Quantcast
Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
    1. Welcome to GTAForums!

    1. Red Dead Redemption 2

      1. PC
      2. Gameplay
      3. Missions
      4. Help & Support
    2. Red Dead Online

      1. Gameplay
      2. Find Lobbies & Outlaws
      3. Help & Support
      4. Frontier Pursuits
    1. Crews & Posses

      1. Recruitment
    2. Events

    1. GTA Online

      1. DLC
      2. Find Lobbies & Players
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Vehicles
      5. Content Creator
      6. Help & Support
      7. The Diamond Casino Heist
    2. Grand Theft Auto Series

    3. GTA 6

    4. GTA V

      1. PC
      2. Guides & Strategies
      3. Help & Support
    5. GTA IV

      1. Episodes from Liberty City
      2. Multiplayer
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Help & Support
      5. GTA IV Mods
    6. GTA Chinatown Wars

    7. GTA Vice City Stories

    8. GTA Liberty City Stories

    9. GTA San Andreas

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA SA Mods
    10. GTA Vice City

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA VC Mods
    11. GTA III

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA III Mods
    12. Top Down Games

      1. GTA Advance
      2. GTA 2
      3. GTA
    13. Wiki

      1. Merchandising
    1. GTA Modding

      1. GTA V
      2. GTA IV
      3. GTA III, VC & SA
      4. Tutorials
    2. Mod Showroom

      1. Scripts & Plugins
      2. Maps
      3. Total Conversions
      4. Vehicles
      5. Textures
      6. Characters
      7. Tools
      8. Other
      9. Workshop
    3. Featured Mods

      1. DYOM
      2. OpenIV
      3. GTA: Underground
      4. GTA: Liberty City
      5. GTA: State of Liberty
    1. Red Dead Redemption

    2. Rockstar Games

    1. Off-Topic

      1. General Chat
      2. Gaming
      3. Technology
      4. Programming
      5. Movies & TV
      6. Music
      7. Sports
      8. Vehicles
    2. Expression

      1. Graphics / Visual Arts
      2. GFX Requests & Tutorials
      3. Writers' Discussion
      4. Debates & Discussion
    1. News

    2. Forum Support

    3. Site Suggestions

Quadropheniac90

Charity

Recommended Posts

ATK

 

Sure, they do not want HIV, but that doesn't matter, they're still causing it.

Im not quite understanding who your saying is causing HIV.

 

Yea, you dont have to daonate if you want to, but that dosent mean its a stupid thing to do. So people do it because they just like seeing people who have been suffering happy.

 

The progress isnt going to be instantanous. We cant just give all the money we have to these countries to solve their problems, then bring even bigger ones for us. We dont have to help them but imagine if we didnt. The leaders of these poverty ridden* counties would look at the "rich" countries, and ask why arent you doing anything to help us. And what e\would you say?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jizzyman

Food production has decreased because they DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO PLANT WITH. For now, they're stuck, unless we build irrigation, healthcare, and you know, INFRASTRUCTURE.

 

 

It's a fact that after all these years of charity for Africa it is still the poorest continent on Earth, it has alot of diseases like AIDS because people don't do birth control. You can see that everywhere.

 

Oh really, so the eradication of say, smallpox, was completely funded by private companies? About the birth control, thats one half assed argument, how the hell are you going to use birth control when, a. you have no money, b. there isn't any, anywhere near?

 

It doesn't help if we've been giving for years when we give so little.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quadropheniac90

No, but AIDS is being spred by pregnant mothers who have it as well. Birth control can in this case be not f*cking... But I'm done with this debate man, I suck at debating and there's no way ever I will be able to defend my opinion. dozingoff.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ATK

 

No, but AIDS is being spred by pregnant mothers who have it as well. Birth control can in this case be not f*cking...

Well you speak of it as if pregnant mothers are the most common cause of the spread of AIDS when its not.

 

Lets say that every person in Africa does stop reproduction. Thier "kind" would obviously die out in the future, and seeing as how most people in Africa have AIDS, they would live even shorter lives.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Luke

Africa is still in decline, and the reason why is the loans we gave them - which they'll never be able to pay back. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, that's the trend at the moment.

 

In short, take the UK for example and coffee - we went and told some african countries we now owned them. Then we told them to grow coffee for us, because us Brits like coffee - so they did, every single one of them did. Then there was too much coffee, competition drove prices to rock bottom, we gave them their independence back and now they're f*cked. Corruption within governments has shafted any money from loans, and repayments are making the countries poorer.

 

You might be interested to know that more money comes from Africa to us in the form of loan repayments, than we give to them as charity (about twice as much).

 

How the hell can that be right?

 

The problem you seem to have with charity is that you're selfish, incredibly selfish. Thankfully, not everyone is, and more to the point - there's probably more enjoyment to have out of helping other people and getting gratitude than there is helping yourself.

 

You do suck at debating, because in this case your debate is terrible, you don't seem to properly understand the subject which you're trying to debate. Running off in the middle of the debate because you're 'losing' just shows ignorance, that you're unwilling to change your views even if they're disproved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quadropheniac90

I'll probably get my ass called ignorant quite a few times more for posting what I'm about to post, but hell, it's the internet, and I'll do some more research next time on the subject I have an opinion on.

 

Opinions don't have to be based on facts, people who absolutely feel that not helping humans is sick do not base their opinion on facts, the same way I think animal cruelty is sick, and this can be of course debated, but it's pretty much a feeling issue, I think.

 

Anyways, I'd like to change the subject of the debate to what it was supposed to be as it turned into something I didn't know about. I'm not saying I know philosophy well, but I'll get it next year, it might help me improve skills, of multiple things.

 

All facts about economy aside, some people think we should absolutely help people, like, we must help people, otherwise your not human, or something like that. What I'd like to know from these people or discussed, is why? Why do you feel we must help as many people as we can, and why are we inhuman not helping people? I'm gonna stay out of this one, and you can call my ass ignorant, dumb, inhuman, as many times as you like, I don't give a f*ck, as I don't care about people's opinion about me.

 

I think it's natural to help family and friends, that's what animals do, some animals take care of other animals within their group, they protect their young, monkey's socialize, etc. But I never saw an animal helping a random other animal. So I don't see why it's natural we do. Not that I'm a big libertarian here, but I do think nature is the main thing I base my opinions on. On the other hand I'm a big hypocrit, as I do think animals should be helped and elders should be helped. I wouldn't want to see my grandmother on the street or anything. I can't explain that, it's mostly based on feeling which isn't objective of course.

 

Please discuss. Have a go at me, then, I know you want it. xmas.gif

 

EDIT: Everything is selfish. Doing charity is. You do that to make yourself feel good. You feel good by giving money to the less fortunate. There's no unselfish act you can do. confused.gif

Edited by teun.steenbekkers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Luke

There's nothing wrong with personal gain providing it doesn't have a detrimental effect on others - better yet if it's positive. So yes, charity may make you feel better, but providing it helps others out too then it's a good thing.

 

People work better as teams (well, in theory, not always in practice, but more often than not - you get the idea) and as such if you can help other people who have problems then that makes society as a whole stronger. Which benefits everyone - including yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quadropheniac90

Don't mind me asking, but what is the team here?

 

EDIT: Oops, my bad. Yes, society. Good point.

 

EDIT: I also think gaining wealth and damaging other people with that is wrong. But how is me gaining bad for the Africans or any less fortunate being? Or were you talking in a different context?

Edited by teun.steenbekkers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Luke

 

Don't mind me asking, but what is the team here?

Any team you want, fact is - people work better together, doesn't matter who it is working together, for certain jobs it's just going to make things easy.

 

The world hasn't got to what it is today because of 1 person, it's a collaborative effort involving everyone who has something to contribute that drives things forwards.

 

That's why people need to work together, whether closely, directly, indirectly or without even realising it - if you can help people, then you're making the whole thing, the big picture, be stronger.

 

@edits: Your gain isn't bad, but if everyone were selfish then things would go tits up, nothing would happen at all. It'd be a disaster. The more people are willing to help others, the better, that's not to say people are to give everything they have to charity, but what they can spare.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quadropheniac90

OK, I guess that's true, that has answered the good things of charity for me. But I'm still kind of struggling with the 'it's inhuman not to help'-part. I guess my opinion on charity has changed, I do no longer judge people who do it and it's a good thing, but I also believe not helping doesn't make you an inhuman person, as some people believe. I guess those people kinda base their opinion on feelings, as the case is with my opinion on testing on/hurting animals. I see I was being a very ignorant person before, and indeed many have disproven and because of that changed my opinion on the subject. It's not like I'm heartless. tounge.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Luke

If someone's in the street bleeding, would you help them out? You probably would, it's much the same with charity except for the major difference that you can't see the people and you can't see where your contribution helps out specifically. You don't have the same sense of sympathy for the person with charity and Africa. It's exactly the reason why TV adverts are there for charities, to provoke sympathy for the people who are nowhere near as healthy as the populations of more economically developed countries.

 

I'm not sure whether I'd call it instinctive or not, but helping out people in pain is pretty normal in society - we don't leave people to die in the streets. I don't see why it should be different just because the people are on the other side of the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quadropheniac90

OK, don't flame me for saying this, but a person bleeding on the street I would help, because my help would have a direct influence on him; he'd get hospitalized and if he wasn't wounded too bad, be out after some time. But because I can't see where my money's going, I'm not sure if it even really helps. I'm not that fierce against helping, but I think most of the money does not reach its destination, the destination I would mean for it to have. Either because people donate their money to the wrong organization, e.g. scams (Source: Scambusters) or the money is being used in the wrong way, the building managers took vacations. (No source. sad.gif It was on the news a few months ago) So, I'm quite OK with donating, but as long as I'm insecure about its destination, I think most of it won't reach the people it should. And that's the same as throwing it away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bigs

I like the idea of charities in general.

 

About the Africa issue, I support giving money to african countries because there is no reason why children should have to suffer because of having the unfortunate luck of being born into poverty. In todays time there shouldn't be any reason why people should be suffering and dying at the age of 20. I agree with you that it doesn't seem very progressive now, but it is helping.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Luke
OK, don't flame me for saying this, but a person bleeding on the street I would help, because my help would have a direct influence on him; he'd get hospitalized and if he wasn't wounded too bad, be out after some time. But because I can't see where my money's going, I'm not sure if it even really helps. I'm not that fierce against helping, but I think most of the money does not reach its destination, the destination I would mean for it to have. Either because people donate their money to the wrong organization, e.g. scams (Source: Scambusters) or the money is being used in the wrong way, the building managers took vacations. (No source. sad.gif It was on the news a few months ago) So, I'm quite OK with donating, but as long as I'm insecure about its destination, I think most of it won't reach the people it should. And that's the same as throwing it away.

It's a big issue, and you're right - the money needs to be spent appropriately.

 

Which is why you should look at giving to reputable charities, put the effort in, look at what they actually do. FarmAid for example gives goats to people, doesn't sound like much but because they produce milk and meat, and obviously give birth, they're a great idea.

 

Other charities on the other hand have been stupid enough to donate things such as tractors, which obviously need maintaining and cost a lot to do so. It's called appropriate aid, if you actually contact a charity then they'll be able to tell you (or give you a choice) as to where your money goes exactly (with larger donations, organised events etc).

 

It's a matter of trust ultimately, a little extra effort and you can make sure the money is going to a good cause.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GM Dude

I think we could give a little bit of money towards housing, food, water, and other necessities{yes, that includes transportation}

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mustafa Rusty-Jungle

I read a thing once a while back that said without the famine and short life expectancies such as those in African countries, then the world would quickly become overpopulated and that without it there'd be no chance of having worldwide stability.

Intriguing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Harley

Maybe I should look into it a bit more, but I really don't think my £2 a month is doing anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quadropheniac90

I kinda completely turned my mind around. I was unfortunately influenced by a smart-ass libertarian, who used to be my friend, but who then thought I was to uncivilized to talk to him. Well, f*ck him, I thought. I did some thinking, and I know I would never vote GreenLeft or the Social Party, but now I do believe people need help. But local charity attracts me more than anything, because it really shows off. I guess I will always stay one of the people who will want people to be helped but never taking the initiative of giving to charity. But if people come by the door, I always give them something. I believe it's partially the government's task to make sure the people of a country live well, or at least with a roof above their head.

 

[offtopic]The Social Party here wants people with their own company, ranging from little to big, to pay money to the less fortunate. I do find this wrong, because people who might have worked hard to set this company up, might have to give their money to people who don't do sh*t all day and profite from the government's cash. But on the other hand, people with ridiculously high salaries for doing nothing, give nothing. They definately don't get my respect as much as people who worked for their money do. This party is very close to communism.[/offtopic]

 

@Mustafa Rusty-Jungle: Well, that's kind of logical, no? I mean, how harsh it is to say so, people have to die for other people to be able to live. Or we must invent a way to make other planets inhabitable, but I think that'll take some years to happen. tounge.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tom Toole

If I might begin by listing some reasons as to why people donate: compassion, kindness, empathy, advertising, loneliness, a need to be different, a wish for a better world, tradition

 

And what results is donating money supposed to create? create hope, faith, encourage goodness, develop gratitude, help people, lower death rates, lower crime rates

 

Proof of that charity works? we're still alive, charity has been practiced as part of societies for thousands of years, and societies still exist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
*gta star*

 

First post...

 

OK, I'm gonna get alot of angry replies here, I think, but f*ck that. Why do we give money to Africa?

 

1. We've been giving money for like over 30 years now? Sure, there's some progress in things, but in the speed this is going, I don't see the 'problem' being solved for another 300 years.

 

2. Why would you give money? Why do we need to take care of these people, how are their problems ours? It's bullsh*t.

 

"Oh, but all those people in Africa, we have to help them!"

"Why?"

"It's inhuman not to do so!"

"Why?"

 

I don't see the point in being f*cking social, the only people I care about is me, and my friends and family.

 

And for example donating to organizations which do research for cancer, hepatitis, etc. The only reason I'll give money to those, is because I could get those diseases myself, and I want to get good healthcare and medicines if I do. Saying it's inhuman to not give money because of the other sick people is like someone on the other side of the world dies, and two days later you get angry letters for not going to the funeral. Of course this is a random person I'm talking about here.

 

Why does charity make people feel good, you're wasting your money on something that's probably not worth it. Sure, disease funds, and the tsunami are good ways to spend your money, but in my eyes only because those things can happen to you too. The tsunami damage, material damage, can be repaired with money, Africa can't, it's uncurable. All those people keep f*cking like rabbits too, there's no use.

 

OK, discuss this, and please, no angry posts, it's my opinion, I respect yours, or not, I don't know.  The post seems a little untidy, but I made my point.

 

Obviously some problems are being solved, but the country is suffering so much that these problems will take a long time to overcome. How are their problems ours ? We f*cking caused them, look at it in perspective, these wars make all these people suffer, it isn't just in Africa either. The Tsunami is natural, a natural disaster. If it happened to us, wouldn't you want to see some aid ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tom Toole
All those people keep f*cking like rabbits

 

How are their problems ours ? We f*cking caused them. If it happened to us, wouldn't you want to see some aid ?

(misquoted I know)

 

I did not know that africans f*cked like rabbits.

 

How are their problems ours? in the same way that our problems are theirs. In the same way that we are like them, and they are like us.

 

I think you can never have too much aid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
*gta star*

They are like us, we are like them. We are all on this earth, no one deserves to live like them . What the f*ck are Bush and Tony Blair doing? They are bombing other countries instead of helping those who are dying. mad.gif

 

Can't they see what they are doing ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tom Toole
They are like us, we are like them. We are all on this earth, no one deserves to live like them . What the f*ck are Bush and Tony Blair doing? They are bombing other countries instead of helping those who are dying. mad.gif

 

Can't they see what they are doing ?

We are all dying. We are all helping ourselves to more death.

 

Tony Blair and Bush are being government employees.

 

No one deserves to live. How we ended up living has always been a matter of mystery.

 

Maybe they cannot see what they are doing, selective blindness or simply blindness may in fact be the root cause of the way things are today in our world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
*gta star*
"May in fact be the cause", no-no... it is !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tom Toole

 

"May in fact be the cause", no-no... it is !

truly? I find that a bit hard to believe that you know this for certain, care to make an argument out of it?

 

I suppose you would do so by interpreting certain statements that bush, tony blair has made, and compare them to objective reality as perceived through some sort of corporation/library/newspaper which publishes statistics or data of some kind.

 

[edit changed a question mark to a comma]

Edited by Tom Toole

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
*gta star*

Hang on a minute, this is my opinion, I never said it was a fact. One of the main causes of war today is Religion, yet Tony Blair and Bush are still out in Iraq, why the f*ck don't they pull out ?

 

They've done enough damage, what if they (Iraq) gave us the same treatment, wouldn't we want peace ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tom Toole

i dont see what your opinion has to do with debating and discussing, but even if it is "just" your opinion, you think that way for a reason, correct?

 

why dont they pull out? because that doesnt make sense? because there are americans in Iraq and interests in iraq and stability in iraq is something we all want.

 

If Iraq invaded "us" - you? who are you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
All-Blacks

 

I'm not that fierce against helping, but I think most of the money does not reach its destination, the destination I would mean for it to have. Either because people donate their money to the wrong organization, e.g. scams (Source: Scambusters) or the money is being used in the wrong way, the building managers took vacations.

 

I think thats one of the main reasons most people don't donate. I'm sure all the organisations that deal with the money take at least 50% of the money you donate for themselves, and give the rest to the less fortunate people in Africa.

I would rather donate clothes or something that the organisations cannot take for themselves so i know for a fact that i'm making a difference. Thats why i only donate stuff to poor people in my country, because i know what they are going to do with what i give.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tom Toole
I'm not that fierce against helping, but I think most of the money does not reach its destination, the destination I would mean for it to have. Either because people donate their money to the wrong organization, e.g. scams (Source: Scambusters) or the money is being used in the wrong way, the building managers took vacations.

 

I think thats one of the main reasons most people don't donate. I'm sure all the organisations that deal with the money take at least 50% of the money you donate for themselves, and give the rest to the less fortunate people in Africa.

I would rather donate clothes or something that the organisations cannot take for themselves so i know for a fact that i'm making a difference. Thats why i only donate stuff to poor people in my country, because i know what they are going to do with what i give.

you know what they are gonna do with it?

 

I dont...

 

I know nothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
*gta star*

 

i dont see what your opinion has to do with debating and discussing, but even if it is "just" your opinion, you think that way for a reason, correct?

 

why dont they pull out? because that doesnt make sense? because there are americans in Iraq and interests in iraq and stability in iraq is something we all want.

 

If Iraq invaded "us" - you? who are you?

 

I could ask you the same question, who are you ?

 

We should have never went to Iraq in the first place, we can't gather much interest by bombing innocent people, loads have been killed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • 1 User Currently Viewing
    0 members, 0 Anonymous, 1 Guest

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using GTAForums.com, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.