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leper73

Native American Sports Logos

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leper73

Here in the United States, there are several professional teams who are named after Native Americans (indigenous, pre-colonial peoples). These include Major League Baseball's Cleveland Indians and Atlanta Braves, the National Football League's Washington Redskins and Kansas City Chiefs, and the National Hockey League's Chicago Blackhawks. In addition, numerous high schools and colleges have Indian/Native American nicknames and corresponding logos.

 

In recent years, protests have been raised about these names and logos (the most prominent being the Redskins, the Indians' Chief Wahoo, and the University of Illinois' Fighting Illini), with movements to ban the nicknames and mascots. The public school districts in Los Angeles and Dallas have outlawed the mascots, and the NCAA has forced schools hosting postseason games to cover up any such logos.

 

Personally, I believe these logos and mascots should be allowed. They present the Native Americans as noble, brave, and strong, which are positive attributes. Furthermore, no other ethnic group has raised protests about their cultures used as mascots. For instance, Irish-Americans have never protested the University of Notre Dame's Fightin' Irish name and leprechaun mascot, and people of Scandinavian descent have never objected to the historically inaccurate depiction of the Minnesota Vikings' logo showing a Viking warrior with a horned helmet. So, what about all of you? Should tradition and free speech be respected by allowing these mascots, or is their restriction a legitimate civil rights issue?

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Saggy

In the case of protest of the "Redskins" I don't think that it's so much the log or mascot, but the name itself. "Redskins" is as derogatory of a word to Native Americans as anything else.

 

In the interest of “civil rights”, I believe that teams should have the courtesy to atleast appease to any Native Americans that may be offended. The issues of freedom-of-speech don’t really come into play in these moments, as there is no significant thought or message being conveyed. It’s simply a sports mascot.

 

I don’t really have a definite feeling of this. I can take a guess that the “Redskins” will never change their name because it offends people, and to me that seems wrong. However, it doesn’t seem very wrong to require a sports-team to change any part of its theme if it’s offensive.

 

The reason this is such a tough issue, is because of even though it’s not significant, freedom-of-speech has to come with the right to speak your mind on anything, as long as it’s non-threatening. The question that lingers is whether or not it’s okay to offend people with free speech.

 

I have to wonder why the Redskins wouldn’t change their name if it offended Native Americans. My best guess is that a name-change would probably cost them a lot of money. One could make the argument that they just want to tribute their history, but I doubt the Native Americans want their history spat on by what they find offensive.

 

I can’t say that it should be censored, however. If we were to censor this because it offended one group of people, then why not censor everything else because everyone else is offended? There can’t be an exception to freedom of speech, or it doesn’t work. By law, I think nothing should be done to force these teams to change anything about them.

 

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E.A.B.

I know nothing of football, but let me just say this:

 

What if a football team came out, "The Ragin White Man"?

 

I mean, I understand it's just a football team, but there is something offensive in the name. Anyway, if it isn't enforcing any negative stereotypes and no ones getting hurt, go ahead and leave it at that. To my knowledge, no ne thinks "those native americans sure are crazy" everytime they see that team on the tube. Hell, I doubt anyones actually thinking about Native Americans while watching them.

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Demarest
In the case of protest of the "Redskins" I don't think that it's so much the log or mascot, but the name itself. "Redskins" is as derogatory of a word to Native Americans as anything else.

Derogation lies in intent and application. No word is in herently anything.

 

The Native Americans had a very rich culture. Their peaceful mannerism and primitive tools were simply no match for gunpowder. Simply put, they were outgunned. But they were brave nonetheless and these names honor the courage those people fought with. How ironic that the Sheila Broflovsky's of the world would try to make it appear derogatory just so they have something else to PMS over. It's statements like the quote above that pave the way for such myths to permeate amongst us.

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kgb89

 

I know nothing of football, but let me just say this:

 

What if a football team came out, "The Ragin White Man"?

 

I mean, I understand it's just a football team, but there is something offensive in the name. Anyway, if it isn't enforcing any negative stereotypes and no ones getting hurt, go ahead and leave it at that. To my knowledge, no ne thinks "those native americans sure are crazy" everytime they see that team on the tube. Hell, I doubt anyones actually thinking about Native Americans while watching them.

Actually, the University of Northern Colorado Intramural teams use a white man as their mascot. Funny sh*t; at least they have a sense of humor about it, I mean, who would really give a sh*t about a school mascot if it wasn't some sort of ethnical character?

 

The Fightin' Whities:

 

user posted image

Edited by kgb89

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E.A.B.

 

I know nothing of football, but let me just say this:

 

What if a football team came out, "The Ragin White Man"?

 

I mean, I understand it's just a football team, but there is something offensive in the name. Anyway, if it isn't enforcing any negative stereotypes and no ones getting hurt, go ahead and leave it at that. To my knowledge, no ne thinks "those native americans sure are crazy" everytime they see that team on the tube. Hell, I doubt anyones actually thinking about Native Americans while watching them.

Actually, the University of Northern Colorado Intramural teams use a white man as their mascot. Funny sh*t; at least they have a sense of humor about it, I mean, who would really give a sh*t about a school mascot if it wasn't some sort of ethnical character?

 

The Fightin' Whities:

 

user posted image

Now, THAT'S comedy.

 

I knew I saw that guy somewhere, didn't know it was a team.

 

I stand by what I say, I doubt people even think "f*cking native americans" when they watch that team play. Actually, the team doesn't even do anything to insult native americans or enforce stereotypes, do they (I'm not a football fanatic, or baseball, or any sport for that matter)? It's not like they come out screaming at the top of their lungs on horses and sh*t.

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Tom Toole
In the case of protest of the "Redskins" I don't think that it's so much the log or mascot, but the name itself.  "Redskins" is as derogatory of a word to Native Americans as anything else.

Derogation lies in intent and application. No word is in herently anything.

 

The Native Americans had a very rich culture. Their peaceful mannerism and primitive tools were simply no match for gunpowder. Simply put, they were outgunned. But they were brave nonetheless and these names honor the courage those people fought with. How ironic that the Sheila Broflovsky's of the world would try to make it appear derogatory just so they have something else to PMS over. It's statements like the quote above that pave the way for such myths to permeate amongst us.

allow me to disagree, their bows and warriors were quite up to the task against the primitive muskets and white idiots of those times... that was not their failing.

 

Their failing was that their society envisioned perfection not as having 7 children, not building great cities where more and more and more people lived, was that they died easily with plague.

 

I find lovely your comment on PMS, I find it quite funny the way you use derogatory language towards women. I hope your girlfriend is not on PMS and that you get to get laid with her often.

 

Indeed, no word is inherently anything. Including such words as "Indeed" "no" "word" "is" "inherently" and "anything"

 

I also find lovely how you used "permeate" - did you just learn it in english class?

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Kaj.

Okay, Tom, let me point out a couple of reasons your post is completely f*cking useless. One, this topic is utterly dead, and hasn't seen any activity in 9 months. Two, the person you're tearing into (Demarest), hasn't actively posted since November of last year and doesn't show any signs of coming back.

 

You're f*cking brilliant.

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Tom Toole
Okay, Tom, let me point out a couple of reasons your post is completely f*cking useless. One, this topic is utterly dead, and hasn't seen any activity in 9 months. Two, the person you're tearing into (Demarest), hasn't actively posted since November of last year.

 

You're f*cking brilliant.

thanks, I think I´m brilliant too,

 

in any case, the fact that its 9 months old signifies that this entire forum - Debates and Discussion - is pretty much dead

 

it was on the front page - thats why I responded to it - it is also one of the few on which I havent posted on in D&D

 

And Shouldnt D&D come back to life (was it ever alive?).

 

Oh and thanks for your useless comment, I don´t think it was relevant to the topic though.

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All-Blacks

It really depends on who wants to get rid of the Native American logos. Its different if a Native American wanted to get rid of it than an African/European/Latino/Asian American. For example, if a Native felt sensitive 'bout using their culture and heritage for sports logo, its understanding, but a non-Native wanting to basically throw away the Natives status as Americans is stupid. I'm guessing its non-Natives as it makes sense, a Native not wanting their culture used in an American activity sounds unbelieveable. Wouldn't most people feel proud of their culture being used in a big sport like American Football?

 

I bet this is because of most Americans think that using Natives culture in a commercial sense would bring the wrong message saying that most Americans are Natives, which is pathetic. Back in NZ i've never heard of any problems of a complete caucasion rugby union team doing the Haka, Maoris feel proud of the All Blacks and most non-Maori based teams doing the Haka.

 

Are the Natives actually recognised by the US Government? When I mean recognised, I mean like a special committy of Natives dealing with constroversial things (eg-correct ownership of Native land) or the Native language in the official language of USA?

 

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The-King

Tis a bit of an old topic but I feel I have a valid point to make anyway.

 

My high school's mascot is the Redskins and there have been petitions to get it banned and changed. The main reason Redskins are at the front of people's mind when banning these mascots is because it was used as a derogatory term for indians. But that is still no reason to ban such a mascot. I move if that they ban the Redskins they ban the The Crusaders because it implies genocide because of beliefs which is by far more insulting than redskins which is a simple derogatory term.

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