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Svip

The U.S. losing power?

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The-King

 

~TK~, whom isn't? Any 'first world' nation is on their high chair thanks to big business. The ways of conquest in the past are done, and the age of Diplomatic Business is already reigning supreme. In fact, I remember and earlier argument about North Korea and China, where we specifically pointed out that China will never side with North Korea as long as America continues to give it so much economic value. Business may be tearing our world apart internally, but internationally it keeps the rich (America, China, Russia, Commonwealth etc) from killing each other.

 

I guess in laymen's terms you could say it keeps the poor poor and the rich, well.... rich.

Well yeah, the industrial revolution saw the rise of business' influence in government certainly, mostly in America (which is still true to this day), but the amount of corporate influence is jumping more and more and doing it in a very noticeable way as time goes on. Take note on all legislation regarding issues relating to piracy and the fines and jail time involved than put them in proportion to crimes that from a logical standpoint fall within the same context and level of maliciousness. The difference is astronomical and that's all because big businesses essentially have congress on a leash. They're trying their hardest to dictate and control the near infinitive freedom that comes from the internet because it allows people to share data in ways that hurt their business or corporate image as nearly all content on the internet is unfiltered. But that's straying from the point, which is the obvious fact that governmental corporatism is skyrocketing and there are no checks nor balances in regards to handling it because our founders had absolutely no way to predict corruption in such a manner nor on such a scale.

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Tyler

I'll agree that the current political sway is greatly influenced by the Big Business powers, but I must ask about your progressive ideas. Are you pushing for a re-vamped or completely new constitution? Or are you saying we drop the conservative values altogether and start governing our country with new ideals completely? That was the message I got from the 'Arbitrary process" you were describing. It's a possibility, but given the power our Constitution holds with the ideals of the average American, I doubt we will ever lose it (even as the figure it merely is now) for quite a long time.

 

 

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Rown

I find it funny that government is so involved in business at a time when business is thought to be so involved in government. The idea that two things can't interact without mutual levels of effect.

 

Also there doesn't really need to be this separation of opinions. The statement "our values our tearing us apart" is generally true tangentially. Healthcare for instance, one side wants people to have healthcare, the other side wants the government not to control it. They are not opposites, yet the oppose each other. Well what's wrong with the present system that people on the left want addressed? People don't have the money to afford healthcare. What's wrong with the governments fix that people on the right don't like? People want to be able to control their property (meaning its expression via money).

 

I don't know if I harp on this a lot or not here... but when two sides disagree and yet use the same language in their disagreement... the similarity might be the problem. Here meaning: money being taken from one and given to another to cover healthcare costs.

 

In a sense we had a similar dilemma with slavery. Taking capital and labor from one and giving it to another (the newly freed slaves). Other countries were able to avoid war. Why weren't we? We were unable to reach a suitable compromise. That doesn't mean that one didn't exist, just that it wasn't pursued. Can we find compromise this time? In a choice of two actions there is always a third way so I'm hopeful.

 

Rown rampage_ani.gif

 

P.S. To be clear, I don't think we'd go to war over healthcare... because that would be idiotic.

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patsfan4life
America is losing the values and beliefs that made it a great nation. I say America reached its climax in the 50s during the Eisenhower administration, and slowly began to lose influence afterwards. Its kinda like the Soviet Union after reaching its height of influence in 1960.

Our "beliefs and values" are what's tearing us apart today, religion is more noticeably finding it's way into our political process than it has in the past as people start to reject it on a larger scale and become gratuitously more accepting of things that were once generalized taboos while it's proponents resist to their last breath. Massive portions of most politicians time is spent on ideological bullsh*t (or rather their public time). We as a people overlook important issues in order to push or oppose church centric ideologies that strip people of their rights. It's becomes less prevalent the further we get from election season, but it's still there, constantly.

 

Our country isn't losing power, but the over-complicated bureaucracy that is the US Government is caving in on itself from the giant stacks of bureaucratic bullsh*ttery that's stacking up on top of it. Everything seems to be more and more of an arbitrary process, putting more people in between different levels of the political process, over-complicating things and causing or forcing miss-communications. The complication of the process also makes corruption easier to hide, especially given the fact that the earmarks on bills now don't have to be made public. Our government is essentially suckling the tit of big business as it force feeds them their opinions.

What do you have against religion?

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Ari Gold

Problems always occur when the church becomes involved with the state, hence why any rational-thinking clear thinker, regardless of ideology, would support the separation of the church and the state, especially in a melting-pot nation such as the United States. I'd hate to have some Evangelical loony from Texas or Arkansas interfere in my pursuit for the benefits of capitalism as a private citizen, migrating from another country for greater opportunities to fulfil my life.

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patsfan4life
Problems always occur when the church becomes involved with the state, hence why any rational-thinking clear thinker, regardless of ideology, would support the separation of the church and the state, especially in a melting-pot nation such as the United States. I'd hate to have some Evangelical loony from Texas or Arkansas interfere in my pursuit for the benefits of capitalism as a private citizen, migrating from another country for greater opportunities to fulfil my life.

Seperation of church and state is used for the wrong reasons. when it was implemented in the constitution it was designed to keep the people from being directly controlled by the church(ie being taxed by Pope, or having a catholic/protestant war). But now, it is being literally abused taking away the rights of a majority christian country. I mean in Chicago people weren't even allowed to have christmas trees in public because it "violated" the 1st amendment. The porpose of the amendment is is to stop Church vs. Government conflict, not to encourage state athiesm.

 

Anyway, back to the reason why america is losing influence. America is losing what made it a successful nation. The american people need to go back to what got them this far, and not "fix" whats not broken.

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The-King
America is losing the values and beliefs that made it a great nation. I say America reached its climax in the 50s during the Eisenhower administration, and slowly began to lose influence afterwards. Its kinda like the Soviet Union after reaching its height of influence in 1960.

Our "beliefs and values" are what's tearing us apart today, religion is more noticeably finding it's way into our political process than it has in the past as people start to reject it on a larger scale and become gratuitously more accepting of things that were once generalized taboos while it's proponents resist to their last breath. Massive portions of most politicians time is spent on ideological bullsh*t (or rather their public time). We as a people overlook important issues in order to push or oppose church centric ideologies that strip people of their rights. It's becomes less prevalent the further we get from election season, but it's still there, constantly.

 

Our country isn't losing power, but the over-complicated bureaucracy that is the US Government is caving in on itself from the giant stacks of bureaucratic bullsh*ttery that's stacking up on top of it. Everything seems to be more and more of an arbitrary process, putting more people in between different levels of the political process, over-complicating things and causing or forcing miss-communications. The complication of the process also makes corruption easier to hide, especially given the fact that the earmarks on bills now don't have to be made public. Our government is essentially suckling the tit of big business as it force feeds them their opinions.

What do you have against religion?

Aside from the fact that it's an archaic practice whose sole, original purpose was to provide an explanation to things the people of the time had no means of which to explain that has abso-f*cking-lutely no place in modern government (or any government for that matter) because it's essentially just a mass propaganda tool used to manipulate reasonable people to use their religion as a means to validate baseless hatred? Nothing.

 

The point is that many people in our country aren't willing to let go of this archaic system and look at issues from a standpoint not clouded in misinterpreted religious doctrine. Religion hasn't done a single good thing for America except drive us apart and make us look like a fanatical collection of Bible bashers waving our cocks at the world and telling them our belief system is better than theirs because we have values.

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patsfan4life
America is losing the values and beliefs that made it a great nation. I say America reached its climax in the 50s during the Eisenhower administration, and slowly began to lose influence afterwards. Its kinda like the Soviet Union after reaching its height of influence in 1960.

Our "beliefs and values" are what's tearing us apart today, religion is more noticeably finding it's way into our political process than it has in the past as people start to reject it on a larger scale and become gratuitously more accepting of things that were once generalized taboos while it's proponents resist to their last breath. Massive portions of most politicians time is spent on ideological bullsh*t (or rather their public time). We as a people overlook important issues in order to push or oppose church centric ideologies that strip people of their rights. It's becomes less prevalent the further we get from election season, but it's still there, constantly.

 

Our country isn't losing power, but the over-complicated bureaucracy that is the US Government is caving in on itself from the giant stacks of bureaucratic bullsh*ttery that's stacking up on top of it. Everything seems to be more and more of an arbitrary process, putting more people in between different levels of the political process, over-complicating things and causing or forcing miss-communications. The complication of the process also makes corruption easier to hide, especially given the fact that the earmarks on bills now don't have to be made public. Our government is essentially suckling the tit of big business as it force feeds them their opinions.

What do you have against religion?

Aside from the fact that it's an archaic practice whose sole, original purpose was to provide an explanation to things the people of the time had no means of which to explain that has abso-f*cking-lutely no place in modern government (or any government for that matter) because it's essentially just a mass propaganda tool used to manipulate reasonable people to use their religion as a means to validate baseless hatred? Nothing.

 

The point is that many people in our country aren't willing to let go of this archaic system and look at issues from a standpoint not clouded in misinterpreted religious doctrine. Religion hasn't done a single good thing for America except drive us apart and make us look like a fanatical collection of Bible bashers waving our cocks at the world and telling them our belief system is better than theirs because we have values.

Christianity has done no good? Dude after Rome fell Christianity was the only thing holding Europe, and probably your ancesters, together, and actually set up a social structure in Europe that kept society in order, allowing social progress, and also being a motovation for the Age of Exploration, leading to the discovery of the Americas. If it wasn't for christianity you'd probably spend your life in an orderless post Roman society fighting for your life. And here's another thing. When Christianity started at first, Christians were fed to lions by the pagan government, and people were still converting because of their will to serve God and go to heaven. Thats an important value America is beginning to forget, as they lose the patriotism and willpower that made them a glorious nation. BTW heres another thing, you'd probably thing christianity causes war, but guess who the two biggest mass murderers of the world are: Stalin and Hitler, an athiest and a closet athiest. But if you could care less about this all I gotta say is good luck with that, and lets please just get back to the original topic please.

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The-King

 

America is losing the values and beliefs that made it a great nation. I say America reached its climax in the 50s during the Eisenhower administration, and slowly began to lose influence afterwards. Its kinda like the Soviet Union after reaching its height of influence in 1960.

Our "beliefs and values" are what's tearing us apart today, religion is more noticeably finding it's way into our political process than it has in the past as people start to reject it on a larger scale and become gratuitously more accepting of things that were once generalized taboos while it's proponents resist to their last breath. Massive portions of most politicians time is spent on ideological bullsh*t (or rather their public time). We as a people overlook important issues in order to push or oppose church centric ideologies that strip people of their rights. It's becomes less prevalent the further we get from election season, but it's still there, constantly.

 

Our country isn't losing power, but the over-complicated bureaucracy that is the US Government is caving in on itself from the giant stacks of bureaucratic bullsh*ttery that's stacking up on top of it. Everything seems to be more and more of an arbitrary process, putting more people in between different levels of the political process, over-complicating things and causing or forcing miss-communications. The complication of the process also makes corruption easier to hide, especially given the fact that the earmarks on bills now don't have to be made public. Our government is essentially suckling the tit of big business as it force feeds them their opinions.

What do you have against religion?

Aside from the fact that it's an archaic practice whose sole, original purpose was to provide an explanation to things the people of the time had no means of which to explain that has abso-f*cking-lutely no place in modern government (or any government for that matter) because it's essentially just a mass propaganda tool used to manipulate reasonable people to use their religion as a means to validate baseless hatred? Nothing.

 

The point is that many people in our country aren't willing to let go of this archaic system and look at issues from a standpoint not clouded in misinterpreted religious doctrine. Religion hasn't done a single good thing for America except drive us apart and make us look like a fanatical collection of Bible bashers waving our cocks at the world and telling them our belief system is better than theirs because we have values.

Christianity has done no good? Dude after Rome fell Christianity was the only thing holding Europe, and probably your ancesters, together, and actually set up a social structure in Europe that kept society in order, allowing social progress, and also being a motovation for the Age of Exploration, leading to the discovery of the Americas. If it wasn't for christianity you'd probably spend your life in an orderless post Roman society fighting for your life. And here's another thing. When Christianity started at first, Christians were fed to lions by the pagan government, and people were still converting because of their will to serve God and go to heaven. Thats an important value America is beginning to forget, as they lose the patriotism and willpower that made them a glorious nation. BTW heres another thing, you'd probably thing christianity causes war, but guess who the two biggest mass murderers of the world are: Stalin and Hitler, an athiest and a closet athiest. But if you could care less about this all I gotta say is good luck with that, and lets please just get back to the original topic please.

And if Christianity never came to be Rome would still be a dominant force in the world to this day, your beloved religion brought the greatest empire in history down to nothing than produced the longest period of absolute stagnation, sickness, warfare and general horror in human history, but that has jack sh*t to do with the topic at hand. I at least attempted to prove my point using the current topic to provide examples, you... I really don't have words for what you tried to do. I love when people try to validate outdated opinions using absolutely irrelevant history as an example. I'd give you points for your moxie (obvious intense indoctrination aside), but then you brought Hitler and Stalin into the mix, so I'm just going to proceed to laugh at you for a bit.

Edited by The-King

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dog_day_sunrise

So, the US loosing power.

 

Depends in what sense you mean power. Power can signify a number of things- military power, which dictates a large portion of a nation's power balance in the global theatre. Economic power, which is it's buying/selling ability and the size of its market. And political power- which is the ability for a nation to coerce other nations into favourable decisions, and to maintain favourable relationships with other states. All three are to some degree related.

 

Military power:

 

In terms of military strength, the US is still top of the pile. In terms of sheer firepower, they outgun almost every other nation combined with a combination of high-technology weapons systems and strength in numbers. They have the second largest nuclear arsenal on earth (the largest being Russia's) but the most effective delivery systems, and their military is highly trained and specialised in comparison to that of, say, China or Russia. However, and it's a big however, the last half-century has seen a rapid change from regular to irregular warfare styles and the US, with it's large, industrialised defence economy, has been extremely slow to react. They may have the greatest military strength on the planet but that does not make them any more or less capable of fighting a modern war than any other nation. Iraq and Afghanistan are perfect examples of the US struggling to put their military might into results, and their inability to grasp the concept of fighting an insurgency with an effective counterinsurgency is nothing short of astounding.

 

So yes, they are militarily strong, but in a modern theatre of war that counts for almost nothing if they are incapable of fighting the same style of combat as those they are aiming to defeat.

 

Economic power:

 

US economic power has been waning since the fall of the Berlin Wall, and the rapid acceleration of Eastern economies in the years since the economic crash of the early 90's. The issue is that, whilst the US is extremely strong in terms of domestic production, their export market has been relatively weak for a number of years, as demand for US products has tailed off outside of North America. Part of this has been the enormous ramping up of production and exportation from the East, where labour costs are much lower (China) and the quality of production is perceived to be much higher (Japan). Though the US has domestic incentives for buying American, they can't force these on the rest of the world and therefore their export production suffers. And all at a time when (regardless of the recession) disposable income is increasing, along with consumer spending, in many parts of the world.

 

The US domestic economy is strong, yet it's export economy has been weakened. This poses a serious problem as true wealth is no longer confined to the West anymore.

 

Political power:

 

Depends who you ask really. A military strategist would say that the US, after it's brief flirtation with Strategic Idealism, is starting to realise that the world is no longer unipolar and that in order to maintain it's balance of power it needs to throw it's weight around more in the international arena. Many developing nations are starting to punch above their weight because of the abundance of valuable materials for industry, and many of these states have no geopolitical link with the US- in fact, many of them were funded, either covertly or overtly, by the USSR during the Cold War (for example the significant defence spending by the Kremlin during the 70's and 80's funding various governments in South America, the Middle East and Africa, and supplying them with low-priced weaponry for various internal and cross-border disputes. Many nations in the Middle East and also in East Africa (where many states have large Muslim populations) see the US involvement in the Middle East and Somalia, their staunch support for Israel (blame AIPAC for that) and their seeming inability to understand the struggles many nations go through in the transition to democratic government and market economics, and prefer to hedge their best with China or Russia instead. Twenty years ago this would have been unthinkable, as the world was truly Unipolar after the collapse of the Soviet Union and the US was the only power to do deals with, but the rise of China and the re-establishment of Russia as a global player (albeit one funded to a significant degree by backhand dealing and organised crime) has caused many allies of convenience to abandon the US.

 

So to summarise, the US does most definitely have the potential to wield political power across large swathes of the world, but their failure to understand or sympathise with nations who are undergoing the difficult transition to democracy and the emerging involvement in a global market, and their perceived attacks on national sovereignty (whether justified & legitimate or not) has significantly weakened them.

 

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