Did Vic Vance die in Vice City, Circa. 1986?

[hot-devil 1]

 

Maybe when Ken mentioned in VC about the brothers, he referred only to those who were officially in the business, which were Lance and supposedly Vic. He didn't mention specifically that there were only two brothers. So it's possible that Vic and Lance may have another brother or even brothers somewhere not with them in VCS.

 

And as we can find out in the end of VCS, Vic said something like he's quitting the business. So it's possible that Lance recruited another brother(who got killed in VC), who might be either whom Vic mentioned about in the game on more than one occasion, or another one in the siblings.

Victor was killed in Vice City--FACT(Before the release of VCS)

Pete was killed in Vice City--FACT(AFTER the release of VCS)

 

There were only 2 Vance brothers--FACT(Before the release of VCS)

There are now 3 Vance Brothers-- FACT(After the release of VCS)

 

In the end of VCS, Vic DID mention that he was going to leave town. He also mentioned Pete. That could be facts R* included in VCS to Cover up for the continuity error in the storyline before VC and VCS. After all, 2 years doesn't warrant a change of face, character, voice and accent, right? After all, there were many continuity errors in the storyline, like Phil Cassidy's Hands, 8 Ball's "Messed-Up" Hands, and King Courtney's Death(He was supposed to be dead in 2000(GTA Advance) but returned in GTAIII(2001) to give Phone Missions to Claude.)

By the Way, talking about Claude, do you realize that the Claude Speed in GTA2 was wearing the SAME clothes as the "Player 2" skin in GTAIII? That could be a hint...

[Pranjal 1]

After all, 2 years doesn't warrant a change of face, character, voice and accent, right?

Then what the hell happened to Tony Cipriani who in LCS(1998) looked a pale shadow of himself in GTA3(2001)?

 

Remember when GTAVC was made way back in 2002, the graphics engine was not advanced. With better graphics, better character modelling and shading came into play and that is why Vic in VC intro looked so different from the one in VCS.

 

And talking about the difference in speech and accent, I want to give an example.Even if the Balla OG Kane from GTASA is brought back as a protagonist, his voice would undergo seaway changes.That is obvious.

 

So, finding faults in speech and appearance is in no way a big evidence that the person killed in VC intro is not Vic.

[.:Alex:. 3]

The fact of the matter is that Victor Vance is the man who is killed in the VC intro. The VC site says that Lance and Victor Vance are two brothers running their own criminal empire. Pete has nothing to do with this. R* Leeds has only confused us. I'll say it again: VICTOR VANCE IS THE MAN WHO IS KILLED AT THE BEGINNING OF VC.

 

End Of.

 

The only questions that remain is, why Vic changed so much in 2 years?

[TonyZimmzy 33]

On the VC website it does indeed say Victor Vance and states that the former Vance Crime Family only had two members. Pete was always out of the picture and Vic, despite his protests, was a criminal and was doing it for the family.

 

Thus, Victor Vance is the brother who dies at the beginning of Vice City.

 

I think R* realise how stupid this would look with someone like Vic being killed so easily 2 years later so they made up Pete to cover everything up but they never really thought about it. I think we need another explanatory DVD like The Introduction.

^That fact could be clearly a continuity error on R* part.

Thus backing up my theory that Victor was not present in the intro. of VC.

 

This whole thing is a continuity error.

 

 

I have one question, though.

 

Did Diaz know that Lance (Quentin) was a Vance?

If he did, then he would not be working with him at all. Especially after killing Lance brother. I haven't gotten to the Diaz missions in VCS, but was Lance involved in thoe missions.

Diaz didn't think Lance (Quentin) knew that it was him who set it up to have them both killed, and as I wrote in a previous post, Diaz didn't even know it was the Lance Brothers he was killing, read it and it'll make sense

[humancorpse 0]

After all, 2 years doesn't warrant a change of face, character, voice and accent, right?

Then what the hell happened to Tony Cipriani who in LCS(1998) looked a pale shadow of himself in GTA3(2001)?

 

Remember when GTAVC was made way back in 2002, the graphics engine was not advanced. With better graphics, better character modelling and shading came into play and that is why Vic in VC intro looked so different from the one in VCS.

 

And talking about the difference in speech and accent, I want to give an example.Even if the Balla OG Kane from GTASA is brought back as a protagonist, his voice would undergo seaway changes.That is obvious.

 

So, finding faults in speech and appearance is in no way a big evidence that the person killed in VC intro is not Vic.

Exactly. How many of you would like to play as Victor Vance with the looks he has in VC (or atleast, the looks the guy I and many others claim to be Vic has)? The point is, before VCS, Vic Vance was a totally blank sheet as a charachter. The only major thing that was known about him was that he was Lance`s brother. Appart from that, he was full of possibilities. In other words, he was the perfect candidate for a role as a main charachter. The only thing that didn`t fit was his looks, he didn`t look to much like someone you would want to play as. But that was easily fixed. A shaved headed, a better fit body, and no columbian accent, and he was the perfect badass. And the voice doesn`t really mean much. Im gonna take a wild guess here, and say the guy who does the voice for Vic in Vc was a pretty random actor. When R* decided to have Vic return, they hired a better actor they thought would fit better. I mean come on, having Victor walking in around with a columbain accent through the whole VCS would seem pretty stupid.

[Greene 2]

Diaz didn't even know it was the Lance Brothers he was killing

Exactly. Why do people say 'Why would Diaz try to kill Lance and Vic and then allow Lance to work for him?' Its clear, Diaz did not attack the deal to kill the Vance brothers, he did it for the drugs. He probably didn't know exactly who he was killing. Simple as that.

[Gantons Most Wanted 75]

but the other thing is what about mr black from the sound of the missions you do for him it was him who arranged the deal to be hit

[Greene 2]

but the other thing is what about mr black from the sound of the missions you do for him it was him who arranged the deal to be hit

Yeah but the deal being a hit doesn't make sense. Why would he allow Lance who was also at the deal to continue working for him

[gohan__14 0]

Maybe when Ken mentioned in VC about the brothers, he referred only to those who were officially in the business, which were Lance and supposedly Vic. He didn't mention specifically that there were only two brothers. So it's possible that Vic and Lance may have another brother or even brothers somewhere not with them in VCS.

 

And as we can find out in the end of VCS, Vic said something like he's quitting the business. So it's possible that Lance recruited another brother(who got killed in VC), who might be either whom Vic mentioned about in the game on more than one occasion, or another one in the siblings.

Victor was killed in Vice City--FACT(Before the release of VCS)

Pete was killed in Vice City--FACT(AFTER the release of VCS)

 

There were only 2 Vance brothers--FACT(Before the release of VCS)

There are now 3 Vance Brothers-- FACT(After the release of VCS)

 

In the end of VCS, Vic DID mention that he was going to leave town. He also mentioned Pete. That could be facts R* included in VCS to Cover up for the continuity error in the storyline before VC and VCS. After all, 2 years doesn't warrant a change of face, character, voice and accent, right? After all, there were many continuity errors in the storyline, like Phil Cassidy's Hands, 8 Ball's "Messed-Up" Hands, and King Courtney's Death(He was supposed to be dead in 2000(GTA Advance) but returned in GTAIII(2001) to give Phone Missions to Claude.)

By the Way, talking about Claude, do you realize that the Claude Speed in GTA2 was wearing the SAME clothes as the "Player 2" skin in GTAIII? That could be a hint...

King Courtney doesn't die in GTA: A, Mike let him go, after King says that Mike is the winner, cops where all over the place, so Mike didn't got bodoring killing King. He just need money and that's all. Oh and i think Phil was making that Vietnam story with his arm, to get out of trouble. You would do the same thing. Just think what would happen if you say to police or someone that you had some searious guns and other stupf. You right about 8 ball thought. He got burn his hands in GTA: A, and in GTA III he says, that one cop droped hot supe and he got burned. Anyway... What if we all just say that Vic didn't die in VC. I'm shure he was phonying it, or he wear a armor. Just think of it. A guy who could have got all city, if he wanted, get's shot by 3 kiddies with no cajones. Isn't it sounds stupid? Anyway i hope they release another game on psp (maybe it's going to be SAS, maybe other, just don't start another flame war, please) and it will explane everything, maybe even what happened to Tommy, and why he didn't answered when Ken called. Maybe Vic revanged for Lance?

[Brian Forbes 0]

Its only natural to want Vic to live on, but face facts. Vic as we all know operates "the business" at least in Vice City Stories we've all seen and more to the point Diaz wanted the Vance Brothers (crime syndicate of which theres only two) out of the picture. In Vice City when Lance talks of his brother he's avenging - the one who's always putting him down- that could only be Vic. In Vice City Stories isn't Peter mentioned as being much much younger or terminally ill or some sh!!t? Its Vic it even looks like him disregard the awful columbian acent.

Edited November 14, 2006 by Brian Forbes

[hot-devil 1]

OK, Vic is just another continuity error. So, let's talk about Diaz. You people are confused. The Forellis arranged the deal, Diaz's Men ambushed the deal to take the drugs, but his men with no cojones did not know that the Vance brothers was on their side, so, Vic was killed.

[Brian Forbes 0]

 

OK, Vic is just another continuity error. So, let's talk about Diaz. You people are confused. The Forellis arranged the deal, Diaz's Men ambushed the deal to take the drugs, but his men with no cojones did not know that the Vance brothers was on their side, so, Vic was killed.

You people? Look Colonel Juan Garcia Cortez in fact used his "connections" to arrange the deal ok?... "well away from Vice City's established thugs". Diaz simply wanted to get rid of the competition in the lucrative drugs trade so as to retain his position as "Mr. Coke" (#1). Afterall there was a lot of competition nowadays; the "Vance Brothers" (and the mafia to a limited extent) were rivals. "Times are very tried, barbarians at the gates... a time for rewarding ones friends and liquidating ones enemies".

 

The "Vance Brothers" (two man outfit) were a serious player and a real fly in the ointment to Diaz's operations; The mafia also presented a new threat which in turn needed to be taken care of at some point... "what next the freakin' mafia". That leads me to believe as the mafia weren't established in Vice City, he didn't even know who in fact Vic and Lance were dealing with. The brunt of the ambush was aimed squarely at Vic and Lance. The deal was elaborately concieved by Cortez and few limited details were overheard and ushered from the "loose tongue" of Gonzalez who wasn't exactly fond of Vic. There you have it.

 

The fact that Vic once knew Diaz means zill-to-nothing-theres no loyalty or ethics about it. Diaz even said something in 86' like "nobody deals in my town" and for a man so unstable as to want the sharks gang all dead after their leader "stole" what was it 2%-his fee probably; the guys a complete nut job...surely you remember his cutscenes?...he had clearly lost his mind.

 

If you read his profile on rockstargames.com/vicecity/ police report you'd know that already.

Edited November 15, 2006 by Brian Forbes

[MC. 127]

What about that cutscene of the mission "Domo Arigato Domestoboto"? In that cutscene, Lance borrowed some money from Ricardo and then Lance said something like if he doesn't pay back, they'll work for Diaz. Then after they had a drink, Diaz said that he'll kill Lance and Victor with a blunt instrument or something then they laughed.

 

And about the error thing, it's also just like how Miguel died in both GTA: 3 (2001) & GTA: Liberty City Stories (1998).

[Nick Papagiorgio 2]

Exactly what I have been chiming about, continuity error.

 

It is possible that Pete was the dead Vance in the VC intro.

and it is also possible Vic was the Vance who died in the intro.

 

 

I guess we'll just have to keep on guessing.

 

[Rock Howard 140]

When Rockstar realized the fact that Vic differs a lot from his GTA Vice City rendition, they decided that Pete Vance, the third Vance Brother that was introduced in Vice City Stories, to be the Vance Brother that died in the Drug Deal circa 1986.

Do you have a source from Rockstar on this, or are you just making sh*t up?

[Pranjal 1]

 

Do you have a source from Rockstar on this, or are you just making sh*t up?

As I have already mentioned , there were two Vance brothers initially. So there was no question of a 3rd brother between 2002-2006. When VCS came about, the so called "Pete Vance" spawned automatically .

 

Link: http://www.rockstargames.com/vicecity/

 

Browse the Crime Board. Even now, it says Lance Vance and Victor Vance. No mention of Pete "Who" though.

 

Edited November 16, 2006 by Pranjal

[hot-devil 1]

The best explanation to this:

All the GTA games have DIFFERENT storylines and the two Vics are just sharing the same name!!!

 

Not possible?! OF course not possible! They are based on the same storyline, the GTAIII storyline!

 

The only explanation could be(if assumed Vic died in the VC intro): Vic undergone a plastic surgery introduced to him by Reni. The surgery fails and he ends up with a latin accent and a different face.

[Nick Papagiorgio 2]

 

The surgery fails and he ends up with a latin accent and a different face.

 

 

How can plastic surgery cause a person to have a Latin(hispanic) accent? That makes no sense at all. Unless you think that Vic lives in a magical world, plastic surgery can't change your accent.

 

(OFFTOPIC: There is this one woman, born and raised in the USA, and is American, but she grew up having a British accent, never going to Britain before)

[Brian Forbes 0]

The surgery fails and he ends up with a latin accent and a different face.

 

 

How can plastic surgery cause a person to have a Latin(hispanic) accent? That makes no sense at all. Unless you think that Vic lives in a magical world, plastic surgery can't change your accent.

 

(OFFTOPIC: There is this one woman, born and raised in the USA, and is American, but she grew up having a British accent, never going to Britain before)

Sounds like reincarnation to me.

[silencio 0]

yeah...i have 2 agree wif tommy zimmzy.....this whole post is pretty much a spoiler to newbies to the game.....i dunno....

[Brutuz 0]

I think its Pete cause which name sounds more Columbian? Victor or Pete?

[CarpetDweller 4]

I might as well throw in my opinion:

 

Yes, I believe it's Vic who dies in 1986.

I'm sure it was intended to be him when Vice City came out. As stated before there were previously only 2 brothers, Vic & Lance. Lance survived and the other brother died. Therefore Vic died.

 

When we were all guessing who the main character in VCS might be a few people mentioned Victor Vance. The only real reason we could give for it not being him was that we knew that he would one day be killed.

It was then revealed that Vic would be the main character. We seemed to accept this.

 

I've now finished the game. and I still believe Vic will be killed during the drug deal.

 

Why?

 

Because if they wanted to make it clear that it isn't Vic that dies then the main character might as well have been Pete all along. Why choose an already known character?

 

To me, it perfectly suits Rockstars dark & ironic humour to have him die. (note: I'm also a believer in Maria's death at the end of GTA3). Throughout the whole storyline Vic complains that Lance always gets him into trouble. He constantly says that it is the last time and he doesn't want to be involved. But everytime he's dragged back into it, doing all the work, taking all the flack while Lance gets away with doing practically nothing.

Doesn't it make perfect sense that R* would slip in a knowing joke to the fans? It's obvious that Lance is talking about the deal from the opening cutscene in VC. What better way to end the game than to have Vic protesting that, yet again, he wants nothing to with it. It's a kind of "Here we go again" style ending.

 

I really don't have a problem with knowing about Vic's death any more than Vincent's in Pulp Fiction.

 

As for the accent, I put that down to either a continuity error or him simply putting on a funny voice when saying "Grade A Colombian!".

 

And Pete? Pete was just introduced to give Vic the motivation to continue through the missions. He did it for his poor, weak brother. Maybe if they'd made it their mother who was sick we could have avoided all this debate.

 

Speaking of which I wonder if they'd think of using CJ's mother as the main character of a San Andreas Stories.

 

So, to cut a long story short:

Although I can see the arguments for it being Pete, I firmly believe it is Vic who dies in the drug deal with Tommy.

[d00d 9]

All arguments are equal. Its just a choice of belief.

 

I think rockstar threw in Pete so you could choose your own preference to who dies at the start of VC. There are perfectly viable reasons for the character being either Pete, or Vic. Its entirely up to one person - getting everyone to agree its one person is never going to happen because all the arguments are equal to one another.

[Nightrage 6]

I think It was Vic,for most of the reasons that have been mentiont before, lance says his brother was always picking on him en stuff.Though Vic wanted to quit the business I think Lance somehow lost all the money the earned (probable on coke) and they needed one last deal to get money.Also Seeing all the empire buildings are gone in vc, so somehow you´ve lost controll of them to,(probable by the continious attackings that are so anoyoing )I think Pete was thrown in to give Vic a reason to do all the crimes he´s did´t want to do.

But It is odd that there isn´t an afro american guy at the drugs deal.

I thought It was Vic before I even played the game, so It felt kinda stupid doing missions knowing youre gonna die eventualy, but he every one dies

The Stories game never have really high purpuses for there maincharacter, Toni also becomes just a servert after doing all kinds of dangerous things and earning louds of money for salvatore. Maybe in los santos(or san andreas)stories you play as OG LOC

[.:Alex:. 3]

I said it before, and I will say it again.. And it's as incredibly simple as this.

 

Victor Vance dies at the beginning of VC.

 

The official VC website says that the Vance Crime family were comprised of two brothers, Lance and Victor Vance. And Lance wasn't the one that dies... Thus, Victor must obviously be the one that is killed. Simple as that.

 

Pete was just an excuse for Vic going into the army. I simply think that people have misinterpereted this character and have instead caused confusion among themselves. I doubt that Rockstar ever intended to retcon this in any form. People have just confused themselves about Pete Vance.

 

That's it. End Of.

 

The only question remains is, Why does Victor have a latino accent and look physically different 2 years later? Then again, how can Toni be exactly the same?

Edited December 1, 2006 by .:Alex:.

[Nick Papagiorgio 2]

The only question remains is, Why does Victor have a latino accent and look physically different 2 years later? Then again, how can Toni be exactly the same?

A lot can change in two/three years. You can get fatter. as did happen with Toni. We find out why he gets fat, because he was constantly told by his Ma and Salvatore that he is too skinny. Then (when his Portland safehouse explodes), he moves back in with his Ma, where she feeds him. Thus, him becoming fat by 2001.

 

I guess the "Vic in VC" theory is left up to the fans. We can't actually determine this. It is one of the many mysteries of the GTA series. The outcome of whether or not Vic dies, is left in the minds of us, the GTA players.

[Sinful 0]

The only question remains is, Why does Victor have a latino accent and look physically different 2 years later? Then again, how can Toni be exactly the same?

Vic was just a secondary character, so they just picked up some random voice actor (the same guy who did officer hernandez in SA) to voice Vic. About the appearance, they just improved his face. Or would you like to play as an extremely low-detail (and low-poly) character?

[creative madman 1]

heres how it happend in my mind

 

1984 Vic and Lance make their ways into Vice City, the events of the game ensue, leaving Lance with a pile of drugs (very last cutscene says something about 20 keys of coke? or something 2 that degree), but Vic strongly disagrees with lance and attempts to steer clear of the drug game. their affiliations with Diaz have been cut off, but they are aparantly cool. in 1986 Lance still has these drugs (i dunno how long coke lasts so maybe just the same quantity) and he NEEDS Vic to help him sell it, and it is possibly Vics last deal, of course the Forelli Family who is looking to expand their operations sends Vercetti to come buy the coke. at the exchange Vic, Harry and Lee are killed (but the others escape narrowly) by Diaz's Goons as he feels his empire is threatend by Vic and the events of Vice City ensue.

 

i mean it all makes sense, i think Pete was just a catalyst for Vics "im only doing this for my family" persona, and as the crime board on the official Vice City crime board says Vic Vance, im not going to beilive it was pete who gets wasted in teh start of Vice City

 

sorry for the lack of spolier tags, ive tried every bloody combination i can think of, i cant work it out

[mageezer 0]

I'm gonna throw a possibility into the ring here: What if the Vice City Police Department's information is wrong? I mean, they're not the smartest, most professional guys around, are they? You've seen them run into walls randomly and put their hands behind their backs patiently while trying to shoot you. The police in GTA are always stereotypically stupid donut-eating coppers. Perhaps their information about the Vance crime family is one or two years old? Because back in 1984 (possibly 85 too), Vic and Lance WERE the only two members of the Vance crime family. If it is indeed Pete that dies, (an idea which I'm not advocating, just suggesting) maybe the police thought it was Vic, who could have left Vice City to get out of the drug game. The card on the corkboard doesn't say that Vic dies, does it?

 

All I'm saying is, there's no solid proof as to who it is that kicks the bucket. Rockstar has deliberately left it open-ended, otherwise they would have given us a definite answer. So people like .:Alex:. who say "That's it. End Of.", suggesting that their opinion is ultimate, can kindly shut the f*ck up. You don't work for Rockstar, you don't have psychic powers and you don't have any proof. You're just throwing a spanner in the works. You could well be correct, and there is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that, but no-one here knows for certain. This thread is for discussing hypotheticals and possibilities, not for proclaiming that you are an almighty and all-knowing oracle of Grand Theft Auto. (Unless you're a mod! )

Edited December 2, 2006 by mageezer

[creative madman 1]

your theory is very sound and possible, however in Vice City, Lance would say things like "dont talk down to me Tommy, dont treat me like a little kid, my brother would do that, dont do that" and while he only ever refers to his 'brother' and not older brother, younger brother, Vic, Pete, Tom, Phillip or any name we can assume that it is just the one brother, Vic, as Vic used to treat him like an idiot in VCS

 

i still think the theory that it was Vic and Vic did die is the most probable

Edited December 2, 2006 by creative madman