Quantcast
Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
    1. Welcome to GTAForums!

    1. Red Dead Redemption 2

      1. PC
      2. Gameplay
      3. Missions
      4. Help & Support
    2. Red Dead Online

      1. Gameplay
      2. Find Lobbies & Outlaws
      3. Help & Support
      4. Frontier Pursuits
    1. Crews & Posses

      1. Recruitment
    2. Events

    1. GTA Online

      1. DLC
      2. Find Lobbies & Players
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Vehicles
      5. Content Creator
      6. Help & Support
      7. The Diamond Casino Heist
    2. Grand Theft Auto Series

    3. GTA 6

    4. GTA V

      1. PC
      2. Guides & Strategies
      3. Help & Support
    5. GTA IV

      1. Episodes from Liberty City
      2. Multiplayer
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Help & Support
      5. GTA IV Mods
    6. GTA Chinatown Wars

    7. GTA Vice City Stories

    8. GTA Liberty City Stories

    9. GTA San Andreas

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA SA Mods
    10. GTA Vice City

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA VC Mods
    11. GTA III

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA III Mods
    12. Top Down Games

      1. GTA Advance
      2. GTA 2
      3. GTA
    13. Wiki

      1. Merchandising
    1. GTA Modding

      1. GTA V
      2. GTA IV
      3. GTA III, VC & SA
      4. Tutorials
    2. Mod Showroom

      1. Scripts & Plugins
      2. Maps
      3. Total Conversions
      4. Vehicles
      5. Textures
      6. Characters
      7. Tools
      8. Other
      9. Workshop
    3. Featured Mods

      1. DYOM
      2. OpenIV
      3. GTA: Underground
      4. GTA: Liberty City
      5. GTA: State of Liberty
    1. Red Dead Redemption

    2. Rockstar Games

    1. Off-Topic

      1. General Chat
      2. Gaming
      3. Technology
      4. Programming
      5. Movies & TV
      6. Music
      7. Sports
      8. Vehicles
    2. Expression

      1. Graphics / Visual Arts
      2. GFX Requests & Tutorials
      3. Writers' Discussion
      4. Debates & Discussion
    1. News

    2. Forum Support

    3. Site Suggestions

Sign in to follow this  
Tom Toole

Subjective vs. Objective

Recommended Posts

Tom Toole

Subjective relates to the pathos - the world of feelings. If something is pleasant then it is good. If something is unpleasant it is bad.

 

Objective relates to the logos - the world of thought. If something is drawn from logical and scientific data then it is true.

 

Are these definitions sufficient? please add to them, modify them, as you see fit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Otter

As far as Objectivity, thought is probably the wrong word. Dispassionate logic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
K^2

I think it would be better to say that subjective is based on beliefs rather than just feelings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tom Toole

Subjective:

1 beliefs

2 feelings

3 all that is not objective

 

Objective:

1 disspassionate logic

2 Scientific

3 What is agreed upon by all parties to be the foundation of knowledge

4 Mathematics

5 Grammatical

6 Structural

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Canofceleri

It's simple, subjectivity is perception and objectivity is truth. (P) Taxi Driver is Martin Scorsese's best film. (O) Taxi Driver was a film directed by Martin Scorsese.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tom Toole
It's simple, subjectivity is perception and objectivity is truth. (P) Taxi Driver is Martin Scorsese's best film. (O) Taxi Driver was a film directed by Martin Scorsese.

but isn't truth what is perceived? As I understand it, "Taxi Driver was a film directed by martin Scorsese" counts as history.

 

Subjective

1 beliefs

2 feelings

3 perception

4 judgements of quality

5 Opinion

 

Objective:

1 disspassionate logic

2 Scientific

3 What is agreed upon by all parties to be the foundation of knowledge

4 Mathematics

5 Grammatical

6 Structural

7 History

8 True

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Canofceleri

I'd say you pinned it, Tom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
spoof

I would posit that perhaps only no. 4 is truly objective from the “objective” list. Discuss monocle.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tom Toole

Spoof, it is interesting that you would say that.

I believe Bertrand russel proved that mathematics is merely simbolic logic.

Philosophy today seems very mathematical.

 

Didn't Kant say something about the objective always being perceived through experience and thus through the subjective?

 

Subjective: Personal Truth including beliefs, feelings, perceptions, judgements of quality, Opinions

 

Objective: Universal Truth including mathematics, logic

 

Perhaps it could be said that science is between completely objective and completely subjective? because it requires human perception?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
spoof

Perhaps, I should have drawn more attention to the inverted commas surrounding the term objective wink.gif

 

Objective:

1 disspassionate logic

2 Scientific

3 What is agreed upon by all parties to be the foundation of knowledge

4 Mathematics

5 Grammatical

6 Structural

 

1 – I would posit there is no such thing, given we are merely human.

2 – Scientific is an extremely ambiguous term at best

3 – Epistemology, once again- we are merely human

4- The closest thing to a best guess

5 – Ever changing (unfortunately)

6 – See number 5.

 

 

Hence my comment pertaining to No.4.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Otter

Well, to define is inherently subjective anyhow, isn't it? wink.gif

 

I stick by dispassionate logic. It may not be possible, but by golly, objectivity isn't possible. Of course, I'm being incredibly subjective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
spoof

 

Well, to define is inherently subjective anyhow, isn't it? wink.gif

 

I stick by dispassionate logic. It may not be possible, but by golly, objectivity isn't possible.  Of course, I'm being incredibly subjective.

Indeed, but there’s not really much else we can do, is there? confused.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Otter
Well, to define is inherently subjective anyhow, isn't it? wink.gif

 

I stick by dispassionate logic. It may not be possible, but by golly, objectivity isn't possible.  Of course, I'm being incredibly subjective.

Indeed, but there’s not really much else we can do, is there? confused.gif

From an objective point of view? blush.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
spoof

From a completely subjective POV blush.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tom Toole
Objective:

1 disspassionate logic

1 – I would posit there is no such thing, given we are merely human.

 

4 Mathematics

4- The closest thing to a best guess

 

5 Grammatical

5 – Ever changing (unfortunately)

 

Emotions are strangely absent from the current definitions, yet they seem to me the most important thing about subjective points of view - a person without emotions is not a person - is it?

 

In regards to the existence disspassionate logic, I think autistics or computers would have dispassionate logic, furthermore one could have disspassionate logic in certain areas and not others, no?

 

Mathematics? If mathematics is symbolic logic, and logic can be spoken in another language, then it it is a merely grammar - with many grammatical structures ruling it's usage.

 

 

 

Subjective: POV is of being subjected to or affected emotionally by "topic".

Examples: A Christian speaking of Christianity. An African American speaking of racism. A soldier speaking of his commanding officer.

 

Objective: POV is not subjected to or affected (emotionally) by "topic"

Examples: Technical manual on using keyboard. Wikipedia article on electrons. Google results report.

 

 

I think it must be the case that one can be objective about subjective matters, just as one can be subjective about objective matters. You can love your technical manual on using a keyboard and make it into a religion. You can make statistics on the number of complaints filed against a company for bad service.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
spoof

 

Objective:

1 disspassionate logic

1 – I would posit there is no such thing, given we are merely human.

 

4 Mathematics

4- The closest thing to a best guess

 

5 Grammatical

5 – Ever changing (unfortunately)

 

Emotions are strangely absent from the current definitions, yet they seem to me the most important thing about subjective points of view - a person without emotions is not a person - is it?

 

My comments were based on your previous suggested notions of objectivity, and obviously (given they pertained to objectivity) , emotion was less than included in that which you quoted. Rational (objective) decision making and emotive decision making tend to be mutually exclusive, for the most part.

 

 

Mathematics? If mathematics is symbolic logic, and logic can be spoken in another language, then it it is a merely grammar - with many grammatical structures ruling it's usage

 

Mathematics may not be symbolic logic, why do you think I deemed it “the closest thing to a best guess"?

 

 

Subjective: POV is of being subjected to or affected emotionally by "topic".

Examples: A Christian speaking of Christianity. An African American speaking of racism. A soldier speaking of his commanding officer.

 

Objective: POV is not subjected to or affected (emotionally) by "topic"

Examples: Technical manual on using keyboard. Wikipedia article on electrons. Google results report

 

On the contrary:

 

subjective: everything you or anybody else says, does, or thinks.

 

(to err is human after all)

 

objective: don’t ask me, I’m only human and pure objectivity is beyond my frail cognition.

 

 

Look at you own examples. The subjective pertained to a person, the objective related to information. Only people have the luxury of being emotive and subjective, manuals and articles are not afforded the same luxury - it’s a sentience thing wink.gif

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
K^2

It's not really about being human. There are only two ways to stay perfectly objective. You either must know everything, or you must not make any statements, because they will be biased by the incomplete knowledge. Former is impossible, and not just to humans, and the later is pointless. So subjectivity is not just a human thing. It's the nature of all information. The only question is how subjective you want to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
soleil

I think it's even simpler than what you guys are saying... Subjective means it is according to the subject. Objective means it is according to the object.

 

If you have an object (Empire State Building) and you have 10 subjects (people) standing around, not knowing the true height, and they all guess the height... you have 10 subjective numbers because you have 10 numbers according to the respective subject. Then the real number (I don't know what it is) is the objective number, as that numebr depends only on the object.

 

The two terms comes from language terms... subject of a sentence, object of a sentence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheJkWhoSaysNi
It's not really about being human. There are only two ways to stay perfectly objective. You either must know everything, or you must not make any statements, because they will be biased by the incomplete knowledge. Former is impossible, and not just to humans, and the later is pointless. So subjectivity is not just a human thing. It's the nature of all information. The only question is how subjective you want to be.

I disagree.

 

It's defiantly possible to stay objective. Listing facts would be objective. e.g saying "Everest is the tallest mountain in the world." is completely objective. While a subjective statement would be "K-2 looks taller." since it's based on one persons perceptions.

 

For a statement to be objective, the subject of the statement has to be in some way quantifiable or shown to be true based on previously defined rules (scientific, grammatical, mathematical, etc).

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
K^2

Objectively, there is no such thing as fact. Go ahead and prove to me that Everest is the tallest mountain without falling on a single subjective statement. Gather your thoughts. I'll wait.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
K^2

I'm not sure if you are failing in logic or understanding of English language, but your post still makes no sense. The only way the word "Subject" can be used to describe people standing around the Empire State Building is if they are subjects of some king. This usage makes no sense, and other usages are simply wrong.

 

Edit: And def. 7 for Subjective refers to things like Subjective Case. It is far from the same thing as "Subjective" in debate.

Edited by K^2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • 2 Users Currently Viewing
    0 members, 0 Anonymous, 2 Guests

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using GTAForums.com, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.