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Jordan

Sony Talks GTA IV (03/09/07)

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zeta1

Looks like I made a smart decision by choosing Xbox 360. cool.gif

Not that there was any real choice.

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GTA3Freak-2001

 

I know that the big guys at Rockstar are releasing on both consoles at the same time to make as much money as they can, but that wasn't the question. The Question Was: Which console (if any) will give better game play, and the answer is Neither because rarely do Game developers utilize the full capacity of there current technological capabilities in terms of storage mediums and processing power, even though the ps2 had Dual layer DVD capabilities, many of the games released only used about half of what they could have, but the 360 is still stuck using DVDs for games, and since the PS3 uses a higher capacity disk the 360 version will be stuck using a DVD which i suspect will be completely filled if Rockstar wants any decent graphics on the 360, citing the textures part of my previous post, so even though the game experiences will be very similar, the ps3 has the capabilities to be better, and until Microsoft releases a 360 with HDDVD GAMING the ps3 is technically a better console, even though most of the things the two systems will do wont even be close to fully utilizing the full power of either system.

Ah but my friend you see the PS2 when it came out didn't make any use of DVD for games except for the odd game, 90% of games initially were still on CD-ROM(the purple/blue coloured game discs). PS3 is still in its initial stages is is not? So you'll fnd most games are still using DVD discs with the odd game using the new format ie. Reisitance. This is because it costs companies more time and money to create content that will use up this vast amount of space now. That's not business sense as companies would often be losing money that way.

 

As you said the PS3 can have the edge because of its higher capacity discs not that it is right now.Right now includes GTA4 as its been developed for quite a while. So really the PS3 doesn't have the edge at all right now, it may well do in future. But also who's to say MS won't later on decide to reverse their position on HD-DVD not being used for games?

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vcPINK

GTA-Freak2001 you're right that they probably won't use the BD yet, but they can, and i see Rockstar using at least 10Gigs for IV so i wouldn't be surprised if the 360 uses 2 disks, or maybe even 3, just to get all the data on that the ps3 will have.

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zeta1
GTA-Freak2001 you're right that they probably won't use the BD yet, but they can, and i see Rockstar using at least 10Gigs for IV so i wouldn't be surprised if the 360 uses 2 disks, or maybe even 3, just to get all the data on that the ps3 will have.

Saints Row uses 5, I doubt GTA4 would be 10. Get real.

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TheDude5000

Here we go, back into fanboy dribbling bullcrap again.

 

You can never start a console-related topic here without this happening, it's really pathetic.

 

Listen to me:

 

Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion has-

Huge, huge, map

Was at one time considered to be the best looking current-gen game ever

Expansive soundtrack

Ridiculously huge amount of NPC's, most of which have customized scripted actions and dialogue.

USED TO BE SO HUGE THAT IT WAS STORED ON 4 DVD DISCS, BUT THANKS TO MICROSOFT'S COMPRESSION TECHNOLOGY, IT EVENTUALLY FIT ON ONE DISC.

 

Read the above sentences again, let it sink in. Because if even if R* did need more space than what is available, I doubt it would ever get so big that MS's compression tech couldn't fill the void. You gotta remember, the biggest filesizes come from audio, NOT models. So all these complaints about "omg liek the map is gunna be small because of teh dvd" are totally unfounded. And you only need to look at the massive Oblivion game map to see that GTA IV could be that big, or even bigger if R* wanted, and it would fit on a DVD. Couple that in with devs even more familiar with the 360 then they were a year ago, and I don't think there's any need to worry about disc space.

 

Anyone saying GTA IV is going to be on multiple discs is f*cking retarded.

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Mike0

As for Microsoft adding HDDVD gaming on Xbox360: By doing that they would break the most important rule for consoles - "Do not change the spec". Because that way not every Xbox360 owner has the "same" machine and thats not good.

 

Thats why PS3 costs more from the very beginning, because you will be able to play your PS3 games 10 years from now with a 10 year old PS3. I dont know how that will be with the Xbox if Microsoft started fiddling with the spec.

 

But lets now talk about GTA IV biggrin.gif

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Jordan

 

Anyone saying GTA IV is going to be on multiple discs is f*cking retarded.

True...unless Rockstar creates a single-player game and puts it on one disc and then includes a large multi-player game on a second disc.

 

Obviously, if the location of the game has several parts, it won't be split up into several discs.

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vcPINK

 

As for Microsoft adding HDDVD gaming on Xbox360: By doing that they would break the most important rule for consoles - "Do not change the spec". Because that way not every Xbox360 owner has the "same" machine and thats not good.

 

Thats why PS3 costs more from the very beginning, because you will be able to play your PS3 games 10 years from now with a 10 year old PS3. I dont know how that will be with the Xbox if Microsoft started fiddling with the spec.

 

But lets now talk about GTA IV biggrin.gif

all they would have to do is make it so that you can bring in your old 360 and get it exchanged for say 100 dollars to an upgraded one with a HDDVD drive

i mean you already spent 300 dollars on it to beginwith

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GTA3Freak-2001

 

As for Microsoft adding HDDVD gaming on Xbox360: By doing that they would break the most important rule for consoles - "Do not change the spec". Because that way not every Xbox360 owner has the "same" machine and thats not good.

 

Thats why PS3 costs more from the very beginning, because you will be able to play your PS3 games 10 years from now with a 10 year old PS3. I dont know how that will be with the Xbox if Microsoft started fiddling with the spec.

 

But lets now talk about GTA IV biggrin.gif

It just means people will need to buy the HD-DVD addon to play certain games just like people already have to buy the HDD to go on Live or play original Xbox games. The "rule" has already been broken, Sony's done it too although to a smaller degree in the way the 20GB PS3 does not have Wi-Fi.

 

I also believe the reason why MS doesn't allow games to use HD-DVD's is that the USB connection you use to connect up the HD-DVD drive can't cope with streaming the data. However as MS already intend to release a new version of the 360 at a later stage which makes the system more efficient its not that far off to think that they may make the HD-DVD drive a internal part of the 360 at the same time.

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vcPINK

 

It just means people will need to buy the HD-DVD addon to play certain games ...

there would have to be a new add on because the current HDDVD reader only works for movies, and isn't intended for games

but yes MS would have to make the HDDVD gaming internal just to get a decent connection to the motherboard

Edited by vcPINK

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Cran.

 

i smell Microsoft Fanboyism, developers have had the PS3 system for several months before the Japanese Release which adds even more time to the game development.

 

Here is my Slightly PS3 slanted Opinion:

 

Microsoft Fanboyism? Ah, so I must own Vista and think it's the best thing since sliced bread, and worship my Xbox360? Oh, what systems do I have you may ask? I don't own any of them; Wii, 360 or PS3, and I don't have the intent to buy any system any time soon. PC Gaming for the win. Oh, and I don't own Vista, nor do I want to buy it anytime soon, unless I get it OEM with a new computer.

 

I smell an uninformed soul. Here we go again! Have I missed decompiling posts or what? tounge.gif Slightly slanted? Have you heard of the term bias?

 

Here we go!

 

 

look at the hardware specs and the differences between the 360 and the PS3, the only major differences are optical disk technology and the graphics technology, btw Side by Side the 360 and the PS3 are nearly identical in GPU power

 

The Xbox360 has a much more powerful GPU, everything considered. More pipelines (24 = PS3 v 48 = 360) and a very efficient architecture (Which allows the 360 to use 4x AA with little to none effect on the performance. The PS3's GPU is essentially a nVidia G70 (aka GF 7800 GTX), which in comparison to the 360's ATi card (Which is basically an early version of ATi's up and coming DX10 flagship, like every modern GPU is very inefficient. The PS3 has a more powerful (albeit more complex) CPU.

 

 

BTW the PS3 can give 1080p while 360 can only give 1080i, the PS3 has a better HD format

 

If you want to get technical, the PS3 can only use 1080p if the game runs natively in 1080p. So that means your so called 'True-HD' game console can only render in 1080p if the software is in 1080p. For example, CoD3 runs natively in 720p, so that means it cannot be rendered in any higher resolution on the PS3. The 360 can run in 1080p, thanks to a recent update and because of the fact that is has a scaler chip, which the PS3 lacks. The scaling can upsize any resolution to 1080p.

 

Better HD format? Right. The Xbox360 can always run in True, full HD no matter the game, whereas the PS3 can only do that with the right game.

 

 

but since most consumers are still using lower end HDtvs and some old 480i/p systems(standard, non HD) tvs that won't even make a difference.

 

Well, you just killed your point right there and then, buddy. Avoiding the fact that your argument is completely flawed and false.

 

 

the one only difference that counts is the storage capacity of the game disks, PS3 uses a better storage medium than the 360 for their game titles, because BluRay>DVD any day, the high capacity BluRay disk can hold much more data, and you can have higher resolution buildings because the textures can be more detailed when you have 50Gigabytes of space to use verses a DVD that only contains 9.3 Gigabytes  for its disposal

 

My mouth is big enough to hold a bowling ball, but my mouth is too small to let a Bowling ball into my mouth. Same applies with BlueRay and the PS3's hardware. It's all well and dandy that a BR disk (Dual Layer, mind you) can hold 50GBs, but you can't assume that the PS3 can stream all the data off the disk fast enough. That's just complete bullocks

 

The fact is; DVDs and the 360's optical drive is faster than the PS3's BR and optical drive combo. This is all without taking into account many of the memory bottlenecks the PS3 has, and the fact that no game is going to even get close to 25GBs, let alone 50GBs realisticly. If the developer gets lazy and doesn't compress anything, that may be so, but I very much doubt that the PS3 could even start to handle completely uncompressed graphics. Same applies for the 360, but not to the extend of the PS3 because of some of it's hardware advantages.

 

 

the fact that the 360 doesn't come standard with a Hard Disk Drive(the PS3 does) means that the 360 will either be forced to:

1) have lower quality graphics because Rockstar can't use 10 gigs of space to fill with textures on a DVD, and they can't make it a dual disk game that requires installing the game on the Hard Drive to get that extra space,

 

Bullocks. Space does not mean better graphics. You need the hardware to back it, and the PS3 has a weaker GPU and many other things which will prevent it from having better graphics than Xbox360.

 

 

or 2) have just as good graphics but require the user to have a Hard Drive installed and put the game data on the Hard Drive,

 

It'll have just as good graphics, if not, probably better, and any game on the 360 will not require them to have a hard drive. That's just rubbish

 

 

either way it doesn't mater how well the 360 can process the graphics and textures if Rockstar can't put the best textures on the game disk so the 360 can process them.

 

It works the other way around for the PS3, retard. It doesn't matter how much you can squeeze onto a disk, you need the hardware to back it.

 

 

BTW i have both systems and i play the PS3 more because the graphics are better than the 360s

 

Oh my. You just pulled the trigger of the gun that was pointed right at your head.

 

You want to argue that Resistance Fall of Man looks better than Gears of War? Go right ahead, buddy. I've seen both games in action, Resistance on a 40" LCD HD TV and Gears of War on a small SD CRT. Gears of War won, hands down, no questions asked. You clearly don't have both systems.

 

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Engioc

 

The face of console gaming and gaming in general has changed, more and more games are going cross-platform even initially stated exclusives because it simply makes more sense from a business point of view. Makes more money this way.

This is what I believe in too. This is business and R* will not go from being on both consoles back to an exclusive. They would want to continue to expand their userbase and market, not shrink it by going exclusive again. This is why I still firmly believe we'll see a PC version some time after the console version, it simply makes good business sense to release it on all 3 of these systems cause they know they can make money and all of them should be able to meet the requirements of GTAIV so no reason to not produce a verion for each of them.

 

Also can someone please tell me, I thought one of the big things about the Xbox originally was it was very similar to PC's in the way games needed to be created and so porting games from Xbox to PC was made much easier, is that still the case? If so then surely the fact its being made for X360 means its a relatively simply process to port to PC and make a sh*t load more money with little effort.

 

----

Actually sorry just remembered something extra I wanted to comment on and in a way it relates to this kind of topic. I've read some posts that talked about needing to pay Sony and MS to release games on their consoles, correct, but also a few people believing that R* must pay something to MS to release their game for Windows. No I dont think so, that is not how things work on PCs and Windows. Consoles are great cause they're restricted systems, meaning any game company can make games knowing exactly what it is they are dealing with, no problems with this video card or that one, or this sound card or that one, and one of the ways Sony and MS control these systems is by making companies pay them a fee for releasing their title for their console. Now PC's are not restricted in any way at all, making it more difficult for companies to make games cause of the sheer range of hardware that people might have. Software is not controlled either and this is easy to realise if you simply look around the net at any site offering shareware, freeware, abandonware, etc. Are you honestly going to tell me I need to contact MS if I wanted to create and sell my crappy little shareware gaming calculator (its not a real program, I have no programming ability at all), but the answer is no I dont need to contact MS, and while my program remains a crappy one MS wont even know it exists. Sure R* are well known but like me and my shareware program they dont need to worry about dealing with MS when they want to release a program for PC. The only thing they need to consider when they make a game for PCs is, do they think there are enough people who want to buy it for PC so they make money, is the average gamer who will buy GTA going to be able to meet the minimum requirements of GTA so enough people will buy it for us to make a profit. I think R* can probably answer yes to those questions just as they have done with all the past major releases of GTA.

Edited by Engioc

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Jordan

Sony seems to be gaining a little ground now, most likely due to positive response from different aspects of GDC. I just hope that PS3 price drops before I make my Xbox 360/PS3 decision biggrin.gif

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W1ckeD-

 

Sony seems to be gaining a little ground now, most likely due to positive response from different aspects of GDC.  I just hope that PS3 price drops before I make my Xbox 360/PS3 decision  biggrin.gif

Yeah same here,

I don't know what Console to buy though.. whatsthat.gif

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yourname

i gonna buy a ps3 iv seen some screens and trailers from a couple of other games and it looks SWEET

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TheDude5000

 

i smell Microsoft Fanboyism, developers have had the PS3 system for several months before the Japanese Release which adds even more time to the game development.

 

Here is my Slightly PS3 slanted Opinion:

 

Microsoft Fanboyism? Ah, so I must own Vista and think it's the best thing since sliced bread, and worship my Xbox360? Oh, what systems do I have you may ask? I don't own any of them; Wii, 360 or PS3, and I don't have the intent to buy any system any time soon. PC Gaming for the win. Oh, and I don't own Vista, nor do I want to buy it anytime soon, unless I get it OEM with a new computer.

 

I smell an uninformed soul. Here we go again! Have I missed decompiling posts or what? tounge.gif Slightly slanted? Have you heard of the term bias?

 

Here we go!

 

 

look at the hardware specs and the differences between the 360 and the PS3, the only major differences are optical disk technology and the graphics technology, btw Side by Side the 360 and the PS3 are nearly identical in GPU power

 

The Xbox360 has a much more powerful GPU, everything considered. More pipelines (24 = PS3 v 48 = 360) and a very efficient architecture (Which allows the 360 to use 4x AA with little to none effect on the performance. The PS3's GPU is essentially a nVidia G70 (aka GF 7800 GTX), which in comparison to the 360's ATi card (Which is basically an early version of ATi's up and coming DX10 flagship, like every modern GPU is very inefficient. The PS3 has a more powerful (albeit more complex) CPU.

 

 

BTW the PS3 can give 1080p while 360 can only give 1080i, the PS3 has a better HD format

 

If you want to get technical, the PS3 can only use 1080p if the game runs natively in 1080p. So that means your so called 'True-HD' game console can only render in 1080p if the software is in 1080p. For example, CoD3 runs natively in 720p, so that means it cannot be rendered in any higher resolution on the PS3. The 360 can run in 1080p, thanks to a recent update and because of the fact that is has a scaler chip, which the PS3 lacks. The scaling can upsize any resolution to 1080p.

 

Better HD format? Right. The Xbox360 can always run in True, full HD no matter the game, whereas the PS3 can only do that with the right game.

 

 

but since most consumers are still using lower end HDtvs and some old 480i/p systems(standard, non HD) tvs that won't even make a difference.

 

Well, you just killed your point right there and then, buddy. Avoiding the fact that your argument is completely flawed and false.

 

 

the one only difference that counts is the storage capacity of the game disks, PS3 uses a better storage medium than the 360 for their game titles, because BluRay>DVD any day, the high capacity BluRay disk can hold much more data, and you can have higher resolution buildings because the textures can be more detailed when you have 50Gigabytes of space to use verses a DVD that only contains 9.3 Gigabytes  for its disposal

 

My mouth is big enough to hold a bowling ball, but my mouth is too small to let a Bowling ball into my mouth. Same applies with BlueRay and the PS3's hardware. It's all well and dandy that a BR disk (Dual Layer, mind you) can hold 50GBs, but you can't assume that the PS3 can stream all the data off the disk fast enough. That's just complete bullocks

 

The fact is; DVDs and the 360's optical drive is faster than the PS3's BR and optical drive combo. This is all without taking into account many of the memory bottlenecks the PS3 has, and the fact that no game is going to even get close to 25GBs, let alone 50GBs realisticly. If the developer gets lazy and doesn't compress anything, that may be so, but I very much doubt that the PS3 could even start to handle completely uncompressed graphics. Same applies for the 360, but not to the extend of the PS3 because of some of it's hardware advantages.

 

 

the fact that the 360 doesn't come standard with a Hard Disk Drive(the PS3 does) means that the 360 will either be forced to:

1) have lower quality graphics because Rockstar can't use 10 gigs of space to fill with textures on a DVD, and they can't make it a dual disk game that requires installing the game on the Hard Drive to get that extra space,

 

Bullocks. Space does not mean better graphics. You need the hardware to back it, and the PS3 has a weaker GPU and many other things which will prevent it from having better graphics than Xbox360.

 

 

or 2) have just as good graphics but require the user to have a Hard Drive installed and put the game data on the Hard Drive,

 

It'll have just as good graphics, if not, probably better, and any game on the 360 will not require them to have a hard drive. That's just rubbish

 

 

either way it doesn't mater how well the 360 can process the graphics and textures if Rockstar can't put the best textures on the game disk so the 360 can process them.

 

It works the other way around for the PS3, retard. It doesn't matter how much you can squeeze onto a disk, you need the hardware to back it.

 

 

BTW i have both systems and i play the PS3 more because the graphics are better than the 360s

 

Oh my. You just pulled the trigger of the gun that was pointed right at your head.

 

You want to argue that Resistance Fall of Man looks better than Gears of War? Go right ahead, buddy. I've seen both games in action, Resistance on a 40" LCD HD TV and Gears of War on a small SD CRT. Gears of War won, hands down, no questions asked. You clearly don't have both systems.

Cran., I must thank you for feeding the fanboy a huge plate of ownage.

 

Someone should really make a pinned topic clearing up the 360/PS3 confusion/retardation.

 

@Jordan: If you want a console with games that are actually worth buying so far, the 360 is the console for you.

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Jordan

Yeah, I know the Xbox 360 has the edge right now with more titles and the established online service. I probably will get a 360, but I will still wait until July probably.

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