and live a happy life enjoying all that the earth has for us. But we're the ones to decide our choices in life. God doesnt send us with a specific goal. We make our goals in life, and play a small role in trying to make this a better world, and trying to influence others to do so as we did.

 

I'm not a fan of homosexuality, no. I'm totally against it. But what can we do to stop it? I think the homosexuals choose to be homos not because they want to, but because it's something they can't control. I don't know any homos, or neither do I talk in the internet (none that I have knowledge of).

 

I don't think homosexuality is correct, but it's not really up to me to decide if it's wrong or not. It's up to everyone's own personal choice of sexual orientation.

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LT.Diablo

Well, I myself am a heterosexual, and I don't really see the want to be homosexual but if somebody is just born that way, why not let them "pursue" their own interests. Really, if it's not hurting anyone and they aren't flaunting their sexuality in offensive ways then what is the problem. Personally I think homosexuality is perfectly appropriate, while it may not be natural human instinct/behavior there is nothing primarily wrong with it in my opinion.

 

However, I'd just like to comment on some parts of your post..

 

 

They have certain ways of thinking that are a bit useful, such as decorating and style, though not neccesary for life.

 

Yes, they have certain ways of thinking, but I find it pretty stereotypical of you to think all homosexual people are good at decorating houses, or being stylists. Sure, many of them are, but I myself know a few gay guys, that go out and have a drink just like any straight guy, and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. They certainly wouldn't say "Hey that guy over there's cute" or "Oh my god your top doesn't go with your shoes", as really that's just a media portrayal of a minority.

 

 

...(except mentally challenged or mentally problematic people, or people who have different thoughts)....

 

Exactly. Different thoughts, not fundamental thoughts, but different lifestyle choices. Really, vegetarians are the same if you think about it, they have a different opinion on something, diet, just as homosexuals have different opinions on who they would favour as a sexual partner.

 

Now, another point is, should gay couples of either gender be allowed to adopt and raise children as their own. My personal opinion on this is, as long as the child is raised to know that they can choose their own orientation and lifestyle, without pressure from the media and or friends/peer groups, it's perfectly ok. It's effectively the same thing as a mother and father raising a child, only there are two fathers or two mothers but as long as they love the child it's basically the same thing.

 

Just my 2 cents, also, it's nice that you admitted that your views may be biased, as some people may interpret your post as being ever so slightly homophobic.

Edited by LT.Diablo

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Luke
Bringing up the homosexuality issue brings up the belief in God issue at the same time. Before I begin my text explaining this, I want you to understand that I am catholic (not a fanatic,and not a frequenter of church, but just as a choice of religion) and believe in God.

 

Well, God is something very relative when it comes to say that our future is certain, and is what God makes of it. That is a very false statement. Because if our futures were certain, God would make the queer a woman, and the lesbian a man. And of course God sent us to reproduce and live a happy life enjoying all that the earth has for us. But we're the ones to decide our choices in life. God doesnt send us with a specific goal. We make our goals in life, and play a small role in trying to make this a better world, and trying to influence others to do so as we did.

 

I'm not a fan of homosexuality, no. I'm totally against it. But what can we do to stop it? I think the homosexuals choose to be homos not because they want to, but because it's something they can't control. I don't know any homos, or neither do I talk in the internet (none that I have knowledge of).

 

I don't think homosexuality is correct, but it's not really up to me to decide if it's wrong or not. It's up to everyone's own personal choice of sexual orientation.

You seem to have disregarded a lot of the topic to a certain extent, we've already covered the fact that homosexuality isn't a choice, you sort of caught on to that by saying it's something "they can't control", but then said it was an "own personal choice" at the end - it aint a choice if you can't control it. Did you mean it's upto everyone's personal opinion of orientation instead?

 

Of course God sent us to reproduce? Well, your religion probably says this - personally I haven't studied the bible and care not for it's content, but I'm prepared to tolerate fully peoples' religious beliefs - but at the end of the day people can still serve a purpose here on earth without reproducing.

 

Furthermore, by allowing gay adoption and whatnot they can help bring up kids. A recent study for the Canadian government by the way found that same-sex parents has no detriment to the kid's upbringing, this shouldn't come as any surprise but it's worth noting. Despite this, I confess that as things stand in the world I'd have to think seriously hard about whether or not I'd feel right adopting a kid with a male partner, that's my problem though.

 

As for you not knowing any homosexuals, maybe you should talk to some? You know where the PM button is?

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AZSupraT

 

You seem to have disregarded a lot of the topic to a certain extent, we've already covered the fact that homosexuality isn't a choice, you sort of caught on to that by saying it's something "they can't control", but then said it was an "own personal choice" at the end - it aint a choice if you can't control it. Did you mean it's upto everyone's personal opinion of orientation instead?

 

Yeah, maybe the title interested me into creating a good post. I didn't appear to read on the other posts, but I understand your point. I meant to say it was something to do with each person, instead of a personal choice.

 

 

Of course God sent us to reproduce? Well, your religion probably says this - personally I haven't studied the bible and care not for it's content, but I'm prepared to tolerate fully peoples' religious beliefs - but at the end of the day people can still serve a purpose here on earth without reproducing.

 

Dont you think it's plausible that God wanted us all to reproduce, and influence other to maintain the world? Not that it's a main goal in life, but it's a goal after all. You just proved yourself by saying the gay are very interested in adoption, and want to have kids.

 

 

Furthermore, by allowing gay adoption and whatnot they can help bring up kids. A recent study for the Canadian government by the way found that same-sex parents has no detriment to the kid's upbringing, this shouldn't come as any surprise but it's worth noting.

 

That's why it's a goal in life to have kids, and influence them into creating a better world, or if possible, repeat your doings. In some way.

 

 

Despite this, I confess that as things stand in the world I'd have to think seriously hard about whether or not I'd feel right adopting a kid with a male partner, that's my problem though.

 

About adopting kids for homosexual couples, that would require some kind of voting to do so, involving the whole country population according to their own orientation. I would vote no, for these reasons.

 

Number One - it would influence the kid to become homosexual, and that would make him want to adopt. Those things could become bad as 90% of the gay population want a kid or kids, somehow.

 

and

 

Number Two - Wider array of the homosexual population would mean less reproduction, and more adoptions with lesser kids to be adopted, making for less human reproduction. That's just a myth, cause I doubt that would happen.

 

 

As for you not knowing any homosexuals, maybe you should talk to some? You know where the PM button is?

 

I wouldn't know to distinguish someone. And those who really are gay in here, are afraid, or refrain from saying so.

 

 

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