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MadeInThe80s

I'm sorry but how can people not believe in God?

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MadeInThe80s

We are miracles of creation ourselves. If you think about it deep and hard enough, how the f*ck are we even possible? How am I writing this, right now, through this conscious? It blows my mind. We are living examples of God's work yet people refuse to believe in a "creator" and that we were formed from molecules over billions of years. Even if that were true, who created the matter which formed us today? Believing in evolution seems to me the most ludicrous way of how man was created. God exists OUT of everything, if evolution were true, GOD created it. There's no other way. I can't stand people who think we were products of chance, how absurd... Only a fool would say that and truly believe it. God exists, that I know is the truth.

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uNi

It's called an opinion and anyone has the right to own one.

 

I do think religion is a great subject of discussion, but some people can't keep some stuff aside from

the conversation and ending moving it to other subjects.

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anuj

That is the most ridiculous argument I have ever seen anywhere and I swear to God if I had 10 to 15 years to point out what was wrong with your post then my post would become a world-famous textbook in "shut-the-f*ck-up-ology".

 

But let's try.

 

 

How am I writing this, right now, through this conscious?

 

First, I'm going to start you off with Everyone Poops. Then I'm going to give you progressively more intellectual textbooks until we finally arrive at Biology for Dummies. Do you think your conscious exists because some magical essence somewhere wills it to exist?

 

 

It blows my mind.

 

Something tells me that that isn't an accomplishment.

 

 

We are living examples of God's work yet people refuse to believe in a "creator" and that we were formed from molecules over billions of years.

 

What? How are we living examples of "God's Work" just because our respiratory system is more complicated than you can wrap your mind around? Science has progressed so far over the past five hundred years, and yet people refuse to believe in the idea that maybe we're not the product of an all-powerful being. Just as much as you can prove the existence of God, I can prove the absense of him. Only, I've got a bit of an upper hand because I've never as much as seen God. Could you be a sport and give me a picture of you and him smiling?

 

 

Believing in evolution seems to me the most ludicrous way of how man was created.

 

Hahahaha, it's at this point I realized you were joking and I just fell for the troll HARD.

 

 

God exists OUT of everything, if evolution were true, GOD created it. There's no other way.

 

Nevermind.

 

 

I can't stand people who think we were products of chance, how absurd... Only a fool would say that and truly believe it. God exists, that I know is the truth.

 

Oh, sh*t, son. I didn't realize your concept of the truth was made even more valid because you refuse to acknowledge that it's possible that maybe we ARE just molecules floating around on a rock that wasn't intelligently designed.

 

I predict this topic is going to be AWESOME to THA MAX, that I know is the truth.

 

 

 

 

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Kaj.

Look, buddy, I know that this forum is the Debates and Discussion forum, but what you've just posted is going to lead to a lot of bitching and arguing.

 

But really, let people believe what they want, there's no need to call them 'fools' because they don't believe in yours, or any other 'god'.

 

Now I'm not ragging on religion, because people are free to believe whatever they want. People like you though, that think their own personal 'god' is the one creator of all things, and then proceed to insult others who choose not to believe in that 'god', truly make me wish that there was a god, so that he could kick you in the ass for being an asshole.

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MadeInThe80s

Anuj, I feel you have no spirituality whatsoever.

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MadeInThe80s
Look, buddy, I know that this forum is the Debates and Discussion forum, but what you've just posted is going to lead to a lot of bitching and arguing.

 

But really, let people believe what they want, there's no need to call them 'fools' because they don't believe in yours, or any other 'god'.

 

Now I'm not ragging on religion, because people are free to believe whatever they want. People like you though, that think their own personal 'god' is the one creator of all things, and then proceed to insult others who choose not to believe in that 'god', truly make me wish that there was a god, so that he could kick you in the ass for being an asshole.

If I truly believed in something and knew it was the truth deep down in my soul, why would I hold the truth back from people? Because it is a minor annoyance to them? Hell no. I believe strongly that there is a creator and believe that is the only answer.

 

The hypocrisy I see among atheists is funny since most atheists "bash" bible-bashers yet believe what they think/feel is true and get on us for being "arrogant".

 

Dude, yo?

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anuj
Anuj, I feel you have no spirituality whatsoever.

Actually, I'm a lady loving God fearing man of the people. I'm a Hindu and am deeply involved in both the religious and social aspects of my particular community. I can put personal feelings aside for the sake of argument, though.

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MadeInThe80s
Anuj, I feel you have no spirituality whatsoever.

Actually, I'm a lady loving God fearing man of the people. I'm a Hindu and am deeply involved in both the religious and social aspects of my particular community. I can put personal feelings aside for the sake of argument, though.

God fearing? But how? When you just ridiculed the idea of a God in your first post? I feel your belief is as shallow as a kiddies pool.

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Kaj.
Anuj, I feel you have no spirituality whatsoever.

Actually, I'm a lady loving God fearing man of the people. I'm a Hindu and am deeply involved in both the religious and social aspects of my particular community. I can put personal feelings aside for the sake of argument, though.

God fearing? But how? When you just ridiculed the idea of a God in your first post? I feel your belief is as shallow as a kiddies pool.

Look at the bold text. Use that soft cushy thing between your ears that 'god gave you'.

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Tom Toole

Wow, a hindu! India is cool and spiritual of course, not like christianity!

 

While I agree with the sentiment of "how can people not believe in God?", I don't quite believe in god yet myself, I don't think. I guess that puts me into self-contradiction.

 

What impresses me most though is the argument that god is either "false but useful or true but trivial" which puts religion to it's followers rather paradoxically as both true and false, and both useful and trivial. I mean, I don't believe in science either though. I am happy to think of my next meal - sometimes as far as next week. But i guess it is useful/trivial too.

 

You always have to have something bigger than you watching out for you I guess, for some it's fate/god, for others it's the American Legal System.

 

To each his own seems an okay rule, but obviously beside the point - it goes against debate in the first place, like anarchists congregating, or criminals setting up a court. I mean, to each his own, to a certain extent, which will never be discoved if we follow the right path.

 

 

Actually, I'm a lady loving God fearing man of the people. I'm a Hindu and am deeply involved in both the religious and social aspects of my particular community.

Awesome! ...I guess... - do you find it to be ghettoish? favors and corruption and nosy family members? do you find your spirit lifted by the ceremonies? have you visited pushkar?

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Craig Kostelecky

I don't believe in god for the same reason that I don't believe in magic. Just because we cannot explain something scientifically, doesn't mean that a god created it. Besides, if the whole universe had to be created by a god, then who or what created that god?

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K^2

MadeInThe80's, have you spent many years studying Physics? Biology? Ecology? Neuro-science? Genetics? Artificial Intelligence? There are many brilliant people who have dedicated their lives to their subject. Their understanding of human consciousness, biology, evolution, and the world surrounding us is rather deep. These people can look at the world and see how it could have become without a need for a creator. You have not studied such subjects in such depths. Is it a surprise that you do not understand how it works? Not really. If you see people not believing in God, before saying how they not see something, consider the possibility that you are the one who doesn't see something.

 

My own field is Physics, and I can talk about things like space-time and particle physics at much greater depth than I can about things related to biology. Nevertheless, I do know a thing or two about genetics and evolution. What you seem to fail to realize is that evolution is not a chance thing. It's a predictable process. Yes, it works in part due to random mutations, but that doesn't make the whole process random. Just as anuj pointed out, there are books on the matter. If you are interested, read them. Trying to paraphrase them in a few paragraphs is a bit difficult. But simply because you don't understand it, don't attribute it to higher powers.

 

Actually, I'm a lady loving God fearing man of the people.

This sentence could use another comma. First time I read it, it came out that you are a lady who loves god and is afraid of the "man of the people", whoever he is.

Edited by K^2

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SWEETSAPRIK

 

God fearing? But how? When you just ridiculed the idea of a God in your first post? I feel your belief is as shallow as a kiddies pool.

If you were capable of reading at anything above a third grade level you'd have picked up on the fact that calling out your argument for being sh*t (that is, lacking in every respect) does not equate to "ridiculing the idea of god."

 

I personally have seen no conclusive proof that any deity does or does not exist. As such I find fault in anyone who insists that I should take their word for it without that proof. I have no problem with anyone believing anything, as long as they don't expect me to alter my life so that it better fits their self-important beliefs.

 

Like how your first post could be summarized as saying "I believe in god because." Because you don't understand/believe in molecules, or evolution, I'm supposed to feel bad that I don't believe in your specific invisible man in the sky? Again, you're welcome to think what you will. I might not consider faith to be a weakness, but I do find your argument to be weak.

 

I refer you to this topic, or even better, this topic, both already in progress. At least if you add sh*tty posts to a topic with some decent ones your ignorance might not stand out quite as much.

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King Travis

i do not believe in god. one reason i do not is because there is no proof. how come the bible never talks about having dinosaures on "noa's ark?" we americans "scientists" have proof of them and that they are real. appearently you havent read the bible because it says god magicaly created people out of sand or crap and none evolved whatsthat.gif also why are you on a website dedicated to games rated m for mature and games that focus on crimes and killing if its agenst the bible? what do you exactly believe god is? a magical unicorn that died and is watching over us? die.gif and if GOD created everything who created him? you cant prove either and most credited scientists believe in evelution which can NOT be explained by god. god exists OUT of everything. is that something u heard from bible school? explain this to me. are there parts of him in my fingers as im typing? Until just a couple of hundred years ago, most people thought that a god or gods controlled everything. Why did the wind blow? Why was there lightning and thunder? Why did the sun, moon, and stars apparently go around the Earth? Why did someone get sick and die? Why did anything happen? Well, obviously, God did it. If a person doesn’t know how something works or why something happened, they can say, “God did it.” This is known as the “god of the gaps,” or the “argument from ignorance,” and it is at the heart of the conflict between science and religion.The idea of a god is also an easy answer to questions about the world around us. Where did the universe come from? God created it. Where did life come from? God created it, too. Where did humans come from? God created us, and in his own image, to boot. The beginning of the universe — of all the matter and energy in it and even of time itself — is called the Big Bang. The science of quantum mechanics is only a century old, and already we've been able to get extremely close to understanding the beginning of the universe — with no god needed. How close can we get? Approximately a billionth of a billionth of a billionth of a billionth of a second after the Big Bang. The Big Bang theory is supported by extensive data. The four most prominent facts are:

 

I will only deal here with brief overviews of paleontology, vestigial organs, natural selection, and genetics.

The history of life on Earth is in its fossils, and we have extensive fossils showing how species have come and gone over the last several hundred million years. Here are just a few examples: Trilobites appeared over 500 million years ago and existed for 300 million years (with over 15,000 described species). About 375 million years ago, land animals were evolving from fish. [see Fossil Called Missing Link From Sea to Land Animals.] Dinosaurs (with an estimated 200,000 species) lived 251 to 65.5 million years ago. Horses are descended from the cat-sized Eohippus of 50 to 60 million years ago. Whales are descended from land animals of 52 million years ago. In fact, some whales still have vestigial legs and pelvic bones. Humans are descended from a long line of hominids, over at least 4.4 million years.

 

The dating methods for determining the ages of fossils and rocks are well-established. They usually depend on the radioactive decay of different isotopes of elements, and can be used on objects that are hundreds to billions of years old. For an in-depth explanation, see Accuracy of Fossils and Dating Methods.

 

The evidence for evolution of life is overwhelming and conclusive. This evidence is not just in the fossils, but also in the body parts and genes of almost every living thing. If you have any doubts, take a little time to learn the concepts of evolution, then spend a few hours in any natural history museum or public library. If your mind is at all open, you will see the evidence. Remember, ignorance of how evolution works is no argument against it. The basic Theory of Evolution is completely solid, and will continue to be updated as we learn more about the complex history of life.

 

 

The red shift of almost all galaxies — getting greater as their distance increases.

- This shows that the galaxies are flying away from each other — at greater speeds at greater distances.

The cosmic microwave background radiation.

- This is a remnant of the radiation from the Big Bang, and has cooled over time to the exact temperature predicted.

The proportions of the lightest elements and isotopes.

- This helps show that the calculations for nuclear interactions immediately following the Big Bang are correct.

The changes in galaxies as we look further away (and thus back in time), with distant galaxies more primitive.

- This shows some of the changes in the universe since the Big Bang, and confirms the deep time of the universe. The next problem of the first cause argument is the assumption that an infinite chain of events is impossible. Many cosmologists have proposed that our universe could be part of a much larger, super and perhaps eternal meta-universe; we certainly don’t know for sure, and may never know. However, this meta-universe would allow infinite chains of events.

 

Another problem comes from the definition of God as perfect and unchanging. If these qualities were true, then why would God need a universe and how could God change from not needing a universe to needing one?

 

The last problem with the first cause argument lies in its assumption that this eternal god exists, something that it is trying to prove. This is known as begging the question. Even a child can ask, “If God created the universe, then who created God?” If the answer is that God is uncaused, then the same answer could certainly be applied to the existence of the universe — that it is uncaused. Besides, which god are we talking about? People using the first cause argument always make the assumption that their god did the creating. Muslims think that Allah created the universe. Hindus think that Brahma did it. Christians and Jews think that Yahweh did it. Most religions have a story of how their god created the universe. The idea of a god as creator of the universe makes for a good tale, but it obviously tells us little about the characteristics of that god. What they are doing is explaining one mystery with a bigger mystery, and that is fallacious logic.

 

ID is scientifically flawed because it violates the ground rules of science by allowing supernatural (meaning outside of nature) causation.

 

ID is logically flawed in two ways. The first logical flaw in ID is that it's based on a lack of knowledge — explaining gaps in knowledge by invoking the magic of an unknown (perhaps supernatural) being. Like all “god of the gaps” arguments, ID is not falsifiable, can’t even be tested, and says nothing about the moral qualities of this unknown being, god, or gods. The second logical flaw is in the assumption it makes that, because something is supposedly very highly unlikely, something else must have designed it. What ID proponents blatantly ignore, because they take the existence of their god as a given, is the fact that this unknown designer must be even more complex, and thus less probable, than what ID was invoked to explain.

 

ID is historically flawed because science has shown excellent progress in explaining the world around us, and there is nothing to show that evolutionary biology should be abandoned simply because it has not yet explained the origins of every single process of life. Because biochemical processes don’t leave behind fossils, it’s not as easy to explain their origins as it is for bone structures that do fossilize. However, evolutionary biologists are making excellent progress in understanding the origins and processes of the biochemistry of life.

 

Proponents of ID have also created the idea of irreducible complexity, which is central to ID. It states that many processes of life are too complex and irreducible to have evolved; therefore a designer must have created them. This complexity comes from many interrelated parts or processes, which supposedly are useless without all the other parts or processes. This is just another “god of the gaps” and it also falls apart under close examination.

 

“What good is half an eye?” they ask. The answer is simple. Any amount of vision is better than none, and any change that improves vision probably improves survivability. Starting with a basic light-sensing cell, eyes have evolved thru natural selection — one small step at a time. Richard Dawkins has an excellent explanation of this (and much more) in his book Climbing Mount Improbable.

 

An icon of the irreducible complexity concept is the bacterial flagellum, with its many similarities to an electric motor — and about 30 protein components required to produce a working biological function. Unfortunately for the ID movement, research has demolished the flagellum's status as an example of irreducible complexity. Some bacteria use what is known as type III secretory system (TTSS) to allow them to inject proteins directly into the cytoplasm of a host cell. TTSS has a strong likeness in structure to the flagellum, and uses about 15 to 20 of the same proteins. This shows that the flagellum is not irreducibly complex, because a functioning structure (albeit with a different function) can be made with 10 to 15 fewer proteins. A detailed analysis can be found in The Flagellum Unspun: The Collapse of "Irreducible Complexity".

 

Intelligent Design is simply not science; it's religion dressed up to look like science to the uninformed. It is mystical pseudoscience.

 

I'd like to address a common statement made by creationists — that scientists have supposedly never actually witnessed evolution, so evolution either: a) isn't real science, or b) hasn't happened. First, this is a gross mischaracterization of science. There are many processes that scientists can understand without directly witnessing them, such as much of geology or fusion at the cores of stars. Second, this statement ignores the fact that evolution usually takes thousands or millions of years. It's like looking a tree and saying that it is not growing because you can't see any growth in a day. Third, scientists have actually witnessed the rapid evolution of new species — the apple moth from the hawthorn moth, a new species of polychaetes fish, and many more.

 

 

 

 

The Theory of Evolution

Life is a process — not a design. It requires an explanation — not an intelligent designer. This explanation is the fact and theory of evolution. “Evolution” simply means change over time. It’s a fact that enormous changes to life on Earth have occurred. The 3.5 billion year fossil record is clear and unambiguous on this. The Theory of Evolution explains the processes that caused these changes.

There are at least nine areas of study and empirical data supporting the Theory of Evolution. They are:

 

 

Paleontology (fossils)

Distribution of Animals and Plants

Comparative Anatomy

Embryology

Vestigial Organs

Natural Selection

Sexual Selection

Genetics

Molecular Biology

 

Every cell in our bodies contains the evidence of our evolutionary origins. The basic process of life on Earth is so common that we share about 50% of our genes with carrots, and more than 98% of our genes with chimpanzees. If fact, humans are genetically closer to chimps than mice are to rats. Here are some useful biological facts:

 

We get an exact copy of the mitochondria in each cell from our mother, almost every time.

Every male gets an exact copy of his Y chromosome from his father, almost every time.

Both mitochondria and Y chromosomes slowly mutate over time at known rates.

 

did u drop out of school or are u just slow

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/WhyAtheism.htm

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King Travis

somebody lock this it makes no sence to waste space on an already s***** server with this c*** mad.gifanuj_cop.gif

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MadeInThe80s

God is eternal, he is beyond time, space, and matter - he exists out of all "our" rules and sh*t. It's hard to fathom but he always was and always will be.

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Canofceleri

I cannot believe in God because there's absolutely no proof for any existence of one. As Dawkins so eloquently puts it (and as South Park as picked up on), you might as well believe in the flying spaghetti monster.

 

You might say, what created the matterblahblah blah? But if everything needs a first cause then who created God? It's easier to assume that everything came about from small changes over time than a complex being having to have been there first.

 

You think these things because you know nothing about science or good logic and have been brought up in an ignorant and religious society. You need to read a lot of books, my friend.

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MadeInThe80s

I can say the same to you and say you know nothing about being in touch with your inner spirit and soul and refuse to let that guide you to the answers of truth, my friend. See your hypocrisy? The proof of God relies on one thing - faith. If you don't have that then there's no way for you to lift the curtains from your eyes and see what is (I believe is) the truth.

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Tom Toole

I think religion debates are lively because they are things people learn not to question.

 

I find the question of god to be rather unimportant to the church - "If god didn't exist" churches would still exist.

 

Scientists are human, so are believers in religion and nationalists.

 

[all] make mistakes, their humanity is more to blame for it than their banner.

 

There's no right if there is no wrong.

Edited by Tom Toole

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Stuch
The proof of God relies on one thing - faith.

Well, there we go. That explains it all.

 

You say we are the fools for having took in many facts, observed and questioned religion(because many of us grew up in religious families, myself included) before reaching an informed decision on the (non)existance of a devine creator. Yet you just take the first thing you are told and run with it?

 

 

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Greene

I don't like people like you.

You've got a belief and you insist on pushing it on others. I'm Roman Catholic and I have a very strong belief in God but I really hate people who try to "convert" other people to their way of thinking. If someone doesn't share your beliefs then it's none of your goddamn business. Stick to your own beliefs and let other people have theirs. It's f*cking ridiculous.

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Tom Toole

This is serious stuff we are talking about - isn't it?

I think that's part of the point of talking about god - it's stuff that is very powerful, very heart to heart kind of stuff.

Which get's people pissed off, emotional, and bad at debate.

 

I find the argument that progress includes the end of the belief in god interesting.

 

The Dalai Llama is someone leftists (as opposed to fundamentalist Republicans) like, he sees contradictions between his religion and science, but he accepts both. There is usefulness to both, especially since he is both the leader of a religion and of a people.

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Craig Kostelecky
I don't like people like you.

You've got a belief and you insist on pushing it on others. I'm Roman Catholic and I have a very strong belief in God but I really hate people who try to "convert" other people to their way of thinking. If someone doesn't share your beliefs then it's none of your goddamn business. Stick to your own beliefs and let other people have theirs. It's f*cking ridiculous.

You're not a very good Roman Catholic if you're breaking one of the ten commandments, are you?

 

"You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain" (Deuteronomy 5:11)

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Gouveia

Well, as everybody states, it's only an opinion. I don't believe on all of those miracles and that God had those supernatural powers, you know what I'm talking about right? So, I believe in Jesus and in Virgin Mary. Both are my family's idols. That's MY point of view.

 

And yes Greene, if you're a good catholic, accept all of those comandments and follow them(the opposite from me).

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K^2
God is eternal, he is beyond time, space, and matter - he exists out of all "our" rules and sh*t. It's hard to fathom but he always was and always will be.

Universe is eternal, it is beyond time, space, and matter - it exists out of all "our" rules and sh*t. It's hard to fathom but it always was and always will be.

 

It's fun to make stuff like that up when you don't have to argument it at all, isn't it?

 

I can say the same to you and say you know nothing about being in touch with your inner spirit and soul and refuse to let that guide you to the answers of truth, my friend. See your hypocrisy?

Ah, now we're getting somewhere. Now it at least resembles a philosophical argument. So let us dissect this.

 

1) We have two options. We can either follow our "inner voice" and rely on it to tell us the truth. That is the spiritual way. We can also trust our vision and hearing, and try to make conclusions from there. That is the scientific way. We have no real proof that either one is telling us the truth.

 

2) First we want to determine if we, perhaps, should use the combination of the two. The problem with that is that there have been contradictions in the past, so it doesn't work all that well. Based on that, we decide that we have to chose one.

 

3) I propose the following test. Go outside, and use your vision and hearing to guide you. Next, close your eyes, plug your ears, and use your inner voice to guide you. If you survive the experience, make conclusions on which one you can trust.

 

4) Based on the test (hopefully, you know the outcome without actually performing it), you will be able to conclude that relying on your vision is a good idea. We can't tell if observations tell us "the truth", but they allow us to construct simple models of the world, allowing us to predict things that might harm us, like, seeing an approaching truck tells you that you need to get out of the way.

 

5) Observations have told us that a Human brain is extremely complex and often unreliable system. It glitches. A lot. A Human, even a completely sane one, might experience sudden outbursts of emotion, and occasionally even hear and see things that are not there. However, a sane Human learns how to tell these "glitches" apart from useful information. It is easy, therefore, to interpret your inner voice, a "guiding spirit", or whatever, as glitch in your brain. There is no way to prove it one way or another, but do keep in mind that the sense we have proved to be more reliable suggests it as an alternative.

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Mercie

 

I can say the same to you and say you know nothing about being in touch with your inner spirit and soul and refuse to let that guide you to the answers of truth, my friend.  See your hypocrisy? The proof of God relies on one thing - faith. If you don't have that then there's no way for you to lift the curtains from your eyes and see what is (I believe is) the truth.

 

Hypocracy? I would hardly call such a thing hypocracy, merely a trap for either side of the argument.

 

If a person believes something, they will see it. I, however, like the more factual basis of seeing something before I believe it. I know computers are complex machines. I know they can react to our input and that of the environment. I also know that technology has no bounds. So, how are we so different than machines other than the idea of organic/inorganic cells? The whole human body has been charted sans parts of the brain, and all of it thus far is no different that a PC, except our 'Plug and Play' abilities don't include the latest Bluetooth Technology.

 

Its funny. People will as what created people, or what created the universe and then use that as proof that god must exist. What created god we ask? God has always existed they say. Then why the hell can't the universe have always existed?

 

The very people that preach eternal life condemn everything material to a beginning and an end. I believe the components of my poptart have been around forever, whether in the same chemical construction or not, and that they will continue to exist, as has everything else material.

 

Looking back at religion, one can witness how the leaders used it as a ploy to gain in their social areas. Remember Sumeria? The first civilization with records? They were inbetween the Tigris and Euphrates rivers relying only on crops to live. Without much research science, they had many unanswered questions such as 'why do the rivers flood?' and 'why is it too dry here?' Their answers were no where to be found because meterology hadn't hit the planet yet. Instead, a nobody claimed that a supreme being was pissed and that people must give money and sacrifice for said things to be better. Were they better? No. Sumeria was burned to the ground later.

 

The whole 'god is pissed' idea has blown over. But still, people refuse to beleive in any of the other stretches of religion. Heaven or Hell? Is god still pissed?

 

That's not to say religion is a bad thing, just a pile of shoddy answers to questions for which we have found most facts for. Sure, people do good with it (90% of history aside) and seem to beleive.

 

I won't believe it until I see it. Right now the burden of proof lies on the church. So tell me, what facts have you seen that would help sway me. I dont care what you believe, give us facts.

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Tom Toole

 

3) I propose the following test. Go outside, and use your vision and hearing to guide you. Next, close your eyes, plug your ears, and use your inner voice to guide you. If you survive the experience, make conclusions on which one you can trust.

A strange experiment, I think it would be useful to first know where you want to go. And if you don't survive the experience, I guess you should trust K^2?

 

 

Its funny. People will as what created people, or what created the universe and then use that as proof that god must exist. What created god we ask? God has always existed they say. Then why the hell can't the universe have always existed?

What created your question? you can follow a chain of events all the way back - back to your birth, to your mother's birth, to the first scientist. To the beginning of the question.

 

Funny? Ironic? Contradictory?

 

I don't think people who never heard of "God" question his existence. They don't question the existence of "Santa Claus" either if they never heard of him.

--Why don't we argue about the (non)existence of true love? It seems a somewhat similar argument from the both points of view.

 

Is the USA good? Should you protect the american way of life? The Christian way of life?

 

I think american is as unspecific as christian.

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Otter

I think the argument here is getting lost in the, eh, argument.

 

Madeinthe80's, I don't believe in God because he's never made the effort. It's the same reason I don't believe in jackelopes. You'd see one once in a while. And we're not talking about some elusive beast like the coelecanth here - we're talking about the creator of everything. It's just not in his character to "lay low".

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Kippers

Who's to say that the bible isn't some fictitious book written all those years ago by a few guys that just got out of hand and everyone started believing it?

 

Creation of the world/universe? The universe expanded, stopped, started coming in on itself, everything met, went boom! and the world and other planets are just giant pieces of debris. to me that's much more believable than someone called God creating everything within 7 days?

 

Don't want to force any of my own opinions/theories/suggestions onto anyone so if it sounded forcefully then my bad.

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SeaNorris.
God never created us, one thing did... Evolution. I think it's pretty hard to believe that God created us all, because how? How did he do it? Use tools? I do not think so.

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